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Front armor penetration... engine fire?


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D3F1LeR #1 Posted Jun 05 2011 - 04:18

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So, I was in my Sherman herping and derping, shooting Stug III's, when this Panzer 38 came up on this hill. He fired his 47mm and it bounced off my front armor. He reversed, and I shot, but I missed. He comes up again and fires his gun. This time, it penetrated my front armor, but WTF HOW DID I GET AN ENGINE FIRE?

Doesn't make any sense.

Sadukar09 #2 Posted Jun 05 2011 - 04:21

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Sherman has transmission at the front, similar to most German tanks. Transmission is not counted as a module per se, but hitting it equates to an engine hit, thus engine fire.

Whee #3 Posted Jun 05 2011 - 04:25

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View PostSadukar09, on Jun 05 2011 - 04:21, said:

Sherman has transmission at the front, similar to most German tanks. Transmission is not counted as a module per se, but hitting it equates to an engine hit, thus engine fire.

Really? I thought it's only the German tanks that have this very design. I guess the Sherman M4 is better facing the enemy with it's rear instead (Hahaha not funny)

Sadukar09 #4 Posted Jun 05 2011 - 04:27

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View PostWhee, on Jun 05 2011 - 04:25, said:

Really? I thought it's only the German tanks that have this very design. I guess the Sherman M4 is better facing the enemy with it's rear instead (Hahaha not funny)
One of the few. American heavies and I believe T20->M26 Pershing have rear mounted transmissions.

vs125r #5 Posted Jun 05 2011 - 04:33

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This is pretty much frustrating for me, they must change it (it was in CBT/OBT). Yesterday, I was on my Pz4 hanging back, sniping. Then one stray shot (HE) hit my front armor and toast me out.

Whee #6 Posted Jun 05 2011 - 04:39

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View Postvs125r, on Jun 05 2011 - 04:33, said:

This is pretty much frustrating for me, they must change it (it was in CBT/OBT). Yesterday, I was on my Pz4 hanging back, sniping. Then one stray shot (HE) hit my front armor and toast me out.

Hmm... change it? I don't think so. In my opinion, this game is quite unique as in every tank is designed the way it is in World War II. Since German tanks are generally sniper tanks because they have high accuracy, the front engine serves as a reminder that German tanks are not meant to be front line fighters.

Sadukar09 #7 Posted Jun 05 2011 - 04:43

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Frustrating yes, but it doesn't occur as often as before, which is good. I guess I got used to it from beta.

Luftwaffle #8 Posted Jun 05 2011 - 05:07

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The Sherman has its drive train running from the front, along the bottom of the hull, all the way back to the engine. This was the primary reason the Sherman was so tall, if I remember correctly. While the transmission is not the engine per se, knocking it out accomplishes the same task, and are thus counted as a single module. the T29 and up, and the T20 and up, both have rear mounted drive trains, so this stops being an issue at tier 7.

Binary101 #9 Posted Jun 05 2011 - 07:46

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View PostWhee, on Jun 05 2011 - 04:39, said:

Hmm... change it? I don't think so. In my opinion, this game is quite unique as in every tank is designed the way it is in World War II. Since German tanks are generally sniper tanks because they have high accuracy, the front engine serves as a reminder that German tanks are not meant to be front line fighters.

Getting shot from the front and set your engines on fire doesnt really serves a reminder to  anything, I generally stay back in my tiger and snipe, but because of my low camo i get revealed from quite far away one shot hits my front sets me on fire, how does this serve any sort of reminder? The german tanks generally have weaker armor and lower alphas than equivalent tiers i think that servers enough of a reminder.

It also doesnt make sence from a realistic point of view and i dont get why engine fire should damage other modules like ammo rack and radio, the engines are usually installed in separate compartment from the rest of the tank.

pekiti #10 Posted Jun 05 2011 - 12:17

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View PostBinary101, on Jun 05 2011 - 07:46, said:

It also doesnt make sence from a realistic point of view and i dont get why engine fire should damage other modules like ammo rack and radio, the engines are usually installed in separate compartment from the rest of the tank.

Realism vs 'game. This is not a simulation, it is a game. You enjoy the minimap, the radar spotting, the red outline of your target, the reticle giving you help spotting the penetration points, your crew being able to repair busted tracks in under a minute....and you complain about realism. Hahahaha!

And if you had ever been inside of an armored vehicle when something catches fire, you'd have a very clear understanding of how an engine fire (ANY fire) can rapidly damage other parts of the vehicle. Since it is clear you haven't, I will try to explain.

Everything in the vehicle is connected by wiring harnesses, for a start. Its what carries the electrical power all over the tank. If you burn up the harness in one area, its almost certain that you just broke the electrical system for the whole vehicle. The battery system is usually located under the turret, or behind it, and burning the cables that run from it to the engines (or anywhere else) usually ruins the electrical system. WW2 batteries also gave off hydrogen gas, and were prone to explosion and fire if exposed to heat or sparks. Along with the electrical system you have the hydraulics, little hoses filled with OIL that are used to move the heavy bits, like the gun, for example. Break a hydraulic line (so you let the 'cherry juice' out) and your hydraulics fail. Cherry juice is also extremely flammable. Everything that burns causes heat, and toxic fumes...these are bad things for the crew (who need to breath) and the ammo (which doesn't really like to be heated up outside of a gun barrel). Now add the fuel lines - little hoses filled with gasoline or diesel, and the fuel tanks that are stashed all over the vehicle to carry fuel. Now consider he fuel pump (s) that need electricity to push the fuel from the tanks to the engine. Lots of things that will kill you if they lose power, break, or worst of all - catch fire.

Your vehicle is a complicated weapon system...setting parts of it on fire, anywhere, messes with the entire system.

D3F1LeR #11 Posted Jun 05 2011 - 12:29

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View Postpekiti, on Jun 05 2011 - 12:17, said:

Realism vs 'game. This is not a simulation, it is a game. You enjoy the minimap, the radar spotting, the red outline of your target, the reticle giving you help spotting the penetration points, your crew being able to repair busted tracks in under a minute....and you complain about realism. Hahahaha!

And if you had ever been inside of an armored vehicle when something catches fire, you'd have a very clear understanding of how an engine fire (ANY fire) can rapidly damage other parts of the vehicle. Since it is clear you haven't, I will try to explain.

Everything in the vehicle is connected by wiring harnesses, for a start. Its what carries the electrical power all over the tank. If you burn up the harness in one area, its almost certain that you just broke the electrical system for the whole vehicle. The battery system is usually located under the turret, or behind it, and burning the cables that run from it to the engines (or anywhere else) usually ruins the electrical system. WW2 batteries also gave off hydrogen gas, and were prone to explosion and fire if exposed to heat or sparks. Along with the electrical system you have the hydraulics, little hoses filled with OIL that are used to move the heavy bits, like the gun, for example. Break a hydraulic line (so you let the 'cherry juice' out) and your hydraulics fail. Cherry juice is also extremely flammable. Everything that burns causes heat, and toxic fumes...these are bad things for the crew (who need to breath) and the ammo (which doesn't really like to be heated up outside of a gun barrel). Now add the fuel lines - little hoses filled with gasoline or diesel, and the fuel tanks that are stashed all over the vehicle to carry fuel. Now consider he fuel pump (s) that need electricity to push the fuel from the tanks to the engine. Lots of things that will kill you if they lose power, break, or worst of all - catch fire.

Your vehicle is a complicated weapon system...setting parts of it on fire, anywhere, messes with the entire system.


Ohh, I am learning.

Coldhell #12 Posted Jun 05 2011 - 13:54

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LOL... I read the title and though that it was about the KV....I get that all the time, or did get that when hit from the front.  i quit playing the KV because I was getting that in about 8 out of 10 games.

Binary101 #13 Posted Jun 06 2011 - 00:58

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View Postpekiti, on Jun 05 2011 - 12:17, said:

Realism vs 'game. This is not a simulation, it is a game. You enjoy the minimap, the radar spotting, the red outline of your target, the reticle giving you help spotting the penetration points, your crew being able to repair busted tracks in under a minute....and you complain about realism. Hahahaha!


View Postpekiti, on Jun 05 2011 - 12:17, said:

Everything in the vehicle is connected by wiring harnesses, for a start. Its what carries the electrical power all over the tank. If you burn up the harness in one area, its almost certain that you just broke the electrical system for the whole vehicle. The battery system is usually located under the turret, or behind it, and burning the cables that run from it to the engines (or anywhere else) usually ruins the electrical system. WW2 batteries also gave off hydrogen gas, and were prone to explosion and fire if exposed to heat or sparks. Along with the electrical system you have the hydraulics, little hoses filled with OIL that are used to move the heavy bits, like the gun, for example. Break a hydraulic line (so you let the 'cherry juice' out) and your hydraulics fail. Cherry juice is also extremely flammable. Everything that burns causes heat, and toxic fumes...these are bad things for the crew (who need to breath) and the ammo (which doesn't really like to be heated up outside of a gun barrel). Now add the fuel lines - little hoses filled with gasoline or diesel, and the fuel tanks that are stashed all over the vehicle to carry fuel. Now consider he fuel pump (s) that need electricity to push the fuel from the tanks to the engine. Lots of things that will kill you if they lose power, break, or worst of all - catch fire.

Your vehicle is a complicated weapon system...setting parts of it on fire, anywhere, messes with the entire system.

While this game is not a complete simulation, this is not a complete arcade shooter, the minimap and track repair are in there for the sake of gameplay but module are modelled realisticly and when you compare tranmission damage to other module damages its the odd one out in that context. Also on the fire damage we can argue than that this is a game and not a simulation so it shouldnt damage other modules, its just a game.

I wouldnt mind if i was shot from the front, the shell traveled through the tank causing damage to other models hit the engine set it on fire but it shouldnt set the engine on fire after the transmission was hit.

mdq636 #14 Posted Jun 06 2011 - 17:28

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View PostBinary101, on Jun 06 2011 - 00:58, said:

While this game is not a complete simulation, this is not a complete arcade shooter, the minimap and track repair are in there for the sake of gameplay but module are modelled realisticly and when you compare tranmission damage to other module damages its the odd one out in that context. Also on the fire damage we can argue than that this is a game and not a simulation so it shouldnt damage other modules, its just a game.

I wouldnt mind if i was shot from the front, the shell traveled through the tank causing damage to other models hit the engine set it on fire but it shouldnt set the engine on fire after the transmission was hit.


Also... you must remember that when you get hit, your tank shakes, those shaking forces can create structural damage as well. It is not the same as when you shoot, because those forces are getting somewhat compensated on the barrel joint/turret automatically, but when you get hit, there are not compensation forces to that (therefore the shaking forces are stronger). Here is a silly example, but if you drive your car and suddenly another car hits you on either side of your vehicle, I would say that 19 times out of 20+ the engine on your car will stall and stop; off course it is not the same, but you have to considered the physics involved on this.
Coming back to the hit on front and engine on rear catches fire, if your tank just happen to shake to abruptly, a fuel line can be lose/damage/rupture and fuel outside the line and spilling over an HOT and running engine will definitely get on fire.

check the stats of your tank's engine "Chance of Fire on Impact"....

Kritdonkulus #15 Posted Jun 07 2011 - 01:05

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View PostD3F1LeR, on Jun 05 2011 - 04:18, said:

So, I was in my Sherman herping and derping, shooting Stug III's, when this Panzer 38 came up on this hill. He fired his 47mm and it bounced off my front armor. He reversed, and I shot, but I missed. He comes up again and fires his gun. This time, it penetrated my front armor, but WTF HOW DID I GET AN ENGINE FIRE?

Doesn't make any sense.

Do not forget rounds can go through one end of your tank and out the other, it's called overpenetration. There are times when I'll shoot a tank once, do damage and take out both the left and right threads with 1 AP shell.

There is a possibility of the shell bouncing around the interior of the tank, maybe, I've shot a KV-2 in the turret and caught his engine on fire....My only thought was that I ammo racked him and that took out his engine module + set him on fire.