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Want to win more? XVM - Because it is a team game.

SaskO want to win more xvm

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the_bolshevik #41 Posted Oct 01 2014 - 21:27

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I haven't used XVM stats for the past two years and it hasn't stopped me from reaching "Blue" status... I've gone short periods where I would activate it to "give it another chance" but I always quickly end up turning it off. All those colors are a distraction and it doesn't help me, at all. It influences my play in a bad way because I've always structured my strategy around team composition. Therefore I'm used to assuming that all tankers are somewhat competent.

 

When I play with XVM it makes me realize that I am very often the top player in a game. When this happens I am extremely likely to go full [edited], and yolo into red tanks thinking I can buttseks them all at the same time. Obviously this does not work, and so I lose a lot more with XVM than I do otherwise. Staying calm and acting out my strategy based on the relative strengths and weaknesses of TANKS, not PLAYERS is what works for me.

 

I still install the mod though. Last known positions, draw range and vision range indicators are invaluable to playing good vision games.



King_Baboon #42 Posted Oct 02 2014 - 17:35

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The key to having control over your matches is to never solo pub.

Sask_Outrider #43 Posted Oct 03 2014 - 15:12

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View PostArachnicus, on Oct 02 2014 - 10:35, said:

The key to having control over your matches is to never solo pub.

 

The key to winning more is to understand you roll in it.  Solo pubbing works fine.  I have added over 2% points to my win rate by mainly solo pubbing.

 

If you continue to believe you have no control over your win rate you never will.



Driftin #44 Posted Oct 03 2014 - 15:20

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View PostDraconX3, on Sep 23 2014 - 12:08, said:

Again, since this is just a repost of the same article that was put up not long ago. Ill say what I said there.

 

All this talk about what to do to "win" is all well and good if the match allows it.

 

But then your team lemmings all down one way, dies in 2 minutes flat and leaves you "protecting" the open flank.

 

This happens over and over again.....Im sure SOME people out there can take on 15 tanks by themselves but yaknow..whatever =X

 

But yeah, totally can control your WR 100% of the time. Totally.  But hey, Im just a casual player with less than 50 billion matches. So what do I know.

 

Actually the math people have all come to agreement that you control your win chance in 60% of your games. 20% you will win no matter what you do. 20% you will lose no matter what you do. The rest absolutely are within your power to make or break. You just have to tip the scales in your favor.

Those numbers are approximations and actual values my vary by a percent or 2, but they are accurate. The math was based off of millions of players and millions of games.



Destin65 #45 Posted Oct 05 2014 - 05:14

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View PostSask_Outrider, on Sep 23 2014 - 16:39, said:

Please note:  If you do not believe you have control over your win rate ...

 

For people that don't know XVM ...

 

First, a good post that I am glad to see in which someone is offering to help others get better at the game which in turn can help us all get better and enjoy more thrilling matches and competition.

Agreed, we all have control over our win rate. However, you neglected to mention some of the most vital options. That of helping others. Just some advice/leadership during a match can be a big help and I have seen where it has determined the outcome of a battle. If I had a nickel for every time a so-called expert on the game using XVM berated the team as a "fail team", or chalked up a loss during the countdown, or generally bellyached and whined about the "stupid" people in the match then Bill Gates would be a vague, unknown low-level employee at my company working for minimum wage, haha. Instead of these players complaining so much... perhaps they should step up, be a man (or woman) and offer to help dictate the battle, to help others learn the map or at least know what to do or where to go on it. I'm far from an expert at anything in this game but I have doubled my rating in the last few months and am looking to continue getting better. You said yourself that XVM lets you see the makeup of the team based on color-coded indicators and stats. I've used it myself before. The problem is, people misuse it as a tool in all the wrong ways. They play for stats rather than team. They criticize when they should be saying "Hey guy, I see you are down on your stats, try this...." and something like that is all it takes to help a potential rookie not only survive but eventually thrive. We all had to start from somewhere. Patton, Rommel, Montgomery, etc... every one of those greenhorns were the most stupid of the noobs ever in the history of mankind. Know what made them legend? Having mentors who instructed them and directed them. I realize that is impossible in the 30 second countdown, so many people think "why bother?" Well, because you don't have to teach a lifetime of knowledge in 30 seconds. Just throw out generalized comments and suggestions as to what should be the goals of the team based on the tanks they have and the map they are given. That can go a long, long way towards affecting the outcome of the battle for the better. As the WoT wiki itself says, even a bad plan is far better than no plan and that you can actually win with a bad plan against a team with no plan.

XVM, where to start? It's a scoreboard, nothing more. I'll address that in the other person I'm quoting below...

 

 

 

View Postjonny_ringo, on Sep 23 2014 - 16:52, said:

XVM can be a legitimate tool for the advanced player ...


I would have to disagree with the advanced player part. XVM is nothing more than a very simplified and absolutely dumbed-down form of the WoT stats. Even a 2 year old can figure out what the XVM stats mean. Then combine the other tools in the package that border on outright cheats... and XVM makes it where you can literally bot your way around the map. With XVM there is no fog of war. And what is the point of playing a game in which there is neither mystery nor challenge with regard to the outcome? I have stopped using XVM because it was turning me into that two-year-old mentality. Padding stats is more important to most of the people who use it otherwise they would never open their mouth about either their own stats or someone else's.

If XVM actually made players better then this post would never have been made nor would anyone even have any discussion about it. They also wouldn't have their "Look at me! Look at me!" giant billboard-sized forum signatures looking like they are going around with their fly open in the hopes people notice the 'size' of it. In my 17 years of competitive online gaming across most all genres there is always that golden rule that is as true today as when the very first computer game was created... scoreboards ruin games and if the game has a scoreboard the players will figure out a way to hack, cheat, bend, break and otherwise exploit every pixel and string of code to their advantage. That's not elite play, that's not an advance player, that's absolutely a lazy player who feels they can't be bothered to learn the game so they take the shortcuts to better stats or rewards, whichever they are looking for. And forget about playing the game the way it was intended, if people could surf waves with their KV-1 to their advantage they would do it in the game no matter how badly it goes against the spirit and intent of the game. Many gamers here could care less.
 

 

 

View PostJundaku, on Sep 23 2014 - 17:05, said:

"Expect them to not know anything and to be utterly stupid."


Agreed and that is all of our faults. We're all stupid when you think about it for doing exactly as you stated.

Edited by Destin65, Oct 05 2014 - 05:16.


SireMaxus #46 Posted Dec 12 2014 - 20:17

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Hello everyone,

 

As very new player to this game (about 2XX battles so far) I think of XVM as a tool I can use to understand more about the game itself, the relative distance and % of advance I can get throughout my own training in this game.

 

I have not been using it to discredit a player or group of players, but as another tool at my disposal... If I will continue to use or not only time can tell. But as seen on various replays on youtube those figures can certainly mislead.

 

Thanks for this guide and certainly entertaining discussion on this topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by SireMaxus, Dec 12 2014 - 20:17.


GAJohnnie77 #47 Posted Dec 12 2014 - 21:05

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Call me a purist but I doubt in a real war you can "know" the skill of the enemy you face.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ban mods and limit amount of Gold ammo available. Play the game straight up, skill against skill



Audie_L_Murphy #48 Posted Dec 12 2014 - 21:42

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I do not use XVM winning chances.  I just eyeball the teams & I have a pretty good idea.  When I get a team of lesser quality players, I understand that I will have to step it up & get KILLS (as well as lead the team in damage).  Also, I realize that I must push the issue in the local area because the flanks are going to fall.  When faced with this situation, you must push it.  Sometimes this leads to mistakes but, that is the chance you take.  If my team has better players, I understand that my main role is to damage enemy tanks & focus on damaging and/or killing the better players on the other side.

As for taking out the support tanks & leaving the enemies best players to the end.  This often occurs because the better players tend to understand situations & don't get melted for no reason.  I would rather damage the best player on the other team then melt a red stat guy.  The red stat guy is going to do something stupid anyway & get melted.  The good player may only make 1 or 2 mistakes...I plan to punish those mistakes when I see them.  Also, if I see a unicum on the other team & my team has some good players I will always take the opportunity to take out the unicum even if I die doing this.  Well worth the trade.

The best way to increase win rate is to platoon with decent (or better) players.  I have a 66% win rate when platooning.  As you can tell from my stats, I'm not that good.



Audie_L_Murphy #49 Posted Dec 12 2014 - 21:52

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View PostGAJohnnie77, on Dec 12 2014 - 12:05, said:

Call me a purist but I doubt in a real war you can "know" the skill of the enemy you face.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ban mods and limit amount of Gold ammo available. Play the game straight up, skill against skill

 

I will disagree with you on this one...to a point.  Often some of the early intel provided will tell you what enemy units you are facing.  If you are facing paratroopers...you can expect more difficult troops.  On the other end of it, if you are facing a bunch of reserve troops, you can expect less effective resistance.

 

As for use of XVM...if it is available & not banned, I'm going to use it.  This goes for any other mods available, premium rounds, consumables, experienced crews & equipment.  If you are not able (or decide) not to use all resources available, that is your issue...I will take the advantage.

This advantage inculdes experience.  My knowledge of the Hellcat & understanding it rarely catches fire allows me to replace the fire ext with premium fuel or cola.  My understanding of the economics of the game allows me to purchase these items at 50% discount.  My ability to earn more experience (and credits) using the Hellcat over the average player, pays for the consumables.  Fair?


Edited by Audie_L_Murphy, Dec 12 2014 - 21:53.


Jedi5150 #50 Posted Dec 12 2014 - 23:10

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View Postthe_bolshevik, on Oct 01 2014 - 21:27, said:

I haven't used XVM stats for the past two years and it hasn't stopped me from reaching "Blue" status... I've gone short periods where I would activate it to "give it another chance" but I always quickly end up turning it off. All those colors are a distraction and it doesn't help me, at all. It influences my play in a bad way because I've always structured my strategy around team composition. Therefore I'm used to assuming that all tankers are somewhat competent.

 

When I play with XVM it makes me realize that I am very often the top player in a game. When this happens I am extremely likely to go full [edited], and yolo into red tanks thinking I can buttseks them all at the same time. Obviously this does not work, and so I lose a lot more with XVM than I do otherwise. Staying calm and acting out my strategy based on the relative strengths and weaknesses of TANKS, not PLAYERS is what works for me.

 

I still install the mod though. Last known positions, draw range and vision range indicators are invaluable to playing good vision games.

 

Interesting...I had no idea you could use the draw range circles and last known point tools without all the funky name colors.  I tried XVM briefly and got very turned off by it, except for those tools.  The colors and writing were way too bright and "bubbly" for my taste, and it was distracting.

Zythalin #51 Posted Dec 12 2014 - 23:46

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View PostGAJohnnie77, on Dec 12 2014 - 21:05, said:

Call me a purist but I doubt in a real war you can "know" the skill of the enemy you face.

 

You usually know who is in command of the opposing forces. Often combined with extra intel about troop composition, elite forces, ... That tells you alot about what to expect. E.g. Rommel, Caesar, Hannibal, Pyrus, Alexander, ... There is a reason why good commanders / troops were feared.

 

Part of their succes is even due to psychological effect. Think about Swiss pikes routing other pikemen, purely because they had their reputation. No farmer yolos headlong in to pikes that are coming towards him at a steady pace. 



ArmouredRa #52 Posted Aug 24 2018 - 02:04

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Thank you

AZandEL #53 Posted Sep 05 2018 - 02:18

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View PostSask_Outrider, on Sep 23 2014 - 15:39, said:

Please note:  If you do not believe you have control over your win rate please read this post: http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/227903-the-ruthless-math-of-wot-and-why-every-tank-matters/

If you still do not believe go find your tin foil hat, put it on, and stop reading this thread.

 

This is a post in a series of posts on what you can do to win more.  Here is a link to the "table of contents" of the series: http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/337049-sask-outriders-want-to-win-more-series/

 

For people that don't know XVM is a mod that indicates to you what level of skill every person in the game has based on their WN8 rating along with other configurable data such as win rate and performance in the tank they are currently driving.  The colors range as follows:

  • Red (bottom 60% of all players)
  • Orange (60% of players are worse and 25% are better)
  • Yellow (75% of players are worse and 15% are better)
  • Green (85% of players are worse and 5% are better)
  • Blue and Purple (Top 5% of players Purple being the top 0.1% of players)

 

Why is it important to know how good your team mates are and how good your enemy is?  Two words, Reliability, and Predictability.  When you load into a match there will be players that do the right thing to win the game and there will be players that will do the wrong thing.  The probability that a player will do the right thing can be based on their color.  Generally a green or better player will make better decisions in the game.  This is not a certainty but a probability.  Green, blue, and purple players make mistakes like we all do but they make mistakes far less often.  Red and Orange players on the other hand will generally make bad decisions, not because they are stupid, but because they do not know better.  They either lack the experience or the skill to make good decisions.

 

For example:  If I see an enemy pop behind a corner after shooting at me I have one of two choices.

  • I can focus the corner and shoot the enemy when he pops again or I can pull back and do something else.
  • If it is a red player that is doing the poking around the corner I will most likely focus the corner because I know that they are more than likely going to poke again.
  • If it is a green or better player I will most likely not focus the corner because he will most likely know I am focusing the corner, realize that it is a bad idea to poke the corner again and will relocate.

 

Example two: I am in a sticky situation.  I have a tank coming in from my front and there is another one flanking.  I have a team member watching the flank.

  • If it is a red player watching my flank I will most likely relocate my tank to ensure I can take on the flank if needed.  It will most likely mean I cannot meet the tank in front head on but I need to worry about my flank.
  • If it is a green or better player I will trust that he will take on the flanking tank and allow me to work on the tank that is in front of us.

 

In both examples I could be wrong and lose because of it.  The key is that I am playing the odds.  In Texas Holdem Ace King is always better than 7 4 off suit.  A 7 4 off suit can bet an Ace King but most of the time it will not so you fold.  Same thing in Tanks.

 

The group I have not talked about is the Yellow range.  I find the yellow range to be the transition that all good players had to make from begin a bad player to a good player.  When I look back at my own play when I was yellow I found that I was way better at the top of the yellow range then when I was at the bottom.

 

Thoughts?

 

SaskO

 

Thanks for making the case for why WG needs to preclude use of XVM to hobble statpadders.

DEADTIME #54 Posted Oct 20 2018 - 21:03

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WG has admitted that they seek to manipulate W/L ratios via the MM algorithm. This means they are trying to pick winners and losers. The fact that you can't accept the truth DIRECTLY FROM WG means I quit reading 1 sentence in.

 







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