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Why are most russian heavy drivers so god awful?


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Black_berett #61 Posted Jun 03 2011 - 06:56

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Russian drivers suck cause they are drunk most of the time from vodka :)

Yellow13 #62 Posted Jun 03 2011 - 07:18

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View PostZiggyDeath, on May 04 2011 - 19:47, said:

Russian tanks generally have abysmal view range. The IS has 400, Tiger 420 and T29 430.
But, the flip side to this, which is a bit more difficult to experience, is the fact that Russian tanks do have better natural camo.
anyone else lol cause you noticed the Tiger's viewrange is 420?  ;)

HellinPelican #63 Posted Jun 03 2011 - 07:44

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i think there is a more than average amount of people who run to the russian heavies because of all the OP talk.
Therefore your going to get more of the "noob" demographic.
The american heavies have a terrible grind to them (m3 lee), same with the germans and the PZ III/III A
the russian grind isn't so bad. So the KV is the easiest heavy to get, plus the Russian tanks appear nerf proof so your investment in time is safe.
That said, players who really want the german and american tanks tend to have played the game alot more and thus you see less bad ones.
That said i've seen a ton of bad T1/M6 players.

However nothing gets me madder then when i see KV's w/the KV-2 turret and they don't have the 107 or 152.

johncage #64 Posted Jun 03 2011 - 23:52

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anecdotal evidence is worthless. so you've run into bad players who happen to be using russians tanks at the time. hardly conclusive enough to make the statement "most russian heavy drivers..."

MagicSquid #65 Posted Jun 05 2011 - 07:25

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View Postjohncage, on Jun 03 2011 - 23:52, said:

anecdotal evidence is worthless. so you've run into bad players who happen to be using russians tanks at the time. hardly conclusive enough to make the statement "most russian heavy drivers..."

You're correct that anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but I think it's not necessarily worthless. Taken by itself, an instance of Russian tank drivers performing poorly can be chalked up to just one poor player.

However, when you've played thousands of games, you start to notice trends developing.

Stuff like this, seems almost commonplace:

Before

After

:mellow:

...And things start to move from being anecdotal to being actual evidence, after you see stuff like that enough times.

RolandVH #66 Posted Jun 05 2011 - 10:59

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Just moments ago I had an enemy IS-4 drive by himself into my team's base on Mountain Pass. He killed one SPG and was promptly killed by myself [Panther], our surviving SPG, and an ISU working together. He thought he could drive into our base and slaughter us like lambs, but he found a pack of wolves instead.

Soviet tanks just make bad habits. They think they're invulnerable, and sometimes it clouds their thought.

TinBane #67 Posted Jun 06 2011 - 02:46

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Wow.
It's funny to see the outright stupidity permeating some of the posts in this thread.
Especially the "herp de derp" racist "vodka" posts.

Put it back in your pants.

The russian line teaches bad habits, because of the KV and KV3.
And particularly, because of the 152mm and 107mm cannons.

The 152 does so much damage for it's tier, and has such a large splash, that you aim at the glacis plate of most tanks and it takes out 20% of their HP, along with their driver. Heaven forbid you hit them in the back (although to be fair, you deserve a 152 mm round up the backside if you let a KV or KV3 flank you).

These tanks feature powerful armour and weapons.

The 107 is even worse. It's alpha damage is massive, it's penetration amazing, and it punches well above it's introduction tier. Which is Tier 5.

I've played though the KV and KV 3, and they are easy tanks to play with. But they are boring.

I think the problem isn't the tanks, it's the cannons. The 107 needs a reload or damage nerf. Or alternatively, it should be stripped from the KV2, as it's not really accurate (AFAIK) on that tank. The 107 was never on the KV1, and the KV2 only ever had the 152mm.

On the downside, the KV and KV3 are stupidly hard to stealth. They are slow, and prone to dying from arty fire.

What you learn on these tanks, is to do one of two things: Play smart or play risky and then switch tank and start a new battle.

The 107 and 152 (more the 107) need to be addressed to fix balance for the KV and KV3.

After that, the IS, IS3, IS4, IS7 etc, are not dominant tanks. They are now overpowered compared to their US and German counterparts.

Bad players get those tanks, because they can farm the XP up with their KV and KV3, and then it makes sense to keep going.
You then see them fail hard in battles, because they don't understand that the nature of protection, and the nature of heavy tanks changed during WWII.

There's a reason that half the German heavy tanks never saw service.
There's a reason that most of the US heavy tanks never saw service.
There's a reason that the high tier soviet tanks start acting more and more like medium tanks.

Because in the real world, the heavy tank concept failed.

As someone who plays Soviet tanks primarily, I have to say the US and USSR tank drivers are on par.
I'd say that people playing German tanks, usually have it a bit harder, and by the time they are tier VII, most know how to play.

But I think every group has people who just don't get it.

It's not just soviet tanks trying to make up a force of 10 heavies to squeeze through a TD-friendly chokepoint.
It's not just soviet tanks that go ahead and crest hills, only to be torn apart by shells.

Usually it's not a Tiger though :P~

AgentQ #68 Posted Jun 06 2011 - 15:20

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View PostRolandVH, on Jun 05 2011 - 10:59, said:

Just moments ago I had an enemy IS-4 drive by himself into my team's base on Mountain Pass. He killed one SPG and was promptly killed by myself [Panther], our surviving SPG, and an ISU working together. He thought he could drive into our base and slaughter us like lambs, but he found a pack of wolves instead.

Soviet tanks just make bad habits. They think they're invulnerable, and sometimes it clouds their thought.

Well, i had a game yesterday. 2 is-4 charged a camping enemy base. one died real fast. the other rampaged and killed 5 tanks. everyone is like wow.

SuperiorBeen #69 Posted Jun 10 2011 - 14:24

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Because IS is a crappy tank with a crappy weapon that is put to fight T8-T10 tanks. You are forced to brawl but this tank has no armor. And the aiming and reload time for the 122m is just stupid.

ARGO #70 Posted Jun 10 2011 - 14:46

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View PostAndante, on May 04 2011 - 18:42, said:

I've been noticing this more and more, russian heavies drivers are terrible generally speaking... (I'm not saying all, there are some good russian heavy drivers out there, but not many)

Especially IS drivers, I myself am a predominately an IS driver, and I've been having a blast. I've also been team countless times with other IS drivers who are just fail, complete fail.

They for instance can't even camo themselves properly with their fronts protruding out of the bushes. They are no idea or realization of using angles with your armor to bounce shots. I once tried to explain to a fellow IS driver the merits of using angles with his armor after he got killed in a head long fight with another heavy... and it was like trying to explain quantum mechanics to a special ed kid.

Another time I saw an IS driver on my team complain about how T29s are so OP... after watching him fire several AP rounds at the TURRET of the T29, and those weren't even flanking shots either.

It just seems like most russian heavy drivers expect their shells to penetrate regardless of aim, and for their armor to automatically block or bounce shots.

Anyways, please explain why the russian heavy line seems to attract the short bus in such droves.



It's not only just the Russian tanks, it's any "flavor of the month" tanks sprinkled in with a serious case of P.U.T.T.S. "Premature, Upper, Tank, Tier, Syndrome" and you got yourself a reciepe for failure each and everytime.  Right now we are inendated with a large amount of Lowe + KV5 drivers who have not spent much time learning the trees and going into matches unprepared and with the "I am God" complex only to get pawned badly and ofcourse take the team with them.  I do agree with some of the prior posts and also with your theories but again there is a lot of lemmings out there who follow the crowd.  It's really pretty simple, If you just take the time and learn the tiers then your gonna win a lot more and have a lot more fun. I will happily admit that my current stats now Vs. pre-wipe are night and day and that's proof positive that having gone through the rigors of climbing each teir the 1st time around really paid off.

KillerAyvaz #71 Posted Jun 11 2011 - 13:12

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What you have to realize is that different tanks have different advantages. The KV series is basically tanks that are pretty well armored and equiped, but slow because of it. Its not that Russian tank drivers dont have skills, its that neither them nor the US tank drivers do. When both of them dont have skills, a t1 or m6 driver will just meet the kv or kv-3 face to face and fight that way...the KV wins of course. Thus they think its op, they dont have enough skills to use their tank for its advantages, the speed. Also because of this, the KV drivers think that their tank dominates everything, because it doesnt, not if the enemy knows what its doing. Its actually halarious that even a t1 or m6 can circle a kv or kv-3 and evade the gun. Point is the KV series isn't OP, its just more user friendly.

What happens when the IS series begins, is a complete switch. The US get their t29 with an impermiable turret, and the low skill drivers either aim at it cuz its an easy target, or auto aim and hit it that way, ultimately same result, bounce. The t29 drivers can do the same, but the IS wounnt bounce of course, it is now the low armor fast tank. Its all about being knowledgable about your, and the enemies, weakness and exploiting them to your advantage, and low skill players cant do that no matter which side they are on.

Most people that claim that a tank is OP are just that, low skilled, and unable to use it right. Sorry if I offend anyone, not saying everyone is.
Also don't be fooled by the people that tell you that you can't get skills until you drive American or German heavies, that just a synonym for "Russian tanks are OP", and you know what that means :)

Also didnt mention the German drivers since they dont have a heavy at the KV - KV-3 level.

Hey you, the reader! Yea i'm talking to you! Hi, hows it going man(or woman)!?

Let the -1ing commence!

Charlton #72 Posted Jun 11 2011 - 14:06

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View PostAndante, on May 04 2011 - 18:42, said:

I've been noticing this more and more, russian heavies drivers are terrible generally speaking... (I'm not saying all, there are some good russian heavy drivers out there, but not many)

Especially IS drivers, I myself am a predominately an IS driver, and I've been having a blast. I've also been team countless times with other IS drivers who are just fail, complete fail.

They for instance can't even camo themselves properly with their fronts protruding out of the bushes. They are no idea or realization of using angles with your armor to bounce shots. I once tried to explain to a fellow IS driver the merits of using angles with his armor after he got killed in a head long fight with another heavy... and it was like trying to explain quantum mechanics to a special ed kid.

Another time I saw an IS driver on my team complain about how T29s are so OP... after watching him fire several AP rounds at the TURRET of the T29, and those weren't even flanking shots either.

It just seems like most russian heavy drivers expect their shells to penetrate regardless of aim, and for their armor to automatically block or bounce shots.

Anyways, please explain why the russian heavy line seems to attract the short bus in such droves.


Maybe because you played the beta and are just uber better than other people, you say your are primarily IS driver, but most games are in the Is3 and 4? So which do you drive more not the IS.

Foksuh #73 Posted Jun 11 2011 - 14:31

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I think theres bad players on all tanks and spg's and td's. People who dont know how to hide, people who dont know how to aim or where to aim and people who dont know when to move..

I've seen people play dumb on every possible vehicle, though if you want me to address the IS's, the only problem I can think of is all the talk about how IS's are so powerful and better than Germans/US blah blah.
Its the overconfidence that gets you killed in heavies so often, and it sometimes shows in the use of the high tier premium tanks when people havent grown into using a heavy.

A lot of people who dont have heavies of their own think heavies are hard to kill and can take a lot of punishment but thats not true, heavies go down really fast when you dont know what youre doing or when you rush in blindly.. heavies rely on the rest of the team as much as everyone else. It is a team game and everyone has a job in the team.

Druterium #74 Posted Jun 11 2011 - 21:40

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I dunno, I think if some people play the KV and KV-3 enough, they end up dropping their god complex and realizing that they're slow as hell and can't sit in the open between their huge reload delays. Over time, the less I treated these vehicles like "tanks" designed to march forward and act as meatshields, the more success I had in them.

Halsinki #75 Posted Jun 11 2011 - 22:14

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Statistically speaking some of these arguments are completely baseless. Unless you can personally participate in every concurrent match being played out to observe then you are basically just stereotyping with limited data.

The three heavy lines have their pros and cons yes; and it's up to the players to either develop their playing style to the preferred tank or simply switch to one that fits them better outright. Being a medium driver I find that I usually salivate when I see a KV - IS on the field. However, I find myself surprised often with a good driver in them. Quality of the players is just as random as the quality of the vehicles and matchmaking. In my first five battles in the T43 I had four fuel tank fires (boom) and the fifth game I took one shot in the ammo rack (boom). After a decent number of battles it actually had decent stats and I had just a few more fires.

Random is random.... If you could develop a linear equation that solves for multiple variables then the "every Russian heavy driver sucks" would have more merit. As it stands now... it is what it is... random is random.

Rockstar72 #76 Posted Jun 12 2011 - 00:29

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I bet a bunch of them still use auto-aim  :lol:

Hellya #77 Posted Jun 12 2011 - 01:50

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I just started the Russian line after my hard grinds elsewhere. I look forward to many battles of being crap with all Russian tanks to keep up the good name that people are giving them. Op flavour of the month noobmobile with 0 skill required.

Bring me luck of great tank god!

Hellya

Elite_Camper #78 Posted Jun 12 2011 - 03:56

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From what I've seen Lowe drivers seem to be pretty bad.

johncage #79 Posted Jun 12 2011 - 04:16

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hey i ran into a few guys who suck at using spgs, all arty players suck.

/logic

SuperiorBeen #80 Posted Jun 12 2011 - 13:56

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Stop this generalizing BS. I've seen a lot of KT drivers exposing their side armor where there was no reason to do it. Its not like they were getting flanked or something. They were just careless.  :blink: