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Skirmish 11

Skirmish 11

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scyorkie #41 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 04:16

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Check this out - Group 4's points total from Round 3:

 

Burn All Empires - 198 (6 wins)

saqueadores - 165 (5 wins)

SaVaGeZ - 132 (4 wins)

Scrubs United Baddie Brigade - 99 (3 wins)

VX9 - 66 (2 wins)

Furs and Friends - 33 (1 win)

Volga and friends - 0

 

http://worldoftanks....318876-Group_4/



Kalis #42 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 05:02

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View PostBianca_strega28, on Mar 26 2014 - 02:22, said:

Well stated, Kalis.  I meant no offense to your team-mate. Again, the rest of us non uber clans do not fault you for being good.  That being said, a vast majority of the gold resources available through various competitions funnel up to you uber clans.  Any change in tournament format that discourages your teams from entering is good for us.  If that means we have to sacrifice our time and play late in order to enter tourneys that you won't be in due to format, well, then at LEAST we have a fighting chance among our peer group.  You are not our peer group.  And that is a huge problem for about 80% of the clans on here.

 

Allow me to reiterate - we do not fault the uber clans for being good.  I would just like my clan to compete in a group of our peers.  I do not think that is too much to ask of WOT.  Any organized sport (and if you check our website, we approach this as a sport) has clearly defined levels of play based on skill.  The WGLNA is based on such levels, albeit the teams compete for seeding.  We hope to be in the open league some summer season and are gearing up for that.  I'd like to see the same approach in tournament play.  Instead - we have very slim chances of turning a profit to reinvest in crew training, converting XP or retaining premium accounts.  The rest we can pay for by grinding credits.  For many of us - tourney play is the only chance we have at gold.

 

I get that WOT needs revenue streams - I have a personal budget assigned to this hobby that I use for clan rewards to help the promising tankers in our clan.  But all WOT has to do to give just a little encouragement to developing clans is adjust a few more tournament formats to allow us to play against our peers and not you.  I believe that if they did that, they would see their revenue stream actually increase. Far more of an incentive for teams to compete more, maybe throw their paypal accounts into this game a little more often to retain those premium accounts - knowing that they actually would have a chance at coming out with some gold.

 

Just a few points I would mention Bianca:

- clan wars does not make that much gold per player per week.  With the revolt system, even top tier groups can only earn like 10-15K per day due to how few territories you can now hold..  Divide that share by say... 80 active players, and you're talking 125-250 gold per day, or 875-1750 per week (assuming equal shares - but commanders and such generally get more).

Even in the best case scenario, 15,000 * 7 days / 50 players = 2100g/active member per week.

 

- Skirmishes has always been the most effective way of earning gold for truly good teams.  If you can consistently rank in the top 4, you're earning lots of gold, much more than clan wars would provide.  Furthermore, when league play is active, most of the competition actually disappears from the skirmish format because the time of league matches interferes with skirmish matches (I only run a skirmish team in between seasons).  This makes getting ranked much easier.

 

- Finally, the new format lets even the non top teams earn a solid amount of gold for participating.  Looking at the alpha prizes:

Group Play

  • Top 10%: 5,000
  • Top 11% - 20%: 2,500
  • Top 21% - 30%: 1,000
  • Top 31% - 40%: 750
  • Top 41% - 50%: 500

 

Alpha Playoff

  • 1st place: 5,000
  • 2nd place: 2,000
  • 3rd & 4th place: 1,000
  • 5th place - 8th place: 500
  • 9th place - 16th place: 250

 

To advance into alpha, you need to be top 50% in group play which means 500gold minimum.

The playoffs split you into brackets of 16, and even 9th-16th get an additional 250.

 

So your minimum payment is 750 (500+250) as long as you're top 50%.

Top 40% would generally be 750 + 250/500 for 1000/1250.

Being top 30% would be 1000+500 or 1000 for 1500/2000.

And top 20% would be 2500 + 500/1000/2500 for anywhere from 3000/4000/5000.

And then generally the top 10% would get 5000 + 1000/2500/5000 for 6000/7500/10000.

 

This seems like a very reasonable prize layout to me.  You're basically matching clan wars payouts as long as you're in the top 50%.  Play this 4x/month, and even the top 50% teams earn enough gold to pay for their monthly premium.

 

Even if you fail to be top 50%... well if you can do well in the bravo playoffs you can still make a decent amount of gold (luck of draw depending on whether you face other bravo teams, or teams that signed up for weekend tournament only).

 

I would argue that to expect higher payouts than this is being ridiculous, and I don't think WGing has any obligation to pay developing teams prizes that top teams are earning.

Should they get gold: yes.  But this new skirmish format provides pretty good chance to give gold.

 

This skirmish 11 had 162 teams signup.  That means 81 teams are going to alpha for a minimum 750 prize...

 

- Final point: imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.  The fact that skirmishes lets you face some of the best teams on the server is an opportunity.  Watch the replays.  See what strategy they ran.  Maybe it's worth stealing the strategy and making it your own!  To be blunt about it, I personally believe WGing is seriously trying to increase skill on the NA server.  That's why they (more or less) eliminated the 'casual' style tournaments, and instead created this skirmish layout with it's massive gold prize structure (along with the weekend Preseason tournaments).  It's high enough that it has drawn in a lot of gold/silver league teams to compete, which will let other dedicated developing teams (who are willing to play everyday but wednesday) get the opportunity to learn from the 'pro' teams', but also get a decent prize for their time commitment.

 

That is one way to improve your team in a strategic sense, although individual tanking ability & teamwork (tactics) will still need development.

 

As a side note, while most of my team's losses in skirmish group stages have been due to our own carelessness / testing of strategies in preparation for the playoffs, that was 1 match where we got utterly shocked by a mid-level team that ran a counter-strategy against what we did.  We had faced them previously in the group stage, and they clearly had learned from that and beat us, which was impressive.



vonluckner #43 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 05:17

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The only problem I see is that the payouts for participating in the playoffs are't really worth your time unless you know you're going to make it to the quarterfinals... especially if the preseason is going to happen at the same time.



_ProPenguin #44 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 05:30

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View Postscyorkie, on Mar 26 2014 - 20:16, said:

Check this out - Group 4's points total from Round 3:

 

Burn All Empires - 198 (6 wins)

saqueadores - 165 (5 wins)

SaVaGeZ - 132 (4 wins)

Scrubs United Baddie Brigade - 99 (3 wins)

VX9 - 66 (2 wins)

Furs and Friends - 33 (1 win)

Volga and friends - 0

 

http://worldoftanks....318876-Group_4/

Everyone's gumma be jelly 'bout our 198 points



Moguai #45 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 05:31

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View Postvonluckner, on Mar 26 2014 - 21:17, said:

The only problem I see is that the payouts for participating in the playoffs are't really worth your time unless you know you're going to make it to the quarterfinals... especially if the preseason is going to happen at the same time.

How is it not worth it? you just played roughly 6hrs in the 3 group stages to get possibly 5k gold. Now the playoff rounds are ~30min each so going all the way (~2.5hrs) you can get 5k gold. Don't know but that seems like more bang for your buck to me.



vonluckner #46 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 06:24

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View PostMoguai, on Mar 27 2014 - 05:31, said:

How is it not worth it? you just played roughly 6hrs in the 3 group stages to get possibly 5k gold. Now the playoff rounds are ~30min each so going all the way (~2.5hrs) you can get 5k gold. Don't know but that seems like more bang for your buck to me.

 

Did you not read my entire post?

 

If you're a mid-level team that's not going to make it to the quarterfinals then it's not really worth it considering it's at the same time as the preseason which is more salient tournament experience for most of us.

 

It's easy to get top 10% when you're in the wild, it's much harder to be #1 once the competition is distilled down to top level teams.

 

For a team that isn't in the running for being the best, time is better spent skipping the finals and playing the preseason tournament. Get top 10% in the preseason and your team earns 10000 gold.



Bianca_strega28 #47 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 06:29

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LOL Great post Kalis - but I was arguing to KEEP this format not against.  As your point argues - this format is great for us. The knockout styles are not.  I don't disagree that playing better teams is a good thing and I prefer to watch replays where you have beaten someone ELSE'S team not mine and preferably another uber clan or semi-uber clan where we can REALLY see one of your strat's play out.  As you have pointed out - you often beat teams like mine in a couple of minutes - so having that happen to us time and time again in the first round of a knockout tournament teaches us nothing aside from coming up with better pagan-dancing-naked-around-our-monitors-while-sacrificing- live chickens-in-hopes-of-not-drawing-you-first-round ceremonies.

 

Part of our training is analyzing replays and always happy to watch one from your clan.  Thanks for your post.  That must have taken some time to do.



twitchtvCommanda0 #48 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 06:54

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If the goal for this is increasing the general skill level by allowing teams to play their betters then I think a place to submit replays after each tourney is said and done would be a good idea. I would love to see how teams interpreted the tier rules and maps as a player who unfortunately was not able to take part in this tourney. It would also provide much needed insight on tank choices and positions in these non standard formats to teams who would not have a chance to fight the 'best' teams.

HoneyRider #49 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 08:36

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArSJ5_RWGDrjdEZCZTRDdUdUS0tqS1h0dl9RYldZRkE&usp=sharing

 

For anyone interested in standings for Skirmish 11, the above is a spreadsheet I keep for our clan tourneys.  So - warning - informal - and NOT WOT official.  Not sure how they will handle the uneven % applied to 162 teams.  But a general gist of where you are.

 

Congrats to the top 81



Moguai #50 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 11:30

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View PostHoneyRider, on Mar 27 2014 - 00:36, said:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArSJ5_RWGDrjdEZCZTRDdUdUS0tqS1h0dl9RYldZRkE&usp=sharing

 

For anyone interested in standings for Skirmish 11, the above is a spreadsheet I keep for our clan tourneys.  So - warning - informal - and NOT WOT official.  Not sure how they will handle the uneven % applied to 162 teams.  But a general gist of where you are.

 

Congrats to the top 81

 

Tie breakers are only for those teams on the 50% bubble for those on the 10% bubble they get the gold for the higher %.

 

I also suggest using Microsoft Onedrive over Google docs as they use a online version of MS Excel that doesnt lose some formatting if uploading a sheet and functions much more like the regular Excel. Plus they give you more storage space.



Moguai #51 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 11:33

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View Postvonluckner, on Mar 26 2014 - 22:24, said:

 

Did you not read my entire post?

 

If you're a mid-level team that's not going to make it to the quarterfinals then it's not really worth it considering it's at the same time as the preseason which is more salient tournament experience for most of us.

 

It's easy to get top 10% when you're in the wild, it's much harder to be #1 once the competition is distilled down to top level teams.

 

For a team that isn't in the running for being the best, time is better spent skipping the finals and playing the preseason tournament. Get top 10% in the preseason and your team earns 10000 gold.

You don't have to play in both tourny's. Also our team doesn't have major issues with doing both, it just takes some planning and knowing everyone's availability. 



PunCzarBlintz #52 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 14:48

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The Folks at [NET] appreciate the new Skirmish format.

The group stages let us play random groups that have been interesting.

Some battles we get stomped, other battles we stomp, and others have been just plain close and exciting.

 

We at [NET] are finding we are just what we think we are, "Slightly Over Average Players (SOAP)".

BTW we are recruiting folks who are SOAP.

 

We got 1750 gold in Skirmish 10, we may get that again in this one... either way, we are having a blast,

(even if my average cost per battle is 40-50k credits).

 

Keep up the good work WG.



c911darkwolf #53 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 16:09

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Woot!  

 

We placed high enough to get 250g in St. Patty's and looks like were getting 750g for Skirm 11.  

 

Will see you guys in the playoffs and again on monday!

 

Free Gold = Bestest Gold



winterWinner1 #54 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 17:04

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View PostBianca_strega28, on Mar 27 2014 - 07:29, said:

teaches us nothing aside from coming up with better pagan-dancing-naked-around-our-monitors-while-sacrificing- live chickens-in-hopes-of-not-drawing-you-first-round ceremonies.

 

 

Dear Bianca:

Please post the recommended procedures for the above-mentioned ceremony :trollface:. It could come in handy during the playoffs.  lmbo 



Katoleras #55 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 18:23

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Hey dance, we are ranked 17th for this skirmish.

162 team participated meaning 10%= 16.2

Do we qualify for the grand prize? Or is it going to be 2.5k :(



Elost #56 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 18:26

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View Postc911darkwolf, on Mar 27 2014 - 16:09, said:

Woot!  

 

We placed high enough to get 250g in St. Patty's and looks like were getting 750g for Skirm 11.  

 

Will see you guys in the playoffs and again on monday!

 

Free Gold = Bestest Gold


I've fired far too many premium rounds to consider it Free Gold D:

But still, far better than emptying the rest of my wallet into the game


Edited by CaptH4x, Mar 27 2014 - 18:27.


mrtk56 #57 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 20:04

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View PostKatoleras, on Mar 27 2014 - 18:23, said:

Hey dance, we are ranked 17th for this skirmish.

162 team participated meaning 10%= 16.2

Do we qualify for the grand prize? Or is it going to be 2.5k :(

 

On subject of  gold, is it the top 10% teams that get 5k so top 16 / 17 or is it teams that achieve top 10% of the total possible pts (90% or above) that get 5k?


Edited by mrtk56, Mar 27 2014 - 20:06.


_ProPenguin #58 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 20:06

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View Postmrtk56, on Mar 27 2014 - 12:04, said:

On subject of  gold, is it the top 10% teams that get 5k so top 16 / 17 or is it teams that achieve 90% of the total possible pts (90% or above) that get 5k?

Top 10%, so as you said, with 162 teams that would be 16th or 17th.

 

Edit:

I received my gold just now. GG WG for doing this in under 3 hours of posting standings o-o


Edited by Prodigal_Penguin, Mar 27 2014 - 20:22.


Moguai #59 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 21:20

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View PostKatoleras, on Mar 27 2014 - 10:23, said:

Hey dance, we are ranked 17th for this skirmish.

162 team participated meaning 10%= 16.2

Do we qualify for the grand prize? Or is it going to be 2.5k :(


16.2 would be rounded to 16

 

So 10% = 1st-16th

20% = 17th-32nd

30% = 33rd - 48th

40% = 49th - 64th

50% = 65th - 81st

 

In the case of ties at any percent bubble eg. you have 3 teams tied @ 16th, all 3 teams get the top 10%, but the top 20% get cut by 2 spots (the next 14 teams unless there is a tie there also)

 



Kalis #60 Posted Mar 27 2014 - 22:36

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View PostBianca_strega28, on Mar 27 2014 - 01:29, said:

LOL Great post Kalis - but I was arguing to KEEP this format not against.  As your point argues - this format is great for us. The knockout styles are not.  I don't disagree that playing better teams is a good thing and I prefer to watch replays where you have beaten someone ELSE'S team not mine and preferably another uber clan or semi-uber clan where we can REALLY see one of your strat's play out.  As you have pointed out - you often beat teams like mine in a couple of minutes - so having that happen to us time and time again in the first round of a knockout tournament teaches us nothing aside from coming up with better pagan-dancing-naked-around-our-monitors-while-sacrificing- live chickens-in-hopes-of-not-drawing-you-first-round ceremonies.

 

Part of our training is analyzing replays and always happy to watch one from your clan.  Thanks for your post.  That must have taken some time to do.

 

I type pretty fast in general.  Around 100wpm.  So typing it all out didn't take that much time.

That, and I do a lot of analysis of stuff, as a battle caller for a gold league team, this was just another one :D

 

As for watching a replay vs a top team.  The secret is in:

- seeing their tank lineup, and figuring out why

- seeing where they positioned their tanks, and then figuring out why they did what they did.

- see how they engaged during the decisive engagement.  were they hull down and peeking and shooting?  where they manuevering around to hit you in the flanks?

 

Simply put, with a replay, you can reverse engineer their strategy and thoughts, and then utilize it.  Or at the bare minimum, you learn what NOT to do vs good teams.

 

As for replay sharing.  Maybe after the tournament.  Certainly not during.

 

I'd share skirmish 10's semifinal match vs Otter (where we barely scraped by with a 3:2:1 win, especially when at 2:2, game 5 turned into a draw only because our only surviving tank: a 120hp chaffee managed to drown their full hp hellcat in water, which led to a draw (they had like 4 other tanks alive still).

Unfortunately, I wasn't playing at home that weekend, so none of the replays are here.







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