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Higher Skilled Players Like Artillery Less - Confirmed, But Why?

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Naughtius_Maximus #1561 Posted Jun 15 2014 - 22:43

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1.  Arty forces Bad Gameplay.

 

Because arty can project massive alpha anywhere at any time, tanks are forced to constantly be in hard cover.  Moving fast is no insurance against clickers -- massive splash can track you even on a bad miss, or they can just get a good click on a moving target.  Its honestly not that hard to lead shots -- this is considered a basic skill among tankers, why do clickers think its so hard?  Likewise, camo is no panacea because sooner or later you WILL be spotted.  This makes large stretches of most maps unplayable because they are death traps.  Its no coincidence that each map has a few, tiny spots where tanks always go -- these are places where they are the least likely to get crapon by [edited]mode. And that's not all.  WOT's probably worst system is its gimmicky spotting/camo system.  Yet arty puts gimmicky drive by spotting and suiscouting as good gameplay.  That's just stupid. 

 

Without arty, WOT is a game where position is key -- hull down, flank attacks, peekabooming, sniping, and so on all have a place.  With arty, WOT is a game where 90% of the map is unused because of [edited]mode, and the few places were the game is playable have 6 tanks humping a wall clicking at each other, because no other tactics are possible.  Its night and day.

 

I have zero clue how Garbad moves, but seriously, he can't possibly be that bad at it.

 

It's so simple to abuse the aim time on arties, I'm surprised people are actually afraid to move in the open because of them. All you have to do is pop out of cover at 30km/h+ and not head directly in the direction of the enemy base. You basically reset everyone's pre-aiming if they haven't seen you before you pop out. And when that's reset, it'll take at least 8 seconds before they finish reading your movement and fire a shot. Think that's not enough time? You can expect snipers to reliably do the same within 4 or less. 8 seconds is a lot of time, especially with 30km/h. Usually enough to get you 100m, or one minimap square. That's usually enough to get you to the next set of cover, or some kind of ridge that gets you off minimap. 4 seconds? I usually expect to eat a hit from a sniper while doing the same.

 

The only possible way you get shot by arty doing this is if they read your moving in the open attempt. As in, before you even leave your rock. Since they can see everything you're doing and you won't be resetting ****. Hence why I am puzzled about ArmyofBun's vid about oneshotting that AMX 50 100. Seriously should never tolerate someone aggressively proxy lighting you. Ever. Either forfeit the position, dive him, or camp hard and hope for assistance. Highly don't recommend the last one, since that usually means you let a top tier tank get sealed by a tier 6 light.

 

30km/h+ is not a heavy demand, and neither is 8 seconds of free movement after you're spotted. If you're excessively paranoid, assume you're spotted as soon as you leave cover, and you can still get far with 8 seconds. Hell, with post 8.6 arty, you can oftentimes get away with 10 while continuously lit, or even 12-15. But seriously, you wouldn't need that much time to get to your next position, not while lit constantly. Just asking to get sniped....by snipers.



Cinphul #1562 Posted Jun 16 2014 - 03:59

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View PostWarStore, on Jun 15 2014 - 17:18, said:

That is just to remind Cinphul that "rolling out in the open" does not automatically means the tank is exposed to enemy tanks, but it can be exposed to arty.

 

Worst argument ever.



WarStore #1563 Posted Jun 16 2014 - 04:11

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View PostCinphul, on Jun 16 2014 - 02:59, said:

 

Worst argument ever.

lol

 

Out of garbage to say?

But it was fun seeing you try to counter argue against a vastly superior player. Keep up the good work. It is always fun.


Edited by WarStore, Jun 16 2014 - 04:12.


Thingummywut #1564 Posted Jun 16 2014 - 05:34

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View PostScaevola, on Jun 15 2014 - 23:43, said:

I have zero clue how Garbad moves, but seriously, he can't possibly be that bad at it.

 

However he does it, it apparently works pretty well.



Naughtius_Maximus #1565 Posted Jun 16 2014 - 07:40

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Yeah. For some reason he's also famously susceptible to all forms of derp, whether it be from arties or from land arties. Or at least,as a victim he gets caught on video the most :trollface:

Thingummywut #1566 Posted Jun 16 2014 - 07:42

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View PostScaevola, on Jun 16 2014 - 08:40, said:

Yeah. For some reason he's also famously susceptible to all forms of derp, whether it be from arties or from land arties. Or at least,as a victim he gets caught on video the most :trollface:

 

It might just be that when someone does manage to derp him, the video is more likely to get posted since, well, he's Garbad.



Naughtius_Maximus #1567 Posted Jun 16 2014 - 08:47

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Yup. Which is why I said famously. None of us are likely to get caught on vid for the same stuff :teethhappy:

Mississippi_Squirrel #1568 Posted Jun 16 2014 - 14:38

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End of discussion.

 

There you have it.  

 

Playing a heavy takes more skill than Arty.

 

http://www.twitch.tv...ld_us/c/4033560



_Rudedog #1569 Posted Jun 21 2014 - 06:01

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All I can say is I HATE ARTY, I just got one shotted in my IS-7 by a Tier 10 GC.  2150 hp in one shot.

 

Totally over the top.


Edited by Rudedog1b, Jun 21 2014 - 06:02.


ArmoredCorps #1570 Posted Apr 27 2015 - 01:46

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View PostArmoredCorps, on May 03 2014 - 16:42, said:

That graph is mesmerizingly pretty. But I'll bite. 

 

1) Lesser-skilled players don't know the game mechanics in any kind of in-depth way. They make bad decisions because of this, because a lack of situational awareness, and because they're not good team players.

Spoiler

2) When you're bad, everything is random. 

Spoiler

3) So why is artillery bad? Because it embodies all of the unpredictable -- capricious -- aspects of RNG, in addition to making irrelevant, the use of terrain. 

Spoiler

4) baddies like the "I win" button

Spoiler

 

TL;DR -- to the lesser-skilled and average players, artillery is no more capricious than anything else. To the better players, they are uniquely capricious and harmful elements of gameplay. Also, WG.net sucks at balancing the meta. 

 

PS -- the walls of greenicums thinking arty is fine is hilarious, I just noticed that. They're just good enough to make reasonable decisions and just smart enough to realize XVM + arty is their only trump card against unicums. 

Of course they see the situation fine -- they can finally have that game-swinging influence that's just out of their reach and they can really take advantage of the idiots in an artillery piece. 

 

NECRO (I was cleaning bookmarks, I can still post here; lel)



Reinmand #1571 Posted Aug 19 2015 - 07:48

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Do you people realize this arty issue has been ongoing for over a year now.  Amazing.

Str8L3g1t #1572 Posted Aug 19 2015 - 08:33

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I am not a good player but I hate arty because of the randomness. I have missed stationary targets repeatedly while fully aimed, and at the same time I have been one shotted at max velocity by an arty that never even stopped to aim, in one case he was literally pivoting in circles. Last enemy left, an M40 on Airfield, wrapping up a match where I already have 5 kills and over 5k WN8, including soloing in turn a pair of t34-3s. Hes over in the southeast, I'm coming around the back, I spot him facing center map, make a rush on him firing as I come, he spots me, spins as I close, hit him once, hit him again but hit tracks and dont track him, hes still spinning, I'm maybe 20 degrees off where his barrel is pointing, he fires, I have time to think sweet top gun before I realize im dead, he keeps spinning, the IS-6 following me kills him.

Scorpiany #1573 Posted Aug 19 2015 - 09:22

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Out of pure curiosity, which program or website was used to create those graphs? My apologies if this has already been asked & answered, I wasn't able to find this information browsing through the Thread.

Naughtius_Maximus #1574 Posted Aug 19 2015 - 09:41

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Browsing? No seriously though, how do you browse 79 pages. :hiding:

WarStore #1575 Posted Aug 19 2015 - 14:02

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View PostNaughtius_Maximus, on Aug 19 2015 - 08:41, said:

Browsing? No seriously though, how do you browse 79 pages. :hiding:



predavolk #1576 Posted Aug 19 2015 - 18:16

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View PostScorpiany, on Aug 19 2015 - 03:22, said:

Out of pure curiosity, which program or website was used to create those graphs? My apologies if this has already been asked & answered, I wasn't able to find this information browsing through the Thread.

 

I'd also like to know the correlation or R-squared so we can have an estimate of the effect size along with the probability.  But a very good thread with a very good analysis.  Garbad (see posts 1571) might have been right about why it was included, but it seems that we now know why it stays- it's a crutch/simple mode for bad players.  As players get more skilled, they realize its limitations as both a vehicle to play in and play against.

Naughtius_Maximus #1577 Posted Aug 19 2015 - 18:50

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View PostWarStore, on Aug 19 2015 - 05:02, said:

 

That seriously doesn't work for graphs. Or images in general.

WarStore #1578 Posted Aug 19 2015 - 19:32

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View PostNaughtius_Maximus, on Aug 19 2015 - 17:50, said:

 

That seriously doesn't work for graphs. Or images in general.

 

Actually, it can help with images. In any case, the search function can help with this

 

Block Quote

 My apologies if this has already been asked

 

 



_Intrepid #1579 Posted Nov 15 2015 - 03:07

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View PostScorpiany, on Aug 19 2015 - 09:22, said:

Out of pure curiosity, which program or website was used to create those graphs? My apologies if this has already been asked & answered, I wasn't able to find this information browsing through the Thread.

 

Just regular old Excel for graphs.



noupperlobeman #1580 Posted Nov 15 2015 - 03:13

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View Post_Intrepid, on May 03 2014 - 15:57, said:

 

 

I strongly dislike artillery. Remove them or the puppy gets it: 32 votes, 16.58%

Remove artillery: 14 votes, 7.25%

Overhaul, but remove artillery if that's not enough: 23 votes, 11.92%

Overhaul, but keep artillery: 23 votes, 11.92%

Modify artillery, but no overhaul needed: 18, 9.33%

Artillery is fine, or I don't care: 43, 22.28%

I love artillery: 40 votes, 20.73%

 

 

There's too many options, and some are really similar. I feel like this skews the results. Is there any tangible

difference between option one and two, and four and five? They are almost identical.

 

EDIT: Holy necro batman


Edited by noupperlobeman, Nov 15 2015 - 03:16.






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