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Is the Tiger 2 good for anything?


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lolspin #1 Posted Mar 24 2015 - 11:25

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Coming from the T7 Tiger 1, the Tiger 2 just seems like absolute garbage.  Its decent hull armor is negated by the fact that its turret front sits at about 200mm of armor (easiest T8 heavy for me to fight hull down in my Tiger 1), its gun lacks the DPM for its tier that the Tiger 1 had which eliminates much of its ability to dogfight, its gun lacks the alpha to trade shots with tanks like the IS-3 and the T34, its gun lacks the penetration for its tier to damage anything it faces by aiming properly like the Tiger 1 did, it lacks the mobility for its tier to flank or peek-a-boo distracted enemies like the Tiger 1 could, and with only 100 more HP than its T7 counterpart, its HP pool is mediocre at best even when facing tanks of its own tier.

 

Aside from sitting back and taking opportunistic shots at unsuspecting enemies' weak spots, I can't see any way to effectively play this tank.  The Tiger 1 seems like a much better tank for its tier with its only disadvantage being its horrendous hull armor and that it can't mount vertical stabilizers.  Yet somehow I see the Tiger 1 receiving much more hate than the Tiger 2 for some reason despite the fact that you really can't influence the game at all in a Tiger 2 any more than you could in a Tiger 1.  I just don't see what the Tiger 2 is good for aside from sidescraping around lower tiers who have less than 200mm of pen.



TlGERACE #2 Posted Mar 24 2015 - 11:31

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If you don't like the KT just simply move on cuz there are many tankers that love the KT for its accurate gun

Edited by TlGERACE, Mar 24 2015 - 11:37.


Railsplitter84 #3 Posted Mar 24 2015 - 11:41

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Sounds like you are playing stock? With top turret and top gun I actually came very close to completing HT-15 for the stug. Ultimately had to get the E-75 but i had several 7,500 combined damage games. Usually i can deal just over 2k damage, and block between 2-3k damage with it. (And i rarely play heavies/am a terrible heavy player!) Sidescrape, sidescrape, sidescrape, and turn your turret slightly off target when reloading. Your top gun has awesome pen, and top turret is pretty bouncy. Just grind out them modules!!!

kilroy26 #4 Posted Mar 24 2015 - 12:45

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The Tiger 2 is not a bad tank it actually has fairly decent armor and it's gun is pretty good....do you know how to sidescrape?



ChumCreature #5 Posted Mar 24 2015 - 12:52

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KT is a beast, you just need to know how to use it.

MexicanPanda #6 Posted Mar 24 2015 - 13:00

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It looks really sexy.... that's about it....

 

The gun is accurate and has nice pen, but the armor is disappointing. Shots that should bounce when sidescraping don't and the lower plate is buttah. This all combines to make the tank a great sniper, but heavy tanks shouldn't specialize is sniping.



Rattler_27 #7 Posted Mar 24 2015 - 13:10

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If you are speaking of the stock king tiger then yes its prob a bit bad. On the other hand if it fully upgraded then you can hold its own against tier 9s and some tier 10s. If you are struggling with the TK then perhaps you should either spend a lot of time playing and getting to know it or stop the line cause the next two play very similar.

Greatwhitehunter69 #8 Posted Mar 24 2015 - 13:16

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The KT is only really good at a couple of things.  It has decent depression, and can go hull-down fairly well and it can also side-scrape well at top tier.  If you waggle well, you can garner your fair share of bounces.

However, against tier 10's, you are more useless than tit$ on a bull.  IF you manage to block any shots that come your way, it will only be RNGeszus blessing you.

I have found that out of all of the tier 8 heavies, this in was the most difficult grind, and is very over-matched vs tier 10's.



WanderingGhost #9 Posted Mar 24 2015 - 13:19

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I can see the gun being an issue if you switched to the t8 105. That gun isn't worth it. Stock you have the exact same gun as the tiger 1 with the exact same stats, only time I had an issue was with the tier 10 tanks with heavy armour and good players. And the t9 105 you eventually get while I prefer a bit more RoF punches through most anything with stock AP as long as you aim at points that you generally should aim at anyway or toss HE in their face if it's something you can't get a clean shot at. Only issue I have with armour is that I'm admitedly bad at side scraping 90%of the time (the one exception was being a couple hundred short on damage, blocked and taken in my BP for HT-15 which I didn't have unlocked yet) and the thing seems to attract gold rounds like every other t8 heavy or I'm just the only guy at that tier that doesn't sling them. Otherwise on tier and lower, I can crush things, bottom tier, not as easy but unless RNG really hates me that day/match I can still at the least get 2k after bounces and no pens.

Sethanas #10 Posted Mar 24 2015 - 13:20

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2300 games, its not the tank, you just aren't at a point where your grasp of the game can make the tank work for you.

Tiger I is frankly OP for its tier, that DPM and overall gun stats are miles ahead of most other 7s, and it has the HP to get by even when you don't know how to work the armor. Tiger II on the other hand is at a much more competitive tier, not only are there plenty of great 8s, but it also has to contend with the tier 10s so the player's grasp of game mechanics and the tank's play style are even more important.

Shrike58 #11 Posted Mar 24 2015 - 13:22

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I rather liked it but it's been so long since I've played it I should probably keep my mouth shut.

Zythalin #12 Posted Mar 24 2015 - 13:28

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View PostWolf_Sniper_27, on Mar 24 2015 - 13:10, said:

Stop the line cause the next two play very similar.

 

Absolutely not.

 

Tiger II is reliable gun and armor against weaker guns.

 

E75 and E100 forgo accuracy in exchange for alpha and excellent armor.

 

Tiger II is the logical transition from lightly-armoured Tiger I to hard-as-rock E75.

 

It performs decently and has some fans. It's a good tank to learn on.


Edited by Zythalin, Mar 24 2015 - 13:29.


redsox101 #13 Posted Mar 24 2015 - 13:38

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Was ist loss mit dir?

Hast Du Probleme?

wth? over-


Edited by redsox101, Mar 24 2015 - 13:38.


Greatwhitehunter69 #14 Posted Mar 24 2015 - 13:43

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View Postredsox101, on Mar 24 2015 - 12:38, said:

Was ist loss mit dir?

Hast Du Probleme?

wth? over-

 

Du!  Du hast!  

Du hast mich!



HereticVoid #15 Posted Mar 24 2015 - 16:38

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View Postlolspin, on Mar 24 2015 - 11:25, said:

Coming from the T7 Tiger 1, the Tiger 2 just seems like absolute garbage.  Its decent hull armor is negated by the fact that its turret front sits at about 200mm of armor (easiest T8 heavy for me to fight hull down in my Tiger 1), its gun lacks the DPM for its tier that the Tiger 1 had which eliminates much of its ability to dogfight, its gun lacks the alpha to trade shots with tanks like the IS-3 and the T34, its gun lacks the penetration for its tier to damage anything it faces by aiming properly like the Tiger 1 did, it lacks the mobility for its tier to flank or peek-a-boo distracted enemies like the Tiger 1 could, and with only 100 more HP than its T7 counterpart, its HP pool is mediocre at best even when facing tanks of its own tier.

 

Aside from sitting back and taking opportunistic shots at unsuspecting enemies' weak spots, I can't see any way to effectively play this tank.  The Tiger 1 seems like a much better tank for its tier with its only disadvantage being its horrendous hull armor and that it can't mount vertical stabilizers.  Yet somehow I see the Tiger 1 receiving much more hate than the Tiger 2 for some reason despite the fact that you really can't influence the game at all in a Tiger 2 any more than you could in a Tiger 1.  I just don't see what the Tiger 2 is good for aside from sidescraping around lower tiers who have less than 200mm of pen.

 

1:Are you fully upgraded or are you stock?

2:What are your crew skills at?

3: How do you generally play it?

4: Do you know the KT's weak spots and how to negate/compensate for them?

 

The KT aint the best but by no means is it the worst. It's considerably middle of the road and is harder to use well then the other heavies but for that it is more flexible in terms of the roles it can fulfill. Most other heavy's have their area of specialty while the tiger seems to have none.



SMBakerESQ #16 Posted Mar 24 2015 - 21:54

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Its good for about 1500 dmg per game and a %59 win rate and I am terrible. Rammer, stabs, vents you can shoot accurately on move or with turret movement and just send shells downrange. If your not shooting on reload you are doing it wrong.

SMBakerESQ #17 Posted Mar 24 2015 - 22:01

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Also carry half APCR to rape face in Tier 10.

rover5700heirloom #18 Posted Mar 25 2015 - 00:13

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I hardly ever shoot APCR from it, seem to bounce about twice as often when I do. Its not that much better than the Tiger I except for some sloped armor and a better gun, but your zeeing a lot tougher tanks when your in tier 8. I agree as a lot of people say it does nothing reallygreat, but it still is nothing to ignore. If your dont like the Tiger II then you might as well forget about the E75 because it gains a little better armor and gun but looses accuracy which is what the Tiger II is all about. 

 

German Hvy line needs a real premium tank for training, not the PzB2 because I dont need two radio operators, and not the Lowe because it takes 10 minutes to get to the other cap even when no one is shooting at it. ( Lowe does have great armor and few week spots tho)

 

I dont think most people play German Hvys because theyre great tanks anyway, theyre either naturally good at any tank they drive or theyre die hard fans of evil Nazi tanks...

 

Bur Seriusly, you got a Tiger II, stop whinnig, there are starving kids in South America that will never even get to play a PzKfw IVH.



lolspin #19 Posted Mar 25 2015 - 09:59

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@tigerace: The Tiger 2 does have an accurate gun yes.  But so does the Tiger 1.  The only difference is that the Tiger 2 goes up against things like IS-7s and E-100s with such tiny weak spots that the only way you'll be able to hit their frontal weak spots is if the RNG gods smile upon you and decide to land your shell right on the little circular indent or horizontal bar respectively.

 

@railsplitter: Nope fully upgraded.  Only thing keeping me from elite is e75 research.  I was hoping it would be like the Tiger 1 where the stock gun is absolute garbage and has a massive power spike once you reach the top gun.  No such thing ever happened and I find myself useless to my team much more often now due to the lack of penetration to hit hard targets and lack of mobility to flank them.

 

@killroy: Yes I sidescrape all the time.  I can bounce a lot of shells from people who don't know what they're doing but any competent player will just shoot me right in the front of the turret due to it having only 200mm of armor.  It doesn't matter how much you hide your lower plate, that turret armor is just a joke and unlike other tanks later on down the line, the side turret armor is so bad that even attempting to angle the turret will get you completely wrecked.

 

@wolf_sniper: I'm not saying it can't go up against its own tier and some tanks a few tiers above it.  What I'm saying is that the Tiger 1 could go up against literally anything it faced and still do damage if you know how to aim.  The only tank I've had trouble with is the T95 which is the only tank I have EVER fired gold at in the Tiger 1.  The Tiger 2 on the other hand I feel like I should just give up when I'm the last one standing in my area against anything with EA of over 230.  Also I highly doubt the E75 will be as disappointing.  The biggest letdowns of the Tiger 2 are the lack of armor and lack of alpha damage.  The E75 has armor and the E100 has both armor and alpha.  Playing through the German heavy line, I'm used to slow tanks with terrible turret traverse.  What I'm not used to is being completely unable to penetrate an enemy tank from the front.  I could do it in the VK 36.01 and the Tiger 1.  Not the Tiger 2.

 

@greatwhite: I have very little problem when I'm top tier.  Sidescraping bounces pretty much anything and hull down becomes a viable strategy against sub 200 pen guns.  As soon as you hit T9 though, both of those tactics are nearly useless.  The only time I can take advantage of sidescraping is while the person I'm aiming at is distracted and most hull down positions are useless due to the increased exposure time of the front of the turret from that position.  It just seems that once you start facing tanks with over 200mm of pentration, all you end up being is an "extra gun" that has to hope the enemy isn't looking your direction.

 

@wandering: Didn't even bother with the short 105.  Lower pen?  Nope.  Already have enough problems with STIs with the long 88.

 

@sethanas: Tiger 1 has no armor to work.  Sidescraping is useless since in order to get your gun into position you need to expose the flat front of the tank anyway.  Hull down is a viable strategy but T29 can do that much better.  And yes the gun on the Tiger 1 is really amazing.  Like I said, I can pen anything I see with standard ammo save T95s from the front and with the accuracy on the gun, not even hull down T29s are impossible to damage.  That's why it feels to me that the Tiger 2 is a pretty big downgrade considering its armor isn't that much better in comparison for its tier and its gun is much much worse than its T7 counterpart.

 

@Zythalin: And that's the biggest reason I'm sticking with this grind.  The only concern I have is the fact that the few weak spots on the front of the E75 are soft enough for literally every T7 to damage (85 EA?  That's just ridiculous) but most tanks don't have the accuracy to hit them consistently anyway.

 

@heretic: Fully upgraded; crew 100% working on first skill (73% to repair, repair, smooth ride, situational awareness, repair); when I'm top tier, front line brawler and when I'm not, sit behind other more heavily armored allies and hope they don't derp because if they do, I'm dead against anything with really good armor; yes I know the Tiger 2's weak spots: cupola (very hard to hit and good chance of ricochet). LFG (easy to hide by using wrecks/sidescraping), but most importantly of all, the front turret mantlet which is impossible to hide without making yourself completely unable to fire.

 

@SMBaker: I run torsion bars (will be replaced when I have the money), vert stab, GLD.  Fire on the move is very good even with smooth ride at 73% but the reason I really got it was because I found the best way for me to play the tank was to wait for the enemy to get distracted, peek out, take a shot, and pull back.  Vert stab and GLD make it so that after hull movement I only have to wait about a second or so to get a dead accurate shot.  Also I run 6 rounds of APCR which I have never used yet.  I don't want to be reliant on gold rounds to do well in a tank especially when the tank is already losing me money.

 

@rover: That "little extra armor" means the difference between bouncing a turret shot from standard ammo on an STI and being penetrated through the turret by a Tiger 1.  I can honestly say that ever since the Tiger 1, the Tiger 2 has been my favorite T8 heavy target to date.  No matter what it does, I can pen it.  I was hoping that was just on account of the drivers being really bad (which it still may be), but it seems the exact same weaknesses that I saw on the Tiger 2 when I fought it can't really be compensated for while playing it.  Crap mobility plus mediocre DPM and horrible turret traverse mean if it gets flanked, it dies.  Soft front turret means hull down and pretty much anything that lets them see your turret will be lethal to you.  Stock Tiger 1 was a horrible grind and by the time I researched the top gun I was sitting on a 38% win rate.  After a few hundred games, I managed to claw my way up to a 50% win rate.  I don't see that happening with the Tiger 2.



Sethanas #20 Posted Mar 25 2015 - 12:46

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View Postlolspin, on Mar 25 2015 - 08:59, said:

@sethanas: Tiger 1 has no armor to work.  Sidescraping is useless since in order to get your gun into position you need to expose the flat front of the tank anyway.  Hull down is a viable strategy but T29 can do that much better.  And yes the gun on the Tiger 1 is really amazing.  Like I said, I can pen anything I see with standard ammo save T95s from the front and with the accuracy on the gun, not even hull down T29s are impossible to damage.  That's why it feels to me that the Tiger 2 is a pretty big downgrade considering its armor isn't that much better in comparison for its tier and its gun is much much worse than its T7 counterpart.

 

I found the tiger I's armor to be quite functional tbh, box tank = great for angling. Also, if you prefer the long 88 there's nothing stopping you from using it on the tiger II, panther II and panther 88 both get that same gun and can deal with 10s well enough though I much preferred the long 10.5 myself.

The armor on the tiger II is quite functional, but like the tiger I it wont just bounce stuff on it's own unless you actively work on keeping your angles right. The tiger II gets so many great perks, you have to pay for it with something.

 

It's a very well rounded tank, that said it doesn't have any particular niche to fill, which is why it isn't favored in most team play (TB, Stongholds, companies) T32 has its gun depression and turret, IS-3 has its alpha and mobility (Also the spaced armor) the 50-100 has ridiculous burst and mobility, KV-4 has stupidly good armor. The british Caernarvon actually suffers from a similar situation as the tiger II, good at most things but not stellar at any 1 or 2 things so it doesn't fit a niche.

 

The universal tanks such as the Tig.II generally make for pretty good pub stompers in the right hands, its all about that play style.
 






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