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Picking the right tank for you (new player advice)

Setting the record straight

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GrimJahk #21 Posted Dec 11 2013 - 20:39

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View PostMami_Tamales, on Dec 11 2013 - 20:23, said:

Please, tell me how new players can "survive and light targets". It'd be a miracle if they even reached above 30% survival rate.

I pointed out one thing I disagree with because people keep on telling LT to "scout", which leads to them YOLOing in and dying. Hell, medium tanks are generally better "scouts" because they can light targets safely from max view range. LTs are just condensed mediums (well, some really don't get treated fairly by MM), and that's it.

You already made a wall of text.

Light tanks have full camo while moving, no other class gets that. They are the "Scout" class of WoT. This is why (most) tier 4 LT see tier 8 battles, Tier 5 see Tier 9 battles, and Tier 6 get Tier 10 … but you already know this..  The problem is that MOST LT players do not know this before getting their shiny new Tier4 LT. This leads to YOLO far faster than the players that already KNOW the role the LT plays.  Which gets back to the point of my thread… KNOW what the role of the tanks you drive are, Know what your strengths are. Drive a tank that plays to those strengths.

LTs have (generally) two strengths, their camo and their speed. That is the definition of a scout.

Stating that all LTs should be played like weak mediums is worse than saying they are all Scouts. Hell, a medium can take a hit or two while flanking.

I admitted that within the statement.

Mami_Momoe #22 Posted Dec 11 2013 - 20:52

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View PostGrimJahk, on Dec 11 2013 - 20:39, said:

Light tanks have full camo while moving, no other class gets that. They are the "Scout" class of WoT. This is why (most) tier 4 LT see tier 8 battles, Tier 5 see Tier 9 battles, and Tier 6 get Tier 10 … but you already know this..  The problem is that MOST LT players do not know this before getting their shiny new Tier4 LT. This leads to YOLO far faster than the players that already KNOW the role the LT plays.  Which gets back to the point of my thread… KNOW what the role of the tanks you drive are, Know what your strengths are. Drive a tank that plays to those strengths.

LTs have (generally) two strengths, their camo and their speed. That is the definition of a scout.

Stating that all LTs should be played like weak mediums is worse than saying they are all Scouts. Hell, a medium can take a hit or two while flanking.

I admitted that within the statement.

Knowing that won't change anything. They'll either sit back and relax (and not die), YOLO from team pressure ("go scout noob", "CHAFFEE DOING NOTHING", and "lights please"), or actually play the tank right.

Yes, because the devs made the guns on the ELC, 59-16, AMX 12t, AMX 13 75, AMX 13 90, WZ-131, WZ-132, M5A1, Luchs, Leopard, Auf Panther, VK 28.01, Chaffee, T21, T71, A-20, Pz 38 nA, M5 Stuart, the new Japanese scouts, MT-25, and T-50 all fire blanks. So much Russian bias because we all know little LT cannot stand up to Russian heavy steel.

So the tier 6 barely unicum TD player knows how to scout/bully tanks with mediums. Okay.

And condensed is a funny word. There are many places and spots you can go to because LT are condensed.

GrimJahk #23 Posted Dec 11 2013 - 22:36

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View PostMami_Tamales, on Dec 11 2013 - 20:52, said:

Knowing that won't change anything. They'll either sit back and relax (and not die), YOLO from team pressure ("go scout noob", "CHAFFEE DOING NOTHING", and "lights please"), or actually play the tank right.
The difference between my position and your position seems to be that: I am assuming that players come here to learn, thus I present information to that end. You assume that all new players are bad and need to put in their place by being told they are bad and how they are doing it all wrong.

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Yes, because the devs made the guns on the ELC, 59-16, AMX 12t, AMX 13 75, AMX 13 90, WZ-131, WZ-132, M5A1, Luchs, Leopard, Auf Panther, VK 28.01, Chaffee, T21, T71, A-20, Pz 38 nA, M5 Stuart, the new Japanese scouts, MT-25, and T-50 all fire blanks. So much Russian bias because we all know little LT cannot stand up to Russian heavy steel.
At no point did I ever say that LTs shoot blanks. At no point did I ever say that LTs shouldn't shoot. What I DID say was that a MAJORITY of LTs receive SCOUT MM, thus should be approached with the scout mentality. You decided I was wrong and seem to take personal offense with this. I did not create the MM system, I did not give LTs Scout MM, I am simply trying to help prepare new players for what they will encounter.

Additionally, you seem to have completely ignored the point that I emphasized: This is written for NEW players, to help understand how to get more out of the game early on by understanding what the ROLES are that the tank classes play. Specifically below tier 5 where they need to understand it. It's pointless to get into ANY advanced debates over how to play those roles until they really need/want to understand them.

Quote

So the tier 6 barely unicum TD player knows how to scout/bully tanks with mediums. Okay.
You really seem to have an issue with me personally… I have no clue why… this is the second time you resort to pointing at my stats to try and deflect from the core argument. In my T71, If I try to be a flanker like any of the other mediums in my match (tier 7 scout in a tier 10 match) I am doomed. I say this from experience. In my 13 90, same thing. I survive and win by being the eyes for the team, taking a few shots of opportunity when I can, and stay alive as long as possible since a scout becomes FAR more valuable as the match stretches out.

Right now, what the new player needs to know, is that WG (generally) treats LTs as scouts, and they get specific MM for it. This is a simple fact.

Mami_Momoe #24 Posted Dec 11 2013 - 23:07

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See, this crap right here is why people have the wrong mentality about the game.

"This tank is a flanker." "This tank is a scout." "This tank is a brawler."

That doesn't acknowledge gameplay at all. That's just putting a worthless label on tanks that can do many things.

Do you know how many times I've killed TDs from peek-a-booming them with mediums? Do you know how often I "snipe" with heavies? (Pretty often actually.) Did I play the tanks wrong in those situations? No. Every tank can do pretty much anything in this game, and, even though some tanks do certain things better, it doesn't mean that a tank has a defined role that it plays in the game.

Yes, people are here to learn, but dumbing down the game doesn't help. All you're saying is that LT = scout, which is as much as saying heavy = CQC. You're giving players the idea that tank classes are strictly defined.

You want to know why I think you're terribly wrong for this? Because back when I was a 44%er, I thought the same way. ~10 months ago, when I was playing the AMX 12t, I thought that I should just find a bush and sit in it (outside of a few battles at tier 7 in a city). The autoloader was just a useless thing that I couldn't pen with. Boy, was I wrong. That tank is terribly uncomfortable because it bleeds speed while turning, but the autoloader is pretty potent.

Either way, this mentality is partially why GD is stupid. All the baddies think that the Waffentraeger auf E-100 is balanced because you can just "flank it" with mediums, "wolfpack" mediums and kill it, or that "arty will kill it". That includes all the pubbies that tell LT to go scout. Obviously, this completely ignores actual gameplay. I flank stuff in my IS-3. I "brawl" with my Centurion Mk. 7/1. I DPS down tanks from range with my (friend's) WZ-132 (when I'm over). I even spot stuff in my IS-3 because I can (though faster mediums usually get to my favorite heavy tank spotting areas, lol). Labeling LT as scouts just makes pubbies think that they can light enemies, die, and call it a day because they contributed.

WG also considers Erlenberg a map that's not worth reworking at the moment, TDs to be OK (and that the WTE is underpowered and deserved a buff before release), and WR the only real indicator of skill. They're obviously right.

Sheesh, you made me type all that just because you're too stubborn to remove one word.

GrimJahk #25 Posted Dec 11 2013 - 23:29

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View PostMami_Tamales, on Dec 11 2013 - 23:07, said:

See, this crap right here is why people have the wrong mentality about the game.

"This tank is a flanker." "This tank is a scout." "This tank is a brawler."

That doesn't acknowledge gameplay at all. That's just putting a worthless label on tanks that can do many things.

Do you know how many times I've killed TDs from peek-a-booming them with mediums? Do you know how often I "snipe" with heavies? (Pretty often actually.) Did I play the tanks wrong in those situations? No. Every tank can do pretty much anything in this game, and, even though some tanks do certain things better, it doesn't mean that a tank has a defined role that it plays in the game.

Yes, people are here to learn, but dumbing down the game doesn't help. All you're saying is that LT = scout, which is as much as saying heavy = CQC. You're giving players the idea that tank classes are strictly defined.

You want to know why I think you're terribly wrong for this? Because back when I was a 44%er, I thought the same way. ~10 months ago, when I was playing the AMX 12t, I thought that I should just find a bush and sit in it (outside of a few battles at tier 7 in a city). The autoloader was just a useless thing that I couldn't pen with. Boy, was I wrong. That tank is terribly uncomfortable because it bleeds speed while turning, but the autoloader is pretty potent.

Either way, this mentality is partially why GD is stupid. All the baddies think that the Waffentraeger auf E-100 is balanced because you can just "flank it" with mediums, "wolfpack" mediums and kill it, or that "arty will kill it". That includes all the pubbies that tell LT to go scout. Obviously, this completely ignores actual gameplay. I flank stuff in my IS-3. I "brawl" with my Centurion Mk. 7/1. I DPS down tanks from range with my (friend's) WZ-132 (when I'm over). I even spot stuff in my IS-3 because I can (though faster mediums usually get to my favorite heavy tank spotting areas, lol). Labeling LT as scouts just makes pubbies think that they can light enemies, die, and call it a day because they contributed.

WG also considers Erlenberg a map that's not worth reworking at the moment, TDs to be OK (and that the WTE is underpowered and deserved a buff before release), and WR the only real indicator of skill. They're obviously right.

Sheesh, you made me type all that just because you're too stubborn to remove one word.

We actually agree on most of your points. ANY tank can be played a multiple of ways. Some are more flexible than others. ZERO disagreement there. Each tank has it's own strengths and weaknesses. That is the point of the entire thread.

In no way am I denying that there are ass-hats out there that know jack about the game yet bark orders. IE: "Hey LT! GO scout!" to an AMX 40… I can see that this is a personal pet-peeve of yours. I'm not saying in any way that Mediums can't scout, or that some of them are better scouts. At tier 10, almost every Medium has better view range than the Lights in the match. Does not change the fact that the tier 7 LT has to do SOMETHING to help win...

I can't stop people from being stupid. This thread (or any other) will not change how players will get treated in game.

No I will not remove "scout". Whether we agree with what WG has put in place or not, the fact is that MOST LT get "Scout" MM, and face tanks that are +4 tiers. I can't change that, you can't change that. BUT, we can warn and educate the new players to at least be aware of it. Going from a Tier 3 LT to a Tier 4 LT is a huge shock if you are not prepared. As players get into higher tier LTs, either they "Get it" or they are just rushing up the tiers thinking it will get better all on it's own.

Mami_Momoe #26 Posted Dec 11 2013 - 23:31

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The whole entire point of this forum is to stop people from being stupid.

But have fun scouting for me in that T71. You better keep those targets lit :^)

GrimJahk #27 Posted Dec 11 2013 - 23:35

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View PostMami_Tamales, on Dec 11 2013 - 23:31, said:

The whole entire point of this forum is to stop people from being stupid.

But have fun scouting for me in that T71. You better keep those targets lit :^)
I think the point of this form is to help people avoid being stupid. To me there is a significant difference. Ass-hats don't come here too often… mostly just the players that want to learn.

Will do my best… Damn I hate the T71… 13 90 is so much better.

Dunfalach #28 Posted Feb 28 2014 - 19:41

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View Postjonny_ringo, on Dec 11 2013 - 13:20, said:

awesome post. too bad the majority of the players who need to see this, are never on the forums

 

View PostSturm_Teufel, on Dec 11 2013 - 14:38, said:

Excellent post, wish I had read this as well as Lert's guides when I first started.

 

I've started mentioning Lert's guides on the guide section of the forum at match start in most of my battles. Which, if they actually follow it, will lead them to GrimJahk and others. I've had perhaps 4 positive comments this week on it, and one negative, but the negative was from a guy who spent the entire rest of the match mouthing off to everyone on both teams nonstop in chat, so I discount that one.

 

It may only add a handful of forum visitors, but that's a handful that may not have otherwise found guides like these for improving.



Zapp__Brannigan #29 Posted Mar 04 2014 - 23:55

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View PostMami_Tamales, on Dec 11 2013 - 23:07, said:

See, this crap right here is why people have the wrong mentality about the game.
"This tank is a flanker." "This tank is a scout." "This tank is a brawler."
That doesn't acknowledge gameplay at all. That's just putting a worthless label on tanks that can do many things.
Do you know how many times I've killed TDs from peek-a-booming them with mediums? Do you know how often I "snipe" with heavies? (Pretty often actually.) Did I play the tanks wrong in those situations? No. Every tank can do pretty much anything in this game, and, even though some tanks do certain things better, it doesn't mean that a tank has a defined role that it plays in the game.
Yes, people are here to learn, but dumbing down the game doesn't help. All you're saying is that LT = scout, which is as much as saying heavy = CQC. You're giving players the idea that tank classes are strictly defined.
You want to know why I think you're terribly wrong for this? Because back when I was a 44%er, I thought the same way. ~10 months ago, when I was playing the AMX 12t, I thought that I should just find a bush and sit in it (outside of a few battles at tier 7 in a city). The autoloader was just a useless thing that I couldn't pen with. Boy, was I wrong. That tank is terribly uncomfortable because it bleeds speed while turning, but the autoloader is pretty potent.
Either way, this mentality is partially why GD is stupid. All the baddies think that the Waffentraeger auf E-100 is balanced because you can just "flank it" with mediums, "wolfpack" mediums and kill it, or that "arty will kill it". That includes all the pubbies that tell LT to go scout. Obviously, this completely ignores actual gameplay. I flank stuff in my IS-3. I "brawl" with my Centurion Mk. 7/1. I DPS down tanks from range with my (friend's) WZ-132 (when I'm over). I even spot stuff in my IS-3 because I can (though faster mediums usually get to my favorite heavy tank spotting areas, lol). Labeling LT as scouts just makes pubbies think that they can light enemies, die, and call it a day because they contributed.
WG also considers Erlenberg a map that's not worth reworking at the moment, TDs to be OK (and that the WTE is underpowered and deserved a buff before release), and WR the only real indicator of skill. They're obviously right.
Sheesh, you made me type all that just because you're too stubborn to remove one word.

 

 

You take that t4 light PzNa and go brawl with a Tiger II, let me know how that goes....Any tank pigeoned into the "scout" MM may as well have its gun removed for all intents and purposes because a) 99.9999% of the time you will never pen the tanks you are put against and b) Even if by some miracle you do pen and do a miniscule amount of damage, you have about a 2 count until your tank is smoking pile of ash



660driver #30 Posted Mar 05 2014 - 00:31

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View Postiron_crosstx, on Dec 11 2013 - 20:08, said:

one of the best games i ever played i was in my pz38t on malinovka. i sat in the bush (some of you probly know wich bush) and inteded to do nothing but passive scout, but ill be damed if people dident keep driving out where i had shots it would have been rude not to take. ended up with scout, patrol duty, top gun, and 8 kills. it was awsome. and i never moved till almost the end of the game.

 

 

was that u in that jingles video? that was awesome! i tried that with my cruiser 3 and my t18 and died both times. guess i will try again when i get better equiptment and crew training!



Dunfalach #31 Posted Mar 05 2014 - 03:09

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View Post660driver, on Mar 04 2014 - 18:31, said:

 

 

was that u in that jingles video? that was awesome! i tried that with my cruiser 3 and my t18 and died both times. guess i will try again when i get better equiptment and crew training!

 

Make sure you sit far enough from the bush that it's NOT transparent to you. If you're close enough that the bush looks transparent, you lose its camo cover whenever you fire.







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