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Why does the panzer 4 have such terrible armor ?


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Candymancan #1 Posted Jun 10 2011 - 03:04

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The panzer 4 has less armor in the rear and sides then a panzer 3... why

NinjaFisT #2 Posted Jun 10 2011 - 03:07

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But do you have the schmaltraum (I think I spelled it right) on it? That thing bounces SOOO much, like even a 107 shot. Plus it has much armor as the M4 and yet that's still a good tank.

Basically, it doesn't take armor to make the tank, it takes the skill of the tanker.

Candymancan #3 Posted Jun 10 2011 - 03:12

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yea ok thats bullshit, its a upgraded tank the panzer 4 had more armor then a 3 yet only its turret does in this game.. the rear has like 20mm lol and the side has 30

Highlighter #4 Posted Jun 10 2011 - 03:16

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I find that the PkIV's lack of armor isn't such a big deal, especially once you start using the long, sniping cannon.  I typically sit at extreme ranges where the only real danger to me are big heavies and artillery.  

/shrug  That's just my play style in this game: to sit back and snipe.  (In other games, I usually play the fast scout that hits and runs, but that just doesn't work in WoT.)

Tupinambis #5 Posted Jun 10 2011 - 03:19

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Isn't the Panzer IV's frontal armor better than the KV's?

Candymancan #6 Posted Jun 10 2011 - 03:25

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View PostTupinambis, on Jun 10 2011 - 03:19, said:

Isn't the Panzer IV's frontal armor better than the KV's?


Are you kidding the KV has something like 75-75-75, the panzer 4 is 80-30-20... lol...  The turrent armor is higher if your upgrade tho.  But who the hell shoots a turret in this game

Nichts #7 Posted Jun 10 2011 - 16:31

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Got a steel wall on the Pz4. Can't be that bad. ;)

You just gotta learn to use angles.

MrTankFan #8 Posted Jun 10 2011 - 16:43

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Most German tanks are like this: all the armour up front, with very little in the sides or rear. And yes, the 80mm of frontal armour often isn't very useful, but neither is the KV's 75mm of sloped frontal armour. All I can say is that it takes some getting used to. If you find that you simply have having weak side and rear armour, play Russian tanks. Their armour is often more balanced around all sides of the tank, although you may notice the front armour is not as resilient as a contemporary German tank on many models (T-44/54 being the most notable exceptions).

Nimnthor #9 Posted Jun 10 2011 - 17:03

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View PostCandymancan, on Jun 10 2011 - 03:25, said:

Are you kidding the KV has something like 75-75-75, the panzer 4 is 80-30-20... lol...  

He said frontal armor, and 80 is greater than 75. (although really factoring in slope the KV front hull is better) . In any case, the Pz4 didn't really have particularly good armor historically, especially not the sides and rear.

View PostCandymancan, on Jun 10 2011 - 03:25, said:

The turrent armor is higher if your upgrade tho.  But who the hell shoots a turret in this game

Wow, quote of the day, enjoy never being able to kill a KV-3 or IS because you're shooting the sloped hull instead of the vulnerable turret. Or even a KV where the box turret is easier to pen than the sloped hull.

Lumina #10 Posted Jun 11 2011 - 03:31

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1.  The Panzer IV was an infantry Support vehicle in it's design stage, using a 7.5cm howizter, it was given most of it's armor in the front to take frontal hits while infantry helped protect it's flanks.  Where as the Panzer III was originally the fast break through the lines tank, it is better armored on all sides on average, faster, and was designed with a 3.7cm later a 5cm anti tank gun.  

2. The Panzer IV is a box tank, almost no slopped armor meaning even though it's front armor is thicker than a KVs it actually gives far less protection than a KV.  

So in short, the PzIV was never really ment to have good armor, most causes the Panzer IV died just as easily as a Sherman in a shoot out.  Panzer IVs though equipped with better radio communication, optics, and at some points in the war better crews and gun compared to it's rivals.  Who ever could get the first hit wins in short.  The 7.5cm L48 was able to knock out a Sherman for example well beyond the effective range a standard M4 Sherman could reply for example, so the Panzer IV did not really need extra armor, it could not handle better armor anyways.  Panzer IV models like some Ausf H's were given armored skirts to protect from heat rounds, primarly to protect against infantry anti armor weapons.  Ironically US Army forces have done similar steps to protect vehicles in Iraq/Afghanistan vs RPGs.

Shackram #11 Posted Jun 11 2011 - 04:39

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Blame the german engineers that designed the PzIV like this. Earlier versions had only 50mm of frontal hull thickness and was later up-armored to 80mm.

donner_and_blitzen #12 Posted Jun 11 2011 - 04:47

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On a similar note, the StuG variant in game also had it's front armour increased to 80mm from 50mm.

SgtHoss #13 Posted Jun 11 2011 - 06:56

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I will make this simple. The panther stinks. The vk3002 is a lot better. I cant beleive I went through all this to get my panther and it is junk. The tin foil armor could not stop a bug bite

INKRO #14 Posted Jun 11 2011 - 08:17

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Welcome to 1930s tank design!

The Schmalturm helps a lot really, that thing's a big chunk of armor at tier 5.

Kazunemaru #15 Posted Jun 11 2011 - 08:47

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To add to what Lumina has already stated, both the Panzer III and IV were created at the same time (~1937), thus the seperation between roles (III: tank vs. tank, IV: infantry support).  Ultimately the point here is that in reality the Panzer IV was not an upgrade of the Panzer III.

Cavadus #16 Posted Jun 11 2011 - 11:19

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PzIV has paper thin armor on the sides and rear, yeah.  With schmalturm on there and the 75mm L/70 it can be a great sniper if you can get a good hull down position but like the OP I just wasn't satisfied with my PzIV at any point.

I had already gone up to the Pz38NA and had about half of the points I needed to pick up the PzIII/IV.  Finished that grind and elited the PzIII/IV right away.

OP, get a PzIII/IV.  It has 60mm armor on the front and sides and more importantly it's hella sloped so it bounces like mad.  It's also much faster and more maneuverable than the PzIV.  The 75mm L/48 isn't a bad gun either.  

Pick up the PzIII/IV or power through the PzIV to the VK3601.  Both tanks are among the best the Germans have to offer.

Shackram #17 Posted Jun 11 2011 - 18:57

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Put on the Dart Vader helmet, slap the 75mm L/70 on it and you have the best sniper at tier 5.

Unless it's on a tier 5 match, you are a support tank. Stay a bit back behind your advancing tanks, or find a position where you can cover their push from and cover them with your accurate firepower. Unless you found a position where you can go hull down, pretend that you have no armor.

It can be used aggressively on the front-lines and it can be effective, but it's not as easy.

@Cavadus:

Have you tried the VK3001(H)? If you like the PzIII/IV you'll likely enjoy it. Less armor(no slopes), great speed and maneuverability, but you get a strong turret and the short 88mm.

Geandily #18 Posted Jun 11 2011 - 20:01

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Panzer IVs are generally the most effective Tier5 medium in every game I see, especially when they are not the top tier tank.  It's all about sitting back and playing support with your big, accurate gun.  If you don't like the PZIV you should stop using German tanks and switch to the USSR because its not going to get any better in the armor department until the Maus.

Viper69 #19 Posted Jun 12 2011 - 08:18

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I think the design doctrine of early German tanks was speed and mobility. Provide good frontal protection but sacrifice on sides and rear. Similar to Roman or Greek armor. Their doctrine was "Why armor the rear of a soldier, he should be facing the enemy, not running from him." The same holds true for German tanks, they moved in formations that covered each others flanks. The PZ4 was an earlier tank and as stated in a previous post was an armored fighting vehicle made to move swiftly and cover infantry assaults with its howitzer.