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Sela's ban and how this may affect you


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Kramburglar #261 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 05:06

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{lang:macro__view_post}pwspuds, on Mar 08 2014 - 23:00, said:

There is a lot of funny stuff going on in this game, how many have you got shot threw buildings, ground and rocks?

Or get arty without any action preformed get detected? 

I hope World of Tanks keeps finding these cheats.

None of what you are describing is (usually) an issue.  99.9% of shooting through stuff is actually just getting shot from an angle you didn't know you were exposed from, or through windows in buildings.  Also arty can often blindfire to common hiding areas, on certain maps they are almost guaranteed to be occupied by someone



MaverickBlue #262 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 05:06

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{lang:macro__view_post}OneNutMIA, on Mar 08 2014 - 23:23, said:

Yes WG needs a list of banned mods, but better than that, why not incorporate the best ones into the game, and everyone has them, and not allow any others?

 

They already do the later. Where do you think the ability to see chat history, turn of chat, some of the new crosshair central markers, the improved profile stats, and a few of the things they've announced already for the next patch...



MaverickBlue #263 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 05:09

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{lang:macro__view_post}pwspuds, on Mar 09 2014 - 00:00, said:

There is a lot of funny stuff going on in this game, how many have you got shot threw buildings, ground and rocks?

Or get arty without any action preformed get detected? 

I hope World of Tanks keeps finding these cheats.

 

If you read the patch notes, some buildings and all destructible items can be shot through now, and as a glitchy consequence, sometimes rocks can be too. A lot of people are taking advantage of it, if you care to notice at all the people shooting through rocks, but they'll probably fix that bit next patch.

 

Edit: Actually, sorry, it was 8.10 that they introduced it

 

"Added possibility for AP and APCR shells to go through "small" objects: fences, benches, columns, etc. With object penetration, the final armor penetration parameter of the shell will be decreased and the object destroyed"
http://worldoftanks....0-update-notes/

 

Something is messed up tho regarding rocks, downvoting me isn't going to change that reality, people making noise on the forums about it happening might tho.
 


Edited by MaverickBlue, Mar 09 2014 - 05:53.


SCarton #264 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 05:34

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{lang:macro__view_post}MaverickBlue, on Mar 08 2014 - 19:52, said:

Wargaming is a SOFTWARE company that makes GAMES, not a LAW FIRM specializing in contract law. I don't see any other company having problems telling users what they can and can not use in conjunction with the software out of fear that their legal mumbo jumbo will be too specific. In fact, most games try to avoid legal speak entirely when explaining what against the rules, because gamers ARE NOT LAWYERS, and nobody(but YOU) expects them to be. Also, when XVM first started going around, the majority of people were calling it a hack and cheating, and then it gradually grew on people when wargaming told them it was ok. Common sense is subjective, and many people out there still whine about wanting XVM banned, I believe wargaming has stated they have no intention of touching it(considering a third of the player base use it).

 

I bet you they have lawyers on the payroll. If they don't, or at least have one or more on retainer for when they need one, they're nuts.

 

Also, Blizzard has banned people from WoW, including high profile guilds, when and how it suits them, even when they do not break the letter of the law, if they decide that they've overstepped their bounds. This is nothing new, and the butthurt by the guild's fans was similar to what I'm reading here. Thing is, they knew they were exploiting game mechanics to break encounters, and by all indications, sela knew that his mods were at least questionable. I have no idea why anyone is surprised here.


Edited by SCarton, Mar 09 2014 - 05:35.


MaverickBlue #265 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 05:34

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Lol, I don't know why I just got double down-rated for stating the truth. The 8.10 patch notes state that you can shoot through destructible objects. I've also heard reports, only since the patch, of a LOT of people getting shot through rocks. I've barely played since the last update, but a lot of people in my clan have experienced it, I assume it's due to the above changes, and I assume WG will fix their feckup in a patch or two like they always do when they accidentally break things. Downrating my comment isn't going to change reality.  :)

Edited by MaverickBlue, Mar 09 2014 - 06:01.


Data0002 #266 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 05:43

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ok I have looked at the last 14 pages, I play on the EU servers but started playing on here, the way i see it they should of banned him after his stream had finished, not when he was streaming, that's why we have topics like this pop up on here and the EU forums,

 

Also the list of black and white mods should be the same accross all the servers, I don't know how many of you also play on the EU or RU severs, but do you know which mods are ok on here but not on the others, whout hunting around to find out. It's ok posting the banned mods of the Russian forums, but i don't know any Russian, so i never been to their site, so without the likes of all of you how would I know it was banned

 

 



nuclearguy931 #267 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 05:53

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{lang:macro__view_post}leeuniverse, on Mar 08 2014 - 04:43, said:

Tank death locations on mini-map, Falling Trees notification map wide and unspotted Enemy reloading map-wide indicator's have been LONG known to be banned mods.

I'm surprised Sela had them in his pack, he should have known.

 

I hope they don't think my reload indicator is the same.  Mine works only on spotted tanks.

I hope it's not a banned mod, because it's really not that big a deal.  It looks more "perrrty" than anything else, and only used rarely same as enemy gun directions.

It doesn't give that much advantage overall, certainly no different than a zoom in or out mod gives advantage.  It's negligable.


Actually the indicator could be considered a cheat.

 

If you don't have the Eagle Eye perk that shows you what is damaged or crewman injured in the other tank, knowing their re-load speed allows you to know if they have been ammo racked or their loader has been killed. You could say it is a work around of the perk.

 

Any mod right now that tells you something that is not readily available by looking at the mini-map could be considered a cheat.

 

An example of that would be knocked down structures with the arrow indicating which way the tank was travelling, last known position of a tank or even which way the cannon is facing.

 

 



8707 #268 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 06:02

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{lang:macro__view_post}NuRu, on Mar 08 2014 - 14:20, said:

I found out who reported!

 


Probably was you who reported him,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,



Treetop64 #269 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 06:12

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Product includes folder for users to manually install mods, with a readme in the folder stating this.

 

Users get banned for using mods.

 

:trollface:

 



nuclearguy931 #270 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 06:24

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http://ftr.wot-news....d-for-mods-use/

MIDNIGHTFENRIR #271 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 06:36

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{lang:macro__view_post}RingYourBell, on Mar 09 2014 - 00:01, said:

Geee some  -G- was using a ** banned ** Mod Pac,,

 

-G- who woulda guessed Purples would cheat

 

-G- I hope WG picks out more of the stats  padding cheaters using BANNED Mod pac

 

-G- I hope they were the ones who were always trolling me saying * L2P,*, ** Learn to Aim**,, **Your the constant**


HAHAHAHAHHAHA o lord the ignorance is strong in this one



Memnoch1 #272 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 10:08

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{lang:macro__view_post}scyorkie, on Mar 08 2014 - 15:09, said:

 

1. As I have explained, both whitelists and blacklists can be gamed, IMO. I'd rather resources be spent on issues like botting.

 

2. The envelope is defined via the EULA, Terms of Service, and Developers' Rules. Just because many players say it is unclear, does not make it so. See also point 3 below.

 

3. The Developers' Rules do apply to players, in that they help interpret what constitutes cheating and hacking. See my response to your post in a separate thread: http://forum.worldof...74#entry6740774

 

 

4. See above, points 2 and 3. The problem is that WG cannot accurately predict what sort of mods will be created in the future, so the best they can do is to list the forbidden functions they can come up with presently, and which they have done. Also, I don't think anyone can seriously argue that WG's drafting is nebulous, since many appear to have little difficulty in identifying the offending parts of the mod pack in question.

 

 

If you read the EULA it is the sole discretion of WN as to what constitutes cheating and hacking, not the player base.  Also the EULA never once mentions rules set forth by WN in the developer room.  What you have stated is a massive stretch that any politician would be proud of.  In fact if what you state by the player base helps WN determine what is and is not cheats and hacks then it would also mean the player base helps WN determine what should and should not be allowed in the game content or would this be a far stretch?

 

Simply put why would a player who is not a developer nor has any interest in developing go to the developers room?  I have been playing this game for more then 2 years and today is the first time i have ever gone to the developers room  and that was only because of the current situation at hand. 

 

All everyone wants is for WN to be clear on what constitutes a banned mod and add it to the EULA. There is no need for whitelist/blacklist, all that is needed is to add the same wording in the developers room rules to the EULA. This can be done with simple text in section 2 of the EULA or by adding a link in section 2 of the EULA which would take the player to a of list banned mod descriptions/functions. Personally a link to the forum would be the better option since it could easily updated as required and also give players a specific area to report mods that may be considered cheating for WN to look into.  Section 2B of the EULA could read like this:

 

B. Use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the World of Tanks experience; For a current list of banned mod  descriptions and functions click "here"

 

 

 


Edited by Memnoch1, Mar 09 2014 - 10:14.


leeuniverse #273 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 12:36

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{lang:macro__view_post}moon111, on Mar 08 2014 - 20:38, said:

Is there really any difference between dead white tanks and a colour blind mod?  

 

Yes....  But what you should be asking is there any difference between Dead White Tanks and "Tank Skins".?  Nope.

They are both tank skins.

 

Some of us have tried to make clear for those in this thread that the DEVELOPER Rules apply to the games API development and manipulation.

As well that there has been a White Death Mod thread at the EU forum for over a year, and moderators have responded to the issue as well saying it IS an allowed mod.

It has nothing to do with "skins", nor anything to do with "users" using skins such as white death.

But, people simply won't listen and try to get people banned like me when some vindictive in this thread reported my mod pack and the thread was auto-removed.

 

:(



Lundqvist #274 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 14:02

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lmbo, busted hard.  And anybody that thinks that the mods he was using wasn't cheating is a special kind of stupid.

 

The look on his face when he got booted off the server on the livestream is priceless.


Edited by Lundqvist, Mar 09 2014 - 14:02.


scyorkie #275 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 14:11

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{lang:macro__view_post}Memnoch1, on Mar 09 2014 - 10:08, said:

If you read the EULA it is the sole discretion of WN as to what constitutes cheating and hacking, not the player base.  Also the EULA never once mentions rules set forth by WN in the developer room.  What you have stated is a massive stretch that any politician would be proud of.  

 

Yes it is WG and not the player base that determines what constitutes cheating and hacking. It makes plenty of sense to me. Did I ever state otherwise?

 

The EULA doesn't contain cater for every eventuality - it is impossible if you want to keep the document comprehensible and of a reasonable length. I have tried to explain in a previous post how drafting a legal document can be tricky. It is also not uncommon that, in a legal dispute, reference is made to multiple documents in order to determine how the dispute is to be resolved. At the end of the day, and also as previously stated, there appears to me sufficient justification for WG to have taken the actions discussed in these threads. And I am not the only one who has formed this opinion, legal training or not.

 

{lang:macro__view_post}Memnoch1, on Mar 09 2014 - 10:08, said:

In fact if what you state by the player base helps WN determine what is and is not cheats and hacks then it would also mean the player base helps WN determine what should and should not be allowed in the game content or would this be a far stretch?

 

I will reiterate that no one here is helping WG to determine whether a mod should be considered illegal. I am navigating the documentation to explain how I would make sense of them.

 

{lang:macro__view_post}Memnoch1, on Mar 09 2014 - 10:08, said:

Simply put why would a player who is not a developer nor has any interest in developing go to the developers room?  I have been playing this game for more then 2 years and today is the first time i have ever gone to the developers room  and that was only because of the current situation at hand. 

All everyone wants is for WN to be clear on what constitutes a banned mod and add it to the EULA. There is no need for whitelist/blacklist, all that is needed is to add the same wording in the developers room rules to the EULA. This can be done with simple text in section 2 of the EULA or by adding a link in section 2 of the EULA which would take the player to a of list banned mod descriptions/functions. Personally a link to the forum would be the better option since it could easily updated as required and also give players a specific area to report mods that may be considered cheating for WN to look into. 

 

I strongly suspect that after his incident, WG may decide to amend its documentation to make the issue crystal clear. This can be done in a multitude of ways, such as (i) amending the EULA to specifically define what mods can or cannot do, (ii) amending the EULA to make specific reference to relevant provisions of the Developers' Rules and thereby incorporating the effect of those provisions, and/or (iii) maintaining a whitelist or blacklist, amongst others. I am personally interested to see how WG will decide to approach this issue.

 

At the end of the day, I believe most would agree that there will be an improvement in the situation after these recent incidents.



leeuniverse #276 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 14:13

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Actually you're a special kind of stupid to think that most of the mods in question actually give some sort of "unfair" advantage.

They don't.  For those of us who use them and play the game, we actually know.  What "seems" isn't always truth.

 

BTW, people might be interested to know that a "Ban List" IS coming.....

 

http://forum.worldof...56#entry6744656



Red_Lotus #277 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 14:14

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OHH NO!!  A clan using an illegal mod?  Say it isn't so.

Lundqvist #278 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 14:18

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{lang:macro__view_post}leeuniverse, on Mar 09 2014 - 09:13, said:

Actually you're a special kind of stupid to think that most of the mods in question actually give some sort of "unfair" advantage.

They don't.  For those of us who use them and play the game, we actually know.  What "seems" isn't always truth.

 

BTW, people might be interested to know that a "Ban List" IS coming.....

 

http://forum.worldof...56#entry6744656

 

So seeing trees falling on the minimap is ok in your book?  Please dont have any children, the world doesnt need anymore idiots.


Edited by Lundqvist, Mar 09 2014 - 14:19.


atomskytten #279 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 15:04

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Well if Sela bothered to read the EULA he would have known that his mods were illegal and not to mention that he actively advocated their use - it is only a matter of applying common sense.

 

Ban completely justified.



leeuniverse #280 Posted Mar 09 2014 - 15:12

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{lang:macro__view_post}Lundqvist, on Mar 09 2014 - 07:18, said:

 

So seeing trees falling on the minimap is ok in your book?  Please dont have any children, the world doesnt need anymore idiots.

 

No....  I didn't say "all".....

 

And if you had read this thread, my first post in it stated that he should have known not to have included "some" of the mods he does because they are CLEARLY known to be banned!

Learn to read....  thus you are the one who shouldn't have children.  And my children are wonderful highly moraled good boys jerkwad!  So good they even know Rap is of evil.  Can you say the same?






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