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Five worst tanks of WW2


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schaghticokekid #81 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:18

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View PostXplato, on Jan 28 2014 - 01:17, said:

In no particular order.They are all worthless crap tank designs.

1:King tiger

2:Tiger

3:Panther

4: Maus

5: M3 Lee

Ah, yes, the M3 Lee; The only tank that could stand between Rommel and the Suez Canal. A real crapper!



Priory_of_Sion #82 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:20

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View Postschaghticokekid, on Jan 28 2014 - 01:16, said:

Apples to oranges would be comparing a tank to a car. I'm not. I believe the word is "metaphor".

It was posted as an analogy, and a bad one at that. At least that is how I read your post. 



xthetenth #83 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:20

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View Postschaghticokekid, on Jan 28 2014 - 01:15, said:

So.... you deny that you made and ad hominem attack, then proceed to explain your ad hominem attack... Sometimes I forget that I'm on an internet forum. Good to see we're at least sort of on the same page here.

 

So just to make it clear you're making an argument from fallacy and you don't know what an ad hominem is.

 

You ignore facts and continue to parrot the lazy content of the history channel therefore you are ignorant is actually entirely backwards from an ad hominem attack.

 

If I said you are ignorant therefore you are wrong this is an ad hominem. Using personal attacks in your chain of reasoning is the fallacy because it's faulty logic (even if you are ignorant that doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong)

 

If I said you are continually wrong and make no effort to provide any argument beyond parroting what you just said and therefore you are ignorant that doesn't involve the personal attack in the chain of reasoning.



Xplato #84 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:20

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View Postschaghticokekid, on Jan 28 2014 - 01:18, said:

Ah, yes, the M3 Lee; The only tank that could stand between Rommel and the Suez Canal. A real crapper!

I couldn't really think of anything else..... The M3 lee was a bad tank in design. not that it was the tanks faults just the shortsightedness of the United states tank doctrine.



Priory_of_Sion #85 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:21

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View Postschaghticokekid, on Jan 28 2014 - 01:18, said:

Ah, yes, the M3 Lee; The only tank that could stand between Rommel and the Suez Canal. A real crapper!

Does combat record and strategic value matter now?



Jeeps_Guns_Tanks #86 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:22

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View Postschaghticokekid, on Jan 27 2014 - 22:15, said:

So.... you deny that you made and ad hominem attack, then proceed to explain your ad hominem attack... Sometimes I forget that I'm on an internet forum. Good to see we're at least sort of on the same page here.

 

I'm not saying you’re wrong because your ignorant or stupid, I'm not insulting you. It's clear from your posts you lack basic understanding about WWII tanks and what makes a good tank. That makes you ignorant on the subject. 

 

I've been trying to help you out. The stuff you’re posting is wrong. It's roots are in one terrible book and the History channel. I know it's hard for young men to admit they were wrong, but it's better than going on and on about something you know nothing about. 

 

You should really get over letting supposed insults or real ones bother you, it is the internet after all, if you let someone snarky response to your ignorant post bother you, you’re going to be mad and unpleasant all the time…

 

Hmmmm

 



Mechanize #87 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:23

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View Postschaghticokekid, on Jan 27 2014 - 22:34, said:

Aw, that's cute. Some people just can't accept that we won with a quantity over quality strategy. It saw limited service in Africa were it performed fairly well against the by then obsolete Panzer 3. In Italy it faced down Italian tanks that were easy kills for the British army in 1941. In Western Europe they did a fine job of being built faster than they could explode

Remember, we're looking at tanks, not manufacturing industry here. Even then the Soviets still win that fight. 


Actually we won with superior strategy and tactical doctrine and wars don't come down to tank duels on open fields, who would've thought?

 

View Postschaghticokekid, on Jan 27 2014 - 22:55, said:

Joseph Stalin once said "Quantity has a quality all it's own"

It actually has many. One great one is being you can afford to throw tanks at your enemy. We're not talking about which tanks won the war. This is about which vehicle sucked on an individual level. One-V-One here.

Another issue here may be my lack of clarity. This is the M4. Not the M4A1, 76mm variants, or upgrades. The M4 that was first introduced to the war in 1942 and left in the beginning of 44. The reason I specified that it wasn't the E8 or Firefly was that they stood out as exceptional examples of engineering.

 

 

And it turns out the Panther and Tiger series were bad on an individual level for a multitude of reasons, who would've thought!? (again, not you)

 

P.S. the germans also used Gasoline engines genius, that actually had a HIGHER chance burn then the Shermans due to their use of lower octane fuel, but, please, keep posting as if you know what you're talking about in the slightest.

 

View Postbobicous, on Jan 27 2014 - 22:55, said:

Look you guys want to bag on German stuff like it was useless to make you feel better about this or that country but the fact is when the Tiger 1 rolled out it rick rolled everything it faced and it wasn't even close!  I find it funny that you guys want to pull stuff from late 45 (rpgs) when the first people facing tigers had zero reasonable way to deal with them short of send WAVES of tanks and hoping for a lucky side/rear shot. Of course nothing Soviet or American every had any growing pains RIGHT!

 

Also if all German armor was so horribad why did the Germans come within days of beating the 2 biggest superpowers in the world.  Funny how you guys act the the 75l70 was a terrible gun when for AT is was one of the best of the war. 

 

Ypu're delusional to the point of not even worth talking to if you actually think Germany was anywhere close to actually winning the war.

 

Actually, the fact you literally use "rick rolled" does, but oh well.



Krieger_07b #88 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:23

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View Postschaghticokekid, on Jan 28 2014 - 00:15, said:

So.... you deny that you made and ad hominem attack, then proceed to explain your ad hominem attack... Sometimes I forget that I'm on an internet forum. Good to see we're at least sort of on the same page here.

 

You seem to be confused. Ad hominem is when a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Insults are not ad hominem. Jeeps' post was not ad hominem. Words have meanings, you know.

 

But to be on topic:

 

5. T-35

4. Vickers 6 Ton

3. Maus

2. Valiant

1. Elephant



xthetenth #89 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:24

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View PostXplato, on Jan 28 2014 - 01:20, said:

View Postschaghticokekid, on Jan 28 2014 - 01:18, said:

Ah, yes, the M3 Lee; The only tank that could stand between Rommel and the Suez Canal. A real crapper!

I couldn't really think of anything else..... The M3 lee was a bad tank in design. not that it was the tanks faults just the shortsightedness of the United states tank doctrine.

 

Nope. It's the pace of turret design. The only turrets the US had were incapable of fitting anything in the 75mm range with the pen that implies while maintaining a good HE shell (combined arms team, being able to kill infantry and AT guns is absolutely vital, see British failures with tanks armed with only AP). So they mounted a turret for all around coverage and put the 75mm in the hull. It was the only numerous source of non-howitzer 75mm guns in Africa.



Xplato #90 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:25

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View Postxthetenth, on Jan 28 2014 - 01:24, said:

 

Nope. It's the pace of turret design. The only turrets the US had were incapable of fitting anything in the 75mm range with the pen that implies while maintaining a good HE shell (combined arms team, being able to kill infantry and AT guns is absolutely vital, see British failures with tanks armed with only AP). So they mounted a turret for all around coverage and put the 75mm in the hull. It was the only numerous source of non-howitzer 75mm guns in Africa.

ahh my bad. 



schaghticokekid #91 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:27

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View Postxthetenth, on Jan 28 2014 - 01:20, said:

 

So just to make it clear you're making an argument from fallacy and you don't know what an ad hominem is.

 

You ignore facts and continue to parrot the lazy content of the history channel therefore you are ignorant is actually entirely backwards from an ad hominem attack.

 

If I said you are ignorant therefore you are wrong this is an ad hominem. Using personal attacks in your chain of reasoning is the fallacy because it's faulty logic (even if you are ignorant that doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong)

 

If I said you are continually wrong and make no effort to provide any argument beyond parroting what you just said and therefore you are ignorant that doesn't involve the personal attack in the chain of reasoning.

It's cute that you come to your clan-mate's rescue. 

On the other hand, quoting me as saying "I post nonsense cause all the cool kids do it!" Is pretty low.

 

Now then, this has truly spiraled into a conversation more about you being mad at my opinion than actual tanks. I respect the fact that you apparently think I'm an idiot. I also acknowledge the fact that I know a hell of a lot more about the M4 Sherman than I know about you (or want to know about you), as well as you know about me. You see the issue here?

 

I'd also like to give a big ol' "****" to OP for starting a thread that was clearly bound for this from the start.

 

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BabyOlifant #92 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:28

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dude pull the stick out of your ass it might get infected if you just leave it in there

Mechanize #93 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:30

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View Postschaghticokekid, on Jan 27 2014 - 23:27, said:

It's cute that you come to your clan-mate's rescue. 

On the other hand, quoting me as saying "I post nonsense cause all the cool kids do it!" Is pretty low.

 

Now then, this has truly spiraled into a conversation more about you being mad at my opinion than actual tanks. I respect the fact that you apparently think I'm an idiot. I also acknowledge the fact that I know a hell of a lot more about the M4 Sherman than I know about you (or want to know about you), as well as you know about me. You see the issue here?

 

I'd also like to give a big ol' "****" to OP for starting a thread that was clearly bound for this from the start.

 

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So, judging by your knowledge of the M4 Sherman, your knowledge of him must be really far in the negatives.



schaghticokekid #94 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:30

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View PostBabyOlifant, on Jan 28 2014 - 01:28, said:

dude pull the stick out of your ass it might get infected if you just leave it in there

I'm glad to see it's just an act :great:



Cirran #95 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:31

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Edited



schaghticokekid #96 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:31

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View PostMechanize, on Jan 28 2014 - 01:30, said:

 

So, judging by your knowledge of the M4 Sherman, your knowledge of him must be really far in the negatives.

----The point----->

 

 

 

 

[Your Head]



xthetenth #97 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:32

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View Postschaghticokekid, on Jan 28 2014 - 01:27, said:

It's cute that you come to your clan-mate's rescue. 

On the other hand, quoting me as saying "I post nonsense cause all the cool kids do it!" Is pretty low.

 

Now then, this has truly spiraled into a conversation more about you being mad at my opinion than actual tanks. I respect the fact that you apparently think I'm an idiot. I also acknowledge the fact that I know a hell of a lot more about the M4 Sherman than I know about you (or want to know about you), as well as you know about me. You see the issue here?

 

I'd also like to give a big ol' "****" to OP for starting a thread that was clearly bound for this from the start.

 

[content moderated.profanity]
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We respond to your responses. If you had decided to respond to arguments rather than tone, this would be a further elaboration on our position and evidence and why it indicates that yours are faulty. Instead you repeated the arguments we'd already countered and made an argument from fallacy. Hence the impromptu logic lesson. (I don't trust Jeeps to be thorough on such topics, and it'll be vitally important if you take history classes at a decent level to understand how good reasoning and evidential standards work)



Jeeps_Guns_Tanks #98 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:33

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View Postschaghticokekid, on Jan 27 2014 - 22:27, said:

It's cute that you come to your clan-mate's rescue. 

On the other hand, quoting me as saying "I post nonsense cause all the cool kids do it!" Is pretty low.

 

Now then, this has truly spiraled into a conversation more about you being mad at my opinion than actual tanks. I respect the fact that you apparently think I'm an idiot. I also acknowledge the fact that I know a hell of a lot more about the M4 Sherman than I know about you (or want to know about you), as well as you know about me. You see the issue here?

 

I'd also like to give a big ol' "****" to OP for starting a thread that was clearly bound for this from the start.

 

[content moderated.profanity]
~Moderation Team

 

So much butthurt, so much anger, and yet, nothing learned about the Sherman. 

 

 

I think this one may be hopeless boys, for some ignorance is bliss I guess. 

 

 



Mechanize #99 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:34

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View Postschaghticokekid, on Jan 27 2014 - 23:31, said:

----The point----->

 

 

 

 

[Your Head]

 

 

O <-- Cognitive Function                                                                                                                                                                                   ---------> X You



xthetenth #100 Posted Jan 28 2014 - 07:34

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View PostJeeps_Guns_Tanks, on Jan 28 2014 - 01:33, said:

 

So much butthurt, so much anger, and yet, nothing learned about the Sherman. 

 

 

I think this one may be hopeless boys, for some ignorance is bliss I guess. 

 

 

 

Hopefully he gets past high school debate team argument as competitive fallacy spotting, it's a really bad way to learn.

 

I'm being rude, I'll take a second to restate the argument so we can get it back on track.


Edited by xthetenth, Jan 28 2014 - 07:35.





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