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T-29 is complitely disbalanced for its Tier.


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Tigerclaw_x #1 Posted Apr 30 2011 - 21:11

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Sometimes a great game has a nasty abscess. So nasty it can complitely destroy the enjoyment of the game.
In WOT this abscess is T29 - US Tier 7 heavy tank. What makes it so unbalanced? Super heavy turret armor and NASTY 105mm long gun. I often heard: It has a weak body. However, is it so?
T29 armor is 102/75/51 body and 279/127/102 turret. The turret armor is absolutely the heaviest of any tank on Tier 7 and most on tier 8. However, is the BODY armor that weak. Not so, as if figures out. On Tier 7 there are following tanks:
1. Pz VI - Tiger. Body armor Front 100/80/80. Tell me, please how Tiger's body armor is that much  better then T29?
Tiger starts with 82mm turret and then advances to a 100mm turret. So, the BODY is about equal on both tanks, while T29 has nearly THREE TIMES the Turret armor then Tiger. You call THIS ballance?
2. IS tank. Body armor is 120/90/60. Indeed it is a little stronger then T-29 body armor. However, it must be noted that on Tier 7 guns are so powerful that 20mm of armor at this level makes very little difference. Turret armor once again is nowhere NEAR T29 100/90/90. Once again, it is VERY similar to Tiger, but almost 2.5 times thinner then T29.

So what happens is that Tigers and IS must shoot ONLY at T29 body if they want to penetrate it. While T29 can shoot both, Tiger and IS ANYWHERE and get RELIABLE penetration.

But wait, you will tell me. Surely there are other things to tanks then just armor: Cannons, visibility, etc.
However, even here, T29 proves to be completely dominant over ANYTHING at Tier 7.
Check it out


The top guns for IS are:
1 D10T with penetration 175 and ROF of 8.
2 D-2-5T with penetration 175 and ROF 4.6
3 D25T with penetration 175 and ROF 5.6

Best visibility for IS is 400m with the best turret

Top guns for TIGER 1 are:
1 Kwk 42 with penetration 138 and ROF of 15
2 Kwk 36 with penetration 132 and ROF of 8
3 Kwk 43 with penetration 203 and ROF of almost 9.

Best visibility for Tiger is 420m.

IS delivers more damage, but has lower ROF, visibility, penetration and accuracy then tiger, while having heavier armor. Jury is still out on what is better, but IMHO, Tiger is a better tank in this game (not IRL, since it NEVER gotten a Kwk 43). However, the tanks are fairly close to each other.

BOTH of them get blown out of the water by T29, which is ALSO a Tier 7 and is SUPPOSED to be about their equal.

Top guns for T29 are:
1. M3 with penetration of 160 and ROF of 9. This is easily superior to KWK 36 and about equal to Soviet D10T
2. T5E1 with penetration of 198 and ROF of 5 and Damage is 360. This is greatly superior to ANYTHING that Tiger or IS have.

Visibility on T29 is 430, also greatly superior to ANYTHING that Tiger or IS have.

So where is the balance? T29 has about the same Hull armor then his opponents of the same tier, 2.5-2.7 times turret armor then his opponents of the same tier. Greater visibility, and greatly superior gun.

Hey, game developers, where is the balance? Shouldn't the tanks of the same tier be ABOUT EQUAL?

Now, all the T29 tank drivers - I know you love your tank. And I know why: it is fun to be superior to any tank of your own tier and have huge kill list. However, some of us do not want to play Amerikan, or spend hours and hours getting to super duper munchkin tank during installment of which developers got high on something and forgot about such thing as GAME BALANCE.

Lert #2 Posted Apr 30 2011 - 21:15

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If you can point the devs to an actual US heavy tank design that WOULD be equal to the Tiger and IS, I'm sure they'll put it in. What you're doing now though is nothing more than just crying over perceived imbalances, where all three tanks can be used to equal effectiveness.

F34rmen00bz #3 Posted Apr 30 2011 - 21:20

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Lawl, highest tier tank played is IV and he's telling what Tier VII is like

Vandrel #4 Posted Apr 30 2011 - 21:25

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People complain about Russian imbalance, people complain about American imbalance, etc. etc.

If it exists, there will be QQ about it.

Ultramarine212 #5 Posted Apr 30 2011 - 21:27

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View PostTigerclaw_x, on Apr 30 2011 - 21:11, said:

Sometimes a great game has a nasty abscess. So nasty it can complitely destroy the enjoyment of the game.
In WOT this abscess is T29 - US Tier 7 heavy tank. What makes it so unbalanced? Super heavy turret armor and NASTY 105mm long gun. I often heard: It has a weak body. However, is it so?
T29 armor is 102/75/51 body and 279/127/102 turret. The turret armor is absolutely the heaviest of any tank on Tier 7 and most on tier 8. However, is the BODY armor that weak. Not so, as if figures out. On Tier 7 there are following tanks:
1. Pz VI - Tiger. Body armor Front 100/80/80. Tell me, please how Tiger's body armor is that much  better then T29?
Tiger starts with 82mm turret and then advances to a 100mm turret. So, the BODY is about equal on both tanks, while T29 has nearly THREE TIMES the Turret armor then Tiger. You call THIS ballance?
2. IS tank. Body armor is 120/90/60. Indeed it is a little stronger then T-29 body armor. However, it must be noted that on Tier 7 guns are so powerful that 20mm of armor at this level makes very little difference. Turret armor once again is nowhere NEAR T29 100/90/90. Once again, it is VERY similar to Tiger, but almost 2.5 times thinner then T29.

So what happens is that Tigers and IS must shoot ONLY at T29 body if they want to penetrate it. While T29 can shoot both, Tiger and IS ANYWHERE and get RELIABLE penetration.

But wait, you will tell me. Surely there are other things to tanks then just armor: Cannons, visibility, etc.
However, even here, T29 proves to be completely dominant over ANYTHING at Tier 7.
Check it out


The top guns for IS are:
1 D10T with penetration 175 and ROF of 8.
2 D-2-5T with penetration 175 and ROF 4.6
3 D25T with penetration 175 and ROF 5.6

Best visibility for IS is 400m with the best turret

Top guns for TIGER 1 are:
1 Kwk 42 with penetration 138 and ROF of 15
2 Kwk 36 with penetration 132 and ROF of 8
3 Kwk 43 with penetration 203 and ROF of almost 9.

Best visibility for Tiger is 420m.

IS delivers more damage, but has lower ROF, visibility, penetration and accuracy then tiger, while having heavier armor. Jury is still out on what is better, but IMHO, Tiger is a better tank in this game (not IRL, since it NEVER gotten a Kwk 43). However, the tanks are fairly close to each other.

BOTH of them get blown out of the water by T29, which is ALSO a Tier 7 and is SUPPOSED to be about their equal.

Top guns for T29 are:
1. M3 with penetration of 160 and ROF of 9. This is easily superior to KWK 36 and about equal to Soviet D10T
2. T5E1 with penetration of 198 and ROF of 5 and Damage is 360. This is greatly superior to ANYTHING that Tiger or IS have.

Visibility on T29 is 430, also greatly superior to ANYTHING that Tiger or IS have.

So where is the balance? T29 has about the same Hull armor then his opponents of the same tier, 2.5-2.7 times turret armor then his opponents of the same tier. Greater visibility, and greatly superior gun.

Hey, game developers, where is the balance? Shouldn't the tanks of the same tier be ABOUT EQUAL?

Now, all the T29 tank drivers - I know you love your tank. And I know why: it is fun to be superior to any tank of your own tier and have huge kill list. However, some of us do not want to play Amerikan, or spend hours and hours getting to super duper munchkin tank during installment of which developers got high on something and forgot about such thing as GAME BALANCE.

Shoot the ears on the upgraded turret for the T29, those are dead zones, no armor values what so ever and take full damage, can kill a T29 in 3-4 shots with the IS by hitting the ears, while 5-6 shots for the Tiger I with the 88L70

Funny that you go on and on about game balance, yet im failing to see you even raise a concern about the blatantly OP russian tanks in several Tiers, EX:

Tier 4, T-28 gets the 85mm gun, massively better / higher than anything else for tier 4 tanks
Tier 5, KV with 107mm high velocity gun, nuff said, nothing else compares
Tier 6, T-34/85, only tier 6 medium that gets guns with over 140 penetration, the German tier 6 are stuck with 132 penetrating 88L56, and the M4A3E8 is stuck with 128mm penetration, while the T-34/85 can use the faster firing 144 penetration D5T 85mm, or 175mm penetration 100mm gun.
Tier 7, T29 is situation tank, if it's hull down, it rapes (possibly OP), if it isnt, it's nothing special.
Tier 8, Some Actual balance, save for the fact that the T32 is stuck with that 198mm penetration gun, while both the IS-3 and Tiger II get 220mm+ penetration guns.
Tier 9, T34 sucks. IS-4 is OP.

KoopaKrab #6 Posted Apr 30 2011 - 21:28

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View PostVandrel, on Apr 30 2011 - 21:25, said:

People complain about Russian imbalance, people complain about American imbalance, etc. etc.

If it exists, there will be QQ about it.

... If it exists, then there should be QQ, because there shouldn't be any imbalance.

xGear #7 Posted Apr 30 2011 - 21:29

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I-122m
390/390/465(HP)
175/217/61(mm)
5.56(r/m)
0.40

T29 -105mm
360/360/450(HP)
198/245/53(mm)
5(r/m)
0.37

How do you look at that and see the T29's gun as greatly superior? IS deals more damage AND has a faster rate of fire. only .2 less in accuracy and slightly less in PEN.

IS also has slope so those 20mm more makes a huge difference.

a1fox3 #8 Posted Apr 30 2011 - 21:40

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View PostTigerclaw_x, on Apr 30 2011 - 21:11, said:

Sometimes a great game has a nasty abscess. So nasty it can complitely destroy the enjoyment of the game.
In WOT this abscess is T29 - US Tier 7 heavy tank. What makes it so unbalanced? Super heavy turret armor and NASTY 105mm long gun. I often heard: It has a weak body. However, is it so?
T29 armor is 102/75/51 body and 279/127/102 turret. The turret armor is absolutely the heaviest of any tank on Tier 7 and most on tier 8. However, is the BODY armor that weak. Not so, as if figures out. On Tier 7 there are following tanks:
1. Pz VI - Tiger. Body armor Front 100/80/80. Tell me, please how Tiger's body armor is that much  better then T29?
Tiger starts with 82mm turret and then advances to a 100mm turret. So, the BODY is about equal on both tanks, while T29 has nearly THREE TIMES the Turret armor then Tiger. You call THIS ballance?
2. IS tank. Body armor is 120/90/60. Indeed it is a little stronger then T-29 body armor. However, it must be noted that on Tier 7 guns are so powerful that 20mm of armor at this level makes very little difference. Turret armor once again is nowhere NEAR T29 100/90/90. Once again, it is VERY similar to Tiger, but almost 2.5 times thinner then T29.

So what happens is that Tigers and IS must shoot ONLY at T29 body if they want to penetrate it. While T29 can shoot both, Tiger and IS ANYWHERE and get RELIABLE penetration.

But wait, you will tell me. Surely there are other things to tanks then just armor: Cannons, visibility, etc.
However, even here, T29 proves to be completely dominant over ANYTHING at Tier 7.
Check it out


The top guns for IS are:
1 D10T with penetration 175 and ROF of 8.
2 D-2-5T with penetration 175 and ROF 4.6
3 D25T with penetration 175 and ROF 5.6

Best visibility for IS is 400m with the best turret

Top guns for TIGER 1 are:
1 Kwk 42 with penetration 138 and ROF of 15
2 Kwk 36 with penetration 132 and ROF of 8
3 Kwk 43 with penetration 203 and ROF of almost 9.

Best visibility for Tiger is 420m.

IS delivers more damage, but has lower ROF, visibility, penetration and accuracy then tiger, while having heavier armor. Jury is still out on what is better, but IMHO, Tiger is a better tank in this game (not IRL, since it NEVER gotten a Kwk 43). However, the tanks are fairly close to each other.

BOTH of them get blown out of the water by T29, which is ALSO a Tier 7 and is SUPPOSED to be about their equal.

Top guns for T29 are:
1. M3 with penetration of 160 and ROF of 9. This is easily superior to KWK 36 and about equal to Soviet D10T
2. T5E1 with penetration of 198 and ROF of 5 and Damage is 360. This is greatly superior to ANYTHING that Tiger or IS have.

Visibility on T29 is 430, also greatly superior to ANYTHING that Tiger or IS have.

So where is the balance? T29 has about the same Hull armor then his opponents of the same tier, 2.5-2.7 times turret armor then his opponents of the same tier. Greater visibility, and greatly superior gun.

Hey, game developers, where is the balance? Shouldn't the tanks of the same tier be ABOUT EQUAL?

Now, all the T29 tank drivers - I know you love your tank. And I know why: it is fun to be superior to any tank of your own tier and have huge kill list. However, some of us do not want to play Amerikan, or spend hours and hours getting to super duper munchkin tank during installment of which developers got high on something and forgot about such thing as GAME BALANCE.
1 thing you fail to notice even T4 tanks can shot the body armour of all US heavy tank even the tier 10 the T30 tank  IE: russian T-28 with the 85mm on a tier 4 tank.

:Smile-izmena::Smile-izmena::Smile-izmena:

Tigerclaw_x #9 Posted Apr 30 2011 - 22:02

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View PostUltramarine212, on Apr 30 2011 - 21:27, said:

Shoot the ears on the upgraded turret for the T29, those are dead zones, no armor values what so ever and take full damage, can kill a T29 in 3-4 shots with the IS by hitting the ears, while 5-6 shots for the Tiger I with the 88L70

Funny that you go on and on about game balance, yet im failing to see you even raise a concern about the blatantly OP russian tanks in several Tiers, EX:

Tier 4, T-28 gets the 85mm gun, massively better / higher than anything else for tier 4 tanks
Tier 5, KV with 107mm high velocity gun, nuff said, nothing else compares
Tier 6, T-34/85, only tier 6 medium that gets guns with over 140 penetration, the German tier 6 are stuck with 132 penetrating 88L56, and the M4A3E8 is stuck with 128mm penetration, while the T-34/85 can use the faster firing 144 penetration D5T 85mm, or 175mm penetration 100mm gun.
Tier 7, T29 is situation tank, if it's hull down, it rapes (possibly OP), if it isnt, it's nothing special.
Tier 8, Some Actual balance, save for the fact that the T32 is stuck with that 198mm penetration gun, while both the IS-3 and Tiger II get 220mm+ penetration guns.
Tier 9, T34 sucks. IS-4 is OP.

Good points except:
Tier 4, T-28 has paper thin armor (it should be 70, as that's what it was on later version T-28E). Has CRAP for optics and is BIG. Hard to hide, easy to kill.
Tier 5. KV has 107mm cannon. Turret turns SUPER slow, optics are pathetic. Huge and big target. I get better results with Pz IV then with KV. KV's armor is 75mm Hull front and 95mm Turret armor (best) with  VISIBILITY of PATHETIC 350m. Panzer IV has front armor of 80mm and Turret armor of 120mm. PZ IV has SUPER THIN side armor, true, however, its KWk 42 is quite capable of penetrating KV, has MUCH better accuracy and ROF, not to mention that it has 420m visibility, 20% better then KV. Any questions?
Tier 6. T-34-85 still has 45mm hull armor, best turret armor of 115, 400m best visibility. While VK3601 has 100mm on hull and turret. VK3601 has 138mm penetration on its Kwk 42. Higher accuracy, higher ROF and once again, better visibility then T-34-85:420
M4 has 63mm of hull armor, once again better then T-34-85, M2 cannon has penetration of 128, while having better ROF and accuracy. It also has visibility of 420.
T34-85, fully upgraded does get a 100mm gun with penetration 175 which has lower ROF and accuracy then M2 or Kwk42.
Jury is still out on what is better (I like Kwk42). T-34-85 is balanced out vs M4A3E8 via lower optics, lower ROF, thinner Hull armor.

Actually the tank that is about equal to Tiger is M26 Pershing. In fact someone said that with Pershing "Americans showed to Germans how Tiger SHOULD have been built" Pershing M26. Having similar armor and armament to Pz VI Tiger it was only 41.6 tons vs Tiger 57 Tons.
Pershings in US Army of World War 2 were classified as Heavy and were used as such. Similar to Soviet IS-2 Tanks, which also had a weight of 46 Tons and were considered heavies and used as such.
U.S. Army 1945 M4 - Medium, M26 - Heavy
Soviet Army 1944 T-34-85 - Medium, IS-2 Heavy
German Army 1944. Pz V, Pz IV - Medium, Tiger 1 - heavy, Tiger 2 - Super heavy.

It all depends on what you consider heavy and medium tanks. Germans consider a tank heavy if it has heavy gun - 88mm and up.
Soviets and Americans considered tanks by Mass - anything under 40 tons is Medium, anything over 40 tons is heavy.

You can see which tank is considered heavy by the way it is used. If it is put into independent unit and used for QUANTITATIVE improvement of already existent units during important operations (breakthrough or counter attack) it is HEAVY tank. It can also be used as a part of a panzer or armored division but a rather SMALL part. Some early Soviet Mechanized Brigades had KV-1 tanks as a part of their forces. However, a small part.
This is how IS-2 and Tigers were used. Panthers were given to a line armor divisions and were MEANT to replace Pz IV as an MBT of panzerwaffe.

M26 was used as Heavy Tank during world war 2. Main tank of U.S. Army was M4 of various models. So, Tier VII US heavy tank should be M26 Pershing. Tier 10 US Medium tank should be M48 of early models:-)

Tigerclaw_x #10 Posted Apr 30 2011 - 22:05

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View PostxGear, on Apr 30 2011 - 21:29, said:

I-122m
390/390/465(HP)
175/217/61(mm)
5.56(r/m)
0.40

T29 -105mm
360/360/450(HP)
198/245/53(mm)
5(r/m)
0.37

How do you look at that and see the T29's gun as greatly superior? IS deals more damage AND has a faster rate of fire. only .2 less in accuracy and slightly less in PEN.

IS also has slope so those 20mm more makes a huge difference.

T29 also has a slope, and as far as gun, last time I checked  198 is greater then 175. Those .03 accuracy matter.
And once again, for those who don't read. T29 can penetrate Tiger or IS armor ANYWHERE, turret, or hull.
While Tiger and IS driver must snipe out T29 and hit it ONLY on the hull.

Oh, and I shot T29 into Hull side with T-28 85mm canon at least twice. Both times "Bounced off", then he one shot killed me. T29 and T-28 should not even BE on the same battlefield:-)

publord #11 Posted Apr 30 2011 - 22:13

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View PostTigerclaw_x, on Apr 30 2011 - 22:05, said:

T29 also has a slope, and as far as gun, last time I checked  198 is greater then 175. Those .03 accuracy matter.
And once again, for those who don't read. T29 can penetrate Tiger or IS armor ANYWHERE, turret, or hull.
While Tiger and IS driver must snipe out T29 and hit it ONLY on the hull.

Oh, and I shot T29 into Hull side with T-28 85mm canon at least twice. Both times "Bounced off", then he one shot killed me. T29 and T-28 should not even BE on the same battlefield:-)

I don't get it...have you actually played against a T29 with an similar tank in beta, or is this from your experiences as a T-28?

Tigerclaw_x #12 Posted Apr 30 2011 - 22:29

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I went against T29 in following tanks:
T-28, T-34, T34-85, KV, KV3, Pz III, Pz IV, Luchs, Leopard, SU85B, VK-3601, Marder. Most of it was at the later stages of beta testing.

Here are my experiences: 100mm frontal armor of T29 is not any weaker then frontal armor of KV3 or any other tanks I was in. T29 has greater vision range then ANY Soviet tank, and is a match for most US tanks.
Even with 90mm canon, T29 is a threat to ANY of the tanks I have listed.
When fighting against T29 YOU NEED TO SNIPE AT THE HULL. Hitting him in the turret, even with KVK42 does NO DAMAGE.
Soviet 107mm canon which worked VERY well against Tigers is useless against T29. Good luck doing it in a broken terrain or in the city. Very hard. T29 with its 90mm cannon really doesn't care where he has to hit you. He hits - he penetrates and does CRAPLOAD of damage.
T29 can dance circles around KV and KV3 (the only heavy tanks I drove).

People who drive T29 love to say "U need skilz to drive your tank. YOu do not know how to drive your tank if you can't beat us". Let me tell you how T29 drivers fight in the battles I been in (where T29 was the highest tier tank) - they park somewhere, usually hiding their hull, and calmly snipe everything that comes near them.
Alternatively they just slowly move head onto the enemy, trading hits. 50% of enemy hits will hit the turret doing no damage. I have seen T29 just calmly charge at 3 Tiger tanks, get hit 7 times, (4 times on the turret), blow up all 3 and then still have 29% health. And he just CHARGED them. No tactic, just slowly, deliberately marched at them. I was right behind him in Pz III and was covering him from TDs if enemy had any.

When and if I develop T29, I will be more then happy to take any 2:1 challenge vs ANY Tier 7 or Tier 6 tanks. The tank is freaking overpowering. It should be at Tier 9 or 10.

Tigerclaw_x #13 Posted Apr 30 2011 - 22:30

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View PostTigerclaw_x, on Apr 30 2011 - 22:29, said:

I went against T29 in following tanks:
T-28, T-34, T34-85, KV, KV3, Pz III, Pz IV, Luchs, Leopard, SU85B, VK-3601, Hezter, SU-85B, M4, M4A3E8, T1 Heavy Most of it was at the later stages of beta testing.

Here are my experiences: 100mm frontal armor of T29 is not any weaker then frontal armor of KV3 or any other tanks I was in. T29 has greater vision range then ANY Soviet tank, and is a match for most US tanks.
Even with 90mm canon, T29 is a threat to ANY of the tanks I have listed.
When fighting against T29 YOU NEED TO SNIPE AT THE HULL. Hitting him in the turret, even with KVK42 does NO DAMAGE.
Soviet 107mm canon which worked VERY well against Tigers is useless against T29. Good luck doing it in a broken terrain or in the city. Very hard. T29 with its 90mm cannon really doesn't care where he has to hit you. He hits - he penetrates and does CRAPLOAD of damage.
T29 can dance circles around KV and KV3 (the only heavy tanks I drove).

People who drive T29 love to say "U need skilz to drive your tank. YOu do not know how to drive your tank if you can't beat us". Let me tell you how T29 drivers fight in the battles I been in (where T29 was the highest tier tank) - they park somewhere, usually hiding their hull, and calmly snipe everything that comes near them.
Alternatively they just slowly move head onto the enemy, trading hits. 50% of enemy hits will hit the turret doing no damage. I have seen T29 just calmly charge at 3 Tiger tanks, get hit 7 times, (4 times on the turret), blow up all 3 and then still have 29% health. And he just CHARGED them. No tactic, just slowly, deliberately marched at them. I was right behind him in Pz III and was covering him from TDs if enemy had any.

When and if I develop T29, I will be more then happy to take any 2:1 challenge vs ANY Tier 7 or Tier 6 tanks. The tank is freaking overpowering. It should be at Tier 9 or 10.

please do not double post, warning ~ Brygin

Kalis #14 Posted Apr 30 2011 - 22:39

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um...
You seem to live in a fantasy world.  50% of the hits will hit the turret?
Are you kidding me?

Yes they have a big gun.
But their hull armor is so paper thin its easy to damage a T29.

Go on and try the American branch then.
Drive one around, you'll quickly realize that it is not anywhere close to being invincible, and that its a rare shot that will bounce off a T29.

In fact, neither the Tiger or the T29 will bounce very many shots.
The IS's frontal armor is sloped however, and bounces a surprising number of shots.

Ultramarine212 #15 Posted Apr 30 2011 - 22:40

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View PostTigerclaw_x, on Apr 30 2011 - 22:02, said:

Good points except:
Tier 4, T-28 has paper thin armor (it should be 70, as that's what it was on later version T-28E). Has CRAP for optics and is BIG. Hard to hide, easy to kill.

Tier 5. KV has 107mm cannon. Turret turns SUPER slow, optics are pathetic. Huge and big target. I get better results with Pz IV then with KV. KV's armor is 75mm Hull front and 95mm Turret armor (best) with  VISIBILITY of PATHETIC 350m. Panzer IV has front armor of 80mm and Turret armor of 120mm. PZ IV has SUPER THIN side armor, true, however, its KWk 42 is quite capable of penetrating KV, has MUCH better accuracy and ROF, not to mention that it has 420m visibility, 20% better then KV. Any questions?

Tier 6. T-34-85 still has 45mm hull armor, best turret armor of 115, 400m best visibility. While VK3601 has 100mm on hull and turret. VK3601 has 138mm penetration on its Kwk 42. Higher accuracy, higher ROF and once again, better visibility then T-34-85:420
M4 has 63mm of hull armor, once again better then T-34-85, M2 cannon has penetration of 128, while having better ROF and accuracy. It also has visibility of 420.

T34-85, fully upgraded does get a 100mm gun with penetration 175 which has lower ROF and accuracy then M2 or Kwk42.
Jury is still out on what is better (I like Kwk42). T-34-85 is balanced out vs M4A3E8 via lower optics, lower ROF, thinner Hull armor.

Tier 4: None of the Tier 4 tanks have good armor (Save maybe the Hetzer), The M3 Lee is bigger (Atleast taller,), and has to expose half it's top piss poor armored body before it can actually fire it's hull gun. The T-28 actually has the best view range, the Panzer III has 360m view range, same with the M3 Lee, while the T-28 has 390.

Tier 5: Turret turns slow, which is why you turn both your turret AND tracks at same time in same direction (This is something Tiger Crews did during WWII to target / lead tanks easier). T1 is bigger than the KV, and is poorly armed in comparison. Yes the KWk 42 is more accurate and faster firing, but a KV will kill any PZ IV with 2 shots from the 107mm gun, it can get those two shots off in 17 seconds, while the Panzer IV will require 5 shots, which will take 25 seconds.

Tier 6: T-34/85 has 45mm SLOPED frontal armor, that slope makes it more like 70-90mm (dont know the math, someone can post the exact), and has a higher chance of bouncing shots due to rounds hitting at odd angles. It has better speed, acceleration, transverse, and turret transverse over the VK3601, better Penetration and better damage as well. The KWk 42 is nothing special compared to the 85mm D5T, they both are nearly the same accuracy (.31 vs .32), and Fire rate (12 vs 11.79), while the KWk 42 has faster aim time (2 sec vs 2.5 sec); the D5T in turn has better damage (165 vs 135) and penetration (144 vs 138). The T-34/85 will kill the VK3601 with 4 rounds with the 100mm in 33 seconds, or 5 rounds with the 85mm in 25 seconds. The VK3601 will kill the T-34/85 with the KWk 42 with 5 rounds in 25 seconds.

The M4A3E8 has better frontal armor thickness, but is huge compared to the T34/85, the T-34/85 has better speed, turret transverse, penetration, damage, and accuracy; while the M4A3E8 has better fire rate, aim time and view distance. The T34/85 can kill a M4A3E8 with 3 rounds with the 100mm in 25 seconds, or 5 rounds with the 85mm in 25 seconds. The M4A3E8's 76mm M1A2 can kill the T-34/85 with 5 rounds if only the body is hit (Turret on T-34/85 will bounce the 76mm), in 14 seconds (Rape :o), but only if the body is hit.

Tigerclaw_x #16 Posted Apr 30 2011 - 22:52

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View PostUltramarine212, on Apr 30 2011 - 22:40, said:

Tier 4: None of the Tier 4 tanks have good armor (Save maybe the Hetzer), The M3 Lee is bigger (Atleast taller,), and has to expose half it's top piss poor armored body before it can actually fire it's hull gun. The T-28 actually has the best view range, the Panzer III has 360m view range, same with the M3 Lee, while the T-28 has 390.

Tier 5: Turret turns slow, which is why you turn both your turret AND tracks at same time in same direction (This is something Tiger Crews did during WWII to target / lead tanks easier). T1 is bigger than the KV, and is poorly armed in comparison. Yes the KWk 42 is more accurate and faster firing, but a KV will kill any PZ IV with 2 shots from the 107mm gun, it can get those two shots off in 17 seconds, while the Panzer IV will require 5 shots, which will take 25 seconds.

Tier 6: T-34/85 has 45mm SLOPED frontal armor, that slope makes it more like 70-90mm (dont know the math, someone can post the exact), and has a higher chance of bouncing shots due to rounds hitting at odd angles. It has better speed, acceleration, transverse, and turret transverse over the VK3601, better Penetration and better damage as well. The KWk 42 is nothing special compared to the 85mm D5T, they both are nearly the same accuracy (.31 vs .32), and Fire rate (12 vs 11.79), while the KWk 42 has faster aim time (2 sec vs 2.5 sec); the D5T in turn has better damage (165 vs 135) and penetration (144 vs 138). The T-34/85 will kill the VK3601 with 4 rounds with the 100mm in 33 seconds, or 5 rounds with the 85mm in 25 seconds. The VK3601 will kill the T-34/85 with the KWk 42 with 5 rounds in 25 seconds.

The M4A3E8 has better frontal armor thickness, but is huge compared to the T34/85, the T-34/85 has better speed, turret transverse, penetration, damage, and accuracy; while the M4A3E8 has better fire rate, aim time and view distance. The T34/85 can kill a M4A3E8 with 3 rounds with the 100mm in 25 seconds, or 5 rounds with the 85mm in 25 seconds. The M4A3E8's 76mm M1A2 can kill the T-34/85 with 5 rounds if only the body is hit (Turret on T-34/85 will bounce the 76mm), in 14 seconds (Rape :o), but only if the body is hit.

Tier IV tanks with good armor? Both Pz III and Leopard have around 60-70mm of hull armor. Compared to 20mm on T-28.
T-28 and Pz III easily penetrate each other with their cannons. In fact Pz III will penetrate T-28 even with the 75mm short cannon. I personally multiple times killed T28s with just about every cannon, including 23mm VYa:-).
US M3 medium tanks have not only thicker armor then T28, but also a 75mm canon that can easily penetrate not only T28 but also frontal armor of Pz III. Both of these tanks get their best guns faster then T-28 gets his 85mm.
I hope they make not only Up Armor kit for T28, but also a 95mm canon:-)

Tier V tanks. T1 Heavy is NOT bigger then a KV with a huge box turret that you need for 107mm cannon. The 76mm canon on T1 heavy reliably penetrates KV armor from ANY angle, while delivering less damage, it reloads faster.

Tier VI tanks. Sloped armor does make a difference. And Not only T34-85 has it, but also Sherman, and Shermans armor is thicker. As far as VK3601. I had all tier 6 tanks. I had best results in VK3601. I had Sherman and T-34-85 shots not penetrate my armor, and I NEVER had a KWK42 shots bounce off neither Sherman of any version or of T-34-85. In fact my best kill/death ratio was Best at Pz IV and VK3601 was second best. I had horrible luck with any tank against T29.

This is NOT world of warcraft. It is NOT about damage per second. If I hit and I penetrate, I can kill your gunner or loader. Jam your turret, destroy your gunsight, set your tank on fire or blow up your ammo.
I had my tanks hit 3-4 times with minimal damage and in return a single hit would blow up a tank of an equal tier.
Just yesterday my Pz III got hit like 5 times, each did minimal damage (I was being hit by an A20), I hit it back once, it stopped shooting, even though it hit me several times  before I found it. Second shot set it on fire. Third shot blew it up.
I had gunners killed and then I could not hit didley squat. All it took is one hit, and then my long range accuracy went out the window. It is not DPS here. This is NOT World of Warcraft, lol

Ultramarine212 #17 Posted Apr 30 2011 - 23:19

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View PostTigerclaw_x, on Apr 30 2011 - 22:52, said:


This is NOT world of warcraft. It is NOT about damage per second. If I hit and I penetrate, I can kill your gunner or loader. Jam your turret, destroy your gunsight, set your tank on fire or blow up your ammo.
I had my tanks hit 3-4 times with minimal damage and in return a single hit would blow up a tank of an equal tier.
Just yesterday my Pz III got hit like 5 times, each did minimal damage (I was being hit by an A20), I hit it back once, it stopped shooting, even though it hit me several times  before I found it. Second shot set it on fire. Third shot blew it up.
I had gunners killed and then I could not hit didley squat. All it took is one hit, and then my long range accuracy went out the window. It is not DPS here. This is NOT World of Warcraft, lol

Really? Then why are YOU the one always saying "I can shoot faster" "This gun can fire faster" etc etc etc?

85mm, if it hits your PZIII twice, you're dead, end of story.

107mm, if it hits your PZ IV twice, you're dead.

The 85mm, 107mm, and 100mm are the best guns of their tiers with the best penetration, they dont bounce, they penetrate, cause none of the Tier 4 tanks have 120mm armor, none of the tier 5 tanks has 167mm armor, and none of the Tier 6 tanks have 175mm armor.

FlatCat #18 Posted Apr 30 2011 - 23:49

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Like the one poster said hit the T-29 in its big Mickey Mouse ears you will soon cut it down to size. And please will people stop this calling for nerfs all the time. I drive an IS and yes the T-29 is hard to handle but I deal with it like the poor T-29 drivers had to deal with my KV on their way to their T-29 when they were in the lower tiers.

Cruor #19 Posted May 01 2011 - 00:46

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To the OP:

I am more afraid of an IS then a T 29. The 122mm gun on the IS hits harder, I don't care about RoF in 2/3 of engagements. I just had a game yesterday where a little rat IS with a 122mm knocked out my T32s gun through its 298mm armor in his first hit. A t29 would of bounced off, or done much less explosive damage. An IS turns on a dime, T29 turns like an air craft carrier. T 29 if I shoot at his hull I am 100% going to do damage, IS it may bounce because of the slopes.

Do I prefer the T29 over an IS? Yes. Is the T29 a great tank for its tier? Yes. Is it OP? Nope. It has a HUGE weak spot, the entire hull from any side. It turns like a boat, as I mentioned. It has slow acceleration. Its "ears" are vulnerable.

If you want to complain about an OP tank, complain about the IS 4. It has the most powerful gun for a tier 9, the best armor for a tier 9, comparable speed to the T34 and better speed then the VK 4502, its weak spots are small and hard to hit. You can only pierce the lower hull, or his side in the suspension area. If you hit any of his damn slopes, you bounce. I bounced with 105mm on his REAR and wasn't at an angle. No US/German tank has ever bounced a rear or side shot for me, ever, in 1000's of games.

Lastly, you can't judge. You don't even have a tier 7 tank. I'll agree the T29 is the best tier 7, but not by a long shot, not the way the IS 4 is.

H_87A_2CU #20 Posted May 01 2011 - 00:48

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Tigerclaw

Bit of a long one here I suppose but please read it does make sense. Call it a rant, but so many "its OP cause it killed me" posts keep appearing. I know they are always going to happen, and love it or hate it Arty has been and always will be one of the biggest for this sort of post (UAV/Gods eye view, or laser pointed deaths anyone???)

I base this on my time on the IS, Tiger and T-29 during beta, because if you look me up you'll see, I, like you, only have Tier 6 tanks (I'm enjoying unlocking all the levels and elite-ing them, not racing through to get PUTTS, however you will see I have a good record, not like some but I would hope a little higher than average). In fact you could say I'm relearning how to play certain vehicle, but enjoying the ride.

Might I suggest that you try the T-29, because trust me once you have you won't complain so. Stock, the T-29 was a shock, slow as, under performing piece of American know how. It costs about 20k just to give it the performance of a semi beached whale with new tracks and Engine. Now before you jump up and down about the IS costing more, yes for the tracks and engine it does, but note you only have the one engine to get to give you the speed bunny effort, where as the T-29 needs a second engine costing another 23k. The Tiger is in a similar boat in fact needing three engines to make it half usable (Hey DEV's hint there). Yes the IS and Tiger stock are also bad....IS not so, Tiger certainly (yes played them in Beta to).

The T-29 came with a very average Gun, being a 76mm M1A2 Gun, that bounced off T8, lots of T7 and in many cases down to T4, although one of your replies below you say that most guns will penetrate reliably....hey the Penetrating gods have been with you, cause on certain days they seem to forsake me for shots on end.

The next Gun is the 90mm from the M6 (don't make the same mistake I did in Beta and not research it). Nice gun and used right can be a game breaker, still bounces of armour of T5 and T6 but then again,if you follow the golden rule..."thou shall not not aim at thy Glacis Plates unless absolutely necessary", you can play well with this one. Finally to the mighty 105mm, wow what a gun, and loved it. Only got about 30 games with it, but still was great...then it got nerfed because IS drivers and others (who were on the receiving end of it) complained wildly about it, the gun the T-29 etc.....) it costs a mighty 40k to get it, plus another 10k (close enough) to put a turret on it to make the whole package. To Compare the IS only requires 27k to give it the top sized gun (lets face it the very top gun of the IS is a ROF change only.....Vents, 100% crews and rammer's help here). The tiger sits in the middle of the three with a good gun first up (unless you are assaulted by T7 or T8 frontally), then goes to a 88mm short...but to get top gun it costs 37k or there abouts....

Unless you get the angles exactly right when playing the T-29, the armour was the same as the Tiger, where a granny throwing a butter knife could pierce it on the Hull, however the turret  is a different matter. I used to do well against the T-29 with the VK series and even my Stug in beta, because I played to my strengths (and their weaknesses). Seeing just the top of a T-29 turret sticking up in the sights was the hint for me to run away bravely, flank and chew the T-29's backside while he was looking else where using the old jedi mind trick of "This bush behind you does not contain an angry Stug, look elsewhere". Used to swear badly when dispersal of my shot caused a Turret hit, but 9 times out of ten I would get good results. However if I saw a IS, it was run home straight to my friendly big brothers, and let them hit him while I tried to flank (and normally die in the process). Tiger, well depending the way it was being played, gave me my tactics.

I won't turn round to you and say learn to play the game, but I will say use the weakness presented to you, all tanks have them. You quote T-28's being in battle with T7 tanks, yes that happens, the Tier 4 tanks are called scouts.....play like one, if you charge a Tier 7 heavy expect to die fast...find a bush and report him....possibly die, but hey arty may have a bit of a Tier 7 cook up to. Additionally if you have a 100% crew, 100% cam and Cam net and get lucky that final shot into the backside of a T-29 who has advanced past you might just be yours.

As to some of your other points, welcome to the rules of randomness, it happens, been sitting in a Tiger Tank watching a T-34 advance towards me thinking angles are wrong, might get a bounce, so I'll wait he hasn't seen me yet but also thinking num num, when he spots, he shoots, he scores, gun, turret and gunner all out of action".

Or you can have VK3601 rolling along the side of a hill, shooting at my team happily, when I spot him in my Stug, I'm side on, I have a HE-AT loaded, I'm bugger all distance away, whole of sights filled by his soon to be ventalated body....

Now I'm sure many TD drivers have lived this one (yes we have all done it, even those of us that say we shot and scoot)........"I shoot, he bounces it....wtf?? ok, gunner works hard gets a reload in before he can see me, I shoot......I hit, I DO NOTHING........I dinged him.....arrrggggg (oh DEV'S what happened to Penetrating values not being effected by range, also 90 degree hits normally explode fuses).....god that turret seems to be turning awfully fast, time to run or shot again...shoot, scores.....straight through no damage......whhhaatttttt oh dear that gun looks big...bang, ouch, tracked....screwed. Followed by screams (I'm sure from their side)....look a screwed Stug lets get him and don't worry about the lube.......

Some people do have a preference of a game where they hit everything they shoot at, get extra abilities, hacks etc and can say I'm superman' look how high I can jump (COD series anyone)......etc. This game does give a certain randomness to it, more in keeping with real life.....sometimes its not how good you are, how good your gear is, how fast you are, how quickly you spot, how you react or how good you can shoot. Yes all those are a help, and will get you through most of the time, but there are times and places when it was just the fact that lady luck is on your side today....and she's a fickle lady at the best of times......




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