Jump to content


What is scouting?


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
25 replies to this topic

LonelyGuardian #1 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 06:15

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 20 battles
  • 595
  • Member since:
    01-30-2014

Since we are not all gods among men with 7-perk crews like Tazilon I'm putting this up.

 

Here's my opinion on scouting:

 

ABOVE ALL ELSE: This game needs separate tutorials like how WoWP has its separate tutorials, which means most players in that game have some idea what they're doing. That being said...

 

Scouting in general:

1) There is nothing wrong with being a scout without being a bottom tier tank. Mediums can also scout when needed. Any tank with speed, camo, and view range or some reasonable combination of the above can scout. The Panzer 1 C, Hellcat, T20 and A-43 are good examples of non-scouts that easily serve scout duty, other mediums may find it harder to do so, but no tank cannot scout if need be (even T95s can scout if top tier)

2) Some tanks with scout MM are not necessarily good active scouts, AMX 12t, 13 75 and 13 90 for example are not ideal active scouts for lack of agility and vision compared to the T71. However, they are adequate at bush work, and in late game are assassin tanks. Teh Awfkl. Panther is another tank that is terrible at scouting, period, and should be driven as a combination of distraction, anti-light-tank kinetic kill missile, and flanker.

3) If you are driving a Chaffee or a decent scout (Hellcat, T20, A-43 included) instead of these assassins or moving barns (Awfkl. Panther camo is lower than that of a barn in the middle of Malinovka's field), the points below apply doubly to you.

4) If you're behind an arty that is not suicide-rushing into the enemy, you are doing something very wrong.

 

Passive scouting:

1) you MUST move IMMEDIATELY at match start, go somewhere you expect to be at least 100m in front of the allied battle line, and wait.

2) TELL YOUR TEAM DURING COUNTDOWN WHERE YOU ARE GOING.

3) Be ready to run away if you think you are lit i.e. someone points their gun at you and there isn't a friendly somewhere within about 150m behind you on the same line of fire.

4) Usually this job is for bottom tier mediums or any tier of scout light tank (even if you are mid tier, this can a good way to spend your early game), but anyone with OK camo (i.e. an Obj 416) can do it if no one else will.

5) Do not camp directly in the way of advancing enemies, or even close to directly unless you are sure you have at least 3+ big sticks behind you (1-line bushes near equator of Prokhorovka = OK usually, 2-line = lolnope due to too many bushes making you about as blind as that KV-3 trying to creep along, he'd see you before your TDs could finish him in many cases if you're in teh tree line, potentially blocking TD fire from reaching him)

6) make sure your front end doesn't stick out of the bush.

7) Ideally have the vision skills and binocs + camo net.

8) Ideally try to stay at least 100m in front of allies as they advance, though this doesn't need to apply if they're in a mass of bushes and you have a clear view (read: the westernmost 1-line bushes on Prok see further than tanks in the 2-line road bushes will even if they're right next to you, given the same view range).

9) If you are not bottom tier as a T20 or are top tier as A-43, you probably should not waste your gun scouting like this unless no one else is doing it. Active scouting affords some chances to shoot. Hellcats on the other hand are bush creatures naturally, so tier doesn't matter much. However, a Hellcat firing while passive scouting (mostly only useful when not bottom tier unless slinging APCR at tier 8s) should do so 15m behind a bush, where the bush is no longer transparent in sniper mode.

10) if no one's backing you up, ping, if no one comes, leave that spot and go somewhere else.

11) If your teammates complain about you being idle, check your map and their positions, if you do not meet any of the above criteria, then you probably are idle and should go do something useful, including shooting rear ends, instead of ending up bottom in XP for having 0 damage and 0 spotting.

12) if you twitch, move, or do anything to lose your camo net and binocs barring a stupid teammate bumping you, and you think you have been or may have been lit, RUN. 6th sense, IF you have it, is too slow for the faster-aiming guns often found among higher-tier tanks to not blast you.

 

Active scouting:

1) Always assume you are spotted, never stop moving, particularly if there is arty in the game, and bob and weave irregularly.

2) Always be at least 100-150m in front of your allies while spotting, if you are fading after a spotting run then it's alright to run behind them.

3) Listen to your teammates, especially if they are 2+ tiers higher or are top tier tanks. They have the big sticks that your scout usually cannot match (T71 is an exception) and if you like to win you will cooperate with them as much as possible or at least say "too risky" instead of acting like a lolderp play-to-troll-my-team-and-lose potato.

4) try to get vision skills if you can.

5) Start moving at match start, you might passive for a while but if you active scout you still had to have started early and made sure you have energy to retain while working the spotting line.

6) When popping up and back behind a hill, do not do it in the same spot repeatedly or within intervals of under 10 seconds unless you are VERY good at controlling how much of the top of your turret gets shown.

7) Do not under any circumstances try to claim you are scouting for the team while in the middle of an advancing FRIENDLY battle group of tier 8+ heavies or mediums, if this happens if your own volition (other than fading into friendly lines to scout from a new vector), please go somewhere else to actually scout what they aren't going to see way before you. After the match is over, meditate on the meaning of your existence. Uninstall the game if need be to clear your mind, then meditate again. Ideally you should not not uninstall from life regardless of how badly you fail, "but strive, and in so doing, vex thine enemies" --quote from the 10 Commandments of WoT. Any Chaffee active scouting from the middle of a pack of friendly tier 9 heavies should uninstall.

8) Shooting at the enemy is not a crime if the enemy is distracted, on the other hand, wasting credits while bouncing your SPREM ammunition off an American's turret front or the front of an IS-7 is epic fail. If you are going to shoot while active scouting, shoot those you know you can penetrate, also since you're moving you will want to be quite close while doing said shooting (13 90 gun bloom OTM is atrocious for example). If you are not lit already while scouting, there is no need to fire and expose yourself, but if you are lit, fade away into the distance or cover. If you are lit while the enemy is too busy engaging your team's tanks, you can choose to assassinate a few low-health tanks that you can pen, or empty your clips into anything you can pen if none are at  low health. Bleeding speed means you will die, so try not to turn too much or run into anything during any attack runs (13 90 is notoriously bad at speed bleeding).

9) Never launch an attack run in early game or at clusters of more than about 4 enemy tanks. The only exception is rushing west road on Malinovka standard or if 3+ big friendly guns are pointed at those tanks and can get turret side shots on them.

 

Making this thread because it hurts to watch a Chaffee afk for 20 seconds to start a march, report him, then have him report you right back for "insults" due to you telling the team to report them, then he goes to scout by going onto a hill slope with half the friendly team sitting on it (Prokhorovka) instead of working the middle or bushing the west. It is my hope that some players who cannot scout can learn something from this (the guy I use as an example had 8K games at 46% win rate, his highest tier was a M48 Patton with 18 games and 18% IIRC).

 

So what do you guys think and what would you like to add? Credentials on request (if you're obsessed about stats, you might wanna go harass MAI_WAIFUTRAGER_E75 instead?  At least the content of this post is not troll unlike half of what he/she posts as an alt...)


Edited by LonelyGuardian, Mar 02 2014 - 17:37.


LeTacoMaster14 #2 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 06:20

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 5121 battles
  • 338
  • [M-I-T] M-I-T
  • Member since:
    10-01-2013
post from real account, lets see if your any good at scouting 

Macabe #3 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 06:23

    Major

  • Players
  • 8603 battles
  • 5,211
  • [FGWLF] FGWLF
  • Member since:
    04-28-2011
Im sorry but I wont even attempt to read a rant unless you give us an account proving you know what you're talking about.

HeadSplit120 #4 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 06:38

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 13149 battles
  • 667
  • [RIVEN] RIVEN
  • Member since:
    07-09-2012

View PostMacabe, on Mar 01 2014 - 22:23, said:

Im sorry but I wont even attempt to read a rant unless you give us an account proving you know what you're talking about.

It wasn't much of a rant.  Only the first paragraph may have come close too it.  The rest of the post was actually giving information about how to scout.

 

On another note, maybe you should at least attempt to read a post before making a comment about it.



Macabe #5 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 06:43

    Major

  • Players
  • 8603 battles
  • 5,211
  • [FGWLF] FGWLF
  • Member since:
    04-28-2011

View PostHeadSplit120, on Mar 01 2014 - 21:38, said:

It wasn't much of a rant.  Only the first paragraph may have come close too it.  The rest of the post was actually giving information about how to scout.

 

On another note, maybe you should at least attempt to read a post before making a comment about it.

Ill give you that but credentials would be nice.



Luissen #6 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 06:44

    Captain

  • Players
  • 19545 battles
  • 1,321
  • [REBEL] REBEL
  • Member since:
    12-12-2011
or just read Tazilon's guides.....

LonelyGuardian #7 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 06:49

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 20 battles
  • 595
  • Member since:
    01-30-2014

View PostLuissen, on Mar 02 2014 - 06:44, said:

or just read Tazilon's guides.....

This is the most useful post in this thread so far after my OP.


Edited by LonelyGuardian, Mar 02 2014 - 07:50.


TK_ #8 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 06:51

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 15944 battles
  • 902
  • [SMART] SMART
  • Member since:
    06-07-2012

While I did read it, and think it was decent "mini-guide" on scouting, posting on an alt account with 20 battles is not something ideal. You might want to post from your main where we can actually see what you've accomplished, js.

 

EDIT: Not exactly sure why you're getting neg'd. I'm not going to neg you for making a competent guide.


Edited by TK_, Mar 02 2014 - 06:56.


Hawklaser #9 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 06:53

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 4282 battles
  • 134
  • Member since:
    01-25-2014

Only other thing I can add to this, that comes from experience, is learn where your tanks early game points of no return start, and try and not go past them. As until you know where these points are, it is very easy to round a corner or crest a hill into multiple enemy tanks and every one of their guns is going to start pointing at you.



Shogun__ #10 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 06:53

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 851 battles
  • 25
  • [CARYU] CARYU
  • Member since:
    02-10-2014

Check this out (if this link might help you out) :smile:: http://forum.worldof...low-tier-scout/

I'll see you on the battlefield soon. GOOD LUCK! :honoring:



XJCL #11 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 07:04

    Major

  • Players
  • 15275 battles
  • 6,534
  • Member since:
    08-26-2012
Idk why he's being negged so hard either, seems like valid advice. Only thing I would add is that pure scout tanks are basically for masochists at this point. 

LonelyGuardian #12 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 07:08

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 20 battles
  • 595
  • Member since:
    01-30-2014

View PostXJCL, on Mar 02 2014 - 07:04, said:

Idk why he's being negged so hard either, seems like valid advice. Only thing I would add is that pure scout tanks are basically for masochists at this point. 

.

That's exactly why my 13 90 grind is so on hold that I don't even play it on x3 weekends because it's just exhausting to try to play with 170 pen, terrible acceleration and the inability to circle an ST-I or IS-4 given with his traverse speed versus your speed bleed when turning.

.

And I'm only 95K to the Lorraine too, if the French had a medium trainer I'd free XP it in an instant, at least the Lorraine has a gun that can sometimes pen in the 100mm, regardless of how much the rest of the tank sucks.

.

Thanks for not negging me, some things around here make it impossible to post with credentials to back it up.


Edited by LonelyGuardian, Mar 02 2014 - 07:09.


XJCL #13 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 07:10

    Major

  • Players
  • 15275 battles
  • 6,534
  • Member since:
    08-26-2012

View PostLonelyGuardian, on Mar 02 2014 - 01:08, said:

.

That's exactly why my 13 90 grind is so on hold that I don't even play it on x3 weekends because it's just exhausting to try to play with 170 pen, terrible acceleration and the inability to circle an ST-I or IS-4 given with his traverse speed versus your speed bleed when turning.

.

And I'm only 95K to the Lorraine too, if the French had a medium trainer I'd free XP it in an instant, at least the Lorraine has a gun that can sometimes pen in the 100mm, regardless of how much the rest of the tank sucks.

.

Thanks for not negging me, some things around here make it impossible to post with credentials to back it up.

 

I didn't find 13 90 speed that bad; was definitely better/more fun then Lorraine, which I played like 30 games in and then just free exp'ed.



Icywolf #14 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 07:10

    Captain

  • Players
  • 15547 battles
  • 1,687
  • Member since:
    06-07-2013

Scouting is when you YOLO to the enemy's base. According to players ingame.

 

Scouting is when you spot people. According to guides/forum people.



TK_ #15 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 07:16

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 15944 battles
  • 902
  • [SMART] SMART
  • Member since:
    06-07-2012

View PostXJCL, on Mar 02 2014 - 00:10, said:

 

I didn't find 13 90 speed that bad; was definitely better/more fun then Lorraine, which I played like 30 games in and then just free exp'ed.

 

I couldn't get passed the 13 90. I played 30 games in it and was just like, "Screw this! I'll go up the dang Russian line!" *rage sell* :teethhappy:



XJCL #16 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 07:23

    Major

  • Players
  • 15275 battles
  • 6,534
  • Member since:
    08-26-2012

View PostTK_, on Mar 02 2014 - 01:16, said:

 

I couldn't get passed the 13 90. I played 30 games in it and was just like, "Screw this! I'll go up the dang Russian line!" *rage sell* :teethhappy:

 

How did you get past 12t and 13 75 then? 13 90 much better then those two. 



LonelyGuardian #17 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 07:41

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 20 battles
  • 595
  • Member since:
    01-30-2014

View PostXJCL, on Mar 02 2014 - 07:10, said:

I didn't find 13 90 speed that bad; was definitely better/more fun then Lorraine, which I played like 30 games in and then just free exp'ed.

.

That's why you're in OTTER while I'm in a clan that only makes it to the finals of landings about half the time we try, depending on how many show up. The inter-clip on the 13 90 is 2.73 seconds, too slow for the tank's MM/speed/inability to circle well combo

.

View PostXJCL, on Mar 02 2014 - 07:23, said:

How did you get past 12t and 13 75 then? 13 90 much better then those two. 

.

The others seemed to handle better, or at least met easier enemies, though 144 lolpen was still lol, it was the same as the T-44 85mm I ended up using until I had the turret and the top engine, then stored 19K XP for the LB-1, researching 416 through A-44 instead of the D10T gun just because I didn't want to waste 16K XP and wanted a challenge, T-44-85 really isn't bad to play either! The AMX 13s just get worse acceleration, VASTLY worse gun handling (particularly on 13 90), turn slower and have far less armor than the T-44.



XJCL #18 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 07:48

    Major

  • Players
  • 15275 battles
  • 6,534
  • Member since:
    08-26-2012

View PostLonelyGuardian, on Mar 02 2014 - 01:41, said:

.

That's why you're in OTTER while I'm in a clan that only makes it to the finals of landings about half the time we try, depending on how many show up. The inter-clip on the 13 90 is 2.73 seconds, too slow for the tank's MM/speed/inability to circle well combo

.

.

The others seemed to handle better, or at least met easier enemies, though 144 lolpen was still lol, it was the same as the T-44 85mm I ended up using until I had the turret and the top engine, then stored 19K XP for the LB-1, researching 416 through A-44 instead of the D10T gun just because I didn't want to waste 16K XP and wanted a challenge, T-44-85 really isn't bad to play either! The AMX 13s just get worse acceleration, VASTLY worse gun handling (particularly on 13 90), turn slower and have far less armor than the T-44.

 

Well, I've actually already handed in my resignation to Otter (due to no longer having much time to play this game), but I digress..... 

 

I think what 13 90 has over 13 75 and 12t is much higher clip dmg, which makes it a good scavenger tank. Sure, its gun handling is laughable, but if you can get beside/behind distracted tanks, you can melt their faces in short order. I think the Bat Chat is much more similar to 13 90 then it is to Lorraine or 13 75--basically the entire playstyle is finding creative ways of popping up beside/behind tanks and melting their faces. Fortunately, pen and gun handling are significantly improved; accuracy not so much. Lorr does this too, but it can't do the same early-game things that 13 90 and Bat can, leaving it only the scavenger niche. 

 

I will say that 13 75 and 13 90 have definitely been powercreeped by T71, which is a strictly better 13 75. 


Edited by XJCL, Mar 02 2014 - 08:13.


MX510 #19 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 07:52

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 16512 battles
  • 139
  • Member since:
    03-26-2011
Suicide runs back and forth on the front lines til dead.

HeadSplit120 #20 Posted Mar 02 2014 - 08:23

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 13149 battles
  • 667
  • [RIVEN] RIVEN
  • Member since:
    07-09-2012

View PostIcywolf, on Mar 01 2014 - 23:10, said:

Scouting is when you YOLO to the enemy's base. According to players ingame.

 

Scouting is when you spot people. According to guides/forum people.

I had the chance to meet one of those players.  He was in a T71, charged into the enemy, was destroyed within seconds, and spotted about four or five enemy vehicles.  When I confronted him about his actions, how it was a waste of a good scout tank, I was told that was scouts were suppose to do.  He continued to explain that having done that we now know where they were headed.