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Top 5 German Tanks of World War II

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FISSION_CURES_ANIME #1 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 22:36

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There is already a thread about the top five tanks of World War II overall. However, during the course of the war, most nations fielded many different tank designs. While not all of these are good enough to be considered the best, many of them still made significant contributions to their nation's war efforts. I'd like to turn the spotlight toward German tanks for a moment, and examine which of them were truly the best.

 

Remember, when making your choices, not to merely consider the size of the gun or the thickness of armor. Rather, look at the tank as a piece of a larger warfighting machine.

 

1. Panzer III

Served admirably for much of the war. Featured a three man turret, and overall excellent design. One of its only flaws was its relatively small turret ring (relative to later tanks), but despite this, it was still a very good design.

 

2. StuG III

The most numerous German armored fighting vehicle for a reason. Highly effective, and fairly economical to produce. Did well in both the infantry-support and anti-tank roles throughout the war.

 

3. Panzer I

 

The Panzer I was not intended to engage in combat. Its sole purpose in life was to give German industry experience with tank production, and to serve as a training device. At that, it succeeded.

 

4. Nashorn

Almost certainly overgunned, but a fairly good interim solution, and performed well in open terrain.

 

5. Panzer IV

 

Had some issues, but overall, a fairly acceptable design. Did have the advantage of being able to accept larger guns, such as the 75/L48.

 


Edited by LostCosmonaut, Jan 30 2014 - 22:36.


Ogopogo #2 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 22:40

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I'd almost say that the 38t should fit in there instead of the panzer 1. But relatively good list nonetheless.

Noggmoritz #3 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 22:41

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1. Tiger II

Because it had a 10:1 KDR and most losses were lack of fuel

 

2. Tiger I

Because it had a 10:1 KDR and most losses were lack of fuel

 

3. Ferdinand/Elephant

Because it had a 10:1 KDR and most losses were lack of fuel

 

4. StuG III

Because it had a 3:1 KDR and was cheap

 

5. Sturmtiger

Because in one engagement it blew up 3x Shermans with a single shell

 

 

Honorable Mention:

 

Pz Div Muncheburg Panther Ausf G's with Sperber IR @ Seelow Heights bringing down the hurt on Zhukov's Guard's tank battalions


Edited by Lord_Commander, Jan 30 2014 - 22:44.


Ogopogo #4 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 22:42

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View PostLord_Commander, on Jan 30 2014 - 22:41, said:

Things

 

 


Edited by Ogopogo, Jan 30 2014 - 22:42.


WoodLeague #5 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 22:42

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The Tiger 1 should be number 1.

 

It was totally invincible to anything even bombers, had a gun that never ever missed or bounced, and it took approximately four zillion Shermans just to kill one. My personal opinions say so.



Lert #6 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 22:42

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1) StuG III: legendary support and defensive vehicle.

2) PzKpfw IV: reliable, adaptable, a pure workhorse viable throughout the war.

3) PzKpfw V Panther: flawed and unreliable design, but terrifying when it worked.

4) PzKpfw III: quick, agile, available in good numbers, but way outclassed later on in the war.

5) PzKpfw VIb Konigstiger: everything Panther was, but more so.



Dominatus #7 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 22:44

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View PostOgopogo, on Jan 30 2014 - 16:40, said:

I'd almost say that the 38t should fit in there instead of the panzer 1. But relatively good list nonetheless.

38t was largely unmodified by the Germans however. You might as well say a Panzer T-34® was the best German tank.

 

As for the list, I think it really depends on whether or not you're talking about engineering wise or performance wise in regards tot he Panzer III and IV.

And I'd definitely put the StuG on top.


Edited by Dominatus, Jan 30 2014 - 22:48.


LumpyWattz21 #8 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 22:46

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Do captured T34s, Shermans, KVs, ect count as german tanks? They were probably some of the best tanks the Germans used.

cashdash #9 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 22:48

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i would have to say

 

1. Panzer III

 

in it's various models it served throughout most of the war as a solid and dependable multipurpose tank.

 

2. StuG III

 

effective, cheap, dependable, and multipurpose, the 4 goals every military vehicle needs to meet. 

 

3. Pz 38T.

 

still considered a German tank despite being designed by the Czechs, the Pz 38T was one of the best tanks in its day, it may not have been as well armed or armored as the Panzer III, but it was still an excellent tank well suited to lighter combat and scouting roles.

 

4. Hetzer.

 

this assault gun may have showed up late to the party, but i was still an excellent vehicle well suited to breaking through enemy fortifications.

 

5. Marder II.

 

a simple yet effective tank destroyer, it shows how effective even outdated equipment like Panzer II chassis can be when used properly.


Edited by cashdash, Jan 30 2014 - 22:49.


FISSION_CURES_ANIME #10 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 22:48

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View PostOgopogo, on Jan 30 2014 - 15:40, said:

I'd almost say that the 38t should fit in there instead of the panzer 1. But relatively good list nonetheless.

 

I considered it, but since it is technically a Czechoslovakian design, I felt it didn't perfectly fit. The 38 (t) is not a bad tank by any means.



cashdash #11 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 22:50

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View PostLostCosmonaut, on Jan 30 2014 - 16:48, said:

 

I considered it, but since it is technically a Czechoslovakian design, I felt it didn't perfectly fit. The 38 (t) is not a bad tank by any means.

 

i feel that despite it being a Czech design it was still used and produced by the Germans throughout the war, so i think it qualifies.

 

View PostLord_Commander, on Jan 30 2014 - 16:41, said:

1. Tiger II

Because it had a 10:1 KDR and most losses were lack of fuel

 

2. Tiger I

Because it had a 10:1 KDR and most losses were lack of fuel

 

3. Ferdinand/Elephant

Because it had a 10:1 KDR and most losses were lack of fuel

 

4. StuG III

Because it had a 3:1 KDR and was cheap

 

5. Sturmtiger

Because in one engagement it blew up 3x Shermans with a single shell

 

 

Honorable Mention:

 

Pz Div Muncheburg Panther Ausf G's with Sperber IR @ Seelow Heights bringing down the hurt on Zhukov's Guard's tank battalions

 

can't tell if trolling or serious.



Tiger_23 #12 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 22:51

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StuG

PzIII

Marder

Nashorn

 

and

Opel Blitz? volkswagen?

 

View PostLord_Commander, on Jan 30 2014 - 18:41, said:

1. Tiger II

Because it had a 10:1 KDR and most losses were lack of fuel

 

2. Tiger I

Because it had a 10:1 KDR and most losses were lack of fuel

 

3. Ferdinand/Elephant

Because it had a 10:1 KDR and most losses were lack of fuel

 

4. StuG III

Because it had a 3:1 KDR and was cheap

 

5. Sturmtiger

Because in one engagement it blew up 3x Shermans with a single shell

 

 

Honorable Mention:

 

Pz Div Muncheburg Panther Ausf G's with Sperber IR @ Seelow Heights bringing down the hurt on Zhukov's Guard's tank battalions

 

 

 



Bulcsu #13 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 22:52

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1. StuG III

2. Pz 38t

3. Marder 38t, Marder II, Panzerjager I

4. Panzer III

5. Panzer II

 

All of the above were effective, efficient, and reliable.  When the Panzer III's, II's, and 38t's became obsolete they still made phenomenal tank destroyers and assault guns.  No need to waste resources on the cost-ineffective upgraded Panzer IV's or the menagerie of super panzers.



noxqq4uall2003 #14 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 22:57

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Time for the Flame Wars!Asuming this will be like the other Topics

Edited by noxqq4uall2003, Jan 30 2014 - 22:59.


WulfeHound #15 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 22:59

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1) Panzer III

2) Panzer III

3) StuG III

4) Marder series

5) Nashorn/Hummel



Noggmoritz #16 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 23:00

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Germany is outnumbered 10:1 on a manpower scale. The last thing they need is spammy cheap junko tanks with nobody around to crew them. They are handing out state of the art weapons to kids and grandpas by 1945. A shortage of manpower demands quality over quantity equipment whether or not such a scenario is "winnable" to begin with.

 

Tiger II may have costed 3x as much as a Stug III but they scored more than 3x the amount of kills, plus had the armor needed to spearhead counterattacks. Same goes for the Tiger I. Granted the war was already lost by 1943, but the Operation Citadel assault (Kursk) would have been impossible to attempt without Tiger Is.



Daigensui #17 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 23:05

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View PostLord_Commander, on Jan 30 2014 - 14:00, said:

Tiger II may have costed 3x as much as a Stug III but they scored more than 3x the amount of kills, plus had the armor needed to spearhead counterattacks. 

 

Actually, StuGs got most of the kills.



xthetenth #18 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 23:10

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View PostLord_Commander, on Jan 30 2014 - 17:00, said:

Germany is outnumbered 10:1 on a manpower scale. The last thing they need is spammy cheap junko tanks with nobody around to crew them. They are handing out state of the art weapons to kids and grandpas by 1945. A shortage of manpower demands quality over quantity equipment whether or not such a scenario is "winnable" to begin with.

 

Tiger II may have costed 3x as much as a Stug III but they scored more than 3x the amount of kills, plus had the armor needed to spearhead counterattacks. Same goes for the Tiger I. Granted the war was already lost by 1943, but the Operation Citadel assault (Kursk) would have been impossible to attempt without Tiger Is.

 

This after most of the able-bodied young men died in a cotton uniform. Right. What is the cotton RHA equivalency anyway?

 

Also, why'd they build a tank as blind as the Panther with such unsafe ammunition storage (a major cause of crew fatality) if they were averse to losing crews?



cashdash #19 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 23:13

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View PostLord_Commander, on Jan 30 2014 - 17:00, said:

Germany is outnumbered 10:1 on a manpower scale. The last thing they need is spammy cheap junko tanks with nobody around to crew them. They are handing out state of the art weapons to kids and grandpas by 1945. A shortage of manpower demands quality over quantity equipment whether or not such a scenario is "winnable" to begin with.

 

Tiger II may have costed 3x as much as a Stug III but they scored more than 3x the amount of kills, plus had the armor needed to spearhead counterattacks. Same goes for the Tiger I. Granted the war was already lost by 1943, but the Operation Citadel assault (Kursk) would have been impossible to attempt without Tiger Is.

 

sigh, prepare for a spam of links disproving pretty much everything you just said.

 

http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/03/sherman-vs-tiger.html

http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/03/soviet-85-mm-guns-vs-tigers.html

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/08/03/cheating-at-statistics/

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/07/28/please-dont-use-the-5-m4s-1-panther-myth/

http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/05/100-mm-gun-vs-tiger-ii.html

http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/03/suisu-152-vs-german-big-cats.html

http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/03/is-2-vs-german-big-cats.html

http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/03/soviet-85-mm-guns-vs-tigers.html

http://worldoftanks.com/en/news/21/chieftains-hatch-french-panthers/

 

the big cats were not super tanks, they were over engineered, expensive, unreliable, plagued by problems with quality control throughout all aspects of production, and over-hyped by SS propaganda. even their much touted armor were no advantage when a M4 Sherman with a 75 mm gun could pen a Tiger or Panther.

 

EDIT, and how could i forget to mention the 45 ton Panther was mounted on a 35 ton chassis? or how their armor frequently cracked and shattered after even non-penetrating or ricocheting hits?


Edited by cashdash, Jan 30 2014 - 23:17.


An_old_slow_guy #20 Posted Jan 30 2014 - 23:13

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Nice lists, but any list that omits the Tiger I is flawed. No tank on any side in WWII elicited more fear than this beast (when it worked). So much so that any tough tank and crew encountered by allied tanks was labelled a Tiger whether it actually was one or not. 





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