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Doing damage as a TD


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Konigreich #1 Posted May 16 2011 - 07:27

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I've been playing this game for a couple of weeks and at first I thought it was really enjoyable.  Then I got into using the Hetzer which I read was a terrible grind, so I put up with it.

Now, I'm in the Stug and everything seems to be the same.  For example, in the Hetzer my shots kept bouncing/not doing damage whether I was using AP or HE.  Now in the Stug, I can't damage anything.  I've read how TDs are useful for long range support (which is what drew me to them) on medium/light vehicles.  The only damn problem is... no one plays light or medium tanks.

Just recently, I'm probably 50 feet from a KV in my Stug and knowing I won't damage him with AP, I use HE and literally take off only 1%.  His return shot kills me, even when I try to move after getting my shot off.  

Is this what's in store as the tiers progress?  Having to succumb to playing heavy tanks because they can't be damaged and they 1 shot all lights, mediums, TDs, and arties?  It's ridiculous that a heavy can be shot by multiple vehicles while also one-shotting most other vehicles at the same time.

Dersico #2 Posted May 16 2011 - 07:32

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Stock German tanks are bad compared to essentially everything.

Get the long 7.5cm or the 10.5cm derpgun to deal damage.



If those two don't work, then ask yourself what you're aiming at...

Konigreich #3 Posted May 16 2011 - 07:35

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I have the 7.5 long and I'm at about 80% crew with all but the 30k tank researched.  With the exception of heavies, it's not that other things don't take damage.  It's that against a heavy I do 10-15% damage, while they do 100% in one shot.  Hence my original question, is this the trend in higher tiers?  If so, I'll just join the heavy tank club since they seem to have no disadvantages.

Meinehre #4 Posted May 16 2011 - 07:37

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Upgrade the tracks, engine, get the 75mm StuK, zip around and rape from long range.

Rexxie #5 Posted May 16 2011 - 07:43

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No idea what your problem is. Almost every TD should have 0 troubles penetrating tanks up to 2+ tiers above them, StuG included. The only tank that this doesnt work for is the JgPnz4.

Konigreich #6 Posted May 16 2011 - 07:44

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Right now I have on my Stug:

The VI 7.5 cm StuK L/70
The IV Maybach HL 120 TRM
IV Suspension
VI Radio

All of these are the highest available upgrades and I've used both AP and HE on heavies, but when it takes 10 rounds or so to kill 1 tank that can 1-shot you, I just don't understand how that's even feasible.

Konigreich #7 Posted May 16 2011 - 07:49

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View PostRex_Nex, on May 16 2011 - 07:43, said:

No idea what your problem is. Almost every TD should have 0 troubles penetrating tanks up to 2+ tiers above them, StuG included. The only tank that this doesnt work for is the JgPnz4.

The penetration problem occurs less frequently with the Stug, but the problem is doing 1% damage with HE at such a close range.  Or even doing 10% damage at long range with AP.

Lert #8 Posted May 16 2011 - 07:51

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http://www.slapyo.co...ent/wrong18.jpg

You're an ambush tank, so: ambush. Don't be in a position where you get shot at. Stay behind your team's heavies and take shots of opportunity. Learn to aim: fire at weak points. Your goal is not to make their tanks think "Hey, a TD, I'ma kill it" but "WTFRAEG! Where are those shots coming from!" You're a small, nimble, agile TD with good camo rating and a very, Very, VERY accurate gun. Play to your strengths.

<Edit>

Both StuG and Hetzer are excellent machines, if you play them right.

Rexxie #9 Posted May 16 2011 - 07:51

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View PostKonigreich, on May 16 2011 - 07:49, said:

The penetration problem occurs less frequently with the Stug, but the problem is doing 1% damage with HE at such a close range.  Or even doing 10% damage at long range with AP.

First, nearly all cannons made for AP rounds absolutely fail at spitting out damage with HE rounds. I tend to not even try; if AP wont penetrate, your probably better off scooting away and finding another target.

10% AP damage against heavies is pretty decent; your cannon is a machine gun, after all.

Deusmortis #10 Posted May 16 2011 - 07:53

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It takes a certain knack for playing TD's to get it done right.  If you're in a position where that KV can easily return fire, you've probably done something wrong.  Try to set up in concealment, giving yourself a clear view of high traffic areas.  As with any other tank, aim for weak spots like the sides and rears of tanks.  Always zoom in with manual aim.  Never try to shoot through the front of a turret, unless it is a much weaker tank that you are certain to penetrate.

Konigreich #11 Posted May 16 2011 - 08:05

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View PostDeusmortis, on May 16 2011 - 07:53, said:

It takes a certain knack for playing TD's to get it done right.  If you're in a position where that KV can easily return fire, you've probably done something wrong.  Try to set up in concealment, giving yourself a clear view of high traffic areas.  As with any other tank, aim for weak spots like the sides and rears of tanks.  Always zoom in with manual aim.  Never try to shoot through the front of a turret, unless it is a much weaker tank that you are certain to penetrate.

I usually do most of this.  I try to plant myself in a place that's easy to retreat to cover when taking fire, but also a place that I know the enemy players are going to travel through.  I also zoom in manually (if you mean by pressing shift and then zooming in with my mousewheel).  The incident I mentioned with being so close to the KV was slip up on my part, I admit that.  Maybe it's just the soviet tanks that're so frustrating, because the T1s aren't really an issue that I can recall specifically.

H_87A_2CU #12 Posted May 16 2011 - 08:05

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The Stug can be an absolute beast when played correctly, but honestly unless you are packing the 10.5 or the 7.5 L70 you will find it painful at times. The 10.5 is brilliant if you want to be an assault Stug, the L70 is a great sniper weapon.

In beta my best was 10 destroyed in a match, and at the moment its 8 destroyed in live, but I do play it as a HE throwing dealer of death, so I get up close and personal with other tanks. Now the kills don't mean much but you can hand out enough hurt in most games, even to T6 plus vehicles. Playing it to its strength it can be very effective this way, however if you think you can use the L70 and deal death up close you'll have issues (I notice that you say up close HE does little....big issue......try not to be up close...use any and all tricks, dirty tactics, and anything else you can think of not to be up close as a TD).

The Stug does get put into a number of higher tier matches, which honestly the 10.5 doesn't do much in, and trust me I curse long when I get that sort of match (I curse the lack of putting on the L70, until the next game where I'm middle top...makes up for it), but even so you can still deal some pain out when you switch to HE (managed to knock a T32 down to 11% from 100% in one game before he spotted me and gave me a hiding). I would suggest that with the L70, hang back some so you are in range of your heavies or mediums and what they spot but also hidden and take those long range shots for the damage.

H

Konigreich #13 Posted May 16 2011 - 08:13

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Thanks for all the advice.  A lot of this I have done, but perhaps frustration was causing me to play differently.  I like TDs because of the "sniper" aspect, so I was just a little disheartened when it didn't seem like that was the route to go anymore.

Greneral_Maow #14 Posted May 16 2011 - 08:43

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View PostDersico, on May 16 2011 - 07:32, said:

ask yourself what you're aiming at...


WallCandy #15 Posted May 16 2011 - 09:04

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As a Stug driver, though mostly in beta. I can tell you this. Never ever engage a KV unless you have it's sides, it's turret isn't pointing at you, and you are preferably at long range. With the rammer and the long 75 with 100% crew you get a shot out roughly every three seconds. That more than makes up for your low damage on that thing. If the KV starts to turn it's turret at you, get the heck out.

Stick in bushes, get a camo net if you have not already, and make sure none of your tank with the exception of the gun barrel pokes out the front of the bush, as this will eliminate your camo.

As for the way TDs go? The Stug is one of the best german TDs, the Jagd IV is a pain to grind. The Jagdpanther plays a lot like the stug except it can do damage once you get maxxed engine and the 10.5/long 88.

The Ferdi? With the 12.8 it deals a crapton of damage, and has enough frontal armor to act as an assault gun in a pinch. Seriously it's trouble taking one on frontally with a King Tiger, used to hate when I saw a ferd on the enemy list.

Jagdtiger? From everything I've heard, it's a Ferdi with a bigger gun.

Hope this helps.

GearaDoga #16 Posted May 16 2011 - 10:03

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...What?  

Is the STuG's 75mm L/70 significantly worse than the Panzer IV's L/70?  Because I can reliably 3 or 4 shot a KV at any range with my PzIV.  Unless he's about to open fire on me at close range, I just laugh when I see a KV - I had assumed that the STuG's L/70 performs equally well...  Am I wrong there?

Lert #17 Posted May 16 2011 - 10:20

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They're virtually the same guns, with the same pen and same dam. Pz IV has more hitpoints though, and a turret - that might give you the feeling that the gun is more effective, which it isn't.

Tack #18 Posted May 16 2011 - 10:20

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View PostKonigreich, on May 16 2011 - 07:27, said:

I'm probably 50 feet from a KV in my Stug and knowing I won't damage him with AP, I use HE and literally take off only 1%.  His return shot kills me, even when I try to move after getting my shot off.  

Is this what's in store as the tiers progress?  Having to succumb to playing heavy tanks because they can't be damaged and they 1 shot all lights, mediums, TDs, and arties?  It's ridiculous that a heavy can be shot by multiple vehicles while also one-shotting most other vehicles at the same time.
The STUG is a brutal little TD. It can certainly punch above it's weight. With regards to only being able to hurt mediums and lights, this is certainly not true.

All tanks have weak points (the KV for instance is the turret), you just have to learn where they are. With the accuracy of the L70, the STUG is very capable of exploiting these weaknesses.

Oh yeah and do not EVER use auto aim, not saying you are, but don't.

HTH

Tack

SuperiorBeen #19 Posted May 16 2011 - 10:41

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In all trees are crappy tanks especially with the stock weapon, just skip them. Ferdinand is a beast and JagdTiger will be also with the future buffs.

psyllium #20 Posted May 16 2011 - 12:58

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Once you get to the JP and the Ferdi, german  TD's start to shine. JT may even be worth something after 6.4




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