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Team Damage/Kill System Changes for 8.11

TK/TD Patch Changes 8.11

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BigJohnsonLogan #281 Posted May 01 2018 - 03:08

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View Postpeloubet, on Apr 21 2018 - 15:18, said:

Dear WOT:

 I recently received a penalty lasting until April 28th. This is a penalty of over one week. i had allowed my grandkids the opportunity to play WOT. I would imagine that they mistook friendly tanks for enemy not know the difference. There should be an appeal process for actions such as this. it is very unfair to impose such a lengthy penalty.

 

View Postket101, on Apr 21 2018 - 18:53, said:

 

How is Wargaming supposed to know that your grandkids are playing?  By the way, how old are they?  (Technically there's an age restriction on the game, mainly due to adults saying naughty words in chat.)  Of course, there's that bit in the EULA about not letting other people use your account, but never mind that. 

 

There used to be a process for submitting tickets about team kills and damage.  But it was swamped by the whole playerbase, just about, leading to months of backlog in Support tickets.  That's why they went to an automated system, which they rely on completely.  Absolutely completely.  On the very first post on this thread, it says that discussions will not be entered into.

 

Besides that, a week's ban is after an hour's ban and a day's ban.  If your grandkids are intentionally targeting other teammates after two bans almost immediately, then perhaps you might want to change the password.  The day's ban should have brought some complaints from the kids about not being able to play.

 

If they continue to play without changing their playstyle, you're up to a month's ban next time.  The one after is three months.  The one after that is permanent.

 

Historically, the Soviet Union actually shot deserters during the German invasion of the motherland. 

"To prevent his soldiers deserting the front line around the capital, Stalin ordered special 'blocking detachments' to shoot all deserters."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/hitler_russia_invasion_01.shtml

 

Wargaming is a Russian thinking company. Traitors, deserters are shot just like they did back in World War 2.

They can't understand why this thinking does not work well in a video game, in North America, where being banned from a game might make a player never spend money on the game or ever come back to play after the ban has expired.

However, the problem with applying this logic to a video game where the game developer wants to retain paying players who will buy premium time, premium ships, etc, it's absolutely retarded.

 

Let's review the Top 10 Steam games today.

https://store.steampowered.com/stats

 

Top games by current player count
CURRENT PLAYERS PEAK TODAY GAME
 
593,672 1,990,013 PLAYERUNKNOWN'S BATTLEGROUNDS
314,350 672,306 Dota 2
190,669 455,403 Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
54,509 104,954 Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege
46,618 64,059 Warframe
40,241 47,281 Team Fortress 2
32,006 32,006 Stardew Valley
29,629 52,036 Rocket League
29,486 52,397 PAYDAY 2
29,419 60,705 Grand Theft Auto V
 

The number one game is a Battle Royale game where all the other players are the enemy and you can shoot them without penalty.

Which one of these game will do more than kick you from the server for a Team Kill ? NONE OF THEM !!!

I was going to show the player count for World Of Tanks, but it's not even in the Top 100 today !

 

 

 

 

 

 



ket101 #282 Posted May 01 2018 - 10:29

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View PostBigJohnsonLogan, on May 01 2018 - 12:08, said:

 

 

Historically, the Soviet Union actually shot deserters during the German invasion of the motherland. 

"To prevent his soldiers deserting the front line around the capital, Stalin ordered special 'blocking detachments' to shoot all deserters."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/hitler_russia_invasion_01.shtml

 

Wargaming is a Russian thinking company. Traitors, deserters are shot just like they did back in World War 2.

They can't understand why this thinking does not work well in a video game, in North America, where being banned from a game might make a player never spend money on the game or ever come back to play after the ban has expired.

However, the problem with applying this logic to a video game where the game developer wants to retain paying players who will buy premium time, premium ships, etc, it's absolutely retarded.

 

Let's review the Top 10 Steam games today.

https://store.steampowered.com/stats

 

Top games by current player count
CURRENT PLAYERS PEAK TODAY GAME
 
593,672 1,990,013 PLAYERUNKNOWN'S BATTLEGROUNDS
314,350 672,306 Dota 2
190,669 455,403 Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
54,509 104,954 Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege
46,618 64,059 Warframe
40,241 47,281 Team Fortress 2
32,006 32,006 Stardew Valley
29,629 52,036 Rocket League
29,486 52,397 PAYDAY 2
29,419 60,705 Grand Theft Auto V
 

The number one game is a Battle Royale game where all the other players are the enemy and you can shoot them without penalty.

Which one of these game will do more than kick you from the server for a Team Kill ? NONE OF THEM !!!

I was going to show the player count for World Of Tanks, but it's not even in the Top 100 today !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure what your point actually is.  Do you want teamkillers punted or not?  In a free-for-all game where you're against everyone, there isn't a team to teamkill anyone on it.  And in any case, the Soviet Union was hardly on it's own in shooting deserters.  Desertion in the face of the enemy was a serious crime in any army you care to name.  Penalties varied - flogging, branding, imprisonment, etc. - but execution was not unusual.

 

Shooting your teammates harms your team's chances of winning.  Thus, because there are people who WILL do anything to sabotage their team, simply for their own amusement, there needs to be a way to discourage them in some way.  The current TK system keeps teamkilling to a minimum.  It's been proved.  I've told this tale before, several times, but one more time for the ...  (Australians would be able to fill in the blank). 

 

There was a test server where the TK system wasn't activated.  When this was realised, team killing went through the roof.  Obviously, being a test server, it had no effect on their regular account stats, but there's reason to believe the normal servers would suffer in much the same way if there was no TK system.  Because there are people who WILL do anything to wreck other peoples' games, and there are people who have no control over the way they respond to provocation.  When the next iteration of test server commenced, the TK system was re-activated.  TK's dropped to normal levels.

 

So, believe it or not, the TK system improves the game, for the by far greater majority.  Those who want vengeance at all costs, well, try the games he's listed above.



BigJohnsonLogan #283 Posted May 01 2018 - 23:13

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View Postket101, on May 01 2018 - 04:29, said:

 

Not sure what your point actually is.  Do you want teamkillers punted or not?  In a free-for-all game where you're against everyone, there isn't a team to teamkill anyone on it.  And in any case, the Soviet Union was hardly on it's own in shooting deserters.  Desertion in the face of the enemy was a serious crime in any army you care to name.  Penalties varied - flogging, branding, imprisonment, etc. - but execution was not unusual.

 

Shooting your teammates harms your team's chances of winning.  Thus, because there are people who WILL do anything to sabotage their team, simply for their own amusement, there needs to be a way to discourage them in some way.  The current TK system keeps teamkilling to a minimum.  It's been proved.  I've told this tale before, several times, but one more time for the ...  (Australians would be able to fill in the blank). 

 

There was a test server where the TK system wasn't activated.  When this was realised, team killing went through the roof.  Obviously, being a test server, it had no effect on their regular account stats, but there's reason to believe the normal servers would suffer in much the same way if there was no TK system.  Because there are people who WILL do anything to wreck other peoples' games, and there are people who have no control over the way they respond to provocation.  When the next iteration of test server commenced, the TK system was re-activated.  TK's dropped to normal levels.

 

So, believe it or not, the TK system improves the game, for the by far greater majority.  Those who want vengeance at all costs, well, try the games he's listed above.

 

It appears you are as DENSE as the Game Developers at Wargaming. The future of gaming is the free-for-all game and no team damage penalty.

 

Kicking a team killer off the server for an hour, then a day makes sense, but the longer ban times lead to lost players.

Since this is a free to play game that needs to keep paying players who buy premium time, premium vehicles, it is completely retarded to ban hundreds or thousands of players for a few bad shots.

The competing War with Tanks title has a much less restricted team kill penalty system, they have also tested turning off team damage since it prevents having to ban paying players.

 

Wargaming Development is simply too DENSE to see they are the reason all their games are losing players.

 

Where are those players going ?

 

https://store.steampowered.com/stats

 

Top games by current player count
CURRENT PLAYERS PEAK TODAY   GAME
 
593,672 1,990,013   PLAYERUNKNOWN'S BATTLEGROUNDS
314,350 672,306   Dota 2
190,669 455,403   Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
54,509 104,954   Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege
46,618 64,059   Warframe
40,241 47,281   Team Fortress 2
32,006 32,006   Stardew Valley
29,629 52,036   Rocket League
29,486 52,397   PAYDAY 2
29,419 60,705   Grand Theft Auto V
 
 

At the bottom of the barrel
4,591 12,279 World of Tanks Blitz

 

Understand yet ?

 



ket101 #284 Posted May 02 2018 - 01:16

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View PostBigJohnsonLogan, on May 02 2018 - 08:13, said:

 

It appears you are as DENSE as the Game Developers at Wargaming. The future of gaming is the free-for-all game and no team damage penalty.

 

Kicking a team killer off the server for an hour, then a day makes sense, but the longer ban times lead to lost players.

Since this is a free to play game that needs to keep paying players who buy premium time, premium vehicles, it is completely retarded to ban hundreds or thousands of players for a few bad shots.

The competing War with Tanks title has a much less restricted team kill penalty system, they have also tested turning off team damage since it prevents having to ban paying players.

 

Wargaming Development is simply too DENSE to see they are the reason all their games are losing players.

 

Where are those players going ?

 

https://store.steampowered.com/stats

 

Top games by current player count
CURRENT PLAYERS PEAK TODAY   GAME
 
593,672 1,990,013   PLAYERUNKNOWN'S BATTLEGROUNDS
314,350 672,306   Dota 2
190,669 455,403   Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
54,509 104,954   Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege
46,618 64,059   Warframe
40,241 47,281   Team Fortress 2
32,006 32,006   Stardew Valley
29,629 52,036   Rocket League
29,486 52,397   PAYDAY 2
29,419 60,705   Grand Theft Auto V
 
 

At the bottom of the barrel
4,591 12,279 World of Tanks Blitz

 

Understand yet ?

 

 

World of Tanks Blitz?  Different game.  It doesn't have team damage either, so no TK bans.  Try again.

 

This is a team game.  Not a free for all.  They give players more than enough chances to correct their behaviour.  That's not to say that there won't be a free-for-all mode, because that's already been tested.  But Random Battles are a team game.  Whether the future is free-for-all or not, the game as it stands is a team based game.  The numbers of people banned for not realising this is very small.  Far less than those banned for cheating, I would imagine.

 

I mean, "a few bad shots"?  Really?  It takes dedication to get yourself permanently banned.  The hour and day ban is usually more than enough to let people know they need to change the way the play.  And after a period time without doing team damage, the bans reset.  It's very, very generous.  To get permanently banned requires not just the hour and the day, but the week, the month and the three month bans as well.  You'd think that after sitting out of the game for three months, people would make a decision about how they want to play.  In fact, you'd have to be pretty darn DENSE not to get that idea through your thick skull.

 

I believe Aslain's modpack still includes SafeShot, which can help with accidental firing.  Can't stop someone running into your shot, but will stop you from firing if a teammate is in your sights.  Until such times as they actually remove team damage, this may be your best bet if you can't stop shooting teammates.



ti_lex0 #285 Posted May 27 2018 - 00:45

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Freaking perfect system !    sure MY A  SS    got banned  for 24 hours after some1 rammed me and shoted me  ... in 3000 game i shoted only the BITC$ who rammed me  ( AN ALLIE ) and banned !   asking to admin to unban?  CANNOT THE AUTOMATIC SYSTEM CANNOT BE CANCELED !!!!    PFFFF     great game...   lost my reserv and 1 day of playing..        thx broken arms     =X

Edited by ti_lex0, May 27 2018 - 00:58.


ket101 #286 Posted May 27 2018 - 03:00

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View Postti_lex0, on May 27 2018 - 09:45, said:

Freaking perfect system !    sure MY A  SS    got banned  for 24 hours after some1 rammed me and shoted me  ... in 3000 game i shoted only the BITC$ who rammed me  ( AN ALLIE ) and banned !   asking to admin to unban?  CANNOT THE AUTOMATIC SYSTEM CANNOT BE CANCELED !!!!    PFFFF     great game...   lost my reserv and 1 day of playing..        thx broken arms     =X

 

Number One Rule: Don't Shoot The Green Tanks.  If you don't shoot your teammates, you can't be banned for shooting them.

 

First page of this thread is the rules.  They say they rely on the automatic system entirely.  No second guessing. 

 

If someone rams you and/or shoots you, ignore them.  That way they get the penalties.  If you respond to them, you are doing what they want.  Don't get played.



ldselder #287 Posted May 29 2018 - 05:24

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So today I got another 50 games without doing damage to an team mates medal, and later some jerk in a E-25 comes up to my T-67 and starts pushing me over a cliff, I try and move but am no in a position to get free so I turn and shoot him twice and get a 1 day ban,  What a stupid algorithm if it can't take in account the ramming of my vehicle and my trying to save my tank from being destroyed.  WoT you should be banning these jerks that are  starting the problems that ends up with teamates shooting them.  So tired of WoT and wargaming.


Edited by ldselder, May 29 2018 - 06:14.


ket101 #288 Posted May 29 2018 - 08:37

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View Postldselder, on May 29 2018 - 14:24, said:

So today I got another 50 games without doing damage to an team mates medal, and later some jerk in a E-25 comes up to my T-67 and starts pushing me over a cliff, I try and move but am no in a position to get free so I turn and shoot him twice and get a 1 day ban,  What a stupid algorithm if it can't take in account the ramming of my vehicle and my trying to save my tank from being destroyed.  WoT you should be banning these jerks that are  starting the problems that ends up with teamates shooting them.  So tired of WoT and wargaming.

 

If you'd let him push you off the cliff, the likelihood is that he'd get the ban.  Instead, you did his job for him.  You weren't hurting him by shooting him.

IronPagan #289 Posted Jun 01 2018 - 03:22

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The system is a farce.

I had a friendly O-I obliterate me in a match, he didnt even turn blue..


The system does NOT WORK

ket101 #290 Posted Jun 01 2018 - 11:00

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View PostIronPagan, on Jun 01 2018 - 12:22, said:

The system is a farce.

I had a friendly O-I obliterate me in a match, he didnt even turn blue..


The system does NOT WORK

 

No, it does work.  Some people know how to game it, unfortunately. 

 

If it's an O-I, then the likelihood is that it was using the 15cm derp, and using an HE shell.  HE gets a reduced TK rating, due to splash radius.  You don't specify details as to what tank you were driving, or the condition it was in, so it's possible that splash alone may have killed you.  If he's previously had a clean record, then the likelihood of turning blue for one shot is much reduced, since the system does allow people to make errors before getting harder on them.



EatMyShrapnel #291 Posted Jun 04 2018 - 04:02

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I get suspended for firing back at a teammate who intentionally fired upon me first. HMMMMMM!!!!????

ket101 #292 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 00:19

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View PostEatMyShrapnel, on Jun 04 2018 - 13:02, said:

I get suspended for firing back at a teammate who intentionally fired upon me first. HMMMMMM!!!!????

 

Did he do any damage?  And how many times did you fire back?  And how much other team damage has you or he done in recent times?  These are factors to consider.

Thug_Double_OG #293 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 03:28

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what if they team killed in the first 12 seconds of the battle and acted like they was proud of it 

 



ket101 #294 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 06:26

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View PostThug_Double_OG, on Jun 12 2018 - 12:28, said:

what if they team killed in the first 12 seconds of the battle and acted like they was proud of it 

 

 

The system penalises them, at least in credits.  Maybe XP as well.  Moreover, they now have to be careful, as the system will get harder on them if they do any more team damage in near-future games. If you feel you need to add more, you can use the in-game menu to report them for Unsportsmanlike Behaviour.  This can be done while you are in the match, or with the after battle results screen.  Responding to them, though, isn't advised.  It just lets them know that they've succeeded in upsetting you, which is what they were after.





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