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Team Damage/Kill System Changes for 8.11

TK/TD Patch Changes 8.11

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ket101 #201 Posted Aug 10 2016 - 01:13

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View Postnoceum, on Aug 09 2016 - 23:17, said:

At start of game maus killed our t92. So I kill them and im suspended ? and there not? that's [edited] If the system worked maus would have been banned . So system DONT WORK.

 

Maus almost certainly used HE to kill the T92.  HE gets a reduced rating in the TK system, due to splash effects.  The T92 also has a LOT less health than a Maus.  If you killed a Maus from full health, that's a lot of hp damage you're doing, and adding the destruction of the tank to the formula.  You also probably used AP or premium rounds, which do not get a reduced rating.  If it's at the start, the Maus may have even been in the cap circle, which means penalties are increased over and above what they usually are.  That doesn't even take into account any team damage you may (or may not) have done in other recent matches.  So the system does work, it just didn't work in your favour.  The system doesn't provide for revenge attacks, only allowing the shooting of teammates when their name turns blue.

 

How do you make it work in your favour?  Don't shoot the green tanks.  Wait for them to turn blue, and then you're free to shoot them without penalty.  And maybe not even then, if they're trying to do the right thing.



HFB4Qc #202 Posted Mar 27 2017 - 16:45

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You guys dont get it! just stop shooting team mates.

ImaKillYou #203 Posted Mar 27 2017 - 16:53

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dat necro bro

dtech114 #204 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 09:13

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I just had someone insult me and try and TK me and then I defended myself and for the first time ever got banned for a day.  First of all I thought the first ban was supposed to be for an hour and it banned me for 24 hours.  That is ridiculous when you are defending yourseld from someone that has already insulted you, shot you first, and is trying to kill you.

Edited by dtech114, Apr 09 2017 - 09:14.


ket101 #205 Posted Apr 09 2017 - 10:14

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View Postdtech114, on Apr 09 2017 - 18:13, said:

I just had someone insult me and try and TK me and then I defended myself and for the first time ever got banned for a day.  First of all I thought the first ban was supposed to be for an hour and it banned me for 24 hours.  That is ridiculous when you are defending yourseld from someone that has already insulted you, shot you first, and is trying to kill you.

 

How long ago were you banned for an hour?  The day's worth of ban is the next level of ban, after the hour.

 

Don't shoot teammates.  It doesn't matter if they're shooting you, pushing you, or insulting you.  If you shoot back and damage them, up to and including killing them, you will be penalised.  Let them damage you, they are the ones who will take the penalties.  If they are goading you into retaliating, don't do it.  That's what they want you to do.  Until they turn blue, don't shoot them.



WildFred #206 Posted May 01 2017 - 14:12

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I know there is no appeals process for TK penalties, so I just want to state first thing that this is not what this is!  I had a situation in a game yesterday that caused me to get punished for an hour (no big deal), but I wasn't at fault, and possibly the other guy involved wasn't either.  So I think it might be useful to explain what happened...I've very sorry, but I don't have a replay, so I'll try my best to be very descriptive.

 

Map: Highway

Spawn: South West corner.

My Vehicle: Strv S1

Other Vehicle involved:  T34 (I think a Rudy)

What happened:

Game started and a bunch of us went directly north along the western edge of the map (typical for this map).  When I got to the little hill at the western end of the highway I stopped on top and went into siege mode.  I was zoomed in waiting for a shot, when the guy in the T34 ran into me from behind.  He pushed me up into the air with the front of my tank pinned into the ground, and the belly of my tank on his turret roof.  I realized what was going on, and tried to move, but I guess his turret kept my tracks from contacting anything, so I couldn't move off him.  He didn't move out from under me for whatever reason (maybe he couldn't), so the whole time I was doing crushing damage to him.  I disengaged siege mode thinking maybe that would help me move, but it didn't, and shortly thereafter (just a couple seconds from when he first hit me) he was killed and I got banned for an hour.  It's likely, that if I had been in a different tank, I could have easily just driven forward a few meters to get off the top of him, but the way the tracks on the S1 are, and how the front sticks out, I couldn't get any traction.

 

It was only a one hour ban (I went and got a snack) so the penalty wasn't really a big deal, but perhaps this will give the devs an example of a situation where the TK system could be improved.  I'd be more than happy to answer any questions you have.


Edited by WildFred, May 01 2017 - 14:12.


exetflagger #207 Posted May 09 2017 - 06:01

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View PostWildFred, on May 01 2017 - 13:12, said:

I know there is no appeals process for TK penalties, so I just want to state first thing that this is not what this is!  I had a situation in a game yesterday that caused me to get punished for an hour (no big deal), but I wasn't at fault, and possibly the other guy involved wasn't either.  So I think it might be useful to explain what happened...I've very sorry, but I don't have a replay, so I'll try my best to be very descriptive.

 

Map: Highway

Spawn: South West corner.

My Vehicle: Strv S1

Other Vehicle involved:  T34 (I think a Rudy)

What happened:

Game started and a bunch of us went directly north along the western edge of the map (typical for this map).  When I got to the little hill at the western end of the highway I stopped on top and went into siege mode.  I was zoomed in waiting for a shot, when the guy in the T34 ran into me from behind.  He pushed me up into the air with the front of my tank pinned into the ground, and the belly of my tank on his turret roof.  I realized what was going on, and tried to move, but I guess his turret kept my tracks from contacting anything, so I couldn't move off him.  He didn't move out from under me for whatever reason (maybe he couldn't), so the whole time I was doing crushing damage to him.  I disengaged siege mode thinking maybe that would help me move, but it didn't, and shortly thereafter (just a couple seconds from when he first hit me) he was killed and I got banned for an hour.  It's likely, that if I had been in a different tank, I could have easily just driven forward a few meters to get off the top of him, but the way the tracks on the S1 are, and how the front sticks out, I couldn't get any traction.

 

It was only a one hour ban (I went and got a snack) so the penalty wasn't really a big deal, but perhaps this will give the devs an example of a situation where the TK system could be improved.  I'd be more than happy to answer any questions you have.

 

Same thing happened to me tonight. I'm going to post the replay in a separate post, but wanted you to know you're not alone. They should change the sensitivity when it comes to crushing damage, like double it compared to what shooting a teammate incurs.

exetflagger #208 Posted May 09 2017 - 06:09

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I'm posting a replay that shows a flaw in the TK banning system.

 

I will begin by stating that I shot the back of a teammate's turret in a previous game. Total accident. I'm a scrub.

 

I'll also add that in the 4 years that I've been playing this game I've never been banned for anything, for any amount of time.

 

Here's the replay that shows me getting banned and why. It's not my best performance... I'm almost too embarrassed to show it. It's pretty clear what happened, but so you know what to look for: the two of us were hiding behind slim cover and somehow my tank was causing crushing damage to their tank...? The replay ends when I got banned/turned blue.

 

http://wotreplays.com/site/3570396#cliff-exetflagger-cromwell_b


Edited by exetflagger, May 09 2017 - 06:17.


ket101 #209 Posted May 09 2017 - 11:24

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That does seem a little odd.  It was 30 hp damage all up and the other vehicle wasn't even dead.  It wasn't a critical area (eg cap circle or spawn point) either.  If what you've given is accurate, it certainly seems to be an error.  Seeking a remedy isn't really something that would work, given the statements in the rules about complete reliance on the TK system, but it may be worthwhile posting this in the Bugs section here:

 

http://forum.worldof...-bug-reporting/

 



MrYeats #210 Posted Jun 20 2017 - 01:48

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I want a replay of the battle i was just in. I was in my m8 tank destroyer when the beginning of the game commenced. I sat still for a few seconds deciding where to go. Suddenly, I started moving sideways. I looked at this monster tank 0-Exp or similar, he was pushing me. I tried to evade and he followed, continuing to push me. I went on chat and asked "what is your problem?
 I had already made 3 or 4 moves but he persists so I shot him once, He didnt back off and kept pushing, I shot again and he finally moved off, only to line up and shoot me! I shot him again and killed him, and I was immediately suspended.

 I pay out lots of bucks to play this game and I hope the Admin people will be fair in their review of the action, if they even do that in the name of fairness.



ket101 #211 Posted Jun 20 2017 - 02:56

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View PostMrYeats, on Jun 20 2017 - 10:48, said:

I want a replay of the battle i was just in. I was in my m8 tank destroyer when the beginning of the game commenced. I sat still for a few seconds deciding where to go. Suddenly, I started moving sideways. I looked at this monster tank 0-Exp or similar, he was pushing me. I tried to evade and he followed, continuing to push me. I went on chat and asked "what is your problem?
 I had already made 3 or 4 moves but he persists so I shot him once, He didnt back off and kept pushing, I shot again and he finally moved off, only to line up and shoot me! I shot him again and killed him, and I was immediately suspended.

 I pay out lots of bucks to play this game and I hope the Admin people will be fair in their review of the action, if they even do that in the name of fairness.

 

WG relies on the automated system for TK penalties.  They don't review those situations.

 

If you hadn't shot the O-I Exp, you would have been able to send in a ticket for Physics Abuse.  They do review those situations, and hand out penalties.

 

Unfortunately, you did exactly what the other player wanted you to do.  The TK system penalises ALL team damage, regardless of motive behind it.

 

Next time, make sure you have replays enabled, and submit the replay file with your ticket to Support for the Physics Abuse.  Replay files go into their own folder in your WoT directory, and they're clearly labelled with the tank and map you were on.  They're typically one and a half megs at their most, so don't take up a lot of space, and can be removed or deleted without affecting the game. 

 

And most important of all, NEVER shoot the green tanks (ie, the ones on your team), otherwise you get the penalties that should have been theirs.



GHR1227 #212 Posted Jun 20 2017 - 03:22

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View Postexetflagger, on May 08 2017 - 23:01, said:

 

Same thing happened to me tonight. I'm going to post the replay in a separate post, but wanted you to know you're not alone. They should change the sensitivity when it comes to crushing damage, like double it compared to what shooting a teammate incurs.

THIS is a situation where you might get a reprieve for TK.  Make a ticket.   Neither of you were at fault but instead the broken physics engine was.



Alterinus #213 Posted Jun 20 2017 - 03:34

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View PostGHR1227, on Jun 20 2017 - 03:22, said:

THIS is a situation where you might get a reprieve for TK.  Make a ticket.   Neither of you were at fault but instead the broken physics engine was.

 

Used to be that you could push a friendly tank into a corner if you were bigger than them, and then wiggle your butt around so it'd 'walk' the friendly tank up the side of the wall, then they'd be on their side on top of you, crushing you. If they killed you from this damage, they'd turn blue and get a 1 hour ban. If you 'killed them' due to them crushing against you, you wouldn't get any negative points or a ban.

 

Sounds like they tried to fix this and have initiated this circumstance.

 

 



Alterinus #214 Posted Jun 20 2017 - 04:03

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View Postdtech114, on Apr 09 2017 - 09:13, said:

I just had someone insult me and try and TK me and then I defended myself and for the first time ever got banned for a day.  First of all I thought the first ban was supposed to be for an hour and it banned me for 24 hours.  That is ridiculous when you are defending yourseld from someone that has already insulted you, shot you first, and is trying to kill you.

 

Just as an FYI, you can get in 'double trouble' for tks, assuming you get banned for it once, and then someone reports you through the ticket system. You can also get 'triple trouble' if enough people report you through the HUD system from within the game. The left hand frequently does not know what the right hand is doing.

 

Some wily tricksters will lure you into tking them, and then report you after for the tk, even as you've been banned already by the automated system.

 

Any auto system can be abused.


Edited by Alterinus, Jun 20 2017 - 04:04.


Alterinus #215 Posted Jun 20 2017 - 05:25

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View PostGHR1227, on Jun 20 2017 - 03:22, said:

THIS is a situation where you might get a reprieve for TK.  Make a ticket.   Neither of you were at fault but instead the broken physics engine was.

 

On the mention of physics engine tomfoolery, ramming a tank hurts you or them or both. Rammding full 70 kph into an indestructable map object = no damage. Lol.

 

The funny thing about chat bans is that it hampers team communication and actually hurtts team play. There's a lot of things which don't make sense about their ban/punish/track system.



Alterinus #216 Posted Jun 20 2017 - 06:26

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View PostImaKillYou, on Mar 27 2017 - 16:53, said:

dat necro bro

 

Forum etiquette always makes me pissy. On the one hand, you're suppioseldy not suppose to make topis that are clones of each other, because that clutters forums up. So okay, you find an old topic on the same issue, and post in it, bringing it back to life as necro. But thn you're not supposed to necro, so make a new topic on the same issue, thus cluttering forums by making additional threads on the same subject.

 

if duplicate subjects make people mad and people say 'use search first', then all forums just practically close after 5 years and all topics have been discussed. No new threads make, only post in older threads if you have new things to talk about in that specific topic.

 

Humans have strange hypocritical systems.



ket101 #217 Posted Jun 20 2017 - 06:46

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View PostAlterinus, on Jun 20 2017 - 13:03, said:

 

Just as an FYI, you can get in 'double trouble' for tks, assuming you get banned for it once, and then someone reports you through the ticket system. You can also get 'triple trouble' if enough people report you through the HUD system from within the game. The left hand frequently does not know what the right hand is doing.

 

Some wily tricksters will lure you into tking them, and then report you after for the tk, even as you've been banned already by the automated system.

 

Any auto system can be abused.

 

Unlikely.  Support doesn't do any actions on TK tickets.  There's been plenty of people who've complained about that to know that it's true.  They rely on the auto system completely, it's stated in the rules.  If there is "double trouble", then it's for additional activity that isn't the TK.

Longballer #218 Posted Jun 22 2017 - 08:47

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I have had the same player tk me in multiple games managed to get a video of his last assault.
   Should I email that to someone at wargaming I reported him in game but I did last few times as well.  

Zariaah #219 Posted Jun 22 2017 - 17:35

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one suggestion:

 

DON'T SHOOT FRIENDLY TANKS EVER.

 

I see complaints about reasons and physics... ITS ALL AUTOMATED.

 

turn on your auto save. let the player push you around 3-5 times then go drown because you will just get frustrated and shoot him/her.

Copy the replay into the complaint and boom you're done. on to the next match.

 

once again.

 

DON'T SHOOT FRIENDLY TANKS.



KratorofCondor #220 Posted Jun 29 2017 - 22:23

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basic story here guys stop shooting team mates and send in a report. These do work and WG will see who is at fault for what happens. Stop shooting team mates and let the system sort it out. They want to piss you off and by shooting them your giving them what they want. 





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