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Clan Wars Map Exhibition: Northwest

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Hypnotik #1 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 02:43

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Hello Clan Wars players,

 

The time has come for the next tournament in the Map Exhibition series, and this time around you'll be playing on Northwest. Northwest is a 1,000m x 1,000m map based in the Rocky Mountains of North America, with several elevations and features to fight around. You may have also heard that it received a little bit of re-work for update 8.11, which is coming soon.

 

Map Preview

 

Minimap Changes

 

Stage 1 will be round-robin play to narrow the field down to 40. Stage 2 will be a second round-robin day, and each of the 4 divisions will send 2 teams to the playoffs. We will again be streaming the final day (Semi-finals and Championship) on twitch.tv/wargaming.

 

Improvements Since the Previous Exhibition

All rounds will now be played at 5PM PST (8PM EST), except the final round which will begin at 4PM PST (7PM EST) so it may be casted live on Twitch again by the two greatest announcers in the world (Q/Hyp, obviously).

 

We are also eliminating the double-battle feature on the second day. It was an interesting twist and we liked that it tested the depth of clans' rosters, but it made the tournament more expensive to participate in and raised the barrier of entry a little bit too high for many clans. In addition, now that Clan Wars has started back up, you'll need some of those players for your CW battles.

 

The Prizes

1st: 80,000 Gold

2nd: 40,000 Gold

3rd/4th: 20,000 Gold

5-8th: 10,000 Gold

 

In addition, all teams that make it to Day 2 (the top 40) will receive 1,000 Gold.

 

Note: All prizes are awarded to the Clan Treasury.

 

Each Clan is ONLY allowed to submit ONE team.

All players on each team MUST be in the Clan represented by the tournament team.

 

  [OTTER]        
             
      [OTTER]    
[-_-]            
  [-_-]          
[SM0KE]       [OTTER]    
  [BADGR]          
             
      [CHAI]      
             
  [CHAI]          
            [OTTER]
  [FORGE]         Champion
             
      [FORGE]      
             
  [HHL]          
        [NTR]    
  [ACA]          
             
      [NTR]      
[D-O-S]            
  [NTR]          
[NTR]            

 



Happy_Killmor #2 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 03:03

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Is it still a special battle where we will not earn money, like in practice mode, or it will be clan wars style where we will have the chance to win money so it won't be a credit hole this time?

TheBattleMaster8 #3 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 03:17

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That new attack/flank route is.....omg! lol

yelsneH #4 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 03:53

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Sounds fun. So fun.

_Midas #5 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 05:31

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Relic 3rd will NOT be participating due to the cost of fighting the regular matches.  Having 14 clanmates spending 80,000 credits each = 1,120,000 credits PER MATCH.  Figure 10 matches and you're at 11,200,000 credits spent or 28,000 gold.

 

No thanks WGLNA, that's a bad fiscal move in my book.



SpunkyGoon #6 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 05:58

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semi-finals are on a Tuesday at 1-4 pm pst?

ConfederateRebel1 #7 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 12:31

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yea more gold for all their top clans as usual smaller clans have no chance thanks WARGAMING!!!!!!! way to look out for all your players

Karl_Martin95 #8 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 15:59

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Why is it useful? For the great clans win wargaming friends again? No thanks, I do not spend my time competing against cheaters. 
Small clans have no chance, and the great clans always play and not lose one. 

I'm disappointed.



CzechMonster #9 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 16:18

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View Postboomboomthunder, on Feb 04 2014 - 06:31, said:

yea more gold for all their top clans as usual smaller clans have no chance thanks WARGAMING!!!!!!! way to look out for all your players

 

View PostKarl_Martin95, on Feb 04 2014 - 09:59, said:

Why is it useful? For the great clans win wargaming friends again? No thanks, I do not spend my time competing against cheaters. 
Small clans have no chance, and the great clans always play and not lose one. 

I'm disappointed.

 

What do you want? Free gold? Learn to play or stop crying.



yelsneH #10 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 16:23

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View PostCzechMonster, on Feb 04 2014 - 09:18, said:

 

 

What do you want? Free gold? Learn to play or stop crying.

 

He obviously wants you to stop cheating. And also for you to stop win wargaming friends again.



stugger #11 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 16:49

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View Postkmidas16, on Feb 03 2014 - 21:31, said:

Relic 3rd will NOT be participating due to the cost of fighting the regular matches.  Having 14 clanmates spending 80,000 credits each = 1,120,000 credits PER MATCH.  Figure 10 matches and you're at 11,200,000 credits spent or 28,000 gold.

 

No thanks WGLNA, that's a bad fiscal move in my book.

 

This.  I'm sorry Hyp and Q but if you think 30k more gold reward compensates for the absolutely overwhelming amount of credits required to participate in this then you are dead wrong.  I don't think I heard a single complaint about the reward amount last series because there was so many posts about the cost of shells, yet nothing is done about that.

 

View Postboomboomthunder, on Feb 04 2014 - 04:31, said:

yea more gold for all their top clans as usual smaller clans have no chance thanks WARGAMING!!!!!!! way to look out for all your players

View PostKarl_Martin95, on Feb 04 2014 - 07:59, said:

Why is it useful? For the great clans win wargaming friends again? No thanks, I do not spend my time competing against cheaters. 
Small clans have no chance, and the great clans always play and not lose one. 

I'm disappointed.

 

To say what I'd really want to say in regards to these posts would probably land me a hefty RO, so I'll just say this.  Smaller clans still just expecting gold instead of fighting for it, I'm disappointed. 


Edited by stugger, Feb 04 2014 - 16:51.


RyanGetzIaf #12 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 17:25

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View PostHypnotik, on Feb 03 2014 - 20:43, said:

Improvements Since the Previous Exhibition

All rounds will now be played at 5PM PST (8PM EST), except the final round which will begin at 4PM PST (7PM EST) so it may be casted live on Twitch again by the two greatest announcers in the world (Q/Hyp, obviously).

 

It's probably because you don`t want it to happen at the same time that clan wars time, but don`t you think it's too early for west coast player? I mean people are leaving their job and are stuck in the traffic at 4PM. 



Private2AT #13 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 17:57

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For the first stage which is round robin (I assume this is not single elimination), how many battles can a single clan expect to face on that night?



Katukov #14 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 18:06

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Imho, 40 for next round is to much. I would suggest to shrink this number to 20.

stugger #15 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 18:20

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View PostPrivate2AT, on Feb 04 2014 - 09:57, said:

For the first stage which is round robin (I assume this is not single elimination), how many battles can a single clan expect to face on that night?

 

In the last CW exhibition it was 8 or 9 battles which start every 20 minutes.



Hypnotik #16 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 19:15

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View PostKarl_Martin95, on Feb 04 2014 - 06:59, said:

Why is it useful? For the great clans win wargaming friends again? No thanks, I do not spend my time competing against cheaters. 
Small clans have no chance, and the great clans always play and not lose one. 

I'm disappointed.

This is a tournament, the prizes are for those who earn them. If you have proof of anyone cheating, be sure to send it to us.

Simply put, any clan can win. Those who play the best as a team will win, which every team has the same opportunity to do.

 

View Poststugger, on Feb 04 2014 - 07:49, said:

This.  I'm sorry Hyp and Q but if you think 30k more gold reward compensates for the absolutely overwhelming amount of credits required to participate in this then you are dead wrong.  I don't think I heard a single complaint about the reward amount last series because there was so many posts about the cost of shells, yet nothing is done about that.

The cost of shells is a game balance issue, so for this tournament we've made changes to what we are able to. We more than doubled the prize pool and decreased the cost of participation (less matches) by 30%. It may not be the perfect solution, but if you earn the gold, it more than pays you back for what you've put in.

 

View PostThekebecer, on Feb 04 2014 - 08:25, said:

It's probably because you don`t want it to happen at the same time that clan wars time, but don`t you think it's too early for west coast player? I mean people are leaving their job and are stuck in the traffic at 4PM. 

It's due to the stream that battles on the final day need to happen at 4PM. Unfortunately, this cannot be changed.

 

View PostPrivate2AT, on Feb 04 2014 - 08:57, said:

For the first stage which is round robin (I assume this is not single elimination), how many battles can a single clan expect to face on that night?

In a round-robin stage, you will play up to 9 battles. It's dependent upon the number of teams in your group. It isn't single-elimination, you will play a fixed number of matches in stage 1.

 

View PostKatukov, on Feb 04 2014 - 09:06, said:

Imho, 40 for next round is to much. I would suggest to shrink this number to 20.

This would reduce the number of matches played by the majority of teams too much. Remember, one of the goals of this tournament series is to allow clans the opportunity to play on newer maps which may/may not make it onto the Clan Wars map in a Clan Wars style of play before they get there.  Competitively, there's another problem - with 20 teams in round 2, we'd have only 2 groups, and so 4 from each group move on to playoffs. When you go as far down as 4 in a group, there are far more ties for those who would make it on to the playoffs. This would also restrict the number of teams who get a payout.



stugger #17 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 20:00

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View PostHypnotik, on Feb 04 2014 - 11:15, said:

The cost of shells is a game balance issue, so for this tournament we've made changes to what we are able to. We more than doubled the prize pool and decreased the cost of participation (less matches) by 30%. It may not be the perfect solution, but if you earn the gold, it more than pays you back for what you've put in.

 

Ok so let say its 9 matches the first day, 2nd day would have 7 games, then 1 game for the 3rd day and 2 for the final day.  A total of 19 games (give or take 1 or 2, my math is bad today) if you make it to the end.  Last exhibition I played only arty (T92) and I'd do the same again for this exhibition, and would expect to see an average of 7-10 shots per match.  Assuming an average of 8 shots per match at 19 matches that is a total of 152 shots fired, which at 17 gold/shell cost I would spend a credit equivalent of 2,584 worth of gold in this tourney, this also does not count any consumables/repair costs.

 

Now if my tourney team won and we got 80,000 gold in the treasury, dividing that by 50 (we had about 50 odd people in R3LIC last exhibition IIRC) gives 1,600 gold for those 50 people.  Meaning I'm still at a 984 gold deficit (only for shells fired and not consumables/repairs), I'm failing to see how that makes up for what I would put into this?

 

Could there not be a credit prize for each registered player as compensation for this or implementation of credit reward? The amount to each individual for a prize of course would depend on final standings of their team.  Seriously this would be immensely fun if it wasn't a gigantic credit sink.  I'm not participating in this series but would love to participate in the next one if something is done about the cost.



Tedster_ #18 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 20:04

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is it possible to set up a mission that pays out credits based on the auto-resupply costs, applicable only to battles fought in this tournament?

Private2AT #19 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 20:41

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View Poststugger, on Feb 04 2014 - 19:00, said:

 

Ok so let say its 9 matches the first day, 2nd day would have 7 games, then 1 game for the 3rd day and 2 for the final day.  A total of 19 games (give or take 1 or 2, my math is bad today) if you make it to the end.  Last exhibition I played only arty (T92) and I'd do the same again for this exhibition, and would expect to see an average of 7-10 shots per match.  Assuming an average of 8 shots per match at 19 matches that is a total of 152 shots fired, which at 17 gold/shell cost I would spend a credit equivalent of 2,584 worth of gold in this tourney, this also does not count any consumables/repair costs.

 

Now if my tourney team won and we got 80,000 gold in the treasury, dividing that by 50 (we had about 50 odd people in R3LIC last exhibition IIRC) gives 1,600 gold for those 50 people.  Meaning I'm still at a 984 gold deficit (only for shells fired and not consumables/repairs), I'm failing to see how that makes up for what I would put into this?

 

Could there not be a credit prize for each registered player as compensation for this or implementation of credit reward? The amount to each individual for a prize of course would depend on final standings of their team.  Seriously this would be immensely fun if it wasn't a gigantic credit sink.  I'm not participating in this series but would love to participate in the next one if something is done about the cost.

 

Stugger,

 

I have not gone through the math, but potentially if you changed the way you clan pays out the gold it would be different.

 

So if you take each battle participated in as a share, and there are as you stated 19 games with assuming 14 players in each match, (feel free to go in with 10 and still school the opposition) that would mean there is a total of...19 X 14 = 266 shares.  Now take that 80K gold, and that means each share is worth...80 000 / 266 = 300 gp.  So if you played in all 19 matches like you gave in your example, you would have 19 shares and you would make...19 X 300 gp = 5700 gp.

 

feel free to re-run the numbers if you go in with the minimum 17 required for sign up and want to give equal shares to all.

 

According to your example that is twice the expenses you had (if I read right) so you would be making gold.  If you finished second, you would wind up breaking even roughly (same number of battle, just 1/2 the prize).  If its still not enough gold, that is a matter of opinion.

 

Just thought I would throw another angle at this.  Everyone will have to decide if its worth it for them to participate.  Also some people may not be motivated by economics.  Some just want to play big organized battles and there are not enough Champion Tank company oponents out there.  To each their own.

 



Makaze2048 #20 Posted Feb 04 2014 - 20:46

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View PostHypnotik, on Feb 04 2014 - 13:15, said:

The cost of shells is a game balance issue

I don't think anyone is arguing that shells should cost any less. Rather the issue is the 0 credit income that result from the matches. No one complains that CW is too expensive. The problem is not the cost of shells, it's that you're running tournaments out of training rooms. Instituting a real tournament system that allows for scheduling, enforcement of full tourney rules, and compensating players for shells fired should be a priority over things like the horribly broken national mode. And speaking of dev priorities (or lack thereof...) whatever happened to that CW development team? It's been months now and nary a whisper of a change other than the universally despised subversions.

 

I can't speak for Red Sky in general, but I know I personally won't be participating for this and only this reason. It's just not worth the crazy amount of credits that were spent last time.







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