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Tiger I & Tiger P guide help


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AngelOfWarAndDeath #1 Posted Aug 25 2014 - 03:56

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I have been having trouble with grasping the tigers against opponents of higher tiers and some tiers like 6,or 7 vehicles I go up against.now,I have tried angling my armor and learn how to overcome and adapt quickly in my tigers and try to survive then die so it wont affect my death/kill ratio,etc...however I have been getting very bad matchmaking everytime I get into my tier 7 Tigers and Panther tank,and sometimes I don't even want to...lol.I go instead to play in my tier 5 and 6 vehicles and go for a lower better mm .but I keep getting the flunk matches and very bad competition....I don't know what to improve and where to begin.Plus I keep getting maps that are very bad for my tier 7's....I have decided to stay tier 7 and 6 and 5  and 4 and play those since I have noticed the battles are very decent,but I have to admit I am struggling to make it in-game.very difficult.

Does anyone have any advice?



madogthefirst #2 Posted Aug 25 2014 - 04:03

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For the Tiger P be second line support and snipe from there, you hull armor is a great asset. Try reverse sidescraping with it. You'll have to stay close to the front, not too close, or else you risk being left behind. The Tiger I should be used for sniping and sidescraping, though I found it to be very wide and the turret sits right in the center. The Tiger I is all about DPM unlike the Tiger P. I personally liked the Tiger P more and that VK45B is awesome.

HAHAHA01 #3 Posted Aug 25 2014 - 04:14

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I dunno about tigerP, but I have a few tricks with the tiger. And here it goes:

  Disclaimer: I admit I'm not the best Tiger I player but these techniques helped me.

First, sidescraping is a viable tactic, but only against tier 5-7s. Most tier 8 and 9s will just laugh at your armor. So it's safer to not get hit in the first place. And be especially aware of tanks with huge caliber HE cannons like the KV-2 because they can turn your modules and crew into tofu. But in cases where taking a hit could tip the tide of battle, don't be afraid to do it because you have a lot of HP. Next is the gun, which fires like a flak cannon. Try to abuse your quick ROF and keep higher tier enemies immobilized while being able to shred low tiers. But this doesn't mean sit in the open point click and snipe. You can be aggressive, but first know your enemy. Map awareness is a huge thing in this tank. I can't really explain it well but trust me, it will save you. 

 

There's a lot more but I'm gonna let you try these tactics out and see how they work. Good luck!



RingYourBell #4 Posted Aug 25 2014 - 04:15

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TIGER / TIGER P ,, Weak Armor, Lotsa Weak Spots,, If Your TOP Tier Not too Much Problem But really in Tier 8 or Tier 9 your Just a Sniper,, 2nd Line back up DONT Brawl ,, A Tier 8/9 HEAVY / TD and Lotsa MEDs can pop you in 2 Shots Easy So, 2nd Line SNIPER from Cover  and CAMO is your Friend

photo shot_044_zps5648e62a.jpg

photo shot_046_zpsccd8f42e.jpg

 

 

photo shot_043_zps84fe6182.jpg

photo shot_045_zps9b01c4ae.jpg

Notice BINOCs,, 460+ Spotting FTW !! Its always Hilarious to pop a KV-2 or an IS or KV-1s from 450m and Ammo Rack them !!


Edited by RingYourBell, Aug 25 2014 - 04:27.


HereticVoid #5 Posted Aug 25 2014 - 05:45

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I love being low tier is my tiger 1 as it means more hp for me to melt. Ps ring the bell beat me to the info lol. The only thing I could change is the meds, unless it's a auto loader it will take them more then 2. Shots with even high damage rolls to kill you.

zyl #6 Posted Aug 29 2014 - 06:59

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I really don't understand here... Everyone says to sidescrape with the tiger, but it is TERRIBLE at sidescraping. It's so wide, and that front armor is so flat, I can't even get a shot without taking a pen in return even on the side armor, which is so easily over matched. The entire tank is so flat that there just doesn't seem to be an advantageous angle to put it at. And why a heavy sniper? That is just the stupidest thing I've ever heard of IMO. Heavies brawl end of story. A heavy sniper just takes up a slot and may as well be a TD.. except a heavy has horrid camo. 

WillTreaty2 #7 Posted Aug 29 2014 - 07:49

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View Postzyl, on Aug 28 2014 - 22:59, said:

I really don't understand here... Everyone says to sidescrape with the tiger, but it is TERRIBLE at sidescraping. It's so wide, and that front armor is so flat, I can't even get a shot without taking a pen in return even on the side armor, which is so easily over matched. The entire tank is so flat that there just doesn't seem to be an advantageous angle to put it at. And why a heavy sniper? That is just the stupidest thing I've ever heard of IMO. Heavies brawl end of story. A heavy sniper just takes up a slot and may as well be a TD.. except a heavy has horrid camo. 

Side armor is 80. Nice seeing those 240 caliber cannons at those tiers. Because the side armor is flat is why it is a great side scraper. And side scraping while showing the front? That's not how you do it. 



steel_hammerfest #8 Posted Aug 29 2014 - 08:13

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Noob here and first post.  what is sidescraping?  I'm having a horrible time with the P.  And it's bumming me out cuz I rock in my vk 30.  I spent weeks waiting and how anticlimactic.

 



WillTreaty2 #9 Posted Aug 29 2014 - 08:23

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View Poststeel_hammerfest, on Aug 29 2014 - 00:13, said:

Noob here and first post.  what is sidescraping?  I'm having a horrible time with the P.  And it's bumming me out cuz I rock in my vk 30.  I spent weeks waiting and how anticlimactic.

 

 

It is when you angle your side off an object. Check out the wiki, I would say more but on iPhone. Don't side scrape in the Tiger P though, because it has "shoulders." Use that 200mm armor to its max. 

TheDude101 #10 Posted Aug 29 2014 - 09:01

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It's been too long since I've been through the Tiger I, and I understand it's had a ROF buff,  maybe more since. So,  I will let others weigh in here. 

 

The Tiger P is sitting in my garage now, upgraded and sitting at 110k or so XP (grinding for the Ferdi first).

 

The Tiger P is an absolute monster. As top tier,  it can push better than most tanks in the same tier. The hull armor is reliable, and is able to bounce a decent amount of T8 rounds, even some T9. Watch out for your shoulders,  as they can be your downfall. The incredibly large commanders cupola is also a nice squishy spot. Wiggle your turret or try to hide it best you can. 

 

The gun is accurate, even while moving. Roughly 7sec reload,  dishing out 240dmg is pretty respectable. 

 

As a lower tier tank,  fall back to second line support. Keep your distance, it will help negate your weak spots, and you'll still be able to hit theirs. 

 

As a note,  this is how I play it,  YMMV.



zyl #11 Posted Aug 30 2014 - 03:04

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View PostWillTreaty2, on Aug 29 2014 - 08:49, said:

Side armor is 80. Nice seeing those 240 caliber cannons at those tiers. Because the side armor is flat is why it is a great side scraper. And side scraping while showing the front? That's not how you do it.

 

If you think there aren't 240+ pen guns facing a tiger, I have some ocean front property to sell you in Iowa.

 

Aside from that point (which is admittedly not always the case), overmatching occurs at double the pen value as well. I suppose I could better articulate that.

 

And aside from those two things, either I'm a total moron, or you actually can't sidescrape without either showing some front or too much side barring some rather permissive terrain. The angles you need to bounce shells simply don't match up with the shape of the tank. Yes you can sort of sidescrape(>30 degree incident angle), but with the horrid module damage... ugh. This statement assumes you don't count the turret as a part of the front of the tank (I do). I can sidescrape with other tanks, but the tiger is just no good for it. I'm sad to report that I could more effectively use the AMX M4 45's armor.



TheDude101 #12 Posted Aug 30 2014 - 03:56

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View Postzyl, on Aug 29 2014 - 21:04, said:

 

If you think there aren't 240+ pen guns facing a tiger, I have some ocean front property to sell you in Iowa.

 

Aside from that point (which is admittedly not always the case), overmatching occurs at double the pen value as well. I suppose I could better articulate that.

Overmatch isn't by penetration, it's by caliber size. So 80mm x 3 = 240mm caliber weapon. So, it requires a 240mm caliber weapon to overmatch the sides. 

Source: http://wiki.wargamin...enetration_(WoT)#Overmatch

Block Quote

 If the AP or APCR shell caliber is 3 times or more than the nominal thickness of the armour (such as a 120mm shell hitting a 40mm thick plate), no ricochet will happen even if the impact angle is more than 70° from normal. The increased shell normalization described above will also occur.

 

For your second point, from the same source:

Block Quote

If the AP or APCR shell's caliber is 2 times or more than the nominal thickness of the armour (Such as a 120mm shell hitting a 60mm thick plate), projectile shell normalization is increased by the following formula: basic normalization * 1.4 * shell caliber / nominal armour thickness. Note that the shell is still capable of bouncing if it strikes the armor at an angle of 70° or more from normal.

 

So, if it's 2x, it gets a bit better chance to pen due to increased normalization rates, but no overmatching occurs as it can still ricochet @ 70 degrees or more.

 

Before selling your Iowa ocean front property, you may want to get some better info.



zyl #13 Posted Aug 30 2014 - 04:02

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good point

 

I actually thought of that as I was driving home from work, but editing it serves no purpose now. I stand corrected, but don't retract the meat of the argument



HereticVoid #14 Posted Aug 30 2014 - 06:08

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View Postzyl, on Aug 29 2014 - 07:59, said:

I really don't understand here... Everyone says to sidescrape with the tiger, but it is TERRIBLE at sidescraping. It's so wide, and that front armor is so flat, I can't even get a shot without taking a pen in return even on the side armor, which is so easily over matched. The entire tank is so flat that there just doesn't seem to be an advantageous angle to put it at. And why a heavy sniper? That is just the stupidest thing I've ever heard of IMO. Heavies brawl end of story. A heavy sniper just takes up a slot and may as well be a TD.. except a heavy has horrid camo. 

 

1) side scraping dose work on this tank as dose Angleing. But it is very hard and not a good tank to learn it in.

2) want to carry game, alone against a td well tough lucky your a heavy and won't spot in time or have an accurate enough gun. But if your in a heavy sniper you have both the hp as well as gun advantage along with view range to spot.

3) heavy snipers are kinda like generalists, they felt your face off in steady realible streams.

4) heavies can actually have more cammo then td's sometimes.

5) Also heavy is a weight/ role designation so there are flanking heavies, sniper heavies and so on. After all you can't put all clas of heavies in one role as say that's what it's for, same with td's and mediums.



TheKungfucius #15 Posted Sep 16 2014 - 14:24

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Tiger is notoriously infamous for its lack of armor, yet it is equipped with the best gun among tier 7 heavies. IS-2(In my opinion, the best tier 7 heavy)'s aiming is acceptable, but it does miss due to its gun's accuracy. Tiger's gun is more reliable in long ranged combat. With this 203 penetration for regular rounds, premium rounds isn't that necessary unless you are in tier 9 matches. The cost of regular shells is also significantly lower than other tier 7 tanks with higher caliber. Don't underestimate a tiger's speed, it can go 38km/h (close to 40) on flat ground after the 8.8 patch nerf (buff). Its dpm is even somewhere close to tier 7 tds, compensating for its alpha. There are people complaining about Tiger, but it is almost because they drive their tiger to the front and started tanking. Once you preserve your tiger in the first stage combat (by sniping), you can literally come out and annihilate anyone who is advancing alone. People can't really kill a 1500hp tiger alone if they are already spotted. Don't count on to side-scraping, it won't help a lot. 

"Meow! Camp and inflict damage, play like other heavies and suicide." Tiger smiled after he sniped down another rushing tiger on the enemy team.  

 

TigerP is a armor enhanced version of Tiger, but slower and have a longer reload time. However, only a small portion of Tiger P's front is 200mm thick, and the rightmost and leftmost area of that plate has become a weak spot. Even an E25 pens TigerP's front every shot. Bounces on turret is all luck. There are space armor covering some part of the turret (just like the Tiger), but other parts can be penetrated (150mm penetration is enough). To skilled players, your TigerP is just as "paperlish" as the Tiger in close combat. But when you are fighting over long distance, Tiger is significantly better than TigerP. But overall tigerP is a good tank like the IS. It's just it can't receive much spotlight under the shade of tiger. 

"Meow! Brother TigerP needs to lose some weight." says a Tiger passing by a perspiring fellow TigerP in a tank race.

 

So buy your Tiger back. TigerP is not worth keeping, compared to Tiger



TheKungfucius #16 Posted Sep 16 2014 - 14:32

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View PostWillTreaty2, on Aug 29 2014 - 08:49, said:

Side armor is 80. Nice seeing those 240 caliber cannons at those tiers. Because the side armor is flat is why it is a great side scraper. And side scraping while showing the front? That's not how you do it. 

 

Why Tiger is not good for sidescraping because everybody else pens it in the turret. 

And, it doesnt mean that 240 caliber gun can pen 80mm at all angles. It just mean that 240mm shells wont bounce on 80mm armor.    "not bouncing" is not equal to "penetrating".

And, Tiger has 82mm side armor. 



TheKungfucius #17 Posted Sep 16 2014 - 14:35

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View Postzyl, on Aug 29 2014 - 07:59, said:

I really don't understand here... Everyone says to sidescrape with the tiger, but it is TERRIBLE at sidescraping. It's so wide, and that front armor is so flat, I can't even get a shot without taking a pen in return even on the side armor, which is so easily over matched. The entire tank is so flat that there just doesn't seem to be an advantageous angle to put it at. And why a heavy sniper? That is just the stupidest thing I've ever heard of IMO. Heavies brawl end of story. A heavy sniper just takes up a slot and may as well be a TD.. except a heavy has horrid camo. 

 

Per your logic, one of the best T9 heavies Conqueror could be played as crap in your hands. The same reason why you would ruin a Tiger.

WillTreaty2 #18 Posted Sep 16 2014 - 16:09

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View PostTheKungfucius, on Sep 16 2014 - 06:32, said:

 

Why Tiger is not good for sidescraping because everybody else pens it in the turret. 

And, it doesnt mean that 240 caliber gun can pen 80mm at all angles. It just mean that 240mm shells wont bounce on 80mm armor.    "not bouncing" is not equal to "penetrating".

And, Tiger has 82mm side armor. 

 

It can pen 80mm at any angle. Overmatch is when the caliber is 3x the armor value.  You can also argue that the Tiger II is not good at sidescraping, because of the turret as well. 

If you dont believe the 3x overmatch, go read the wiki.



TlGERACE #19 Posted Sep 16 2014 - 16:23

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I am a Tiger 1 tanker , I love everything about my tank even how it looks so if you ask me i would choose the Tiger 1 over the Tiger p any day 

TheKungfucius #20 Posted Sep 16 2014 - 16:42

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View PostWillTreaty2, on Sep 16 2014 - 17:09, said:

 

It can pen 80mm at any angle. Overmatch is when the caliber is 3x the armor value.  You can also argue that the Tiger II is not good at sidescraping, because of the turret as well. 

If you dont believe the 3x overmatch, go read the wiki.

 

I dont understand what overmatch is. 

"Do not bounce" is not equal to "Penetration" alright?

You can hit on a target without bouncing but its a non-penetrating shot with no damage. 

Try Jgpze100's gun on Foch 155's side armor with an extreme angle. It will not bounce, nor will it penetrate.






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