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Top Five Tanks of WW2


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BabyOlifant #81 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 21:57

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Today, children, I want to talk about a tank that is bad. It is a German tank. It has a 7.5cm gun. It has boxy, welded armor. It has a front-drive transmission.

It's the Panzer IV.

 

Yes, mein kinder, the Panzer IV is badtank. I want to all to know this, deep in your heart of hearts. Say to yourself, "Panzer IV is badtank, I will not like it. I will only like comfortable Shermans or efficient T-34s."

Recite this litany with me:

The Panzer IV has an inefficient, poorly optimized gun.

The Panzer IV has a weak, finicky engine.

The Panzer IV has a terribly obsolete suspension.

The Panzer IV has an outdated, obsolete transmission.

The Panzer IV has inferior engine-driven turret rotation.

The Panzer IV has cramped crew accomodations.

I will not like it, this badtank of Deutschland. No, I will not.



rossmum #82 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:02

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1. T-34

2. M4 Sherman

3. PzIII

4. IS-2

5. PzIV I guess.

 

All tanks which a) worked, and b) weren't laughably terrible designs. Big cats need not apply.



OttoT #83 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:03

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View PostEnsignExpendable, on Jan 23 2014 - 11:48, said:

 

Your statement is also generalizing it to all IS series tanks when the guy was talking about IS-3s specifically. 

Yes I am and yes he did.  He said "IS-3 what tank could stand up to it."  I listed 3 



lostwingman #84 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:07

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View Postrossmum, on Jan 23 2014 - 15:02, said:

1. T-34

2. M4 Sherman

3. PzIII

4. IS-2

5. PzIV I guess.

 

All tanks which a) worked, and b) weren't laughably terrible designs. Big cats need not apply.


Haha that was pretty much how I felt about the PzIV (almost tagged something similar to the end). It's why I have an honorable mentions list.

 

View PostBabyOlifant, on Jan 23 2014 - 14:57, said:

Today, children, I want to talk about a tank that is bad. It is a German tank. It has a 7.5cm gun. It has boxy, welded armor. It has a front-drive transmission.

It's the Panzer IV.

Eh, it wasn't that bad. It's just that it's a bit overrated as a 'sensible war winner' because it stands next to the big cats.

 

View PostOttoT, on Jan 23 2014 - 15:03, said:

Yes I am and yes he did.  He said "IS-3 what tank could stand up to it."  I listed 3 


KT wasn't going to take an IS-3 out frontally. Not at combat ranges.


Edited by lostwingman, Jan 23 2014 - 22:08.


BabyOlifant #85 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:16

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really? tell me one significant way in that the panzer iv was qualitatively better than its stablemates.

 

is bade i say



xthetenth #86 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:19

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It was at least as good at making sure the germans had a worse tank than the allies.

DudleyDemon #87 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:20

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If the JS-3 is legal in this list then I would like top put in a plug for the Centurion. It didn't see action in WW2 but it was in production before Japan surrendered, so technically ...

 

The Centurion was a financial success, being used by almost 20 countries, and saw action in many post-war battles. One Australian Centurion was nuked, repaired, and later saw action in Vietnam.



CapturedJoe #88 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:25

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FT 17.

Served faithfully in both world wars.



lostwingman #89 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:25

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View PostBabyOlifant, on Jan 23 2014 - 15:16, said:

really? tell me one significant way in that the panzer iv was qualitatively better than its stablemates.

 

is bade i say


It's stablemates were the T-34 and M4, hard to top those. But like I said, it wasn't too far behind them. Mostly lacking in suspension and needing a redesign out of the 30s for its hull. Bad is the Panther or something. Panzer IV could at least do the job of a medium tank and had some longevity to it with straight forward modifications.

 

View PostDudleyDemon, on Jan 23 2014 - 15:20, said:

If the JS-3 is legal in this list then I would like top put in a plug for the Centurion. It didn't see action in WW2 but it was in production before Japan surrendered, so technically ...

 

The Centurion was a financial success, being used by almost 20 countries, and saw action in many post-war battles. One Australian Centurion was nuked, repaired, and later saw action in Vietnam.


It isn't. If it didn't carry significant weight during the war it isn't one of the top tanks of the war now is it?

 

View PostCapturedJoe, on Jan 23 2014 - 15:25, said:

FT 17.

Served faithfully in both world wars.


This is for WW2 and by that time it was basically a policing weapon.


Edited by lostwingman, Jan 23 2014 - 22:26.


OttoT #90 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:32

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KT wasn't going to take an IS-3 out frontally. Not at combat ranges...

 

Combat ranges are different for both tanks.   The L/71 the KT mounted was more then capable even against the IS-3's sloped armor

 



lostwingman #91 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:41

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View PostOttoT, on Jan 23 2014 - 15:32, said:

KT wasn't going to take an IS-3 out frontally. Not at combat ranges...

 

Combat ranges are different for both tanks.   The L/71 the KT mounted was more then capable even against the IS-3's sloped armor

 


IS-3 was invulnerable up to 100 300m.

Sorry, correction.

 

To clarify. The upper plates were resistant until 100m and the lower plate until 300m.


Edited by lostwingman, Jan 23 2014 - 22:44.


yota151 #92 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:41

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View PostDudleyDemon, on Jan 23 2014 - 16:20, said:

If the JS-3 is legal in this list then I would like top put in a plug for the Centurion. It didn't see action in WW2 but it was in production before Japan surrendered, so technically ...

 

The Centurion was a financial success, being used by almost 20 countries, and saw action in many post-war battles. One Australian Centurion was nuked, repaired, and later saw action in Vietnam.


There is film footage and pictures of the first IS-3s engaging in combat in and around Berlin in the final few days of the war. Keep in mind I am talking about the fist IS-3s not the later updated version. Its just like the Pershing everyone says it didn't fight and yet there are videos of them fighting. How do you post pictures on the forum so I can settle this for good.


Edited by yota151, Jan 23 2014 - 22:43.


Hurk #93 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:48

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funny you should mention the pershing, since it can kill an IS-3. 

OttoT #94 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:52

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View Postlostwingman, on Jan 23 2014 - 12:41, said:


IS-3 was invulnerable up to 100 300m.

Sorry, correction.

 

To clarify. The upper plates were resistant until 100m and the lower plate until 300m.


 At  2000m +  the range the KT is going to start firing the shell will hit and slope of the armor will be nullified and you will have your dead IS-3



yota151 #95 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:53

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View PostHurk, on Jan 23 2014 - 16:48, said:

funny you should mention the pershing, since it can kill an IS-3. 


I am done arguing and we will never know because they never fought each other but I have a feeling that one pershing against one IS-3 would not stand a chance.



yota151 #96 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:54

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View PostOttoT, on Jan 23 2014 - 16:52, said:


 At  2000m +  the range the KT is going to start firing the shell will hit and slope of the armor will be nullified and you will have your dead IS-3


But by that range the KT's shell will have lost a lot of penning power.



OttoT #97 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:54

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View Postyota151, on Jan 23 2014 - 12:53, said:


I am done arguing and we will never know because they never fought each other but I have a feeling that one pershing against one IS-3 would not stand a chance.


They did but it was Egypt VS Israel.



yota151 #98 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:55

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View PostOttoT, on Jan 23 2014 - 16:54, said:


They did but it was Egypt VS Israel.


They were both upgunned versions of each other. I am talking about the WW2 version of each tank. Also most IS-3 lost during that war were do to air strikes.


Edited by yota151, Jan 23 2014 - 22:56.


OttoT #99 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:56

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View Postyota151, on Jan 23 2014 - 12:54, said:


But by that range the KT's shell will have lost a lot of penning power.


Its a gun meant to loft a shell 30000 feet into the air.  Not as much as you might think



Toxn #100 Posted Jan 23 2014 - 22:57

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Top 5 tanks of WWII = I posit that WWII was merely the culmination of WWI.

 

Therefore, top 5 tanks of WWII:

 

5) Place anything you want that was produced in more than 5000 units here (T-34, M4, whatever).

 

4) Mark IV. Improved Mark 1. Arguably the first mass-produced tank ever (over 1000 units produced). Gave birth to all the stuff tanks are known for today (infantry support, bunker bashing, tank-on-tank combat)

 

3) Medium mk A Whippet. First tank to achieve deep penetrations of enemy positions and have a strategic (rather than tactical) effect.

 

2) Renault FT. First tank to have the standard layout. Possibly the most influential tank ever.

 

1) Mark I. First tank to see combat.






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