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There are TWO elements to winning a battle


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sgtrel #1 Posted May 08 2011 - 20:06

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I have been playing this game for about 2 months now and it looks like some old and mostly new  players are only getting one part of the concept on how to play and win at this game they got it down to go out find and destroy the enemies of which you get points for but also you need to think about the capturing of the enemies base example:being out numbered 3 tanks to 5 (you have 3 and the enemy has 5) useualy the enemy has more fire power or Bigger tanks . so just think about it the next time and said to your self is it worth me trying to kill all the enemies tanks with your % down to 10 and getting one more enemy tank or destroying some of the tanks then capturing the base? The BEST DEFENSE IS A GOOD OFFENSE

Vrekgar #2 Posted May 09 2011 - 07:14

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Sometimes the best defense, is a good defense.

Almost always the winning strategy revolves around putting your strongest tanks in the position to assault weaker tanks without the interference of the enemies strong tanks.

You have tactics revolveing around pinning enemies behind cover and dispatching a flanker to either eliminate or spot the enemy for arty/defender.

Suicide scouts, which dont HAVE to die but its a dangerous job, can be very useful if you and they know where to go and when.

There are only 2 real win conditions. Eliminate all opposition, or Capture the enemies base. Both are viable but generally the total elimination is more likely.

The problem with your scenario is supposing 2 of the enemy tanks are TD's covering the flag while the rest assault yours. TD's can inflict significant damage right off the bat and 2 playing support like that means your going to have a tough time not loosing anybody to them. In outnumbered scenarios you really need to look at the composition and condition of the survivors.

Hobbe #3 Posted May 09 2011 - 07:37

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I play the game to shoot the crap out of noobs.

Not have a big love-in peace-fest playing Ring-A-Round the Maypole.

Lougle #4 Posted May 09 2011 - 08:07

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View PostGnarlene, on May 09 2011 - 07:37, said:

I play the game to shoot the crap out of noobs.

Not have a big love-in peace-fest playing Ring-A-Round the Maypole.


"Do not follow the blood thirsty advice of teammates.  Killing all enemy tanks is not a requirement for victory"  -Pop up hints  :D:D

Maggoty #5 Posted May 09 2011 - 08:09

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View Postsgtrel, on May 08 2011 - 20:06, said:

I have been playing this game for about 2 months now and it looks like some old and mostly new  players are only getting one part of the concept on how to play and win at this game they got it down to go out find and destroy the enemies of which you get points for but also you need to think about the capturing of the enemies base example:being out numbered 3 tanks to 5 (you have 3 and the enemy has 5) useualy the enemy has more fire power or Bigger tanks . so just think about it the next time and said to your self is it worth me trying to kill all the enemies tanks with your % down to 10 and getting one more enemy tank or destroying some of the tanks then capturing the base? The BEST DEFENSE IS A GOOD OFFENSE

This is very true, I call it firepower math. Frequently people try to rush back to defend the base but they don't even arrive together. So they die one by one without getting the plink they need to reset the timer even.

I try to get people in matches to send one maybe 2 guys back to sneak into position and get some plinks while the rest of the team races for their flag.

View PostVrekgar, on May 09 2011 - 07:14, said:

Sometimes the best defense, is a good defense.

Almost always the winning strategy revolves around putting your strongest tanks in the position to assault weaker tanks without the interference of the enemies strong tanks.

You have tactics revolveing around pinning enemies behind cover and dispatching a flanker to either eliminate or spot the enemy for arty/defender.

Suicide scouts, which dont HAVE to die but its a dangerous job, can be very useful if you and they know where to go and when.

There are only 2 real win conditions. Eliminate all opposition, or Capture the enemies base. Both are viable but generally the total elimination is more likely.

The problem with your scenario is supposing 2 of the enemy tanks are TD's covering the flag while the rest assault yours. TD's can inflict significant damage right off the bat and 2 playing support like that means your going to have a tough time not loosing anybody to them. In outnumbered scenarios you really need to look at the composition and condition of the survivors.

The best offense involves a good defense, and the best defense involves a good offense. Figure that out and you're a long way to understanding how to win whole wars, much less battles.

Suicide scouting isn't needed in the least. While the job is inherently dangerous, it does not need to be suicidally dangerous. Also, avoiding contact with your strongest tanks at best puts you on even ground with them as their strong tanks rampage through your teammates, while your doing the same. The goal should be to gain an advantage not another status quo. As such your objective should be to somehow get your heavies into an advantageous position on their heavies. Quite simply if your strong tanks are still around and they have low level mediums, scouts, arty and TDs left, it's just mop up time, and you should still have the bulk of your support units as well.

And if proper communication was used, he would know that only three out of five tanks are advancing, which would change his decision.

View PostGnarlene, on May 09 2011 - 07:37, said:

I play the game to shoot the crap out of noobs.

Not have a big love-in peace-fest playing Ring-A-Round the Maypole.

Great if your ever on my team remind me that your not in this to win, only to get face pwned by a bait and switch ambush.

pekiti #6 Posted May 09 2011 - 10:15

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Combat, even computer simulated game style combat, cannot be boiled down into one or two quick 'always correct' rules. There are far too many variables to line it all out mathematically and come up with a 'guaranteed-to-win' strategy for all situations. Moltke called it the Fog of War....that cloud of unknowables that affect how every battle will turn out.

As a general guideline though, Maggoty gave solid advice.

Your team will usually win if you:

Apply your strength to the enemy weakness.
Work together instead of individually, especially in terms of communicating threats.
Constantly evaluate the situation, and adapt your tactics to the needs of the moment.
Use the terrain around you to your advantage at all times.

Some things you can do (personally), to help increase your team's chance of winning:

As a scout, don't suicide rush, unless you have a very specific target and and excellent chance of success. Taking out the enemy's only artillery unit, early in the match, is perhaps the only good example. However, as long as you are alive, you are a threat to the enemy that they must react to...and you can help your team more by staying alive as a scout than you can by dying in a fire. A live scout is a dangerous one. A dead one is a morale boost for the enemy.

When you get killed, don't spam chat with foolish rage/spam. Instead, tell your team what killed you, and what state you left it in when you died. "T14 here, hes at 22% now" is much more helpful than "That sucked, I'm outta here'.

Once you are in death cam mode, swivel your view around and see what the enemy is doing. Telling your team what else is in the area, and what they are doing might save lives and turn the battle in your favor. "That T14 just parked in the  dark green bush on the south side of the house in G2. He's facing west." (Artillery slams the bush, tracking the T14) "You tracked him, good shot." (Team rushes the crippled T14 now, or the arty knows its OK to take another shot once they reload).

Don't ever ping the minimap without an explanation. Don't ever spam the minimap, even if you think its a cool way to show the route you want others to take. Every ping uses a line of chat, which means while you are spamming the minimap, nobody else can communicate.

Read everything you can (in these forums) about your chosen vehicle. Know your tank's strengths, its weaknesses, and its best/worst tactic. Some tanks are better for flanking, some are better for ambushing, some for rushing in close, others for sniping, etc.


Finally, remember this: No one can guarantee success in battle, only deserve it.

fritz3d #7 Posted May 09 2011 - 11:31

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The chief element to winning a battle is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... The TWO chief elements to winning a battle are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... The *three* elements to winning a battle are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Team.... The *four*...no... *Amongst* the elements to winning a battle...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.

Herr_Klug #8 Posted May 09 2011 - 12:25

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View Postfritz3d, on May 09 2011 - 11:31, said:

The chief element to winning a battle is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... The TWO chief elements to winning a battle are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... The *three* elements to winning a battle are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Team.... The *four*...no... *Amongst* the elements to winning a battle...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.

^^ This.

Turlagh #9 Posted May 09 2011 - 12:33

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I've been in lost battles when a couple teammates go for the fifteen kills instead of the base capture which we could have done with the help of the "hunters".

And I have won a few when we were down by three and we got the capture while the other side was going for the 15 kills and not protecting their base. Plus you can get the new battle started sooner

Base capture > 15 kills.

ARGO #10 Posted May 09 2011 - 15:14

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View Postsgtrel, on May 08 2011 - 20:06, said:

I have been playing this game for about 2 months now and it looks like some old and mostly new  players are only getting one part of the concept on how to play and win at this game they got it down to go out find and destroy the enemies of which you get points for but also you need to think about the capturing of the enemies base example:being out numbered 3 tanks to 5 (you have 3 and the enemy has 5) useualy the enemy has more fire power or Bigger tanks . so just think about it the next time and said to your self is it worth me trying to kill all the enemies tanks with your % down to 10 and getting one more enemy tank or destroying some of the tanks then capturing the base? The BEST DEFENSE IS A GOOD OFFENSE






A good Offensive will get your team to the flag my friend, But only a great Defense will help you take it.  I cannot tell you how many times I have seen some great plans go down the tubes because of a shattered defense and why?  Most of your vets will tell you that keeping a force back at the base to protect arty can buy your attack time to take the flag when forces are split. Nothings worse then the whole team running for glory only to find that they have been ninja capped.  You can even see this played out in most sports as well.  What good is hockey when your goalie sucks? We have all seen how far a football team goes with crappy defense. And can you imagine the NY Yankees with a 3rd rate outfield?  Yes you need a good solid offense that's no doubt, but without a good plan and a better defence, your only half way to a win and those odds do not make Exp well.

jdtherocker #11 Posted May 09 2011 - 15:22

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the 2 elements in my honest opinion is

Teamwork and communication if you dont have those 2 you have tanks going all by themselves right into enemy defences.

KilljoyCutter #12 Posted May 09 2011 - 15:29

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So many teams will not be teams, just 10 to 12 players rushing off in random directions for glory and kills and circle-stafe lulz, that if your team organizes, concentrates its attack in one place, and defends smartly against enemy movement in the other 2 general (most maps) approaches, you will win more often than not by a visible margin.  Kills, glory, lulz, none of these compare to winning the battle.

MadBadger #13 Posted May 09 2011 - 15:34

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Call me crazy but I actually play games to have FUN!  Yes, I know, you can now ostracize me for being the obvious mutant alien that I am.

I understand strategy, tactics, maneuver, all that. Value of a good plan, yes yes. Being patient, let them come to your strength, yah yah yah.

However, when all is said and done, I don't play to WIN I play to have FUN!  So no, I don't always camp Campinovka, I don't always rush the hill on Pagorki, I don't lay in wait in the Enchanted Forest for those juicy little halfling-tanks to wander into my web.

Usually, winning is fun. Unless everyone is sitting around like bumps on a log grimly waiting for the other side to make the first mistake. Then it's time to get a bit crazy. Not suicide-uselessly crazy, but try-something-different shake things up kinda crazy.

Do you get blasted a lot when you do that?  Well yeah, you kinda do.  :)  Do you end up with less-than-1337 stats?  Sure.  Do you have some fun and learn some new techniques along the way. Yes indeed.

It's true there are (in current games at least) two keys to winning battle: destroy enemy tanks as efficiently as possible, and cap their base as quickly and dependably as possible. But don't forget to have fun along the way.

charybds #14 Posted May 09 2011 - 16:02

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The main strategic problem in the game as it stands atm is the 25-30% of any given team who do basically nothing except provide extra targets to the opposition.
Putting pretty much any strategy at the mercy of it's random weak links (who can be impossible to identify until they sit unmoving as a wolf pack sweeps them away)

Most teams lack basic situational awareness for a variety of reasons but I suspect a lot of people are just coasting on the efforts of others and not really contributing to the team.




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