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Why I'm not going to buy the T-54 Prototype [EDIT] New data at bottom of post

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AnOffensiveUsername #81 Posted May 02 2015 - 06:54

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wont buy it becuz im nawt spending mony on tis gaem. nice job creating another tank I wont buy wergamin. t :trollface: t


Edited by xX_Get_Rekt_Xx, May 02 2015 - 06:56.


1SLUGGO1 #82 Posted May 02 2015 - 07:35

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View Postjawmonkey, on Apr 29 2015 - 10:30, said:

Seeing it in action it seems really slow, but meh, maybe there'll be a mission for it sometime?

 

well, they buffed the heck out of it to imaginary levels (much like the t-54) just so they could put it in the game.  Interestingly enough, they were not willing to do that with the t-44-85.  The real t-54 proto would be happy if it could beat an at-15 in traverse or speed in a race across a map.

TRex747 #83 Posted May 02 2015 - 09:15

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As a T54 Prototype owner, I confirm that this tank is OP when it get into tier 8 game. Love the YOLO moments when I see tanks with 175 penetration or below. This tank kills scout tanks like no other. Let face it, It's Russian premium tank, so it should be ok.  

Edited by TRex747, May 02 2015 - 09:16.


CrazyNikel #84 Posted May 02 2015 - 09:55

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So....

 

....

 

 

....

 

 

......

 

 

is it worth a buy?



mattwong #85 Posted May 02 2015 - 10:20

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View PostCrazyNikel, on May 02 2015 - 03:55, said:

So....

 

....

 

 

....

 

 

......

 

 

is it worth a buy?

 

Of course it is.  It poops money.

 

You can absolutely bully people in tier 8 games, and you can be competitive in tier 9 games with APCR.  In tier 10 games, your gun is so weak that you can't penetrate many tanks even from the side (even with premium rounds), so bide your time and wait for opportunities against weaker foes.



TRex747 #86 Posted May 02 2015 - 19:09

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View PostKing_Baboon, on Apr 29 2015 - 06:56, said:

Any tier 8 that does not have pref MM sucks if you play them when the server population is low.  Low server pop = more tier 10 battles. I hate having to avoid a certain tier because of what time of the day it is.

 

Preference match making is overrated. Even when you are in tier 10 games, it's likely only 3 to 4 tier 10 tanks and not all of them are heavily armored. Plus this tank can reliably penetrate E100 from the side with premium ammo. It seems not being able to penetrate tier 10 heavy tanks from the front is a big deal, but in reality, you NEVER want to fight tier 10 heavy tanks head on in a tier 8 medium no matter how much penetration its gun has.  

wc_nighthawk #87 Posted May 02 2015 - 22:42

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How best can I describe this tank?  An up-armored T-44?  This bad boy can bounce shots most other mediums of same tier can only dream about.  Do you see tier 10's?  Sure.  Just play it like any other time you are in a t8 medium in a t10 match.  If you can make the T-44 work for you, you can make the T-54 mod 1 work for you.  This tank isn't half as bad as some people make it out to be.  I've had a blast playing it so far.



OstwindFlakpanzer #88 Posted May 05 2015 - 16:51

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what these folks singing it's praises won't tell you is that you're in tier 10 90% of the time hahahahaha.

Ecksdeee #89 Posted May 05 2015 - 20:04

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View PostOstwindFlakpanzer, on May 05 2015 - 16:51, said:

what these folks singing it's praises won't tell you is that you're in tier 10 90% of the time hahahahaha.

 

Which literally doesn't affect a player smart enough to not face roll into the front of an e100. 

DopeRaider #90 Posted May 05 2015 - 20:41

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I like mine.  My buddies and I all have 53%+ winrates in our Mod 1s, so it certainly isn't gimping our teams. I make a profit even when I need to use some premium rounds.  I can plop my bada$$ T54 crew in there for giggles, or I can train up my other Soviet medium crew - neither of which I can do with an IS-6.  It has a short, flat profile, it bounces shots like a champ, does well face-hugging in a pinch, has ACPR when 175 pen isn't quite enough, seemingly good camo values, and has sufficient mobility to do what needs to be done. I'll say it again:  Anyone wanting a premium unicorn-of-doom tank (or a Type 59) is going to be disappointed. Anyone wanting a USSR medium crew trainer and moneymaker will be fine with it.

IdahoRenegade #91 Posted May 06 2015 - 04:47

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I like mine.  It's a premium tank, which supposedly means that it is gimped in some way against same-tier "standard" tanks.  Compared to other tier 8 mediums, I see it as at least as good.  The T-44 I enjoyed and did well with, by my standards.  But it was a VERY situational tank.  It's armor was paper, you have to play it as if every hit you take will pen.  On today's sheltered, corridor maps, it can be tough to contribute, especially early in the game.  The 1st proto is somewhat slower, but still capable of flexing and flanking.  In return it gets very capable armor that will allow it to bully most tier 6 and 7 heavy tanks, bounce most tier 8 and even some tier 9 mediums and bounce some tier 8-9 heavies.  I've gotten some lucky bounces even from tier 10s.  The gun is lacking, but so is the "standard" tier 8 T-44.  Same pen and damage, worse aim time but IIRC a better rate of fire.  Not as much fun as the T-54, but a very capable tier 8 medium.  It devours Super Pershings, T-44s and CDCs that try to take it on frontally.  Worst nightmare with mine for a tier 8...coming up against a good driver with another 1st proto.  Even the gold round bounces a lot off the frontal armor of one.

Edited by IdahoRenegade, May 06 2015 - 04:48.


69db #92 Posted Mar 06 2016 - 17:35

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Wish I had read this thread before buying mine. If you're thinking about buying this turd- don't. Save your money. 

 

-I haven't got concrete stats, but I think its safe to say that most of the time you're going to be fighting higher tiers (tier 8's are a rarity for me anyway).

-Usually you're only chance to pen is to use gold (negating its credit earning capabilities).

-Its slow as hell which completely negates being in a med in the first place.

-Its only saving grace is the bouncy frontal (hull) armor. That's great if you're facing a noob head-on who doesn't know to shoot your turret (again its worth pointing out that most of the time you'll be facing t9 and even t10 players).

 

If you like brawling avoid this crap like the plague. After shelling out nearly $40 for mine I can't help but feel as though I've been trolled by WG (this feeling is cemented every-time I find myself facing a Tier 9 -which is often). You have been warned...



Blue_Light #93 Posted Mar 06 2016 - 18:41

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View Post69db, on Mar 06 2016 - 10:35, said:

Wish I had read this thread before buying mine. If you're thinking about buying this turd- don't. Save your money. 

 

-I haven't got concrete stats, but I think its safe to say that most of the time you're going to be fighting higher tiers (tier 8's are a rarity for me anyway).

-Usually you're only chance to pen is to use gold (negating its credit earning capabilities).

-Its slow as hell which completely negates being in a med in the first place.

-Its only saving grace is the bouncy frontal (hull) armor. That's great if you're facing a noob head-on who doesn't know to shoot your turret (again its worth pointing out that most of the time you'll be facing t9 and even t10 players).

 

If you like brawling avoid this crap like the plague. After shelling out nearly $40 for mine I can't help but feel as though I've been trolled by WG (this feeling is cemented every-time I find myself facing a Tier 9 -which is often). You have been warned...

 

Reroll?


Edited by Blue_Light, Mar 06 2016 - 18:42.


OstwindFlakpanzer #94 Posted Mar 07 2016 - 17:32

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View Post69db, on Mar 06 2016 - 10:35, said:

Wish I had read this thread before buying mine. If you're thinking about buying this turd- don't. Save your money. 

 

-I haven't got concrete stats, but I think its safe to say that most of the time you're going to be fighting higher tiers (tier 8's are a rarity for me anyway).

-Usually you're only chance to pen is to use gold (negating its credit earning capabilities).

-Its slow as hell which completely negates being in a med in the first place.

-Its only saving grace is the bouncy frontal (hull) armor. That's great if you're facing a noob head-on who doesn't know to shoot your turret (again its worth pointing out that most of the time you'll be facing t9 and even t10 players).

 

If you like brawling avoid this crap like the plague. After shelling out nearly $40 for mine I can't help but feel as though I've been trolled by WG (this feeling is cemented every-time I find myself facing a Tier 9 -which is often). You have been warned...

 

this guy gets it.  don't buy non preferred mm tier 8 tanks.  90% tier 10 battles these days.  definite pay to lose.  

 



reaper_swpz #95 Posted Mar 07 2016 - 17:48

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That's funny, doing pretty good in this "piece of garbage".

 

It's a decent tank; what it does need badly is more ammo - 34 shots is just not enough, have lost matches due to running out of ammo as opposed to anything else. However, been getting nothing but trash teams ever since this tank was bought, so the win rate as well as the stats aren't nearly as good as they should be.

 

Any tank is as good as the user can drive it, if you aren't that good to begin with - sorry, you aren't going to do well no matter what tank you're given.


Edited by reaper_swpz, Mar 07 2016 - 17:50.


noupperlobeman #96 Posted Mar 07 2016 - 17:58

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It's probably my favorite non-preferential matchmaker premium (maybe tied with the T34). I like it. It's comfortable, and fits like a glove.

Possibly because I liked the T-44 so much, and actually played the T-44 stock for a bit in a configuration similar to this (with obvious

differences of course).

 

I wont deny the weaknesses, however. Everything you state is absolutely true.



memegene #97 Posted Mar 07 2016 - 18:18

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Yes I agree, such a horrible tank. No one should ever buy one.

Then why do I feel guilty when I wreck face in it? You have to learn when to bully T8s. No matter what there will always be T8s in your match. 



ScrubIord #98 Posted Mar 12 2016 - 21:22

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the people who say this tank is crap, just dont know how to play it.

ArmorStorm #99 Posted Mar 13 2016 - 18:16

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View PostThe_Ghghp, on Feb 18 2015 - 22:17, said:

[EDIT] New data for tank from Tank Inspector released with the 9.6 patch at bottom of post.

 

Let's start my argument off with a link. Also, please read the entire article before negging or replying, should help on you comprehending my point, thanks. Understand that this review is based on the current stats of the tank, I could change my mind if the tank was rebalanced again.

 

http://tank-compare.com/en/compare/t-54-first-prototype/type-59/panther-mit-88-cm-l71#T1=628I519I435I743I197&T2=435I350I298I537I200&T3=547I446I373I658I241

 

As you can see, the T-54 Prototype has the worst top speed and reverse speed of all the 3 medium tanks. 44km forward and 18km backwards, severely limiting your ability to flank.

 

And while many claim the Panther 8.8 is slower than the T-54 Prototype, you could be true, but there is a massive difference in soft stats.

The Panther 8.8 has an unarguably great terrain resistance. Looking at tank-compare, it is 0.6/0.9/1.5. Now let's look at the T-54 Prototype. It is 1.1/1.2/1.9. That is horrid, severely limiting it's actual acceleration capacity. So this means that it is surprisingly very slow on flat ground, and the mobility is nowhere near the Type 59 or even Panther 8.8, except when you are climbing hills as the pw/wt ratio IS higher than the Panther 8.8's. But you aren't a hill fighter either, with a rather poor -6 degrees of gun depression - this IS a significant difference from the -7 of the Type 59. Think the difference between the Object 140 and the T-62A when utilizing gun depression.

 

Yes, the armor values look simply awesome on paper, and when you think of the T-54's good sloping, it's amazing for tier 8. However let's look at the actual data for any parts you may have missed from the statistics given on paper.

 

Another link: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/12/30/t-54-prototype-historical-data/

 

When reading through the wall of text, you can see the entire roof armor of the turret is only 15mm. This means for abysmal protection from arty when combined with its mediocre speed, and also means that any tank on slightly taller ground, or any tank that is slightly taller than the T-54 prototype, will easily penetrate it every time at ANY angle over there as long as its caliber is 75mm or higher due to overmatching mechanics - calibers lower than that are VERY rarely seen for its tier level. Combined with the T-54 prototype's lower profile and the fact that it is simply configured for brawling in close quarters, any competent player knowing this fact can easily damage and defeat it. Also, when reading the slopes of the lower plate, it is significantly less than the T-54. The upper plate is almost the same as the T-54, but the lower plate is a great deal less sloped. It is only at 45 degrees, while the T-54's lower plate is approximately at 62 degrees. This cuts down its effective armor from nearly 230mm to a measly 157mm. Next, the gun mantlet is 180mm but unsloped, and if it follows the T-44's armor setup pattern (which it should, as it is based on the T-44), nothing will be behind it, so the effective turret armor is really only a bit over 180mm in it's hardest point. So, overall, the T-54 Prototype's armor is a great margin worse than advertised, and the fact that it will quite oftenly face tier 10 tanks, as it lacks preferential MM, makes the situation even worse.

 

Finally, let's look at the arnament. It has 250 alpha damage, which is average for a medium. However, it only has 175mm of penetration. This, combined with the fact its rather low mobility means it simply will struggle to penetrate many of the targets it faces. The APCR round is decent at 235 penetration, but no one wants to be firing gold if they can avoid it, especially in a premium tank that is supposed to be earning credits. The aim time is somewhat slow at 2.6 seconds, the accuracy ok at 0.38, and then we run into another problem. The ROF is only 7.41, which is slow for its alpha damage, putting out a DPM of a mere 1852.5 damage base, and the gun doesn't have the accuracy, gun handling, gun depression, penetration, or alpha damage to make up for it. In short, the gun is definitely a sore point for the tank. It won't help much against many of the tanks it faces, it's not like it can flank well to make up for its pen, AND even then the damage output is insufficient.

 

Miscellaneous: The traverse speed is fairly decent at 42 degrees, but it is limited in reality due to poor terrain resistance. The view range is the worst of all tier 8 mediums, at 360 meters of view range. 40 degrees of turret traverse is decent. The price is very high, in fact the highest for a tier 8 medium as of now, at 11,600 gold according to Tank Inspector. This is more expensive than even the T-34-3. The crew luckily fits the russian medium line tanks from tier 7 to 10 (all crew members except radio operator). The HP pool is another low at 1300 HP.

 

TL;DR and summary: The T-54 Prototype may seem quite good at a first glance, but after closer inspection you will see that it is quite mediocre in many, many aspects, and the lack of pref MM is the final straw into making an expensive, overrated, and overall poor new tier 8 premium medium. If I had something good to say about this tank (other than armor), I would say that it is very well balanced and is far from the initially OP monster that was the Type 59, WG learned from that at least. But if you're tired of running the Matilda IV when training your crews, and have lots of money to spend for your absolute favorite tank line instead of a better premium, go ahead and get it. I know I'm not going to fall in WG's hype/money scheme trap, I'm going to wait until they rebalance it again or ever will.

 

FCM 50T it is then for my next premium! Now I know THAT thing has been proven many times to be a real awesome tank. Seriously, I beg you guys to take a second look before buying the T-54 Prototype. It's far worse than its high public reputation.

 

[EDIT]

The T-54 Prototype model and data has come on in Tank Inspector, and it's just as bad as I imagined.

 

As you can see:

That roof armor. Totally not a weakspot able to be penetrated through by any tank it meets (45mm gun or higher caliber).

 

Unsloped turret cheeks, think T110E4.

 

Dat gun mantlet though. Basically flat with a massive zero-armor hole behind it.

 

"Lower plate is not a weak point." If you call a lower plate like Jagdtiger 8.8's "not a weak point".

 

 

And finally, here are the soft stats. Let's see about this acclaimed "amazing Russian gun handling". There's a reason why you see so many red arrows.

Incredibly weak module HP (especially dat ammo rack), 34 ammo capacity, 175mm penetration, terrible terrain resistance, no preferential MM, higher price than an IS-6, and terribad gun handling. Just doesn't look like a tank worth buying, even if they lower the price. Even the STA-2 and Panther 8.8 simply can't compare to this tank's level of awfulness, inflexibility, underperforming stats in practically every aspect. Since WG already modeled all the T-54 Prototype's stats, it is unlikely that they will change it to a large extent again, especially since they already have rebalanced once in the Supertest. Even with a few buffs, this tank will still be quite atrocious. Think a Super Pershing that meets tier 10s on a regular basis. 

[EDIT] Hey, here comes all those forum threads about their "favorite tank" and how they felt the tank was "awesome". Notice how nobody with more than 50 battles has made the same claim...

When you see a tier 9 medium or heavy, or a tier 8 td, you're basically absolutely screwed. The only way you can play this tank is to have your fingers crossed for amazing mm every single time you click the battle button..

 

All of this comes down to preference.  Some tanks just work for some people.  I have both tanks.  FCM: 52% WR, T-54 mod1: 52% WR, I do better in EVERY catagory in the mod.1 than I do in the FCM, but if you go to VBAddict you will see that the FCM is slightly higher rated in just about everything than the mod1, by a small margin.  Enjoy the FCM, I prefer the mod1 and I encourage others to purchase it, its a fun tank.




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