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knifefighting arty


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Artyist #1 Posted May 08 2011 - 19:01

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I was introduced to WoT by my BF. He is a dedicated arty player. Last night, I watched him take one of those big t-6 arty to the enemy base to cap it. He ended up shooting in direct-fire and actually won against the two defenders (also arty).

eventually, a pair of tanks came after him and he didn't stand a chance (he shot his last round in DF as they approached... and it bounced).

My question is: how often does arty end up firing in DF mode? I was thinking of going all-arty; but I see arty does not get a good sight for DF mode.

Lert #2 Posted May 08 2011 - 19:02

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They do not get a good sight for direct fire because it's not their role, and it's supposed to be a last-ditch effort. A smart artillery player in a good team should never have to use it.

DemonicSpoon #3 Posted May 08 2011 - 19:06

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Direct fire for SPGs is very much a crapshoot. In fact, I normally resort to using the overhead camera to aim even at close range because otherwise it seems to miss constantly.

Direct fire works when you can one-shot the target, and you hit. IF you miss, you're dead, and if it survives the shot, you're dead. It can be really, really cool when direct-fire works and you save yourself because of it, but don't rely on it.

In general, as an SPG, you want to avoid situations where that would be necessary.

Sadukar09 #4 Posted May 08 2011 - 19:35

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Best thing to do if you need to use direct fire is to depress your gun as much as you can go, then hold the right mouse button to lock the gun in place. Then scoot around and aim via hull traverse.

Greneral_Maow #5 Posted May 08 2011 - 19:39

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View PostArtyist, on May 08 2011 - 19:01, said:

My question is: how often does arty end up firing in DF mode? I was thinking of going all-arty; but I see arty does not get a good sight for DF mode.
Try tank destroyers. Marder, stug, su-85 are all powerful for their tier and good choices.

81firebird #6 Posted May 08 2011 - 19:56

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Once in a while you end up in direct fire mode when defending. A few like doing it as offensive role. I know there is actually an in game badge if you get at least 5 direct fire kills in a match. Someone in beta asked me if i was trying for it when I direct fire killed 3 players trying to storm our base while in my M37, being the only defender/arty in game.

If you get raided, DF is the only real way to defend up close, but I may be crazy, but am not suicidal enough to try and take it to them in arty :)

Artyist #7 Posted May 08 2011 - 20:06

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<shudder> I see. If I am on a good team; I should have a 'protector I can rely on and can support him in his effort.

If not on a good team...

Judging from what I have seen watching my BF play... I think I better practice DF in arty.

Sabin76 #8 Posted May 08 2011 - 20:15

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View Post81firebird, on May 08 2011 - 19:56, said:

Once in a while you end up in direct fire mode when defending. A few like doing it as offensive role. I know there is actually an in game badge if you get at least 5 direct fire kills in a match. Someone in beta asked me if i was trying for it when I direct fire killed 3 players trying to storm our base while in my M37, being the only defender/arty in game.

If you get raided, DF is the only real way to defend up close, but I may be crazy, but am not suicidal enough to try and take it to them in arty :)

Damn, I never knew that one.  I was one away then in my Grille.  I can't believe how lucky I was, but I got 4 kills defending our base as the last man standing.  They were stupid enough to come in 1 by 1, but they eventually got me.  I'll have to actively try for 5 at some point in my arty's career.

magi1007 #9 Posted May 08 2011 - 20:30

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I Use my Grille often in a offensive way of gaming. The closer you are, the higher are the chances of good hits and a high dealed damage. But moving is more neccesary, when you are closer. So you have to have a small mobile arty. Dont know, if the Hummel is able to fit my kind of gaming, but I'm pretty shure, the GW Panther does.

KilljoyCutter #10 Posted May 08 2011 - 23:09

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As an arty player, I have to say that if I am direct firing, my team is either losing badly, or failed to protect their rear area.

Of course, a lot of teams fail to protect their rear area...


I love how that perfectly valid technical term ends up describing what those teams are doing to themselves.

Victoranith #11 Posted May 08 2011 - 23:49

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you shount have to direct fire. if you do its usually against light tanks who tries to eat you for breakfast, and you should be able to either ohk them or bust them up real bad.

if you miss the first shot, you MIGHT get another, depending on how smart your oponent/you is, and how fast your gun loads

if you miss the second, you're unlikely to get a third.


if a good light tank gets within 25m of you SPG you're dead. so start shooting at them as soon as you spot them. i use auto aim cause- its very hard to aim at 5fps, and the short distance means it's less likely to miss due to the speed of their tank and your shell.

Benco97 #12 Posted May 08 2011 - 23:51

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I like to play with my Sturmpanzer II and I often direct fire things.
However, this is because I play as "Close support" artillery, I'm right there behind our tanks, not sitting in our base.

tankboy1138 #13 Posted May 08 2011 - 23:58

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On himmelsdorf, it's almost a must! :P got 4 kills in direct fire mode on ensk, driving an SU-18. 1 more kill was regular mode. Honestly, it's rather effective, if you know what you're doing. Epic story:
driving an m-37 on cliff, when a marder 2 and a T1 heavy raid our base. the marder takes me down to 7 HP before I'm able to get out of it's firing range. however, the T1 rushes in for the easy kill. So, I decide to go down swinging. I shoot him once, hit. he fires 2 shots from 60-50 meters away and misses. I fire again, and he pulls off 2 more shots from 40-30 meters. Down to the wire, we're 20 meters apart. he fires AGAIN and misses by inches. I finish him off. That was luck, but arty can go assault. don't be afraid to use it, it can be effective with a little luck and a good setup.

whiterice #14 Posted May 09 2011 - 14:42

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View Postmagi1007, on May 08 2011 - 20:30, said:

I Use my Grille often in a offensive way of gaming. The closer you are, the higher are the chances of good hits and a high dealed damage. But moving is more neccesary, when you are closer. So you have to have a small mobile arty. Dont know, if the Hummel is able to fit my kind of gaming, but I'm pretty shure, the GW Panther does.


I'm not sure I fully understand your logic here.

Yes, closer = more accuracy, but not necessarily more damage.  Moving around, not as necessary; I usually find myself repositioning if I need a better LOS on targets, if enemy tanks break through near me, or if arty is scouting me out.  As far as your tank selection, the Grille is decently quick with a narrow traverse range, so moving around isn't such a big deal.  The Hummel in my opinion suits the playstyle you've stated the best - it's fast and it hits a lot harder than your Grille.  You'll find stories all around of assault Hummels firing in direct fire mode.  The GW Panther is slower, more on par with the Grille, and both the Panther and Hummel can easily shoot across the map and both have much larger turret traverse ranges than the Grille, which encourages you to stay still more, because once you get targeted into a small bubble, you can retain that small bubble over larger areas.

Deathskyz #15 Posted May 09 2011 - 15:03

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The most effective arty for Direct Fire mode would be the Hummel.

Its fast, nimble and turns really well. On more than one occasion i managed to CIRCLE STRAFE KV-2s.

The gun on the Hummel may not be so accurate, but that doesnt matter since with the speed it just fires those rounds near point blank (Firing Arty HE Shells point blank is a no-go. Splash damage will damage or destroy you)


But yeah, Direct Fire mode is really a last resort, but if a very skilled arty player uses it, it can be effective.

MadBadger #16 Posted May 09 2011 - 15:42

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Direct fire in arty is a bit of a trick. You need to keep in mind that the gun fires in a ballistic arc as opposed to the straight-line fire of tanks and TDs.

Also, I read somewhere that the arty sight focuses on ground level whereever it touches, whether in arty mode or direct fire. So that means if you point high at the turret, your sight may actually be pointing at a spot on the ground way behind the turret and firing a ballistic high arc to reach it... completely overshooting the tank.

I haven't experimented with it too much yet (things are pretty hectic if something is close enough to me for DF) but it seems to work best when I point my sight at a spot on the ground that I think is about the center of the target. Then the shell normally slams into them a little above ground.

You might try to lure some poor innocents into a training room and ask them to stand still while you test some firing angles on them.  Promise them it won't hurt.  No, really!

KilljoyCutter #17 Posted May 09 2011 - 19:52

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View PostMadBadger, on May 09 2011 - 15:42, said:

Direct fire in arty is a bit of a trick. You need to keep in mind that the gun fires in a ballistic arc as opposed to the straight-line fire of tanks and TDs.

Also, I read somewhere that the arty sight focuses on ground level whereever it touches, whether in arty mode or direct fire. So that means if you point high at the turret, your sight may actually be pointing at a spot on the ground way behind the turret and firing a ballistic high arc to reach it... completely overshooting the tank.

I haven't experimented with it too much yet (things are pretty hectic if something is close enough to me for DF) but it seems to work best when I point my sight at a spot on the ground that I think is about the center of the target. Then the shell normally slams into them a little above ground.

You might try to lure some poor innocents into a training room and ask them to stand still while you test some firing angles on them.  Promise them it won't hurt.  No, really!


You know, the tip about the sighting might be a very good one -- it never occured to me that the aim might be for something behind the tank when looking at the direct fire sights.  I guess I just assumed that while it was firing in an arc, it would be angling to hit what I had the crosshairs on in that mode.

Sword_of_Light #18 Posted May 09 2011 - 20:56

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I've seen SPGs used as assault guns, and used effectively, its just not a good idea at low tiers.  I've seen low-tier aty roll up, and I'm thinking 'seriously?  You want me to have free xp?  Ok.'  Even in my Marder, most smaller aty are easy pickings, tier 2s are pretty much one-shots.  However - and let me state from the word go that I hate Leos - there are times when you've gotta.  Say, your entire team has flanked right, and are now cursing you for not providing fire support ... because you're busy dealing with that damned Leopard.

I've found the mistake a lot of SPG players make is backing up - PANIC!  Run away! No.  You're a slow, lightly armored target that cant pivot nearly as fast as that damned Leo.  I find that an aggressive posture - charging your enemy, closing while using cover, ramming and thumbing the trigger - these are all viable strategies.  Especially if you're in a T-57, you can load relatively quickly, and you've got a big boom.  Likely you're still gonna die, but its also possible that you'll core that tank you're fighting - or on two separate occasions, I've charged the tanks charging me, killed them, and earned the Kamikaze badge.

-Don

KilljoyCutter #19 Posted May 09 2011 - 22:04

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View PostSword_of_Light, on May 09 2011 - 20:56, said:

I've seen SPGs used as assault guns, and used effectively, its just not a good idea at low tiers.  I've seen low-tier aty roll up, and I'm thinking 'seriously?  You want me to have free xp?  Ok.'  Even in my Marder, most smaller aty are easy pickings, tier 2s are pretty much one-shots.  However - and let me state from the word go that I hate Leos - there are times when you've gotta.  Say, your entire team has flanked right, and are now cursing you for not providing fire support ... because you're busy dealing with that damned Leopard.

Indeed.  If people want fire support, they need to keep the enemy off you.  

I've lost track of the number of games in which enemy fast-movers are allowed to get into the rear area before I even have a chance to set up.  What is so hard for people about keeping the enemy off the arty and the base for just a few minutes, even?

YusefAdama #20 Posted May 09 2011 - 23:02

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Practice DF,of course if your in that scenario your gonna get some,I found that aiming at the hull as low as possible, will take account the arc of the shell,one shot DF,Gotta love it.
They never expect it,
Bob




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