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Why I'm not going to buy the T-54 Prototype [EDIT] New data at bottom of post

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1SLUGGO1 #41 Posted Feb 21 2015 - 21:29

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View PostTsundere_Anime_Girl, on Feb 19 2015 - 04:21, said:

 ...None of these new tonks seem to be Type 59 caliber broken god tanks...

 

What?

 

View PostBear_Killer, on Feb 21 2015 - 14:19, said:

the 175 mm pen kills it for me if it sees tier X games.

 

H3LL the type 59 gets 181 penn and is limited to tier 9.

 

The Type 59 used to have higher rof, less traverse bloom, and 175mm penetration.

Bear_Killer #42 Posted Feb 21 2015 - 21:39

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View Post1SLUGGO1, on Feb 21 2015 - 15:29, said:

 

What?

 

 

The Type 59 used to have higher rof, less traverse bloom, and 175mm penetration.

 

funny that it gets pref MM while the T54 proto wont while having less penn

__SNIPER__74 #43 Posted Feb 21 2015 - 22:01

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View PostBear_Killer, on Feb 21 2015 - 21:39, said:

 

funny that it gets pref MM while the T54 proto wont while having less penn

 

premium tanks main purpose is crew grinding and credits.

 

lots of people in this thread apparently want a tank that face roll on keyboards tier 6-8 and only has some issues with 9s.

 

 

People bringing up Type 59 seem to forget that the tank qas removed from sale precisely because its too good - stop asking for a pay to win redux



The_Ghghp #44 Posted Feb 21 2015 - 22:08

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How can you grind good credits and crew exp if you can't pull any weight against tier 9s and 10s? Spamming gold = less credit profit if any at all and it's just not rewarding or fun to play. I'd make my choice carefully before spending $50 on a tank.

__SNIPER__74 #45 Posted Feb 21 2015 - 22:09

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tier 9/10 does not make up the majority of you opponents, not even close. total strawman arguement

 

and if panther shows it will be 7500g not 10k+

 

luckily wargaming will balance it to RU server stats like always, and whining NA types will be ignored 



Avalon304 #46 Posted Feb 21 2015 - 22:48

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View Post__gabriel__, on Feb 21 2015 - 13:01, said:

People bringing up Type 59 seem to forget that the tank qas removed from sale precisely because its too good - stop asking for a pay to win redux

 

 

Just to clarify: When the Type 59 was removed from sale it was OP (or atleast unbalanced). It is no longer that way.



__SNIPER__74 #47 Posted Feb 21 2015 - 22:56

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View PostAvalon304, on Feb 21 2015 - 22:48, said:

 

 

Just to clarify: When the Type 59 was removed from sale it was OP (or atleast unbalanced). It is no longer that way.

 

 

its better than its tech tree counterpart and gets pref MM  - and youll make 80k Profit for rotflstomping those Tigers.

 

if it was released today it wouldnt have pref MM even with same characterisitcs.



genghe #48 Posted Feb 21 2015 - 23:33

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Who would buy this tank? It basically plays like the Russian counterpart of the Super Pershing, and it's way more expensive in addition to not even having pref mm.

The_Ghghp #49 Posted Feb 28 2015 - 04:10

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The tank stats and armor model have been publicly released into the client. You can check it yourself with Tank Inspector now - also, I added my own analysis of the released stats into the original post. See it for yourself.

Strategos_Legio #50 Posted Apr 24 2015 - 01:37

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IF the penetration was on par with the Panther 88 and CDC, it would be worth the money. But as is, its worse in every way to my T34-3 Chinese. It pens just as well, which is poorly, but herees the kicker.

 

Alpha is low, and so is the ammo count....yeah.....

 

ROF is good.....but really, that [edited]penetration?



Strategos_Legio #51 Posted Apr 24 2015 - 01:52

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for the last time, the only OP factor of the Type 59, and this is very clear, is that it has highly angled tier 9 tough as nails armor on a Tier 8 with pref mm.

 

That's the only issue. the gun is average.

 

But this thing? 175mm penetration for a tier 8 is just unnacceptable without pref mm. It's outrageous. My Tiger P can bully the stupid thing to death.



BringOnTheSpall #52 Posted Apr 24 2015 - 02:16

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View PostAmberpaw, on Feb 19 2015 - 04:27, said:

 

compared to Type 59.  its superior in tier 8 and 9.   yes it will struggle in tier 10.  but with exp from tanking dmg coming, and that hull.  i'll take it.  

 

 

Yeah...... no........

 

You dont have a t59 so cant compare it realistically and the type 59s turret is massively better and far more abusable in all aspects  , I have been slapping these 54 protos all day in my wz132 till I got bored of 2-5 min wait times, dont even need to aim at them like I do when facing a 59. I get that you have a new shiny and love it, more power to you but it has barely anything going for it over the 59 and a whole lot of drawbacks to it, enjoy that tier 6 penetration when you new tank preferential matchmaker wears off and you are facing 10s, enjoy having 34 rounds and a much, much larger hit pool to cut through with them.

 

The 59 had its preferential MM removed and then reinstated because the tank couldnt cope against 10s, they had to capitulate due to the amount of them in the game and its previous role, the 54 proto isnt going to get preferential MM ever, the best you can hope for is buffs but wargaming isnt exactly fast with giving those out.

 

I hope you continue to love your new shiny and rock the world with it, Im not holding my breath though, good luck.



badperson #53 Posted Apr 24 2015 - 02:20

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We already have an oldmill to oldmill about every single new German tank before it's even released, so all the hysteriakids are picking up the slack, oldmilling about premiums before they are even released

 

Good job, without all of you we wouldn't know the sky is falling



BringOnTheSpall #54 Posted Apr 24 2015 - 02:22

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View Postbadperson, on Apr 24 2015 - 01:20, said:

We already have an oldmill to oldmill about every single new German tank before it's even released, so all the hysteriakids are picking up the slack, oldmilling about premiums before they are even released

 

Good job, without all of you we wouldn't know the sky is falling

 

you know its released right? .....

Strike_Witch_Tomoko #55 Posted Apr 24 2015 - 02:23

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View PostJaguaratron, on Apr 23 2015 - 18:16, said:

 

Yeah...... no........

 

You dont have a t59 so cant compare it realistically and the type 59s turret is massively better and far more abusable in all aspects  , I have been slapping these 54 protos all day in my wz132 till I got bored of 2-5 min wait times, dont even need to aim at them like I do when facing a 59. I get that you have a new shiny and love it, more power to you but it has barely anything going for it over the 59 and a whole lot of drawbacks to it, enjoy that tier 6 penetration when you new tank preferential matchmaker wears off and you are facing 10s, enjoy having 34 rounds and a much, much larger hit pool to cut through with them.

 

The 59 had its preferential MM removed and then reinstated because the tank couldnt cope against 10s, they had to capitulate due to the amount of them in the game and its previous role, the 54 proto isnt going to get preferential MM ever, the best you can hope for is buffs but wargaming isnt exactly fast with giving those out.

 

I hope you continue to love your new shiny and rock the world with it, Im not holding my breath though, good luck.

 

i dont have one?

and yet i've played one alot xD  (friends. gotta love em.  except when they hit you for doing something wrong....)

 

keep in mind i posted that a while ago

 

 

now i can post my opinion.

 

T-54-45 is still superior.  gun handling, hull.

 

but. Type 59 has the superior turret and mobility. plus prem MM

 

in the end though, i cant get Type 59. and i question if i'd want it anymore.

 

T-54-45 duel with Type 59.  with no gold. T-54-45 wins easily.

 

http://forum.worldof...totype-skin-mod

 

 

http://forum.worldof...-1-ace-mastery/


Edited by Amberpaw, Apr 24 2015 - 02:23.


BringOnTheSpall #56 Posted Apr 24 2015 - 02:44

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View PostAmberpaw, on Apr 24 2015 - 01:23, said:

 

i dont have one?

and yet i've played one alot xD  (friends. gotta love em.  except when they hit you for doing something wrong....)

 

keep in mind i posted that a while ago

 

 

now i can post my opinion.

 

T-54-45 is still superior.  gun handling, hull.

 

but. Type 59 has the superior turret and mobility. plus prem MM

 

in the end though, i cant get Type 59. and i question if i'd want it anymore.

 

T-54-45 duel with Type 59.  with no gold. T-54-45 wins easily.

 

Never say die, sometimes its just your turn to shine and you could win something, friend of mine got one from the race to the stug IV and I got a t34

 

The penetration is not up to par on the 54 proto and it will be a killer. I have the panther 8.8 and STA2, I much prefer playing the STA 2 yet do worse in it statistically and the difference comes down to 203 penetration and a higher rof with it Vs 185 and a move versatile tank. Theres no justification for 175 pen on a very expensive prem which sees tier 10s, my t95e2 has 173 pen but that was free, has a tier 10 turret, weird angled front armour and a super fast travelling heat round, doesnt make creds though and its turning circle is horrendous.....still was free and I like it......

 

Dont get me wrong, I want you to have a better tank, you may be able to make it work, I hope its really fun for you its just I can see so many issues ahead due to the pen and low ammo count.

 

Given that I cant play lights or cancer for my 55a till they fix the MM queue feel free to add me to friends list and we can bomb around in regular t8 meds and you can show me what it can do ;) I could be wrong.



sylven11 #57 Posted Apr 24 2015 - 03:00

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View PostOstwindFlakpanzer, on Feb 19 2015 - 17:23, said:

no.  just no.  no preferred MM = no money for WG.  hopefully the rest of you speak to this by keeping your wallets firmly in your pockets.  As for me and my big boy wallet It's going no where near these pay to lose tanks.  paying to lose in tier ten battles = WG arrogance at it's finest.

So by your logic pay to win is okay.



HotMachete #58 Posted Apr 24 2015 - 03:30

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I've got a fair number of premium tanks in my garage, and without a doubt, the number one thing that is make-or-break for a premium tank, is it's gun.  This is especially true for premiums that don't have preferred match making.  I'll agree with the OP and say don't waste your money buying a tank that will be unfun to play in 1/3rd of it's battles, due to it's inability to contribute meaningful damage.

xTheButcherPete #59 Posted Apr 24 2015 - 10:34

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The CDC, STA-2 and the Panther 88 all have tier 8 HEAVY matchmaking due to their penetration values, and t8 heavies have a higher MM weight, so they get placed into t10 matches commonly now.

 

The lower-pen t8 meds still get medium MM, which doesn't mean they won't see t10s, but less often than the higher pen tanks. You guys are screaming like this tank will see nothing but t10s, when it's not the Panther 88 (which is a reality with that tank)

 

and for the love of Christ, stop comparing new premiums to the Type 59. The Type 59 is in a class of its own, and it always will be.



Wet_Skunk #60 Posted Apr 24 2015 - 13:42

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View PostThe_Ghghp, on Feb 18 2015 - 23:17, said:

[EDIT] New data for tank from Tank Inspector released with the 9.6 patch at bottom of post.

 

Let's start my argument off with a link. Also, please read the entire article before negging or replying, should help on you comprehending my point, thanks. Understand that this review is based on the current stats of the tank, I could change my mind if the tank was rebalanced again.

 

http://tank-compare.com/en/compare/t-54-first-prototype/type-59/panther-mit-88-cm-l71#T1=628I519I435I743I197&T2=435I350I298I537I200&T3=547I446I373I658I241

 

As you can see, the T-54 Prototype has the worst top speed and reverse speed of all the 3 medium tanks. 44km forward and 18km backwards, severely limiting your ability to flank.

 

And while many claim the Panther 8.8 is slower than the T-54 Prototype, you could be true, but there is a massive difference in soft stats.

The Panther 8.8 has an unarguably great terrain resistance. Looking at tank-compare, it is 0.6/0.9/1.5. Now let's look at the T-54 Prototype. It is 1.1/1.2/1.9. That is horrid, severely limiting it's actual acceleration capacity. So this means that it is surprisingly very slow on flat ground, and the mobility is nowhere near the Type 59 or even Panther 8.8, except when you are climbing hills as the pw/wt ratio IS higher than the Panther 8.8's. But you aren't a hill fighter either, with a rather poor -6 degrees of gun depression - this IS a significant difference from the -7 of the Type 59. Think the difference between the Object 140 and the T-62A when utilizing gun depression.

 

Yes, the armor values look simply awesome on paper, and when you think of the T-54's good sloping, it's amazing for tier 8. However let's look at the actual data for any parts you may have missed from the statistics given on paper.

 

Another link: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/12/30/t-54-prototype-historical-data/

 

When reading through the wall of text, you can see the entire roof armor of the turret is only 15mm. This means for abysmal protection from arty when combined with its mediocre speed, and also means that any tank on slightly taller ground, or any tank that is slightly taller than the T-54 prototype, will easily penetrate it every time at ANY angle over there as long as its caliber is 75mm or higher due to overmatching mechanics - calibers lower than that are VERY rarely seen for its tier level. Combined with the T-54 prototype's lower profile and the fact that it is simply configured for brawling in close quarters, any competent player knowing this fact can easily damage and defeat it. Also, when reading the slopes of the lower plate, it is significantly less than the T-54. The upper plate is almost the same as the T-54, but the lower plate is a great deal less sloped. It is only at 45 degrees, while the T-54's lower plate is approximately at 62 degrees. This cuts down its effective armor from nearly 230mm to a measly 157mm. Next, the gun mantlet is 180mm but unsloped, and if it follows the T-44's armor setup pattern (which it should, as it is based on the T-44), nothing will be behind it, so the effective turret armor is really only a bit over 180mm in it's hardest point. So, overall, the T-54 Prototype's armor is a great margin worse than advertised, and the fact that it will quite oftenly face tier 10 tanks, as it lacks preferential MM, makes the situation even worse.

 

Finally, let's look at the arnament. It has 250 alpha damage, which is average for a medium. However, it only has 175mm of penetration. This, combined with the fact its rather low mobility means it simply will struggle to penetrate many of the targets it faces. The APCR round is decent at 235 penetration, but no one wants to be firing gold if they can avoid it, especially in a premium tank that is supposed to be earning credits. The aim time is somewhat slow at 2.6 seconds, the accuracy ok at 0.38, and then we run into another problem. The ROF is only 7.41, which is slow for its alpha damage, putting out a DPM of a mere 1852.5 damage base, and the gun doesn't have the accuracy, gun handling, gun depression, penetration, or alpha damage to make up for it. In short, the gun is definitely a sore point for the tank. It won't help much against many of the tanks it faces, it's not like it can flank well to make up for its pen, AND even then the damage output is insufficient.

 

Miscellaneous: The traverse speed is fairly decent at 42 degrees, but it is limited in reality due to poor terrain resistance. The view range is unexceptional, at 380 meters of view range. 40 degrees of turret traverse is decent. The price is very high, in fact the highest for a tier 8 medium as of now, at 11,600 gold according to Tank Inspector. This is more expensive than even the T-34-3. The crew luckily fits the russian medium line tanks from tier 7 to 10 (all crew members except radio operator). The HP pool is another low at 1300 HP.

 

TL;DR and summary: The T-54 Prototype may seem quite good at a first glance, but after closer inspection you will see that it is quite mediocre in many, many aspects, and the lack of pref MM is the final straw into making an expensive, overrated, and overall poor new tier 8 premium medium. If I had something good to say about this tank (other than armor), I would say that it is very well balanced and is far from the initially OP monster that was the Type 59, WG learned from that at least. But if you're tired of running the Matilda IV when training your crews, and have lots of money to spend for your absolute favorite tank line instead of a better premium, go ahead and get it. I know I'm not going to fall in WG's hype/money scheme trap, I'm going to wait until they rebalance it again or ever will.

 

FCM 50T it is then for my next premium! Now I know THAT thing has been proven many times to be a real awesome tank. Seriously, I beg you guys to take a second look before buying the T-54 Prototype. It's far worse than its high public reputation.

 

[EDIT]

The T-54 Prototype model and data has come on in Tank Inspector, and it's just as bad as I imagined.

 

As you can see:

That roof armor. Totally not a weakspot able to be penetrated through by any tank it meets (45mm gun or higher caliber).

 

Unsloped turret cheeks, think T110E4.

 

Dat gun mantlet though. Basically flat with a massive zero-armor hole behind it.

 

"Lower plate is not a weak point." If you call a lower plate like Jagdtiger 8.8's "not a weak point".

 

 

And finally, here are the soft stats. Let's see about this acclaimed "amazing Russian gun handling". There's a reason why you see so many red arrows.

Incredibly weak module HP (especially dat ammo rack), 34 ammo capacity, 175mm penetration, terrible terrain resistance, no preferential MM, higher price than an IS-6, and terribad gun handling. Just doesn't look like a tank worth buying, even if they lower the price. Even the STA-2 and Panther 8.8 simply can't compare to this tank's level of awfulness, inflexibility, underperforming stats in practically every aspect. Since WG already modeled all the T-54 Prototype's stats, it is unlikely that they will change it to a large extent again, especially since they already have rebalanced once in the Supertest. Even with a few buffs, this tank will still be quite atrocious. Think a Super Pershing that meets tier 10s on a regular basis. 

 

After reading your thorough review, I decided to buy the tank.




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