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The historical information of WZ-111 and suggestion of 2nd Chinese HT branch

WZ111 113 Chinese heavy tank 112

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lujunlin001 #1 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 04:50

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Many of you may curious about the information of WZ-111 and as many player said ,the tier 10 Chinese heavy 113 is under powered. So how about replace the tank with the “WZ-111 5A”? Is it a historical plan or just made up by WG?

Let’s compare the WZ-111 in WOT and the historical WZ-111 project and we’ll get the answer

 

“WZ-111 1-4”in WOT 

Weight                  45t
Main Armament    130mm 59-130T --------- modified Type 59 130mm field gun ,with lighter weight and shorter barrel 
Ammo capacity     40 rounds
Engine                 12150L series  
Speed                  50km/h
Hp/t ratio              13.33hp/t

b_large_JgMF_52d4000032a21262.jpg

Summary of Historical WZ-111 project

Weight                           46t
Main Armament             122mm Y174 
Secondary Armament   12.7mm AA gun  &  7.62 coaxial machine gun
Ammo capacity             32 122mm shells 
                                     500 12.7mm shells
                                      2500 7.62mm shells
Engine                         an engine based on V-54 design (750hp)
Speed                           50km/h
Hp/t ratio                       16.33hp/t (or 12KW/t)
Ground pressure           75.1 Kpa 
Length (Gun forward)       10.625m
Width                              3.3m
Height                            2.497m

 

Development history

After Type-59 entered mass production in 1958, the development of light tank and heavy tank became another important mission of Chinese national defense industrial.The Central Military Commission think in order the defend enemy's heavy tank "We not only need large numbers of light tank but also needs to produce some heavy tank to defend enemy armoured forces"(我军除了应装备大量的轻型和中型坦克以外,也应配备一定数量的重型坦克,用以对付敌人的坦克兵团或执行其他突击任务)"Heavy tank plays an important role in tank warfare,the research of heavy tank should started as soon as possible"(重型坦克是当时装甲装备体系中的重要配套装备,为完善我军装甲装备结构,重型坦克应当尽早着手研制。)

 

October 19th,1960,the order of WZ-111 heavy tank were place by The Commission of Science, Technology, and Industry for National Defense(国防科工委),The plan was revised by Commission of technology of tanks(装甲兵技术部)at December 24th,1960.After that the research of WZ-111 started.In March 1963, the plan was revised again by 国防科工委 again.June 10th 1964,the final plan were made by University of Tank Technology(装甲兵工程学院) In 1965, one prototype(without turret) were made.Later in same year the the prototype of the gun and turret were made but didn't tested on the vehicle.

 

After the prototype were made,the test of the vehicle were started immediately. The test mainly focused on the construction of the chassis  and suspension.Fine the problem of the design that didn't found by engineers. 

 

After the test, the research was going to the next stage but the research of main battle tank were started.The Commission of Science, Technology, and Industry for National Defense think the development of new anti-tank weapon(smooth bore gun,APFSDS) made heavy tank no longer important on the modern battlefield.The development of WZ-111 were discontinued.But the development of WZ-111 became an important experience for Chinese designers.And some of the design were used on other tanks later.  

 

Armament
The main gun on WZ-111 is a 122mm gun --- Y174 , which based on a field gun (Type 60?), it is hard to find the detailed information about this gun.But according to the 《WZ111重型坦克设计技术任务书》 the fire power of the gun should be the same as soviet M62 tank gun.

In addition , the gun has advanced hydraulic gun stabilizer , an autoloader (the source text is “链式输弹机”not sure if “autoloader” is a accurate translation because autoloader is 自动装弹机 in Chinese)(Okay,I searched some explanation of the 链式输弹机, it is autoloader) ,an active illumination night vision observation device with a electric rangefinder and aiming system which can make it hit the target at 1 kilometer accurately.


Mobility 
Although the WZ-111 is a heavy tank the mobility of the tank is still very good. 

The engine of the tank is a Chinese locally developed supercharger engine based on V-54 engine.It has 750 hp ,which is the best tank engine in China in early 1960s. The hp/t ratio of the tank is higher than Type 59 and Type 69,even just slightly lower than the Type 88 MBT. Later, the engine became the basis of WZ-122 and 68G experimental tank’s 650hp engine.

In order to let the tank have the capability to move in bad road condition,the suspension of the tank is wide in order to reduce the ground pressure. As a result , the ground pressure of WZ-111 is very low , only 75.1 Kpa ,lower than Type 59’s 79.6Kpa and Type 69’s 80.2Kpa ,nearly same as a light tank’s ground pressure. And as the size of WZ-111 isn’t very big it can easily move on complex terrain easily just like medium tank.

 

WZ-111 is also the first produced Chinese tank using hydraulic vehicle control system. 

The Hydraulic vehicle control system and Air-cooling/waste gas emission system(not sure how to translate the “废气引射冷却装置”)

 

Protection
I did n’t translate this part because you already know how’s the armor design of the tank.

But in fact the thickness of the frontal lower plate is 130mm ,but not well angled.
And it’s interesting that WZ-111 also has NBC protection and a landmine detecter(but it is not very effective according the writer) 

 

 

 

It’s evident that there’s differences between the WZ-111 1-4 in WOT and the historical WZ-111 project.The historical WZ-111 has a 122mm instead of the 130mm tank gun. Has a better engine and slightly heavier. An autoloader and better optics as well.

 

 WZ-111 in WOT might be the tested prototype of WZ-111 produced in 1960s and it's further development plan which has a 130mm gun

 


WZ-111 tested prototype (WZ-111重型坦克试验车)

Weight               About 44t
Engine               12150L (520hp) the 750hp engine still had many technical problem when the prototype were built so it only has a 12150L engine 
Speed                35km/h
Ground pressure        71.9kpa
Armament             The Y174 122mm and turret wasn’t finished when the vehicle were produced (later the turret and gun were made and tested but unfortunately there is no test result nor photos preserved) and as the 122mm Y174’s progress were slow an 130mm gun also planned.(Or mabe the 122mm Y174 wasn’t as good as PLA expected?)

 

 

 


So WZ-111 can be divided into three tank in WOT 


Tier 8 Premium WZ-111(Experimental)or WZ111 tested prototype (WZ-111重型坦克试验车) yes , i know there is a premium WZ-111 already but it totally plays like 112. So there is reason to change it.

 

Armament    122mm Y-174 prototype ( based on the guess that the tested Y174 isn’t as good as PLA expected)
Penetration    237/300/61 (AP/HEAT/HE)
Damage          440/440/530
ROF              3.8rpm (Not sure if the produced turret had autoloader or not)
Accuracy       0.44
Aim time         3.4s
Elevation       -5/17

Engine          12150L      520hp

Speed           35km/h

Weight           44t

Will see tier 10 tanks

 


As for the 2nd HT branch solution……

The tier 9 112(1963) heavy tank is the improved version of 112, as a heavy tank totally based on Type 59. The gun that can be mounted in WZ-120(type-59’s) can also be mounted in 112’s turret without any problem. It can also use other 12150L engines or the V-54-SC

If WG dont want to copy a premium tank ,there's another choice

111/112

A hybrid of WZ-111 and 112 ,have more reliable normal upper plate but using WZ-111's suspension,transmission system and turret design.A cooperation between The Commission of Science, Technology, and Industry for National Defense (国防科工委)and North University of China (中北大学)in order to deal the WZ-111's frontal armor quality problem. No prototype were made.

 

 

 

And tier 10s. 113 have to be changed to make 2 tank different 
So ....
113
Nerf the hit point to 2100 (This heavy medium has higher HP than a 70t super heavy tank really sounds ridiculous)
Reduce the ground resistance (The 113 is smaller and lighter than WZ-111 and it has large dimeter road wheel suspension which is better than WZ-111’s suspension on complex terrain) 
Buff the aim speed and accuracy(to medium tank level)
Buff the speed 

 

Tier 10 WZ-111 
Hit point                   2150      
Weight                     46t
Main Armament       122mm Y174 
          Penetration        251/340/68
          Damage             440/440/530
          ROF                   6.3rpm
          Accuracy       0.35
          Aim speed     2.6
          Elevation       -5/18
Ammo capacity        32 rounds 
Engine               V-54 (super charger)(750hp)
Speed                50km/h
Hp/t ratio             16.33hp/t 
Armor              Have thicker frontal upper plate ,and LOWER PLATE(According to the plan the thickness of the FLP is 130mm thick but don't have much angle) other sides are much worse than other tier 10 heavy  and you cant angle the armor (and it has a huge lower plate weak spot) so the tank isn’t over powered

 

An interesting technical drawing sent to WG by KZW (WG's Chinese partner , most of Chinese tank's blue prints were found by this company with the help of Chinese military forums like Tiexue and lt.cjdby.net)


Reference
《坦克装甲车辆》2006年第2期 -------中国北方车辆研究所
《欲与天公试比高----中国研制的WZ-111重型坦克》-------- 孔凡清 将言 王丽琴
《兵器》杂志--------《兵器》杂志编辑部

 

External links
http://wenku.baidu.c...RvD6Ph1fyrfFrdS    

http://zhan.renren.c...50&checked=true

http://bbs.tiexue.ne..._5903850_1.html

http://www.mdc.idv.t.../army/wz111.htm

http://bbs.tiexue.ne..._5138863_1.html

 

 

 

:mellow:Well..... should i repost this topic in other section(like tank Comparison or History)because most of the content of the topic is about history instead of gameplay? 

 

Edit 2014/3/11 : picture link fixed

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Edited by lujunlin001, Mar 12 2014 - 04:24.


JubeiXL #2 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 04:52

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That is a strong +1 for the effort you put into this, well done.

Tupinambis #3 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 04:58

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This is actually quite similar to something that I wrote not long ago:

forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/324369-suggestion-for-new-high-tier-chinese-heavies

 

But yours is a lot more detailed, so +1



I_IDOSXX #4 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 05:03

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Eh... I don't think they will... just too much work

NOS4A2 #5 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 05:33

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+1for a very nice post! I should mention though that (for me at least) all of your photos are appearing as a little Asian boy in a Santa hat making "prayer hands" so.... yeah. Still a nice tank though.

 

I also like that this leaves room for variety. If pursuing Chinese tanks, one could choose the medium line ending in the 121, a medium-heavy hybrid (113) or a purely heavy line (WZ-111). This makes sense since the 113 plays completely different than the tanks that preceded it. 



007Infinitemortal #6 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 05:33

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I cannot see those pictures... As in it says something in Chinese like "this picture is not avaliable" and it also has a Chinese boy praying.

lujunlin001 #7 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 05:36

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View Post007Infinitemortal, on Mar 11 2014 - 06:33, said:

I cannot see those pictures... As in it says something in Chinese like "this picture is not avaliable" and it also has a Chinese boy praying.

 I am going to fix it as soon as possible

OK ,i tried to fix them ,are those pictures fixed now?


Edited by lujunlin001, Mar 11 2014 - 05:39.


TK3600 #8 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 05:40

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WZ111-5 was here, but were remove from test for being OP.

Edited by TK3600, Mar 11 2014 - 06:46.


TK3600 #9 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 05:45

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What is their armor? Can't see the picture.

soluuloi #10 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 05:50

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Hot link? -1 for you.

 



lujunlin001 #11 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 05:51

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View PostTK3600, on Mar 11 2014 - 06:45, said:

What is their armor? Can't see the picture.

hmm... Can you try to refresh the page? I should fixed those links already.



007Infinitemortal #12 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 06:11

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View Postlujunlin001, on Mar 11 2014 - 17:36, said:

 I am going to fix it as soon as possible

OK ,i tried to fix them ,are those pictures fixed now?

No sorry, it must be something to do with where I live. Anyways... It's now a qq ad.



lujunlin001 #13 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 06:33

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View Post007Infinitemortal, on Mar 11 2014 - 07:11, said:

No sorry, it must be something to do with where I live. Anyways... It's now a qq ad.

No,that's my fault . I should choose other web sites ... I tried to fixed some.of them.others I ll tried to fix them tomorrow morning



TK3600 #14 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 06:47

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http://s1273.photobucket.com/

 

Host them here.



lujunlin001 #15 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 06:52

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View PostTK3600, on Mar 11 2014 - 07:47, said:

http://s1273.photobucket.com/

 

Host them here.

Thanks for your suggestion :)



Tabardar #16 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 06:53

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Very nice

vonluckner #17 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 12:02

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Interesting post. Would be nice to see the non-American/German/Soviet trees fleshed out a little more.

Thorthemighty #18 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 13:23

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I do have to admit you have done your homework.

deathaddict #19 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 13:32

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View Postlujunlin001, on Mar 10 2014 - 23:50, said:

 

 


Tier 8 Premium WZ-111(Experimental)or WZ111 tested prototype (WZ-111重型坦克试验车) yes , i know there is a premium WZ-111 already but it totally plays like 112. So there is reason to change it.

 

Armament    122mm Y-174 prototype ( based on the guess that the tested Y174 isn’t as good as PLA expected)
Penetration    237/300/61 (AP/HEAT/HE)
Damage          440/440/530
ROF              3.8rpm (Not sure if the produced turret had autoloader or not)
Accuracy       0.44
Aim time         3.4s
Elevation       -5/17

Engine          12150L      520hp

Speed           35km/h

Weight           44t

Will see tier 10 tanks

 

 

237 base pen/300 with heat and 440 Alpha? on a tier 8 premium tank What.? How would this tank compare to the T34? 



lujunlin001 #20 Posted Mar 11 2014 - 16:11

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View Postdeathaddict, on Mar 11 2014 - 14:32, said:

 

237 base pen/300 with heat and 440 Alpha? on a tier 8 premium tank What.? How would this tank compare to the T34? 

Both of them have very high alpha but low DPM. T34 have much thicker turret armor and accuracy , WZ-111(E) has better hull armor, better mobility(low ground pressure)  ,and better alpha.







Also tagged with WZ111, 113, Chinese, heavy tank, 112

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