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Historical Validity Tech Trees Part Deux


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Legiondude #1 Posted Jan 01 2015 - 08:42

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#inb4WoTIsn'tHistoricallyAccurate

 

You've probably seen this before, cause I posted it a year ago and it was archived this past autumn. So now that it's been a full year, might as well repost it, and best to sneak it in when everyone is drunk off their butts from new years champagne. 

 

So, what is this thing?

Editors: T___A, Priory_of_Sion, and myself

 

These are tech trees designed to illustrate for the community the historical status of a vehicle as a whole concept. Do bear in mind that these trees are not comprehensive enough to account for every module configuration, because fact checking a minimum of 5-10 modules for almost 400 tanks is not an idea of fun for me. They were made by me for the purposes of having a quick reference for people who go on cynical rants about how World of Tanks cannot be historically accurate no matter how hard they try, and attempt to bring light to the situation on when they do. Included at the end of the list now is an Accounting tab, which breaks down the numbers into nice, clean percentages.

 

What Can the Trees do?

They CAN

- Tell you the historical degree of a vehicle in the game(or coming to the game) by their total concept(i.e. A Tiger I was a production vehicle, therefore it's green). It does in fact point out where WG's been messing around with some vehicles, but the charts are intended to point at where WG has been showing their work.

 

They CANNOT

- Tell you the degree of historical modules

- Tell you the degree of historical stats

 

Sorry, that's just a bit too complex for a spreadsheet designed like this

 

The Scale

The scale is designed to try and separate the degrees of speculation needed to bring the tank to the game

 

Heavily Modified Idea: Over an arbitrary half of the vehicles core concept was modified prior to their implementation. For example, the GW E 100 never reached the drawing board because the E 100 project never really got off the ground, it can be assumed based on the GW Tiger that Germany might go for such a vehicle, but nothing explicit was there

 

Modified Native Idea: WG had less than an arbitrary 50% of a hand in the basic idea, the Weserheutte Tiger project for example, and following French developments based on German designs, show that E 50 had some basis with a rear transmission, albeit a very distant idea from the wartime perspective

 

Native Paper Concepts: There's plenty of examples for this, any stretch from "napkin" concepts to just short of a formal blueprint

 

Formation: This is the stage at which tanks leave being a sketch on a piece of paper and have genuine time looked into them for actual construction, such as the creation of models, to help realize the tank's true form. Tanks in this section WG would have something more reliable to work from instead of the hopes and impressions of engineers who may or may not be dead at this point(There's less to speculate on)

 

Non Functioning Prototype: Construction began, but didn't reach completion for trials

Functioning Prototype: Construction was completed and the vehicle was tested at a minimum, this does not necessarily mean the vehicle is battle ready, just capable of being operated for demonstrative or testing purposes

 

Limited Production: Due to the relativity of what "limited" entails when looking at the Axis vehicles vs the Allied vehicles, the rule of thumb I work under is less than or equal to 100 tanks built. Even then, there should be plenty of data to accurate represent a vehicle of this type

Production: Ordered into some form of production greater than 100 vehicles

Foreign Design: Small indication that the vehicle used a base from another nation. Due to limitations in Google Spreadsheet's mechanism, an outline is the best I can do but also very difficult to display the indicator

 

Promotional: A relatively recent addition made to separate vehicles that are unique and contribute to the Accounting tab and additions that are repeated content with a new face. The requirements of being listed as "Promotional" instead of any of the previous categories is:

  1. Being offered for sale
  2. Representing a vehicle already implemented in the game

 

Typically these tanks are just reskins of existing vehicles, however a fancy skin does not necessarily indicate a promotional vehicle as far as these charts are concerned.

 

 

 

Found a Mistake?

 

But seriously, it's fine if you want to challenge a ranking, just be sure to bring your sources because they will be scrutinized

 

What's Next?

STILL color blind versions of the trees =.=. But you know me...

 

Pointers, tips, and thanks would all be appreciated

 

Rulings

This section is for specific vehicles explaining why they are the way they are

  • Panzer III/IV: Panzer Tracts 20-1 tells that this vehicle was to be produced in the 1944/1945 era, however a medium tank of the Panzer IV's class was no longer required and shifted towards becoming a Jagdpanzer type(this "Jagdpanzer Lang (E)" design would reach an assembled hull before it too was shut down). Because of it's proximity to becoming a real vehicle, this is listed at the Formation stage
  • VK 45.02 P Ausf. A and B: Germany's Tiger Tanks VK 45.02 to Tiger II tells us of some of the 45.02's development, and Panzer Tracts 20-1 helps cover the blanks. The development of the 45.02's(all three, including the Henschel one) are interesting in of themselves, but these sources tell that Porsche reported three VK 45.02 P's were nearing completion in February 1943, mention of them seems to drop off after that, so they are listed as Non Functioning Prototypes
  • VK 72.01 K: A picture of it's model comes from Spielberger's Special Panzer Variants. The design requirements of the VK 72.01 K project(working in tandem with the VK 70.01 K listed in Panzer Tracts 20-1) are outlined by Spielberger in SPV
  • Panzer 58 "Mutz": NOT a Promotional vehicle, while offering a fancy skin the Panzer 58 has no exact twin in the German tech tree(though the Indien Panzer is a close cousin)

Edited by Legiondude, Nov 17 2015 - 04:57.


rileigh97 #2 Posted Jan 01 2015 - 08:49

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Do you have one for all the countries? I was too lazy to read the rest. Drunk off my butt ;)

Priory_of_Sion #3 Posted Jan 01 2015 - 09:02

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View Postrileigh97, on Jan 01 2015 - 02:49, said:

Do you have one for all the countries? I was too lazy to read the rest. Drunk off my butt ;)

Click on the big "This thing" in the OP. It will lead you to the multiple spreadsheets on each country. 



Slayer_Jesse #4 Posted Jan 01 2015 - 09:03

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Woo! thanks for bringing this back. We need this stickied somewhere, If you're up for maintaining it.

Edited by Slayer_Jesse, Jan 01 2015 - 09:04.


Bronirovannyy #5 Posted Jan 01 2015 - 09:10

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View Postrileigh97, on Jan 01 2015 - 00:49, said:

Do you have one for all the countries? I was too lazy to read the rest. Drunk off my butt ;)

 

Here:

Spoiler

 


Edited by T___A, Jan 01 2015 - 09:11.


Priory_of_Sion #6 Posted Jan 01 2015 - 09:11

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What's the story behind the AT 7 being in a physical form?

Legiondude #7 Posted Jan 01 2015 - 09:41

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View PostPriory_of_Sion, on Jan 01 2015 - 02:11, said:

What's the story behind the AT 7 being in a physical form?

Not sure, trying to dig up where I could have gotten such information but it doesn't appear to be on my laptop and it was still marked as "blank" on my original offline copy



Anlushac11 #8 Posted Jan 01 2015 - 16:58

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Unless Im missing it not seeing US M7 Medium listed.

cwjian90 #9 Posted Jan 01 2015 - 17:12

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It's there as the T7

Legiondude #10 Posted Jan 01 2015 - 17:31

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View PostAnlushac11, on Jan 01 2015 - 09:58, said:

Unless Im missing it not seeing US M7 Medium listed.

View Postcwjian90, on Jan 01 2015 - 10:12, said:

It's there as the T7

Wat

 

It's right there next to the big orange T21 block



Anlushac11 #11 Posted Jan 01 2015 - 17:48

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My apologies but why is it listed as T7?

 

6th August 1942 The T7E5 was standardized as M7 medium tank. 7 examples built.

 

 



Legiondude #12 Posted Jan 01 2015 - 18:07

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View PostAnlushac11, on Jan 01 2015 - 10:48, said:

My apologies but why is it listed as T7?

Oh, you're looking at the picture up there. That picture is over a year old

 

No, follow the link and look at the actual tree



EnsignExpendable #13 Posted Jan 01 2015 - 20:46

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The Pz38nA counts as a foreign design but the JgPz38(t) doesn't?

 

Edit: also T-34-88 should be downgraded to, at most, functioning prototype, since I have only ever seen one mention that it existed that bore any credibility.


Edited by EnsignExpendable, Jan 01 2015 - 20:48.


Life_In_Black #14 Posted Jan 01 2015 - 20:51

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View PostEnsignExpendable, on Jan 01 2015 - 14:46, said:

The Pz38nA counts as a foreign design but the JgPz38(t) doesn't?

 

Edit: also T-34-88 should be downgraded to, at most, functioning prototype, since I have only ever seen one mention that it existed that bore any credibility.

 

Speaking of potentially non-existent German conversions of Soviet vehicles, ever come across anything in regards to a Sturmgeschütz SU-152 with a 12.8cm PaK 44 mounted?

Legiondude #15 Posted Jan 01 2015 - 21:07

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Ranking the T-34-88 as it is was T___A's decision

Bronirovannyy #16 Posted Jan 01 2015 - 21:21

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View PostEnsignExpendable, on Jan 01 2015 - 12:46, said:

 

Edit: also T-34-88 should be downgraded to, at most, functioning prototype, since I have only ever seen one mention that it existed that bore any credibility.

 

Done.

 

edit: It's in the German tree because even though it's in the Soviet tech tree ingame it can accept crews from both nations.


Edited by T___A, Jan 01 2015 - 21:23.


EnsignExpendable #17 Posted Jan 01 2015 - 21:48

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View PostLife_In_Black, on Jan 01 2015 - 14:51, said:

Speaking of potentially non-existent German conversions of Soviet vehicles, ever come across anything in regards to a Sturmgeschütz SU-152 with a 12.8cm PaK 44 mounted?

 

Nope, but then again, I haven't heard of any use of captured SU-152s at all.

 

View PostT___A, on Jan 01 2015 - 15:21, said:

Done.

 

edit: It's in the German tree because even though it's in the Soviet tech tree ingame it can accept crews from both nations.

 

Interesting. Any other vehicles with that feature?



Life_In_Black #18 Posted Jan 01 2015 - 22:05

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View PostEnsignExpendable, on Jan 01 2015 - 15:48, said:

 

Nope, but then again, I haven't heard of any use of captured SU-152s at all.

 

 

Interesting. Any other vehicles with that feature?

 

Well, at least one ended up at Kummersdorf at some point:

 

But I haven't been able to verify the claim of a 12.8cm rearmed one even though Terry Gander is reliable as an author as far as I know.



Walter_Sobchak #19 Posted Jan 02 2015 - 00:48

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View PostLife_In_Black, on Jan 01 2015 - 16:05, said:

 

 

But I haven't been able to verify the claim of a 12.8cm rearmed one even though Terry Gander is reliable as an author as far as I know.

I looked up Terry Gander on Amazon.  I noticed that his book "Modern Royal Airforce Aircraft" has a price range of $2.91 on the low end and $6,943.86 on the high end.  Sometimes I wonder if these third party book deals smoke crack while making up prices. 



Life_In_Black #20 Posted Jan 02 2015 - 00:54

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View PostWalter_Sobchak, on Jan 01 2015 - 18:48, said:

I looked up Terry Gander on Amazon.  I noticed that his book "Modern Royal Airforce Aircraft" has a price range of $2.91 on the low end and $6,943.86 on the high end.  Sometimes I wonder if these third party book deals smoke crack while making up prices. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised. I was relatively lucky to find on ebay the two volume set La Meccanizzazione Dell'Esercito Fino Al 1943 for what ended up being just over $90 with shipping (damn good shipping I might add, only took like three days) from Italy to here in the US.




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