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Tiger I Frustrating


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Kruppstahlterminator #121 Posted Aug 22 2010 - 18:42

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View Postrisenbones, on Aug 22 2010 - 15:30, said:

Is the Tiger the first heavy tank you have played?  If so that explains alot.  A heavy tank is a much different beast than a medium.  First and most important you now have 3 bars hovering over your tank what this means is your now a priority target.  Not just for artillery but for everything else.  Secondly your probably expecting far to much from the tank.  Your not an invincable death dealing machine especially not straight out of the box your more a bigger easier to see TD that can turn your gun 360 degrees.  Your turret is slow though so to speed it up you have to turn the whole tank with the turret.

Ther are a few things you can do to ease the pain.

1. Stick with the other heavies evan if you don't like where they are going 2 heavies are much better than 1.  You can help cover each others flanks and people now have to choose what they shoot at.

2. Learn the spots where your safe from artillery. Use the cover to reload your gun and then come out and shoot. then go back into cover.

3. Don't carry a full rack of ammo ever.  You will get through most battles with less than 20 rounds fired as long as you choose your targets wisely.  This as mentioned above will reduce the number of ammo rack explosions evan if your on fire though it will still happen occasionly.

4. The tank will get much better with upgrades and more experianced crew.  I've found that once your crew gets over 80% the number of sub system damages is much less.  Also do gun reasearch first followed by suspension then radio then engine last.  Put off buying the slower turret and biggest gun until you have the suspension upgrade to make up for slow turret traverse.

At least thats been my experiance with the KV a teir 5 heavy.
Yep, the Tiger is my first heavy.

Thanks for the tips so far.

I played the day with only 20 racks and didn't explode again.

But there is still one thin to mention: One battle i destroyed a KV, 2 Pz IV and damaged one Tiger II down to 40% and still got only bout 4000 profit. That doesn't seem soooo great :(

And two more questions (at all, if you be so friendly to answer):
1. Should i buy the best engine (25.000 expierince and ~90.000 Money) or is the second best (750 PS) good enough?
2. When my crew reach 100%, what is the best to train them?
I had planed to skill 3 on repair and 2 on fire (Hiding didn't convince me so good) but what do you think?

Triple0 #122 Posted Aug 22 2010 - 18:50

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yeah fire+repairs are a good choice

about the engine, im using the 2nd best engine (7xx HP) and it allows me to travel pretty much at 30km/h after 2 - 3 seconds. so its fine for now. upgrade ur turret and gun first, then tracks buy the radio if u have enough money then get the final engine

Sander93 #123 Posted Aug 22 2010 - 20:14

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The engine is the last part you should research. The basic one can handle the 30km/h top speed and only lacks in turning/climbing power, but the occasions you really need that are rare. It's better to have everything else upgraded first. Crappy engine also helps to ajust to a more defensive styled gameplay anyway.

luwinkle #124 Posted Aug 22 2010 - 21:02

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View PostSpectreHD, on Aug 22 2010 - 18:33, said:

While we are talking about broken game mechanics, I hope the devs sort out the get shot from front but engine in the back either gets knocked out or damaged. Seems to happen quite often for me when I use the JagdPzIV.

That happened in my churchill..got shot in the hull gunner spot and my engine exploded.

Kruppstahlterminator #125 Posted Aug 23 2010 - 10:35

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View PostCaduryn, on Aug 22 2010 - 23:09, said:

The only problem i have with Tiger 1 is that every first hit destroys my Turret, Cannon or Engine, or all, every time, thats way too much.

The Battle starts, i got a Hit from somewhere and my match is almost over.

Exactly thats my problem. When the turret is damaged even the KV can surround you and fire in your back.

Why is the tiger so sensitive? It should be stronger and heavier then the vk3601, but it is not.

I can only hope, that it will get better when my crew has more expierince and maybe with some extras...

KIAHoolk #126 Posted Aug 23 2010 - 10:46

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Everyone have heard of the tiger from historybooks about WW2.
How it first appeard on the battlefield and had to fight t-34 and shermans. Witch is much smaller and lighter.

But i guess this one of the big problem tiger I is having. People expect way to much of it. Just as many in this thread say, you realy have to use it in a different way then mediums. what risenbones writes is the way to use heavys. More tactis and use the 88 smarter, not just rush in and expect the tank to shine and kill everything :)

Havent got the tiger myself, but I have done a lot of games with my other russian heavys. But im planing on to get one, just because the history in the tank  B)

Scratch #127 Posted Aug 23 2010 - 10:55

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View Postluwinkle, on Aug 22 2010 - 21:02, said:

That happened in my churchill..got shot in the hull gunner spot and my engine exploded.

The engine hitbox includes the gearing and drive train, and they extend through much the length of the tank.

Reforger #128 Posted Aug 23 2010 - 19:03

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Just LoL - one hit in the engine and everything goes up in flames.
I dont know what to say, every 2nd or 3rd round I catch fire... really dont know what to say.
Yes it is frustrating tank and I'm not going back to that line. After the wipe I'm going for the Russian heavy line.

See to yourself - see the HP bar, after a few seconds - booom, tank dead.  :(

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Sakuzhi #129 Posted Aug 23 2010 - 20:45

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*sighs* so many "Well the Tiger is fine if it does this, or if it does this" players. Tch.

300 Games in the Tiger, and Sold the pile of junk.

The Tiger is underpowered, It's more a Tier 6 than a Tier 7 tank (Heavy wise the Kv-3 is a MUCH better match than the IS...I mean lol-cakes).

The "problem" with the Tiger is the fact it IS a Heavy Tank, it isn't a TD nor should be required to play as one. That Said, the "problem" falls within 3 Catagories.

1) Critical Hits. The Tiger receives roughly triple the number of "crits" than any other Tank.
2) Module Damage. If you do not have a Wet Ammo Rack, you will lose your Ammo rack within the first 3 hits in 9 of 10 games (I've KOed 3 Tiger's Ammo Racks within hitting them each twice, in one game). -With- the Wet ammo rack, instead of losing your Ammo rack every game, you meerly lose your Loader. To understand why this is absolutely the worst -possible- module to lose.

With the -best- Gun (Hammer of Thor known as the 88mm/71) It fires just under 10 shots a minute.
With Damaged Ammo rack: 3 Shots a Minute
With Loader KO: 6 to 7 Shots a Minute
It takes 4 shots to kill a Vk3601 (sometimes 3)

3)It's Slow, Granted it's a Heavy tank. But it should have it's Max speed uped to 38kmph, which puts it 3 kmph faster than the IS.


Player skills are absolutely meaningless if you lose the most vital Subsystem to the Tiger within the first 3 hits you receive. Which is -exactly- why the Tiger is broken.

Granted, Fully upgraded helps lot however the Ammo Rack/Critical Hits are the most crippling factor to the Tiger which is all -but- unavoidable. Not to mention unless you are fine doing nothing, you are going to be hit, and that's normally Fine. It has the HP to take damage, it's a HEAVY tank, and can perform it's role...right up until it starts receiving Module damage.


Then again, Losing the Ammo rack in -any- Heavy tank is game over, you have been Served.

Kruppstahlterminator #130 Posted Aug 23 2010 - 21:40

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View PostSakuzhi, on Aug 23 2010 - 20:45, said:

*sighs* so many "Well the Tiger is fine if it does this, or if it does this" players. Tch.

300 Games in the Tiger, and Sold the pile of junk.

The Tiger is underpowered, It's more a Tier 6 than a Tier 7 tank (Heavy wise the Kv-3 is a MUCH better match than the IS...I mean lol-cakes).

The "problem" with the Tiger is the fact it IS a Heavy Tank, it isn't a TD nor should be required to play as one. That Said, the "problem" falls within 3 Catagories.

1) Critical Hits. The Tiger receives roughly triple the number of "crits" than any other Tank.
2) Module Damage. If you do not have a Wet Ammo Rack, you will lose your Ammo rack within the first 3 hits in 9 of 10 games (I've KOed 3 Tiger's Ammo Racks within hitting them each twice, in one game). -With- the Wet ammo rack, instead of losing your Ammo rack every game, you meerly lose your Loader. To understand why this is absolutely the worst -possible- module to lose.

With the -best- Gun (Hammer of Thor known as the 88mm/71) It fires just under 10 shots a minute.
With Damaged Ammo rack: 3 Shots a Minute
With Loader KO: 6 to 7 Shots a Minute
It takes 4 shots to kill a Vk3601 (sometimes 3)

3)It's Slow, Granted it's a Heavy tank. But it should have it's Max speed uped to 38kmph, which puts it 3 kmph faster than the IS.


Player skills are absolutely meaningless if you lose the most vital Subsystem to the Tiger within the first 3 hits you receive. Which is -exactly- why the Tiger is broken.

Granted, Fully upgraded helps lot however the Ammo Rack/Critical Hits are the most crippling factor to the Tiger which is all -but- unavoidable. Not to mention unless you are fine doing nothing, you are going to be hit, and that's normally Fine. It has the HP to take damage, it's a HEAVY tank, and can perform it's role...right up until it starts receiving Module damage.


Then again, Losing the Ammo rack in -any- Heavy tank is game over, you have been Served.


So dthe deal to fix the Tiger and make a normal heavy tank out of him is just to reduce his sensibility for critical hits on the subsystems?

Sounds easy.

Is there already a thread about that in the suggestions? Did the producers say, if they wanna fix this?

killakanz #131 Posted Aug 24 2010 - 14:35

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View PostKyleRees, on Jul 31 2010 - 04:20, said:

The VK3601 is a better tank with MORE armor then the tiger?  WTF?  The VK didn't even go into production, as it was only a prototype for the Tiger, am I wrong here?  

You're not. Henschel only completed 1 prototype VK3601 before the project was shelved.
Porsche was actually closer to creating the Tiger with the VK4501;
http://www.achtungpa...es/tigerp_5.jpg
There were more test chassis made of this, it used Henschel's final Tiger turret and it was possible to mount either a 150mm KwK L/37 or 100mm L/70 gun. There were even plans for an 88mm L/100 for it.

I'm amazed this doesn't feature in WOT, when the VK3601 does...

Sakuzhi #132 Posted Aug 24 2010 - 15:04

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>.> Lie the IS-3 second turret is busted to hell where you -lose- HP, however this is being fixed.

That said, the most pressing "need' for the Tiger is the Subsystem damage, and critical Hits. Couple that with the HE nerf (yay!) And that should Reduce Fire..in Theory.


Also, I think I've caught fire 4 Times in my KT in over 100 games, randomly exploded (despite having 3 100% firefighters) on me at the start of a game. Personally I've been leaning towards Heavy tanks in generally being more immune to subsystem damages (Ammo rack) and Fire, on grounds of Repair cost to profit margins, where if you lose your Ammo rack within the first minute or two of the game you are a waste of a Tank because your gun is now reloading slower than hell (I've died countless times in a KT to something I could -easily- wax normally because some BS shot takes out the Ammo rack, so I'm shooting a mightly 2 shots a minute). Then again, would be nice if it was just not occuring within say the first 5 hits on your tank.


And, with the VK4501, I'd suggest looking at the Full German Tank tree.

killakanz #133 Posted Aug 24 2010 - 15:07

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View PostSakuzhi, on Aug 24 2010 - 15:04, said:

And, with the VK4501, I'd suggest looking at the Full German Tank tree.

You're thinking of the VK4502

Sakuzhi #134 Posted Aug 24 2010 - 15:21

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...Get used to not making alot of Bank, that doesn't change the higher up you go, on both sides German/russian.


As for the Tiger trick, it does work about 20%-33% of the time which is a vast improvement to just taking every shot in the face.

But hey, you are better off going the Russian Heavy route as the KT is the one shining light the German Heavies get.

theta0123 #135 Posted Aug 24 2010 - 19:22

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KT is indeed pretty good. VK505163 B i dunno what the name is, and the maus are also good, but they need support because they can be oh so easily flanked

KT is beast though  :Smile_honoring: It truly gives a tigerphobia

Sakuzhi #136 Posted Aug 24 2010 - 20:38

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Eh it's Vk4502 Ausf B. But truth be told I'd rather have a IS-7 on my Team over a Maus.

..And the King Tiger is a beast, can't wait till I drop some equipment on it myself.

FrederickZoller #137 Posted Aug 24 2010 - 23:08

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My two cents are also that I want that the subsystem-desaster is taken care of.

Also the speed should been adjusted. Yes it is a heavy tank, and yes this is not a historical simulation, but if the russian tanks get their speed than the flagship-tank of this game should get his too.

I like it a lot to drive with my Tiger I around. My 110% Crew makes it a beast but even the technical Handbook from 1943 says that my tiger should be a little faster on page 2.  :Smile_great:

http://www.fprado.co.../tigerfibel.pdf

Madhajo #138 Posted Aug 24 2010 - 23:33

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Hello, sorry for my bad english...

My experience with Tiger I (in Russian server, because in EU server, i sold it by error  :mellow: ) ; see screenshot for best exemple.


Tactics ; you're in Tiger, not in VK3601 ==> no rush! it's the best way to die because you're the first target of the ennemies...


Rest in defend behind a wall, stone, house, ... And snipe with accuracy and clear line of fire... Don't shoot the light, you're first target is the mediums (t-34 85 for example) and the heavies... 2 or 3 kills guaranteed...  :Smile-izmena:


Good evening all and good battle :Smile-playing:

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Vaderan #139 Posted Aug 25 2010 - 01:45

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After having read the whole thread, i come to the conclusion that we have to differ between 2 things: this game and history.

I have read a lot about WWII tanks, allied, russian, germans, and i know a lot of their stories, may it be the famous M. Wittmann or Hyazinth Graf Strachwitz, the so called "Panzergraf". I even got the honour to read an original Manual of a Tiger, with all it´s funny drawings and explanations, written for dummies. When i was done with it, i felt like if i could handle a Tiger by myself.

Today i finally got my chance in WoT. Now i´m broke, stuck with a horrible repair bill and forced to do Leichttraktor recruit battles...

But this is a story, most of the Tiger Pilots here already know.

Back to the difference between game and history.

Ingame, the Tiger starts with a 7,5cm L...-what is it? 70?- gun. In history, that gun was never mounted on the Tiger. The Tiger was designed to wear the 8,8cm gun to provide and asure the gun caliber advantage against the russian T-34.(At this point i want to mention, that the so called "Panther"-cannon was one of the most feared guns by any allied or russian tank crew. There are reports that IS tanks were, despite their sloped armor, extremly vulnerable. Ingame, the 7,5cm L70 is a bad joke...nothing of the tank killer gun it was in history)

It is true, that the Tiger I was equiped with two different turrets, the so called early version and the late version. The early version ingame is rather a bad joke and has nothing to do with the original early version, as far as i know. Regarding the fact, that many russian tanks can be upgradet with better turrets, i have to ask the question: why is the Tiger upgrade turret only an upgrade to his standard turret?

Ingame the Tiger starts with so called "Verladeketten". These tracks were used for transportation when the Tiger was load on a railway wagon, because with his regular tracks he was to broad to fit on the wagon. The Tiger was designed to perform well on the muddy russian ground after the horrible experiences during the winter 41/42 when the Pz III/IV were outmanouvered by the formidable T-34. Offering the standard tracks as an upgrade...

The ingame 8,8cm L56 gun is just another bad joke. I mean, we are talking about the most feared tankgun of WWII! That gun had a one-punch-knock-out capability against every allied/russian tank! I´m talking about tanks that saw action in WWII, tanks like IS-3, IS-4 and IS-7 are excluded, also T-43 (prototype, comparable to the VK-modells, T-44. I read, the T-44 was introduced in 1944, but i was not able to find battlereports that mentioned them.). I admit, IS tanks were a challange to the L56 on long range, but here, we are talking about close combat. On a distance of 50m, the 8,8cm would have penetrated an IS, not to speak of a T-34. Well, ingame, that gun bounces from T-34s like soapbubbles. Oh, and i digged one shell in the back of a leopard, although i hit in almost perfet angle.
But not only the penetration is lousy...the damage of 220 is far to low, especially for the L71. 280, 300 or even 300+ would be far more realistic.
It is proven that the german 8,8cm L71 was far superior to the 12cm gun mounted on the IS. The 12cm russian gun had a great penetration rate, but it had a lousy accuracy because of the fabrication quality of gun and, here it comes, the russian targeting optics. German tanks were equiped with Zeiss range-finder systems, while the russian tanks used copies of the Zeiss system with a far lower quality.

Don´t get me wrong, i fully understand that it is necessary to change historical facts to save the game balance. otherwise it would destroy the game if it would need 10 T-34 just to attempt to take out one Tiger, with a high risk to fail.
But if those adjustments for game-balance are done, they should secure a true balance. With the experiences i made while playing W.o.T., this balance stops at the tier-lvl of PZ IV / T-34.
While the superiority of the T-34 above the PZ IV is correct, i fail to agree with the higher Tiers of mediums and any Tier of the heavy tanks. Especially the T-44 is imo ridiculously overpowered.

After almost 1000 standard battles i cannot avoid the flavour of a superiority of russian tanks above their german equals, a fact that never appeared during WWII, with a big exception for the legendary T-34.

I have no problem with patriotism, and i understand, that a german will always say, the german tanks were superior, while a russian will say the contrary. But what about the players around the world, that choose their tanks just by their likes and favours? Do they deserve to be punished only because they choose a german tank instead of a russian? Because a neutral game attempts to clean up with the myth of the invincible Tiger with the comment "Yes, it was effective against (american) Shermans." (and unspoken: but here, it has to handle russian tanks...)
Don´t get me wrong, i mean no offence, i really enjoyed this game until today, although i had the feeling being handicaped since i got my PzIV, and i know that this game is no simulation, but in my opinion, it should just be part of the game, that every player who achieved to buy his Tiger/IS should feel like "Yeah, finally i got in this mighty tank, now i am a thread to everybody smaller and a fair match to any equal or larger tank."

Well, if i buy an IS, i don´t have to fear most 7,5 cm L70 shots, most of them bounce because of my sloped armor, the angle and the fact, that german guns are (imo) underpowered. I have a decend gun and nice upgrade options.
But if i buy a Tiger, it feels more like: "Okay, that step is done. Now i have to do some battles and hope that i can gain enough exp to get this piece of metal into usefull standard...well...and hopefully i earn enough money because i need to spend a bunch of money for the things that should just come right out from factory. And, please, dear god, don´t let me face a Pz III, T-34 or better, because if so, i can only survive if my escort is fast enough. Or i get a really lucky shot. No wait... one or two penetrating hits with my 7,5 cm gun won´t stop a T-34..."

Yes, it might sound hilarious. But isn´t that what we all feel, when we start over with our Tiger? Í mean, before i bought the Tiger, i used to horse around with my VK 3001 (H). I did my average 1-2 kills, sometimes 4-6, earned money and was pretty selfconfident, even in engaging Kingtigers. IS and IS-3 were another topic, because my lousy 8,8cm L56 uses to bounce on those...or T-44.
But in our brandnew Tigers, we feel like walking on raw eggs, even if we transplant the gun/radio/engine and even the retrained elite crew from our old tank...

Yes, these were many words. They lay on my soul for many days, but my latest Tiger experiences now just forced them out. I just hope, these words don´t pass without reaching the adressed persons, the devs.

Pirate_85 #140 Posted Aug 25 2010 - 03:12

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hm, i doesnt have Tiger yet, and i dont want to have but... wouldnt German Armor better/stronger with same thick than russian one? German Kruppsteel are much more better and more stable/elastic than any other Steel Allies had... why tiger is so woundable then? o.O




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