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Higher Skilled Players Like Artillery Less - Confirmed, But Why?

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_Intrepid #1581 Posted Nov 15 2015 - 03:19

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View Postnoupperlobeman, on Nov 15 2015 - 03:13, said:

 

There's too many options, and some are really similar. I feel like this skews the results. Is there any tangible

difference between option one and two, and five and six? They are almost identical.

 

I'm not sure how someone could feel this would skew results. There are only as many options as are needed to divide sentiment. You can want something to be removed without hating it. You can want something to stay without loving it. Just like options four and five are similar yet different. Overhaul is a bigger desire for change than a tweak. Knocking off hatred and love options would remove the ability to distinguish between levels of distaste or affection, something important when looking at extremes in opinion when related to extremes in player skill.

 

Yeah, the thread was older, but I saw someone asked a question and did not get a response. It's also no less relevant today than it was when originally written or last commented on.


Edited by _Intrepid, Nov 15 2015 - 03:20.


Rilak #1582 Posted Nov 15 2015 - 06:47

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Arty is a randomizer.  A purple toon wins 95% of its non arty games.  

Same toon will only win about 85% of their games vs arty.

 Due to being damaged by arty while aggressively playing.

  A 42% player will never 1v1 a 70% tank to tank.   Give him a gun conq. And maybe 1 in 4 games he kills you.



Rilak #1583 Posted Nov 15 2015 - 06:49

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Arty is a randomizer.  A purple toon wins 95% of its non arty games.  

Same toon will only win about 85% of their games vs arty.

 Due to being damaged by arty while aggressively playing.

  A 42% player will never 1v1 a 70% tank to tank.   Give him a gun conq. And maybe 1 in 4 games he kills you.



Thingummywut #1584 Posted Nov 15 2015 - 07:19

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View PostRilak, on Nov 15 2015 - 06:49, said:

Arty is a randomizer.  A purple toon wins 95% of its non arty games.  

Same toon will only win about 85% of their games vs arty.

 Due to being damaged by arty while aggressively playing.

  A 42% player will never 1v1 a 70% tank to tank.   Give him a gun conq. And maybe 1 in 4 games he kills you.

 



Strigonx #1585 Posted Nov 15 2015 - 10:19

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relevant



ProfessionalFinn #1586 Posted Sep 22 2018 - 22:22

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bump

24cups #1587 Posted Sep 22 2018 - 22:29

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View PostProfessionalFinn, on Sep 22 2018 - 16:22, said:

bump

Why ?



dunniteowl #1588 Posted Sep 22 2018 - 23:01

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This was the most AWESOME arty related post I have yet seen.  Period.

 

Here's my response, off-the-cuff, to your last question -- what is it that makes this correlation so strong?  

 

1) High Skill players are Controllers.  They tend to dominate and control the match.  They are decisive factors in their games more often than not.

 

2)  High Skill players tend to be more motivated and driven to perform higher.  It gives them more control over the actions on the field and allows them to change the fortune of a game.  This sense of direct control over the match is an important component to their ability to dictate the actions of an engagement.

 

3)  Lower Skill players tend to feel more like, "This is as much luck as it is anything," and have less of a sense of control as to what goes on in the match.  They tend to feel more vulnerable and less confident and so 'hang back' just a tad too long, or fail to push when they should.  They tend to hope that there are better players on their team, because, deep down, they know they need them to carry.

 

4)  Lower Skill players want to feel more in control and sometimes, sitting in the back, playing TD sniper or Artilleryman feels safer and allows them that 'sense of control' (more on that later, I have a differing perspective of that 'sense of control' concept) over the match with relatively low overall initial risk.  So if feels safer.

 

You combine these points together and it becomes easy to see that the issue becomes one of Loss of Control.  I wish to stress that I am making VERY NEBULOUS AND GENERAL WORDINGS to sort of broad stroke brush the underlying issue to highlight it.

 

Higher skill players do not like that lower skill players can completely negate their ability to dominate on the field.  Moreover, it removes that sense of control over things, which, I believe, in large part is a more unconscious or subconscious ripple effect of that sense of helplessness and vulnerability comes into play -- even in a game.  We all know this game can be pretty exciting and when that stuff is happening, lots of stuff is going on in our heads and hearts.  If that weren't so, we wouldn't see such 'heated' discussions on the forums, most on this very topic.

 

That's my ultimate answer.

 

Higher Skilled players like arty less, because they see it as taking away their ability to control (and this is a valid sensation, it sucks to feel helpless when you know you could dominate otherwise).

 

Lower skilled players like arty more, because it gives them a greater sense of safety (not so vulnerable now) and control (not so helpless) and -- more importantly on that other conscious level, a sense of satisfaction of knowing they are removing someone else's sense of control in the match.

 

 

Right now, I cannot play anything else, really.  I have to get a newer computer.  Others  play it for other reasons, some of them are personal injuries of one sort or another or just an affinity to play that sort of unit.  I don't really care too much one way or the other.  For me, it was one of five classes that were in the game when I signed on.

 

My objective is to, at some point in time, play all the classes/units of all the lines I can and get them to up or over 50%.  I don't care what unit that is.  To eschew a unit in a game like this is like saying, before playing chess, "Here, you take the knights.  I don't like them.  I can do just fine without them."  Okay, maybe not the best analogy, but it's as good as I can manage off-the-cuff.

 

So I play them all.  Can't wait to get back in my other tanks.

 

Meanwhile, I am a strange person.  I play them as often with the idea in mind that I am, in fact, just by showing up in arty, influencing the match, because it's a fair bet that at least two or three guys on the other team are already triggered the moment the square boxes show up.  Once the match starts, I hit as many as I can as far apart from each other as possible.  Crazy, right?

 

Yeah.  It drives the other team crazy.  Half their team thinks, "Arty is focused on me, AAHHH!" and thus I slow their aggressive pushes a bit and give my team mates time to pull their fingers out and take some shots at their softened up targets.  Psych warfare one oh one, get into their minds and their hearts will weaken.

 

 

OvO



ProfessionalFinn #1589 Posted Sep 23 2018 - 00:14

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View Postdunniteowl, on Sep 22 2018 - 23:01, said:

This was the most AWESOME arty related post I have yet seen.  Period.

 

Here's my response, off-the-cuff, to your last question -- what is it that makes this correlation so strong?  

 

1) High Skill players are Controllers.  They tend to dominate and control the match.  They are decisive factors in their games more often than not.

 

2)  High Skill players tend to be more motivated and driven to perform higher.  It gives them more control over the actions on the field and allows them to change the fortune of a game.  This sense of direct control over the match is an important component to their ability to dictate the actions of an engagement.

 

3)  Lower Skill players tend to feel more like, "This is as much luck as it is anything," and have less of a sense of control as to what goes on in the match.  They tend to feel more vulnerable and less confident and so 'hang back' just a tad too long, or fail to push when they should.  They tend to hope that there are better players on their team, because, deep down, they know they need them to carry.

 

4)  Lower Skill players want to feel more in control and sometimes, sitting in the back, playing TD sniper or Artilleryman feels safer and allows them that 'sense of control' (more on that later, I have a differing perspective of that 'sense of control' concept) over the match with relatively low overall initial risk.  So if feels safer.

 

You combine these points together and it becomes easy to see that the issue becomes one of Loss of Control.  I wish to stress that I am making VERY NEBULOUS AND GENERAL WORDINGS to sort of broad stroke brush the underlying issue to highlight it.

 

Higher skill players do not like that lower skill players can completely negate their ability to dominate on the field.  Moreover, it removes that sense of control over things, which, I believe, in large part is a more unconscious or subconscious ripple effect of that sense of helplessness and vulnerability comes into play -- even in a game.  We all know this game can be pretty exciting and when that stuff is happening, lots of stuff is going on in our heads and hearts.  If that weren't so, we wouldn't see such 'heated' discussions on the forums, most on this very topic.

 

That's my ultimate answer.

 

Higher Skilled players like arty less, because they see it as taking away their ability to control (and this is a valid sensation, it sucks to feel helpless when you know you could dominate otherwise).

 

Lower skilled players like arty more, because it gives them a greater sense of safety (not so vulnerable now) and control (not so helpless) and -- more importantly on that other conscious level, a sense of satisfaction of knowing they are removing someone else's sense of control in the match.

 

 

Right now, I cannot play anything else, really.  I have to get a newer computer.  Others  play it for other reasons, some of them are personal injuries of one sort or another or just an affinity to play that sort of unit.  I don't really care too much one way or the other.  For me, it was one of five classes that were in the game when I signed on.

 

My objective is to, at some point in time, play all the classes/units of all the lines I can and get them to up or over 50%.  I don't care what unit that is.  To eschew a unit in a game like this is like saying, before playing chess, "Here, you take the knights.  I don't like them.  I can do just fine without them."  Okay, maybe not the best analogy, but it's as good as I can manage off-the-cuff.

 

So I play them all.  Can't wait to get back in my other tanks.

 

Meanwhile, I am a strange person.  I play them as often with the idea in mind that I am, in fact, just by showing up in arty, influencing the match, because it's a fair bet that at least two or three guys on the other team are already triggered the moment the square boxes show up.  Once the match starts, I hit as many as I can as far apart from each other as possible.  Crazy, right?

 

Yeah.  It drives the other team crazy.  Half their team thinks, "Arty is focused on me, AAHHH!" and thus I slow their aggressive pushes a bit and give my team mates time to pull their fingers out and take some shots at their softened up targets.  Psych warfare one oh one, get into their minds and their hearts will weaken.

 

 

OvO

 

Owls are wise.

scHnuuudle_bop #1590 Posted Sep 23 2018 - 01:16

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oh goodness Finn, this is going to cause heads to explode.

 

A graph that shows the obvious, as has been said so many times before.

 

These people cry  the loudest because they have so much time invested, and are upset by something they cannot control like everything else.

They get their skills (loosely termed, it is just a video game) from clan style battles where they get to choose their opponents.

Then they come to the public battles and are upset because all of a sudden they are suffering, and their stats suffer. Therefore it must be bad, and everyone else should bow to their opinions. After all, look they can prove the dubious distinction of being good at moving a mouse around.



Mikosah #1591 Posted Sep 23 2018 - 03:04

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View PostscHnuuudle_bop, on Sep 22 2018 - 18:16, said:

oh goodness Finn, this is going to cause heads to explode.

 

A graph that shows the obvious, as has been said so many times before.

 

These people cry  the loudest because they have so much time invested, and are upset by something they cannot control like everything else.

They get their skills (loosely termed, it is just a video game) from clan style battles where they get to choose their opponents.

Then they come to the public battles and are upset because all of a sudden they are suffering, and their stats suffer. Therefore it must be bad, and everyone else should bow to their opinions. After all, look they can prove the dubious distinction of being good at moving a mouse around.

 

Then again, you could just as easily say that its insane that while the players are enjoying a complex game, some quadriplegic can go through entire matches without ever having to consider movement, positioning, knowledge of weakspots, armor angling, or anything else that separates WoT from Candy-Crush. Its one thing to play casual, its another to renounce the idea of putting forth any effort whatsoever.

the_Deadly_Bulb #1592 Posted Sep 23 2018 - 03:21

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View PostProfessionalFinn, on Sep 22 2018 - 13:22, said:

bump

 

View Post24cups, on Sep 22 2018 - 13:29, said:

Why ?

 

Necromancy is fun.

Obsession is a thing.

Arty can't hit the ProfessionalFinn in the forums.



dunniteowl #1593 Posted Sep 23 2018 - 03:46

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View PostMikosah, on Sep 22 2018 - 20:04, said:

 

Then again, you could just as easily say that its insane that while the players are enjoying a complex game, some quadriplegic can go through entire matches without ever having to consider movement, positioning, knowledge of weakspots, armor angling, or anything else that separates WoT from Candy-Crush. Its one thing to play casual, its another to renounce the idea of putting forth any effort whatsoever.

 

And you say all that like it's a bad thing.  And you say that like those folks, disadvantaged as they are, don't deserve to have the opportunity to do something that they otherwise might never get to do.  I know it hurts a lot of folks that some 'skilless clicker' can ruin someone's game, even though they put in 'relatively' more effort.  I say, relatively, because that mythical quadriplegic you so dismissively scorn, might be doing all he can just to play and have a good time.

 

You have no idea what sort of 'effort' those folks you so casually dismiss have to go through to play and, while you don't have to know, you certainly are in no position (thankfully) to decide whether or not they can do it here.

 

Wing down on this response.

 

 

OvO



HalfPastZulu #1594 Posted Sep 23 2018 - 06:05

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View PostArmored21st, on May 03 2014 - 16:07, said:

or because if you have good stats it seem no matter what tank you are or what tier you are you have an arty target on your back.

This is not a problem with the game as much as it is a problem with win8. I have always thought you shouldn't be able to see rankings in a match, only when a match is over should you be able to see any rankings or ratings for individual players.

 

On the other hand it just stands to reason that when your a good player your going to receive the most resistance from the enemy. If your the one giving the enemy the most trouble then your probably going to be target number one!

View PostWeapons_Grade_Autisms, on May 03 2014 - 16:09, said:

because you only need 1/3rd the skill-set of a tanker to be a top1% arty player compared to 1% of tanker

and it's a lot rng based also

Lol... I keep hearing this from many players... but then I always notice that the ones who say this never have any T8 or greater SPGS with >50% winrate.

View Postaqollo, on May 03 2014 - 16:25, said:

The possible flaw with your graph is that good players are rarer than bad players and uneven distribution are expected.

Also, when you say good players. It's important to say good at what. Guaranteed, that most if not all of the High rating arty haters dont play arty much and are really bad at it. I keep hearing how easy it is to be top rated in arty and what not... PROVE IT !



scHnuuudle_bop #1595 Posted Sep 23 2018 - 07:01

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View PostMikosah, on Sep 23 2018 - 03:04, said:

 

Then again, you could just as easily say that its insane that while the players are enjoying a complex game, some quadriplegic can go through entire matches without ever having to consider movement, positioning, knowledge of weakspots, armor angling, or anything else that separates WoT from Candy-Crush. Its one thing to play casual, its another to renounce the idea of putting forth any effort whatsoever.

 

see, you are all worked up over a bunch of pixels , pushed around by electronic impulses.

This game really does not exist, except for a few mere seconds on a video screen. So all the movement, knowledge of angling your dangle bla bla, really is not as impressive as you may think.

 

In the public battles, that is all you are, calm down sunshine, go play your clan wars where someone may be impressed. The public sure isn't

 

Purple guys are just upset, because some retired soul, playing to kill some time kills them. Boo hoo. Don't play public battles, problem solved, now shut up, press battle, or don't.

OMG 1500 responses, I am sure most are of these purple/blue players defending their sheer angst and revulsion, over a mere game. Get over it, sometimes we kick your butts.

Most times we don't. Wow, they still win most of their games, and still whine like girls. Amusing, if it was not so sad..............


Edited by scHnuuudle_bop, Sep 23 2018 - 07:02.


earthman34 #1596 Posted Sep 23 2018 - 07:44

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View PostMikosah, on Sep 22 2018 - 20:04, said:

Then again, you could just as easily say that its insane that while the players are enjoying a complex game, some quadriplegic can go through entire matches without ever having to consider movement, positioning, knowledge of weakspots, armor angling, or anything else that separates WoT from Candy-Crush. Its one thing to play casual, its another to renounce the idea of putting forth any effort whatsoever.

 

I remember many matches in artillery where there was plenty of movement. I've had matches where I've killed all three of the light tanks hunting me...within 100 meters. That's exciting. I've had matches where I've destroyed al the enemy artillery... before anybody else on my team even got a kill. I've had matches where I've shotgunned the last enemy looking for me, the last survivor. So get off your high horse about artillery being so easy and thoughtless to play. Sometimes it is. But not always.



I_QQ_4_U #1597 Posted Sep 23 2018 - 09:16

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Most of the 'good' players worry about their stats, the worst thing you can do to ruin your stats is play SPG's. So they likely make alt accounts that they play arty on.:)

 

However, I can see why some people wouldn't like it, just like some people don't like playing healers in game that have them. When I played DAOC there were players that almost exclusively played support classes and others who only played the DPS classes, some that only played stealth classes and others who never did, often because they abhorred them because like arty whiners here they had some irrational dislike of the playstyle.



I_QQ_4_U #1598 Posted Sep 23 2018 - 09:19

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View Postearthman34, on Sep 23 2018 - 07:44, said:

 

I remember many matches in artillery where there was plenty of movement. I've had matches where I've killed all three of the light tanks hunting me...within 100 meters. That's exciting. I've had matches where I've destroyed al the enemy artillery... before anybody else on my team even got a kill. I've had matches where I've shotgunned the last enemy looking for me, the last survivor. So get off your high horse about artillery being so easy and thoughtless to play. Sometimes it is. But not always.

 

Sadly that's the one area where SPG's were seriously nerfed. My favourite part of the game was near the end when the map opened up and I could move a round a lot, go into TD mode and hunt down low health tanks or lightly armoured ones. However with the alpha, pen and VR nerfs it's almost pointless now.

Tiocfaidh_Arla #1599 Posted Sep 23 2018 - 12:05

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View Postakoaih, on May 03 2014 - 22:18, said:

WNx measures individual performance in a team game.  Arty is a very team-based game mechanic.

 

Lol, arty is the most anti-team class in the game. Arty only plays for arty. It is a welfare entitlement class.

Edited by Tiocfaidh_Arla, Sep 23 2018 - 12:06.


ProfessionalFinn #1600 Posted Sep 23 2018 - 15:10

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View Postthe_Deadly_Bulb, on Sep 23 2018 - 03:21, said:

 

 

Necromancy is fun.

Obsession is a thing.

Arty can't hit the ProfessionalFinn in the forums.

 

Never hit but always stunned. :hiding:





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