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French Tech Tree Revision


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Souroy #1 Posted May 22 2011 - 19:44

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Seeing the revised trees for the existing nations, the idea of doing the same for the French tree arose in the French community (Original thread).
We've been inspired by the topic of MrVic, US Tech Tree Changes, whose ideas were kept by the devs for the revised US tree.

As the French line is not available ingame we worked a bit in the fog, not knowing how the tanks would perform ingame, so it's highly probable that some of our changes are not necessary, or even a bad thing.
Our main goal was to make the tree more logical, following the continuity of the French tank development, as well as adding new vehicles.

As basis we took the tree posted by Gaulois (Community Manager Fr) which is a bit different of the tree posted in November 2010:
Spoiler                     

And the revised version:

http://s3.noelshack....re_francais.png


2nd version with alternative Heavy lines:

http://s3.noelshack....re_francais.png

Changes - 1st Version:

TDs:

- Inversion of the S35 CA with the ARL V39: The ARL V39 is project from the end of the 30s, with a single prototype made by 1940. His armament, the same than the SAu 40 (75mm APX), and his armor (50mm max) would make him too weak for a Tier 6.
On the contrary the S35 CA is a post-war paper project using the S35 chassis to mount a high-velocity 76mm in a open casemate, he could be compared with a Panzerjäger of the German tree.

- AMX Chasseur de char - AMX Canon d'assaut de 105 - AMX Canon d'assaut de 120: New branch based on ambush and speed rather than on long-range support.

Heavies - 1st Line:

- R35 and AMX-38: Being Infantry tank they have been deplaced to the Heavy line.

- G1 P in Tier 4: The previous move open a gap in Tier 4, we filled it by retrograding the G1 P from Tier 5 to Tier 4, it would not be too powerful for his as it have less armor than the B1 Bis (Tier 4 Heavy) while having similar armament.
A faster counterpart to the B1.

- AMX Tracteur B: Replacing the G1 P as Tier 5.

- FCM 50t: Added to mark the beginning of one of the two high-tier heavies branches.

- AMX-50 100mm - AMX 65t - AMX-50 120mm: We kept this branch from the Preliminary Tech tree of November despite the fact that the AMX-50 120mm was retrograded in Tier 9.
The idea is to have a branch based on the mobility to the detriment of the protection, on the contrary of the other Heavy branch (M4 (1948) - AMX 68t - AMX 70t).

Heavies - 2nd Line:

- Choice between the B40 and the G1 B: The B40 should have been the successor of the B1 serie if it wasn't for the defeat of 1940.
It's also legitimate towards the ARL-44 as the suspensions of the B40 were clandestinely studied during the occupation and became the ones fitted on the ARL-44.
We can also mention the fact that the development of a turret fitted with a 75mm L/30 began in June 1940 and continued (always clandestinely) during the occupation. This turret was the one used on the first prototypes of the ARL-44, with a 75mm SA44 (L/40).
We kept the G1 B as the more the merrier and it would give a good alternative to the B40 (Two guns for the B40, only one for the G1 B).

- M4 (1945) - M4 (1948): From the new tree.

- AMX 68t in Tier 9: Retrograded from Tier 10 to Tier 9 to make room for the AMX 70t.

- AMX 70t: Big brother of the AMX-50 serie, sacrificing mobility to protection.

Light/Medium - 1st Line:

- H35 in Tier 2: Replacing the R35, not wise seeing the rest of this branch (H35: Cavalry tank - FCMs and G1: Infantry tank) but we had to put it somewhere.

Light/Medium - 2nd Line:

- AMR 35, AMC 35, Somua S35: Moved from the Heavy branch, now making a logical continuation of Cavalry tanks with the rest of the line.

- AMX-40 as a Medium Tank and in Tier 5: Being a project of Cavalry tank it's should logically be classed as a Medium (like the S35 and the AMC 35).
And if placed in Tier 4 the AMX-40 would probably be quickly called OP (Armor: 60/55~70/40 - Top speed (planned): 45~50 km/h - Possibility to have the G1 R turret with a 75mm ...)

- Suppression of the AMX 12t: Maybe available as Premium ?

- ELC branch: Serie of three two-man tankettes of the 50's, featuring an heavy armament and a high top speed.

Changes - 2nd Version:

An idea from Waroch, the Heavy lines are more similar to the ones on the official tree, while keeping the new tanks.
This way we are sure that we are not going to mess up with the balance (of the AMX-50 120mm principally , which was initialy a Tier 10 in the first official tree and was then retrograded to Tier 9 in this one).

New vehicles:

- AMX Chasseur de char: Paper-project (1946) of a turreted tank destroyer based on the M4 and armed with a 90mm.
Armor: Hull: 30/20/20 - Turret: 30/20/20 (not counting the mantlet).
34t for a 1200 h.p. engine.
An automatic loader with a capacity of 35 rounds was studied.

- AMX Canon d'assaut de 105: All details are on the drawing, in summary:
Armor: 70~100/30~40/15~30 (not counting the mantlet and the part around (the "V" form))
Max speed: 65 km/h - ~27t
Fitted with a 105mm.

- AMX Canon d'assaut de 120: All details are on the drawing, in summary:
Armor: 70~120/40/15~30 (not counting the mantlet)
Max speed: 65 km/h - ~30t
Fitted with a 120mm.

- AMX Tracteur B:
1939 paper-project described as a modernized mix between a D2 and a B1.
Armor: Hull: 70~80/60~70/55 - Turret: 80/70/70
47mm SA37/39 (Turret) & 75mm (Hull)

- FCM 50t: Project from 1945, more details here.

- B40: Project launched the 28th February 1940 aiming for the successor of the B1 serie. At least one moving prototype was made before the defeat.
Armor: Hull: 80/80/60 - Turret: ?/?/? (two-man turret)
47mm SA37 or 75mm L/30 (Turret) - 105mm (Hull)
Max Speed: 40 km/h - 40~45t

- M4 (1945): Probably the one showed in Armor From France (Part II)

- M4 (1948): We are not sure about this one but it could be the uparmored variant of the M4.
180mm in frontal armor.

- AMX 68t: We have nothing more than this drawing, the devs probably know more than us.

- AMX 70t: Uparmored variant of the AMX-50 serie.
Armor: Hull: 190~200/~90/~70 (LOS thickness)
The turret ring diameter is the same than on the AMX-50 120mm, two turrets are then available, the TOB-120 (which we can see on the AMX-50 of Saumur) and the TCB-120 (already on the AMX-50 120mm ingame).

- ELC EVEN: Prototypes from 1955. The idea of the ELC project was to swarm enemy armors with lot of small and nimble tanks.
2 men, 7.4t and 68 km/h
90mm.
Another version was fitted with two 30mm (30mm HSS 831.A - 300 rpm) but the penetration would probably be too weak for a Tier 6 (30mm @62° at 1000m for a derivative, the 30mm HSS 831L).

- ELC AMX: Other proposition for the ELC project.
2 men, 6.9t
90mm D914 (Vo 780m/s, intended to shoot principally  HE and HEAT).

- ELC BIS: Last model of the ELC project and evolution of the ELC AMX. Made in 1957.
Details from Saumur.

Demaskus #2 Posted May 22 2011 - 20:29

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I'd like to be the first to say that I agree with everything here. I love what you've done with it and I hope you receive due credit for it. I'd love to see this done ingame.

Souroy #3 Posted May 25 2011 - 16:23

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Thanks for the comment.  :Smile_honoring:

By the way I added a new version, with some changes on the Heavy lines.

Waroch #4 Posted May 29 2011 - 15:46

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I'd like to see the ELC Even with the twin 30mm configuration in game


Posted Image


But wouldn't it be a bit too light for a T6 tank? Maybe create a T5 ELC with the 2x30mm, and possibly a single 75mm as gun upgrade?







ps : Wouldn't this topic be better in the French vehicles or the vehicles comparison forum?

BlacKHeaDSg1 #5 Posted May 31 2011 - 19:22

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Omg, i like the ELC EVEN. Looks like little evil with big gun :D

Kosatka #6 Posted Jun 01 2011 - 02:03

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Love it. More tanks is always good, and the tier changes make sense. What else to say?

dagann #7 Posted Jun 01 2011 - 11:57

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Nice tree !
I hope wargaming will have a look on it.

The 2 heavy lines is one of the best idea ! :Smile_honoring:

Jodo42 #8 Posted Jun 05 2011 - 21:12

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Dang. Is it just me, or does the French Tree seem a bit bigger than the others? It has 53 tanks, for god's sakes! That's just....
AWESOME!!!

Loving this tree. They're gonna pwn everyone!

nozrat #9 Posted Jun 13 2011 - 16:17

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wow great new tech tree there  :Smile-playing:
maybe if the basic french tech tree has been added to game they will make the full tech tree soon

fakod1234 #10 Posted Jun 13 2011 - 16:41

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Awesome new tech tree for french good job

For Lorraine cannon d'assault maybe like this, its like medium version of AMX50 FOCH, or its like jagdpanther  :)

http://dday.migeater...-d-assaut_s.jpg

Spec =
Armament : 90mm
Length : 10.80m
Width : 3.30m
Hight : 2.60m
Speed : 62 km/h
Weight: 25 tons
with 5 Crew

hmm i cant still find another pic for AMX70t, AMX68t

Jodo42 #11 Posted Jun 15 2011 - 16:02

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Curious, when the Full Version (boxed) of WoT comes out, will French tanks be included, or for that matter, all the other alleged lines (eg, Italian, Japanese, British?). 'Cause I don't see anything about them for the full release. Sorry for this being a bit off topic, but when the full one comes out, will we still be able to play the open Beta (the current version?) And, any ideas on Premium French Tanks?

Waroch #12 Posted Jun 15 2011 - 19:47

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lol :D open beta is over since 12th of april, but it's true it looks like we're still in it sometimes ^_^


well, to give you an idea, if they implement US TDs at the end of june, it will have taken them almost a year to give us a (nearly) complete US tree. Then if they do implement (the begining of) Fr tree in september, i think it's reasonable to expect about another year of delay to have it finished and to see the uk tree coming by, bit by bit. After UK tree, maybe it will be italian or japanese or a mixed tree, who knows? Anyway it's rather for the long term...

Jodo42 #13 Posted Jun 16 2011 - 01:51

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But, the British, French, Italian, and Japanese lines WILL be included in the final version? And, my mistake about the open beta. sorry, lol. :P

Waroch #14 Posted Jun 16 2011 - 05:40

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they're on the agenda that's all we know. There's a pre-alpha british tree somewhere in this forum (try the vehicle comparison maybe?). But it's fairly old now, and i haven't hear much more from the devs on these tanks. There are also community-made italian and japanese trees, but nothing official. All we know really is the devs promised us they will make them one day...

Demaskus #15 Posted Jun 16 2011 - 06:07

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View PostJodo42, on Jun 16 2011 - 01:51, said:

But, the British, French, Italian, and Japanese lines WILL be included in the final version? And, my mistake about the open beta. sorry, lol. :P
French is next, British after that, I wouldn't expect to see Japanese or Italian tanks for at least another 8 months, if not a year.

Jodo42 #16 Posted Jun 18 2011 - 18:34

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Thanks for helping Captain N00b (me) out.

Ivan_Yuri #17 Posted Jul 01 2011 - 21:04

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I really hope that they will begin cramming in the french tanks pretty soon, me (among almost 20 - 40 M others) are anxiously awaiting the releace of the french tanks, though you were right about one thing: they did release the Americano Tanga Destruct-o-matcs (American Tank Destroyers) at the end of june, as they were released yesterday, or, the end of june! anywho, back on track, I also am hoping that wargaming.net honestly looks into your tech trees, as these are very informative, and really show what should go where! and also, I think that for the double barrel tank, it should have 2 turrets: 1 to hold a couple of differsnt configurations of double-cannons, and then once you upgrade to the second turret, you can get a stronger, one-cannon arament...

MrTankFan #18 Posted Jul 01 2011 - 21:58

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I really do like the new tanks you suggested, especially those ELC tanks (I couldn't see the ELC Bis; got a 403 error). I also like that AMX Chasseur de Char; looks very nice. I really do hope the devs take your suggestions, which I think there might be a chance for if this thread gets enough support. After all, they overhauled all three current trees after they were all (at least partially) in the game. Since the French tanks are so far off, it seems like it would be even easier to work these changes in. Plus, it gives players more choices, which is nice.

ginofavara #19 Posted Jul 06 2011 - 09:11

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tier 7 light? :o

Redwing6 #20 Posted Jul 17 2011 - 17:32

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French tanks, excepting the Samoua s35, and the H35...the rest were thouroughly obsolete by the start of the war...when you tie this to infantry based doctrine of the French Army...you end up with stupidity all around.

It would have been better to develop the British line...at least they were on the right track by the end o the war.  The Comet and Centurion were as good as any tanks in 1945.  The French on the otherhand were still stuck in a development of the Char line of obsolete tanks...it's called the AMX50...try reading the Wikipedia entry on this horrible abortion of a tank.




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