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Why I'm not going to buy the T-54 Prototype [EDIT] New data at bottom of post

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RunninKurt #61 Posted Apr 24 2015 - 13:55

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View PostThe_Ghghp, on Feb 21 2015 - 22:08, said:

How can you grind good credits and crew exp if you can't pull any weight against tier 9s and 10s? Spamming gold = less credit profit if any at all and it's just not rewarding or fun to play. I'd make my choice carefully before spending $50 on a tank.

 

My T95E2 has no extra credit generation, and has even lower pen values than the T-54 First. I still make plenty of credits with it. Stop being a baddie and assuming every time you face a tank of a higher tier or with more armor that you have to load gold.

I suggest you learn how to disengage from a poor situation and reengage in a favorable situation. That is the #1 downfall of a pubbie in my opinion. Many think, "Well, I am here, you are here, lets load gold and slug it out"

Relocate dude.



_Koi #62 Posted Apr 24 2015 - 13:59

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Has the OP even played it on the live server where people don't shoot exclusively premium ammo?

 

 

must not have because I actually have and this tank is OP as fk

 

I mean FFS my expected damage per game is higher than my M103 , T54e1, and creeping up on the Foch.



BringOnTheSpall #63 Posted Apr 24 2015 - 22:57

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View Post_Koiboy, on Apr 24 2015 - 12:59, said:

Has the OP even played it on the live server where people don't shoot exclusively premium ammo?

 

 

must not have because I actually have and this tank is OP as fk

 

I mean FFS my expected damage per game is higher than my M103 , T54e1, and creeping up on the Foch.

 

how is it remotely op?

 

I cant help feeling some are suffering from the euphoria of the "new tank" matchmaker which stacks odds in your favour for 10-30 battles, especially given how you have five battles in it at the time of me writing this



ZeBilly #64 Posted Apr 24 2015 - 23:16

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View PostJaguaratron, on Apr 24 2015 - 14:57, said:

 

how is it remotely op?

 

I cant help feeling some are suffering from the euphoria of the "new tank" matchmaker which stacks odds in your favour for 10-30 battles, especially given how you have five battles in it at the time of me writing this

 

Probably an accurate assumption there, i didnt try it on test as it didnt matter tbh, i watched the youtube vids on it and how it looked to perform and decided that even if it didnt perform near that i was going to buy it reguardless, as i wanted a proper medium trainer for a USSR crew.

 

The first handful of games put a sh*teating grin on my face cause of that troll armor, but as i played it more and got into more tier 10 games i really saw how it really performs. (or underperforms i should say)

 

While i still do not really regret buying it as a trainer i still think it just needs a bit more....zip?

its "sluggish" as my SP is "sluggish", if it just had a better terrain resistance and maybe a touch better performance all around i would be much more content.

 

All in all i should have waited for it to come on special at whatever point, i think however that both the SP and this tank are not at the correct price point for performance value.


Edited by ZeBilly, Apr 24 2015 - 23:17.


_Marine #65 Posted Apr 24 2015 - 23:25

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Hmm... wondering if the T59 will lose its pref MM?

 

Its worlds better w/ its armor over the T54P



_Koi #66 Posted Apr 25 2015 - 00:00

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View PostJaguaratron, on Apr 24 2015 - 21:57, said:

 

how is it remotely op?

 

I cant help feeling some are suffering from the euphoria of the "new tank" matchmaker which stacks odds in your favour for 10-30 battles, especially given how you have five battles in it at the time of me writing this

 

I understand your skepticism, I was very skeptical too for the longest time, and I refused to buy one.

 

However someone gifted me the tank, and after having played it I COMPLETELY changed my mind. there isnt one single feature that I can point out that really explains why it is the amazing tank that it is (besides the armor but that is a given, and is only reliable in tier 8 or 9 max). Its just that all the small assets that this tank has just come together and synergize. 

 

 

So ill stick to simple facts.

 

This: would not be possible in anything less than a good tank.

Spoiler

 

And not only that but in the 15 or so games I have played (14 according to the hangar stats) I have averaged 1800 damage per game. Yes, which is more than my M103

 

 

The credits coefficient is almost certainly the best if not one of the best in the game. You can literally spam 100% apcr and come back with a net profit of over 15,000 creds.

 

It may not be the the "best" tier 8 premium because others have preferred MM. But IMO it is the most fun out of all the ones I own, and is easily one of the best non premium tier 8 tanks.

plus its a russian medium crew trainer so even if it was crap it would still have a place in the game.



Ecksdeee #67 Posted Apr 25 2015 - 01:01

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View PostThe_Ghghp, on Feb 19 2015 - 05:17, said:

[EDIT] New data for tank from Tank Inspector released with the 9.6 patch at bottom of post.

 

Let's start my argument off with a link. Also, please read the entire article before negging or replying, should help on you comprehending my point, thanks. Understand that this review is based on the current stats of the tank, I could change my mind if the tank was rebalanced again.

 

http://tank-compare.com/en/compare/t-54-first-prototype/type-59/panther-mit-88-cm-l71#T1=628I519I435I743I197&T2=435I350I298I537I200&T3=547I446I373I658I241

 

As you can see, the T-54 Prototype has the worst top speed and reverse speed of all the 3 medium tanks. 44km forward and 18km backwards, severely limiting your ability to flank.

 

And while many claim the Panther 8.8 is slower than the T-54 Prototype, you could be true, but there is a massive difference in soft stats.

The Panther 8.8 has an unarguably great terrain resistance. Looking at tank-compare, it is 0.6/0.9/1.5. Now let's look at the T-54 Prototype. It is 1.1/1.2/1.9. That is horrid, severely limiting it's actual acceleration capacity. So this means that it is surprisingly very slow on flat ground, and the mobility is nowhere near the Type 59 or even Panther 8.8, except when you are climbing hills as the pw/wt ratio IS higher than the Panther 8.8's. But you aren't a hill fighter either, with a rather poor -6 degrees of gun depression - this IS a significant difference from the -7 of the Type 59. Think the difference between the Object 140 and the T-62A when utilizing gun depression.

 

Yes, the armor values look simply awesome on paper, and when you think of the T-54's good sloping, it's amazing for tier 8. However let's look at the actual data for any parts you may have missed from the statistics given on paper.

 

Another link: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/12/30/t-54-prototype-historical-data/

 

When reading through the wall of text, you can see the entire roof armor of the turret is only 15mm. This means for abysmal protection from arty when combined with its mediocre speed, and also means that any tank on slightly taller ground, or any tank that is slightly taller than the T-54 prototype, will easily penetrate it every time at ANY angle over there as long as its caliber is 75mm or higher due to overmatching mechanics - calibers lower than that are VERY rarely seen for its tier level. Combined with the T-54 prototype's lower profile and the fact that it is simply configured for brawling in close quarters, any competent player knowing this fact can easily damage and defeat it. Also, when reading the slopes of the lower plate, it is significantly less than the T-54. The upper plate is almost the same as the T-54, but the lower plate is a great deal less sloped. It is only at 45 degrees, while the T-54's lower plate is approximately at 62 degrees. This cuts down its effective armor from nearly 230mm to a measly 157mm. Next, the gun mantlet is 180mm but unsloped, and if it follows the T-44's armor setup pattern (which it should, as it is based on the T-44), nothing will be behind it, so the effective turret armor is really only a bit over 180mm in it's hardest point. So, overall, the T-54 Prototype's armor is a great margin worse than advertised, and the fact that it will quite oftenly face tier 10 tanks, as it lacks preferential MM, makes the situation even worse.

 

Finally, let's look at the arnament. It has 250 alpha damage, which is average for a medium. However, it only has 175mm of penetration. This, combined with the fact its rather low mobility means it simply will struggle to penetrate many of the targets it faces. The APCR round is decent at 235 penetration, but no one wants to be firing gold if they can avoid it, especially in a premium tank that is supposed to be earning credits. The aim time is somewhat slow at 2.6 seconds, the accuracy ok at 0.38, and then we run into another problem. The ROF is only 7.41, which is slow for its alpha damage, putting out a DPM of a mere 1852.5 damage base, and the gun doesn't have the accuracy, gun handling, gun depression, penetration, or alpha damage to make up for it. In short, the gun is definitely a sore point for the tank. It won't help much against many of the tanks it faces, it's not like it can flank well to make up for its pen, AND even then the damage output is insufficient.

 

Miscellaneous: The traverse speed is fairly decent at 42 degrees, but it is limited in reality due to poor terrain resistance. The view range is unexceptional, at 380 meters of view range. 40 degrees of turret traverse is decent. The price is very high, in fact the highest for a tier 8 medium as of now, at 11,600 gold according to Tank Inspector. This is more expensive than even the T-34-3. The crew luckily fits the russian medium line tanks from tier 7 to 10 (all crew members except radio operator). The HP pool is another low at 1300 HP.

 

TL;DR and summary: The T-54 Prototype may seem quite good at a first glance, but after closer inspection you will see that it is quite mediocre in many, many aspects, and the lack of pref MM is the final straw into making an expensive, overrated, and overall poor new tier 8 premium medium. If I had something good to say about this tank (other than armor), I would say that it is very well balanced and is far from the initially OP monster that was the Type 59, WG learned from that at least. But if you're tired of running the Matilda IV when training your crews, and have lots of money to spend for your absolute favorite tank line instead of a better premium, go ahead and get it. I know I'm not going to fall in WG's hype/money scheme trap, I'm going to wait until they rebalance it again or ever will.

 

FCM 50T it is then for my next premium! Now I know THAT thing has been proven many times to be a real awesome tank. Seriously, I beg you guys to take a second look before buying the T-54 Prototype. It's far worse than its high public reputation.

 

[EDIT]

The T-54 Prototype model and data has come on in Tank Inspector, and it's just as bad as I imagined.

 

As you can see:

That roof armor. Totally not a weakspot able to be penetrated through by any tank it meets (45mm gun or higher caliber).

 

Unsloped turret cheeks, think T110E4.

 

Dat gun mantlet though. Basically flat with a massive zero-armor hole behind it.

 

"Lower plate is not a weak point." If you call a lower plate like Jagdtiger 8.8's "not a weak point".

 

 

And finally, here are the soft stats. Let's see about this acclaimed "amazing Russian gun handling". There's a reason why you see so many red arrows.

Incredibly weak module HP (especially dat ammo rack), 34 ammo capacity, 175mm penetration, terrible terrain resistance, no preferential MM, higher price than an IS-6, and terribad gun handling. Just doesn't look like a tank worth buying, even if they lower the price. Even the STA-2 and Panther 8.8 simply can't compare to this tank's level of awfulness, inflexibility, underperforming stats in practically every aspect. Since WG already modeled all the T-54 Prototype's stats, it is unlikely that they will change it to a large extent again, especially since they already have rebalanced once in the Supertest. Even with a few buffs, this tank will still be quite atrocious. Think a Super Pershing that meets tier 10s on a regular basis. 

 

Have you even played the actual T-54? It has literally the same roof over match problems.

_JaggedTiger_ #68 Posted Apr 28 2015 - 16:49

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I purchased this tank... And while in same Tier matches it does every well... As soon as its up tiered its extremely over matched.  the "armor" value nearly becomes a moot point and the weaknesses of the tank are compounded.  It's slow, lack luster gun... Poor penetration. 

 

The saving grace of the Type 59 is the match making it gets.  This tank does not get that and therefore gets wrecked in higher tier play.  I am sure there are some people who get lucky and get top tier matches frequently... But I find myself constantly in Tier X matches with this and it sucks.  Yes, you do need to spam premium ammo if you want to pen hardly anything... And even then it struggles because of the poor pen values.

 

The Type 59 has better Penetration across the board, albeit a slightly slower reload.

 

I think that to many people are overly "hyped" by watching unicums stream gameplay of this tank stating "its the new Type 59"   AND  in theory it is... For its tier, BUT... you are not going to be spending much time in Tier 8/9...  And if you got this to make money... Good luck, the gun sucks vs high tiers and unless you want to spend money to pen.  You will find yourself hiding and trying to just got pot shots.



KiloViper #69 Posted Apr 29 2015 - 02:01

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hope all you do buy the t-54 p cuz i owned a sp for 2 years i will own you in a t-54

The_Ghghp #70 Posted Apr 29 2015 - 05:40

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View PostRunninKurt, on Apr 24 2015 - 12:55, said:

 

My T95E2 has no extra credit generation, and has even lower pen values than the T-54 First. I still make plenty of credits with it. Stop being a baddie and assuming every time you face a tank of a higher tier or with more armor that you have to load gold.

I suggest you learn how to disengage from a poor situation and reengage in a favorable situation. That is the #1 downfall of a pubbie in my opinion. Many think, "Well, I am here, you are here, lets load gold and slug it out"

Relocate dude.

 

If someone has to be very good and work quite hard in order to earn credits/just buy a premium account, in order to make good credits in a premium tank that costs 50 dollars in real money, then I feel like it's not really worth playing...

 

The fact that you have to load gold for many situations in order to actually do something is already harmful enough to your overall credit earnings. It's not like the T-54 Prototype has enough speed to flank. You can make the tank work, as with any tank (except some arty), but the end result is a lower skill ceiling and performance overall, and therefore lower credit and exp income, since you have to work very hard in order to mitigate the tank's numerous weaknesses.


Edited by The_Ghghp, Apr 29 2015 - 05:46.


King_Baboon #71 Posted Apr 29 2015 - 06:56

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Any tier 8 that does not have pref MM sucks if you play them when the server population is low.  Low server pop = more tier 10 battles. I hate having to avoid a certain tier because of what time of the day it is.

OstwindFlakpanzer #72 Posted Apr 29 2015 - 12:49

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View PostKing_Baboon, on Apr 28 2015 - 23:56, said:

Any tier 8 that does not have pref MM sucks if you play them when the server population is low.  Low server pop = more tier 10 battles. I hate having to avoid a certain tier because of what time of the day it is.

 

+1 bro.  these new tanks are all pay to lose - you end up in tier 10 battles way to much.  better off getting an IS6 or FCM than this garbage.  Far less frustrating.  My big boy wallet is staying closed till they come to their senses.

Edited by OstwindFlakpanzer, Apr 29 2015 - 12:50.


Lifelessgamer #73 Posted Apr 29 2015 - 13:53

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T-54 Proto looks like a fine tank.

 

Premium pen seems a bit low to me, would have wanted it to be 250 for tier 10 games.  Speed looks workable, armor looks fine, gun looks okay, and tier 10 games will leave you feeling the same way as that tier 6 tank you shot in the game before.

 

Anyone who ever said how they wanted a type 59.  Here is a similar tank for you.



ledhed14 #74 Posted Apr 29 2015 - 15:59

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Whatever the paper stats say they do not give an picture of the Tank and how it performs in game .  I bought it because Russia did not have a tier eight Crew trainer for mediums . It is beyond a doubt one the best choices I have made on premium tanks . did not know it at the time , to me this is as close to the Type59 as WG will get with new premiums . Like the Rus mediums and especially the T44 it has ammo rack troubles . We have skills and wet ammo equipment if it gets to big an issue . Ran the wet ammo on my T44 from when I bought it . I still have a couple in WH . 

 I find it a typical Russian medium and with armour that allows it to go medium to close range and rumble with most anything it should be sensibly engaging .

 The down sides are ammo rack as noted and the gun limitations for elevation and depression .

 Gun itself is fine for a premium and typical Russian line .

 This a GOOD premium tank and well worth the cash if you are invested in the Russian line .

 Its may not be fast but it is fast enough . It is not a SP it has adequate speed and acceleration . Its a good all around Russian style medium tank even without the premium it gives .

Thats my take on it from using it .

 I have all the other tier eight premiums to compare it with .  It fits in a nice slot of its own now , as its unlike the others in all ways that matter both good and bad .



Gwennifer #75 Posted Apr 29 2015 - 16:26

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Re:LFP armor: Yes, any LFP armor will be trash when you are staring up at it. Even the Maus's LFP is easily penned when you are underneath the thing. Zoom out and flatten out your camera before you pull an armor thickness on it, you are not playing with ant-tanks.

 

The DPM, alpha damage, etc are all identical to the T-44, except the T-54 proto has a mildly faster shell velocity. If these are 'weak points', then surely the variant of the tank in the same tier with MUCH thinner armor should have better statistics...?

 

You should honestly compare the armor profiles of the T-54P and T-44; speed is no substitute for armor. You cannot outrun shells and even agile tier 10 mediums like the STB-1/Object 140 find a need for turret armor. Barring the engine, gun, and radio, they have identical module healths and health values. I'm sure you can find the suggestion forum if you think the T-44 is underpowered.

 

The T-54 Proto has enough armor to take objectives just like a T-44 and T-54 and fares better than the T-44 at least when it gets there.

 

I'll agree that it's overpriced, and Tank Inspector paints a different picture of its price. It might be a better idea to use CW gold or tournament winnings on it than money.



RunninKurt #76 Posted Apr 29 2015 - 16:29

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View PostThe_Ghghp, on Apr 29 2015 - 05:40, said:

 

If someone has to be very good and work quite hard in order to earn credits/just buy a premium account, in order to make good credits in a premium tank that costs 50 dollars in real money, then I feel like it's not really worth playing...

 

The fact that you have to load gold for many situations in order to actually do something is already harmful enough to your overall credit earnings. It's not like the T-54 Prototype has enough speed to flank. You can make the tank work, as with any tank (except some arty), but the end result is a lower skill ceiling and performance overall, and therefore lower credit and exp income, since you have to work very hard in order to mitigate the tank's numerous weaknesses.

 

Oh, so you would support it had it been a Pay2Win tank. Gotcha.

jawmonkey #77 Posted Apr 29 2015 - 16:30

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Seeing it in action it seems really slow, but meh, maybe there'll be a mission for it sometime?

BringOnTheSpall #78 Posted Apr 29 2015 - 16:40

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View PostLifelessgamer, on Apr 29 2015 - 12:53, said:

T-54 Proto looks like a fine tank.

 

Premium pen seems a bit low to me, would have wanted it to be 250 for tier 10 games.  Speed looks workable, armor looks fine, gun looks okay, and tier 10 games will leave you feeling the same way as that tier 6 tank you shot in the game before.

 

Anyone who ever said how they wanted a type 59.  Here is a similar tank for you.

 

yeah people have been clamouring to take their t59s into t10 matches especially after the tank had to have its pref mm reinstated because it couldnt cope......The type 59 is a mediocre t8 medium, what makes the tank is the preferential matchmaking, nothing more so a similar tank without it and LESS penetration is not a ringing endorsement.

 

Also no one singing the tanks praises seems to have more than 50 matches in the thing, some of them dont even have the tank (or zero matches in it),,,,,,,



The_Ghghp #79 Posted May 02 2015 - 01:00

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View PostRunninKurt, on Apr 29 2015 - 15:29, said:

 

Oh, so you would support it had it been a Pay2Win tank. Gotcha.

 

I'm just listing out the reasons on why you shouldn't buy the tank. If it was pay to win, then the tank would've been a money grab by WG; that's not something I'd support either. But what the tank is right now is pay to lose...

Edited by The_Ghghp, May 02 2015 - 01:00.


Lifelessgamer #80 Posted May 02 2015 - 06:25

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View PostJaguaratron, on Apr 29 2015 - 15:40, said:

 

yeah people have been clamouring to take their t59s into t10 matches especially after the tank had to have its pref mm reinstated because it couldnt cope......The type 59 is a mediocre t8 medium, what makes the tank is the preferential matchmaking, nothing more so a similar tank without it and LESS penetration is not a ringing endorsement.

 

Also no one singing the tanks praises seems to have more than 50 matches in the thing, some of them dont even have the tank (or zero matches in it),,,,,,,

I agree T-54-prot doesn't deserve any praise when in a tier 10 game.  It is a tier 8 tank though and it will bully tier 6-7 tanks, hold it's own in tier 8, be food for most of tier 9, and need to use very good awareness in tier 10.  IS-6 has 217 pen premium rounds and only the toughest tier 9 armor give it trouble, the pen is workable if you allow it to be.




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