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Is the Tiger 2 good for anything?


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Vader_Sama #21 Posted Mar 25 2015 - 16:12

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The Tiger II in generally is quite a unique tank in that it can assume multiple roles rather adequately compared to other tanks.

 

This thing has the gun to snipe, has the alpha and pen to do peek a boom, has the hit points and just enough armor to brawl when top tier.

 

 



HereticVoid #22 Posted Mar 25 2015 - 16:57

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View Postlolspin, on Mar 25 2015 - 09:59, said:

@tigerace: The Tiger 2 does have an accurate gun yes.  But so does the Tiger 1.  The only difference is that the Tiger 2 goes up against things like IS-7s and E-100s with such tiny weak spots that the only way you'll be able to hit their frontal weak spots is if the RNG gods smile upon you and decide to land your shell right on the little circular indent or horizontal bar respectively.

 

@railsplitter: Nope fully upgraded.  Only thing keeping me from elite is e75 research.  I was hoping it would be like the Tiger 1 where the stock gun is absolute garbage and has a massive power spike once you reach the top gun.  No such thing ever happened and I find myself useless to my team much more often now due to the lack of penetration to hit hard targets and lack of mobility to flank them.

 

@killroy: Yes I sidescrape all the time.  I can bounce a lot of shells from people who don't know what they're doing but any competent player will just shoot me right in the front of the turret due to it having only 200mm of armor.  It doesn't matter how much you hide your lower plate, that turret armor is just a joke and unlike other tanks later on down the line, the side turret armor is so bad that even attempting to angle the turret will get you completely wrecked.

 

@wolf_sniper: I'm not saying it can't go up against its own tier and some tanks a few tiers above it.  What I'm saying is that the Tiger 1 could go up against literally anything it faced and still do damage if you know how to aim.  The only tank I've had trouble with is the T95 which is the only tank I have EVER fired gold at in the Tiger 1.  The Tiger 2 on the other hand I feel like I should just give up when I'm the last one standing in my area against anything with EA of over 230.  Also I highly doubt the E75 will be as disappointing.  The biggest letdowns of the Tiger 2 are the lack of armor and lack of alpha damage.  The E75 has armor and the E100 has both armor and alpha.  Playing through the German heavy line, I'm used to slow tanks with terrible turret traverse.  What I'm not used to is being completely unable to penetrate an enemy tank from the front.  I could do it in the VK 36.01 and the Tiger 1.  Not the Tiger 2.

 

@greatwhite: I have very little problem when I'm top tier.  Sidescraping bounces pretty much anything and hull down becomes a viable strategy against sub 200 pen guns.  As soon as you hit T9 though, both of those tactics are nearly useless.  The only time I can take advantage of sidescraping is while the person I'm aiming at is distracted and most hull down positions are useless due to the increased exposure time of the front of the turret from that position.  It just seems that once you start facing tanks with over 200mm of pentration, all you end up being is an "extra gun" that has to hope the enemy isn't looking your direction.

 

@wandering: Didn't even bother with the short 105.  Lower pen?  Nope.  Already have enough problems with STIs with the long 88.

 

@sethanas: Tiger 1 has no armor to work.  Sidescraping is useless since in order to get your gun into position you need to expose the flat front of the tank anyway.  Hull down is a viable strategy but T29 can do that much better.  And yes the gun on the Tiger 1 is really amazing.  Like I said, I can pen anything I see with standard ammo save T95s from the front and with the accuracy on the gun, not even hull down T29s are impossible to damage.  That's why it feels to me that the Tiger 2 is a pretty big downgrade considering its armor isn't that much better in comparison for its tier and its gun is much much worse than its T7 counterpart.

 

@Zythalin: And that's the biggest reason I'm sticking with this grind.  The only concern I have is the fact that the few weak spots on the front of the E75 are soft enough for literally every T7 to damage (85 EA?  That's just ridiculous) but most tanks don't have the accuracy to hit them consistently anyway.

 

@heretic: Fully upgraded; crew 100% working on first skill (73% to repair, repair, smooth ride, situational awareness, repair); when I'm top tier, front line brawler and when I'm not, sit behind other more heavily armored allies and hope they don't derp because if they do, I'm dead against anything with really good armor; yes I know the Tiger 2's weak spots: cupola (very hard to hit and good chance of ricochet). LFG (easy to hide by using wrecks/sidescraping), but most importantly of all, the front turret mantlet which is impossible to hide without making yourself completely unable to fire.

 

@SMBaker: I run torsion bars (will be replaced when I have the money), vert stab, GLD.  Fire on the move is very good even with smooth ride at 73% but the reason I really got it was because I found the best way for me to play the tank was to wait for the enemy to get distracted, peek out, take a shot, and pull back.  Vert stab and GLD make it so that after hull movement I only have to wait about a second or so to get a dead accurate shot.  Also I run 6 rounds of APCR which I have never used yet.  I don't want to be reliant on gold rounds to do well in a tank especially when the tank is already losing me money.

 

@rover: That "little extra armor" means the difference between bouncing a turret shot from standard ammo on an STI and being penetrated through the turret by a Tiger 1.  I can honestly say that ever since the Tiger 1, the Tiger 2 has been my favorite T8 heavy target to date.  No matter what it does, I can pen it.  I was hoping that was just on account of the drivers being really bad (which it still may be), but it seems the exact same weaknesses that I saw on the Tiger 2 when I fought it can't really be compensated for while playing it.  Crap mobility plus mediocre DPM and horrible turret traverse mean if it gets flanked, it dies.  Soft front turret means hull down and pretty much anything that lets them see your turret will be lethal to you.  Stock Tiger 1 was a horrible grind and by the time I researched the top gun I was sitting on a 38% win rate.  After a few hundred games, I managed to claw my way up to a 50% win rate.  I don't see that happening with the Tiger 2.

 

1:The mantle can be angled so that it is your gun that gets hit or that the enemy shots can be bounced.  When side scraping you should never have your turret be still even when aiming for a shot you can generally move your hull and wiggle your turret a little to minimize the danger. Also dont even try to angle the side of your turret man. Keep your turret frontal or semi frontal but never try to angle the side. Also time your shots to be during the enemy's reload. Make the enemy be impatient and make it look like your about to face your turret flat to them only to trick them and make them miss/bounce or be absorbed by the gun.

2: The 225 ap and 285 perm rounds are more then enough if you know weak spots. The is7 and E100 have giant weak spots that are easy to hit and pen with a KT most of the time. Only good players and  above know how to minimize this and even then you still have a good chance to hit them,

3: The kt is decent alpha and ok dmp. It's doesn't need alpha it needs range. You only need alpha if you are trading shots and against t8 the dpm should win half the time. Against higher teirs you need range, also against those higher tiers your not heavy support any more your whatever you need to be to help the team. In a platoon of t8 against t10 i either go be heavy support or become a semi medium sniper that explores flanks, defends against the enemy med's or snipes at exposed targets. I think the problem your having is that you are fixed on making the KT into either a brawler at high tiers or a close ranged support heavy at low and mid teirs. You know when to take advantage of distracted enemies but you still limit your roles.

4: I would recomend a bloody rammer ASAP. Hell even destory the torsion bar and put that rammer, The first thing to install in most(if not every) tank is a rammer man. With vent's, rammer and BIA i have 13 sec reload but without those i can 16-19 sec reload. Thats giving the enemy 3-6 extra seconds to kick you in the [edited].

5: While the repairs are ok the smooth ride is a waste. You are better off with off-road driving or clutch braking to help in the mobility department.

6: The mobility is decent believe it or not and it can be furthered enhanced with clutch braking and off road driving. As for turret traverse when flanked move with your hull to help compensate ( its surprising how many people dont do this considering its so easy)

 

Other then these reply's a replay of an average or bad game would help us see what your doing right or wrong.



rover5700heirloom #23 Posted Mar 25 2015 - 20:11

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The olny problem with the Tiger I &II is they see tanks that they would have never seen in battle, but we all see that happen. Germany claims the Tiger II never had its front armor penned in battle by anyone, dont know if thats true but the preferred way to ingage a tiger was from the flank or rear. The Tiger II had a target range of 2.5 times any map In WoT. 

 

The first turret for the Tiger II is horrible and you need the top gun because your always going to see a tier higher in the tiger series. After grinding the Tiger I and finally getting the Tiger II I never left the garage till it was fully researched, it was dissapointing, I did the same with thr E75 as everyone said the E75 will make up for the Tiger II's lack of doing anything really well. 

 

After playing the tiger II and E75 a bit I can say that I deffently like the Tiger I a lot better now though. Somethime I think you have to go past a tier to appreciate what you can do with a tank. The days of engine fires in tigers are over, the number one reason I die in a tiger is I get in the wrong place, get tracked and torn to shreads by multiple heavys. 

 

I think if you can play the tigers well ( which I dont really) you can do about anything in this game. But I have never seen a tank in WoT's that can just drive around immune from any damage. Because that wouldnt be fair...



lolspin #24 Posted Mar 25 2015 - 23:38

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View PostSethanas, on Mar 25 2015 - 11:46, said:

 

I found the tiger I's armor to be quite functional tbh, box tank = great for angling. Also, if you prefer the long 88 there's nothing stopping you from using it on the tiger II, panther II and panther 88 both get that same gun and can deal with 10s well enough though I much preferred the long 10.5 myself.

The armor on the tiger II is quite functional, but like the tiger I it wont just bounce stuff on it's own unless you actively work on keeping your angles right. The tiger II gets so many great perks, you have to pay for it with something.

 

It's a very well rounded tank, that said it doesn't have any particular niche to fill, which is why it isn't favored in most team play (TB, Stongholds, companies) T32 has its gun depression and turret, IS-3 has its alpha and mobility (Also the spaced armor) the 50-100 has ridiculous burst and mobility, KV-4 has stupidly good armor. The british Caernarvon actually suffers from a similar situation as the tiger II, good at most things but not stellar at any 1 or 2 things so it doesn't fit a niche.

 

The universal tanks such as the Tig.II generally make for pretty good pub stompers in the right hands, its all about that play style.
 

 

You're going to have to give me an example of this "functional armor" on the Tiger 1.  I can consistently pen a Tiger 1 at any range that is not far enough to make the Russian gun completely miss what I'm aiming at.  If the Tiger angles over 30 degrees, shoot him right above the sprocket wheel: 90mm EA.  If he angles 30 or less, upper hull is around 110mm EA.  Hull down is the only time the Tiger 1's armor can be effective against anything but even then the mantlet is only about 150mm of armor making it pennable by most T7s not to mention 8s and 9s.  And the long 88 is effective against everything up until T9.  Once you hit T10, a very large number of tanks become completely immune to the long 88 without gold.  Also I disagree with the sentiment that the KV-4 has really good armor.  It suffers from the same issue that the Tiger 2 has in that it has very soft spots on its turret, the softest being only 125mm thick.  As long as you have a semi-accurate gun, that turret armor is useless.

 

@heretic:

 

1: So are you saying to angle or not to angle the turret?  Past around 7 degrees of angling, the side turret armor loses its autobounce and gets even less EA than the front mantlet.  Angling your turret at less than that gives you a total of 5mm of extra EA.

 

2: I'm not looking to fire premium at every IS7 I come across.  The IS-7 has a total of two weak spots that can be penned by standard AP: the two flat areas on the top of its turret with about 230mm EA at its softest point.  Aside from that, there's the LFG which is very finicky.

 

3: I've tried that as well but the mobility greatly reduces the ability for me to relocate to take up important positions, not to mention that practically every shot to the LFG damages the engine.  It's just a combination of all these things that the Tiger 2 is "meh" at that seems to make it the worst German heavy (perhaps even worst heavy period) for its tier that I've played.  It seems like a heavy that wants to be a medium but doesn't have the engine power to do it.

 

4: I mounted torsion bars to mount the upgraded turret and top gun ASAP without having to wait for suspension research first.  I'll be replacing it soon once I have the credits.

 

5: As per smooth ride, I feel it may be the Tiger 2's biggest redeeming factor right now.  It has very good accuracy on the move with very good aim time which means after hull movement, you can land extremely [edited]clutch shots against softer enemies.  I will be putting points into clutch braking next to help with hull traverse and snap shot for my gunner to improve my ability to fight when flanked.

 

6. It sure doesn't feel decent.  IS-3s accelerate much faster than I do as do KV-4s.  I haven't done a side by side comparison yet, but I think even the T34 can reposition faster than the Tiger 2 can although I haven't played enough games while paying attention to the T34s on my team to really notice.  Just from the death cam when watching team mates, it seems to be a lot more mobile with the exception of hull traverse.



lolspin #25 Posted Mar 26 2015 - 00:50

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Replays are as follows:

 

Average top tier game: wotreplays.com/site/1739756

Almost every pen straight through the turret front

 

Average T9 game: http://wotreplays.com/site/1739763

Lacks DPM to halt an enemy advance and lacks mobility to reposition when the area is lost

 

Average T10 game: http://wotreplays.com/site/1739768

Just gets walked all over by anything with more than 240 pen.  Doesn't help when the only two tanks holding the flak are T8s.

 

EDIT: As a comparison, first Tiger 1 match of the day: http://wotreplays.com/site/1739824

Not even top tier yet still completely dominating.


Edited by lolspin, Mar 26 2015 - 01:33.


PrinzEugen85 #26 Posted Mar 27 2015 - 22:28

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German heavies, Tiger 2 very much so, are bully tanks. Don't be where the nastiest stuff on the field are, or do so at range and smash everything else. You're not supposed to be in the front lines with this thing, just a very nasty surprise with a very nasty gun. The E75 is what you want as a pure brawler at the front.

panzer1b #27 Posted Mar 28 2015 - 18:32

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I liked boh to some degree.  The tiger II is the 1st german tank that can actually take some hits (and bounce a good portion of shots when used right).  I liked mine, and it was imo the least painful stock grind ive ever had (the long 88 is a viable option even if you elite it, although 105 beats the 88 vs T9-10s with that extra pen).  Still, i can see how some dont like it, given that it cant go brawling head to head against the russian heavies, and is kinda a slug in terms of mobility (no tog, but still kinda crap).

 

The tiger I was also ok, despite the fact that it has no armor whatsoever (any T5 can pen your side, most can also pen front reliably).  Sidescraping and sniping is how you play it though, as 80mm sides are enough to sidescrape in, and the turret face is not half bad (you will get penned, but not every single time).



lolspin #28 Posted Mar 30 2015 - 07:30

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View PostPrinzEugen85, on Mar 27 2015 - 21:28, said:

German heavies, Tiger 2 very much so, are bully tanks. Don't be where the nastiest stuff on the field are, or do so at range and smash everything else. You're not supposed to be in the front lines with this thing, just a very nasty surprise with a very nasty gun. The E75 is what you want as a pure brawler at the front.

 

The thing is that it's not that great at sniping or supporting either.  It just seems that the Tiger 2 has no role it can fulfill effectively.  At least the E75 has an obvious role as a brawler to fill.  The Tiger 1 also had no specialist role, but unlike the Tiger 2 could actually do any of the roles it was put in effectively.  It had the HP pool to be at the front lines as a top tier tank despite the lack of armor, it had the DPM, penetration, and accuracy to snipe if you needed to, it had decent enough mobility to reposition if you get stuck in a bad spot, and its turret armor wasn't as vulnerable due to its lower profile.  I just don't see this tank being good at anything.  Maybe if it had a better camo rating or better mobility it could at least be used as a pseudo-TD or flanker, but as it stands right now I haven't seen a single Tiger 2 on my own team or the enemy's that has ever given me the impression that it's any threat whatsoever outside of being top tier.

 

@panzer1b: I disagree with it being the first German tank that can take hits.  Tiger 1 had only 100 less HP and was a tier lower so never saw any T10 tanks.  The VK36.01H can definitely bounce shots if you use its armor effectively (where I learned how to sidescrape towards the end of my play with it).  And yes the stock grind was very forgiving but the payoff was little improvement over what stock already had.  Upgraded turret means that T6s won't pen your front turret anymore, but most T7s can if they aren't unlucky.  Upgraded tracks give you slightly better mobility over soft terrain but it's still very mediocre.  Upgraded gun gives you extra pen and alpha but lower DPM which means you can't go TD or dogfight mode with the gun after upgrading, yet the alpha is still very poor and can't brawl with the likes of other T8 guns.

 

As per Tiger 1, I rarely sidescrape with it.  Sidescraping is useless against anyone who isn't retarded and has more than 120mm of pen.  Angle more than 30 degrees and skirts above the tracks become a weak spot.  Angle less and the front of the gigantic box of a hull has only around 105mm.  The best method of play that I've found for it is to take advantage of its accuracy to poke around corners to get nice shots in until you're confident you can advance without being focussed by the rest of the enemy team.  Then just dogfight with whoever you're up against as your DPM is way above what most tanks have on you.  Anything that isn't an autoloader will more than likely get completely destroyed by you if you play smart.  T29s are my favorite target and looking back on stats, I have highest number of kills on T29s at 22 followed by T-150s at 14 and fellow Tiger 1s at 13.  I think the problem most people have with the Tiger 1 is not knowing how to abuse its DPM.  The DPM, accuracy, and penetration are what make the tank so amazing and the 1500 HP pool means you can fulfill your heavy tank role even without armor due to sheer bulk.



SirEzioHerzog #29 Posted Mar 31 2015 - 18:51

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View Postlolspin, on Mar 30 2015 - 06:30, said:

 

  Sidescraping is useless against anyone who isn't retarded

I found your problem, friend.



panzer1b #30 Posted Apr 01 2015 - 05:59

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View Postlolspin, on Mar 24 2015 - 10:25, said:

Coming from the T7 Tiger 1, the Tiger 2 just seems like absolute garbage.  Its decent hull armor is negated by the fact that its turret front sits at about 200mm of armor (easiest T8 heavy for me to fight hull down in my Tiger 1), its gun lacks the DPM for its tier that the Tiger 1 had which eliminates much of its ability to dogfight, its gun lacks the alpha to trade shots with tanks like the IS-3 and the T34, its gun lacks the penetration for its tier to damage anything it faces by aiming properly like the Tiger 1 did, it lacks the mobility for its tier to flank or peek-a-boo distracted enemies like the Tiger 1 could, and with only 100 more HP than its T7 counterpart, its HP pool is mediocre at best even when facing tanks of its own tier.

 

Aside from sitting back and taking opportunistic shots at unsuspecting enemies' weak spots, I can't see any way to effectively play this tank.  The Tiger 1 seems like a much better tank for its tier with its only disadvantage being its horrendous hull armor and that it can't mount vertical stabilizers.  Yet somehow I see the Tiger 1 receiving much more hate than the Tiger 2 for some reason despite the fact that you really can't influence the game at all in a Tiger 2 any more than you could in a Tiger 1.  I just don't see what the Tiger 2 is good for aside from sidescraping around lower tiers who have less than 200mm of pen.

 

Its not really a bad heavy, but it does like you experience have plenty of weakspots that an experienced player can take advantage of.  Its shines as a sidescraping tank, but its not as great as some others such as the T29 in this role due to the bad turet face (any 210+ pen gun will reliably pen you to the turret face, although it isnt that easy to actually hit the turret face).  Also, you have a rooftop that gets overmatched by 120mm or higher, allowing even the low-pen IS with its 175 pen 122 to go through the top of your turret reliably.  Then you have your LFP, which can at best bounce 150 pen guns reliably (157 pen guns can be bounced with higher angles, but you risk exposing the sides at that point).  The only very tough spot to pen (for T8 tanks) is the upper plate, something that by now most players know not to shoot at as its generally the toughest spot on any tank.

 

Although ive heard alot of mixed opinions, ive found longer ranges to be better in this tank (as the LFP becomes much harder to hit, as does the turret face, making only some shots do any damage to you.  Sidescraping at ranges in excess of 200m makes you borderline invulnurable HE shells aside, and even T9s will have trouble with a sidescraping tiger II at long ranges.  Close range is useable, but ive found the E75 to be exponentially better at brawling then the tiger II, since the tiger II has more accuracy and DPM, making it more of a sniper heavy, that can brawl if needed. 

 

The only reason i wasnt super crazy about the tigers is that they are best used at long ranges, but other tanks with better mobility or better guns do better or similarly well, without teh disadvantage of garbage mobility (at long ranges the panther or panther II are arguable just as effective).  Also, TDs like the JP2 are also better at longer ranges, with better guns, and way better DPM, making the whole "long-range-heavy" concept redundant and extremely situational, with very few cases being better then either a TD or sniper medium.

 

I will say that recently ive sold my tiger II for a E75, which is way better as a brawler, and can also snipe somewhat in a pinch, not to mention the E75 top tier, is more or less a guarantee to sealclub like nothing else due to its armor being almost immune to T7-8 tanks (TDs aside).



lolspin #31 Posted Apr 01 2015 - 07:01

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View PostSirEzioHerzog, on Mar 31 2015 - 17:51, said:

I found your problem, friend.

 

And what would that problem be?  The Tiger 1 is one of my best performing tanks and I can carry hard in that thing even when my entire team fails.  In fact, many of my best games have been sub-40% win chance due to my entire team derping and not taking away from my potential damage.  Most of the others were bottom tier games where I more than carried my own weight.

 

http://wotreplays.com/site/1757156

http://wotreplays.com/site/1757157

http://wotreplays.com/site/1757161

http://wotreplays.com/site/1757167

http://wotreplays.com/site/1623371

http://wotreplays.com/site/1739824

http://wotreplays.com/site/1653157

 

I only sidescrape once throughout the entirety of those games and even then it wasn't required since the IS-6 wasn't looking in my direction anyway.  I have no gripes with my Tiger 1 gameplay as I do well enough in that tank not to worry about how it's played by the majority.  It works for me so I stick to what I do well with.

 

The Tiger 2 on the other hand just seems like utter garbage.  Yes you now have the armor layout to sidescrape defensively but your turret armor is still less than 200mm thick.  Because of this, your second largest frontal weakspot becomes impossible to hide if you plan on doing any shooting whatsoever.  Can't go hull down, can't peek out of a sidescrape unless enemies are reloading, and loses the power to weight ratio that allowed the Tiger to peekaboo around corners to plant a shot into distracted/reloading enemies.  Aside from being able to bounce T6s consistently, I see absolutely no improvement to the Tiger 2 over the Tiger 1.  Sure it's annoying to get penned by a KV-1 in a Tiger 1 but it's still better than getting a nerf in every other way just to improve the thickness of your frontal hull armor.



lolspin #32 Posted Apr 01 2015 - 07:14

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View Postpanzer1b, on Apr 01 2015 - 04:59, said:

 

Its not really a bad heavy, but it does like you experience have plenty of weakspots that an experienced player can take advantage of.  Its shines as a sidescraping tank, but its not as great as some others such as the T29 in this role due to the bad turet face (any 210+ pen gun will reliably pen you to the turret face, although it isnt that easy to actually hit the turret face).  Also, you have a rooftop that gets overmatched by 120mm or higher, allowing even the low-pen IS with its 175 pen 122 to go through the top of your turret reliably.  Then you have your LFP, which can at best bounce 150 pen guns reliably (157 pen guns can be bounced with higher angles, but you risk exposing the sides at that point).  The only very tough spot to pen (for T8 tanks) is the upper plate, something that by now most players know not to shoot at as its generally the toughest spot on any tank.

 

Although ive heard alot of mixed opinions, ive found longer ranges to be better in this tank (as the LFP becomes much harder to hit, as does the turret face, making only some shots do any damage to you.  Sidescraping at ranges in excess of 200m makes you borderline invulnurable HE shells aside, and even T9s will have trouble with a sidescraping tiger II at long ranges.  Close range is useable, but ive found the E75 to be exponentially better at brawling then the tiger II, since the tiger II has more accuracy and DPM, making it more of a sniper heavy, that can brawl if needed. 

 

The only reason i wasnt super crazy about the tigers is that they are best used at long ranges, but other tanks with better mobility or better guns do better or similarly well, without teh disadvantage of garbage mobility (at long ranges the panther or panther II are arguable just as effective).  Also, TDs like the JP2 are also better at longer ranges, with better guns, and way better DPM, making the whole "long-range-heavy" concept redundant and extremely situational, with very few cases being better then either a TD or sniper medium.

 

I will say that recently ive sold my tiger II for a E75, which is way better as a brawler, and can also snipe somewhat in a pinch, not to mention the E75 top tier, is more or less a guarantee to sealclub like nothing else due to its armor being almost immune to T7-8 tanks (TDs aside).

 

So basically the Tiger 2 is a tank that uses its armor only to bounce unlucky shots aimed at its turret?  That's a bit depressing but I suppose it makes sense.  At those ranges though, the 105 can't reliably hit weak spots anymore so it still doesn't solve the T10 matchup issue.  So long story short, Tiger 2 is good in T9 or below but absolutely useless in T10 correct?

HereticVoid #33 Posted Apr 01 2015 - 07:52

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View Postlolspin, on Apr 01 2015 - 07:14, said:

 

So basically the Tiger 2 is a tank that uses its armor only to bounce unlucky shots aimed at its turret?  That's a bit depressing but I suppose it makes sense.  At those ranges though, the 105 can't reliably hit weak spots anymore so it still doesn't solve the T10 matchup issue.  So long story short, Tiger 2 is good in T9 or below but absolutely useless in T10 correct?

The same goes to most other t8 including the is3. At that teir the t10 are Rolf stomp machines and you are the things they stomp. Also I haven't been able to see your replays for rl and wot being wot reasons. Any one else having the same problems. As for the unlucky shots don't just really on rng utilize tactics to make it harder for them.

Edit: these tactis are better learned on the kt as the e75 and e100 use the same tactics for the turret later on.



lolspin #34 Posted Apr 01 2015 - 11:04

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View PostHereticVoid, on Apr 01 2015 - 06:52, said:

The same goes to most other t8 including the is3. At that teir the t10 are Rolf stomp machines and you are the things they stomp. Also I haven't been able to see your replays for rl and wot being wot reasons. Any one else having the same problems. As for the unlucky shots don't just really on rng utilize tactics to make it harder for them.

Edit: these tactis are better learned on the kt as the e75 and e100 use the same tactics for the turret later on.

 

That's what I do.  I can maximize the hull armor no problem.  Find some slight elevation to hide LFG behind and sidescrape out to get shots in, but anyone who has around 210mm of pen and isn't dumb enough to try to put a shot into the UFG or heavily angled side armor will just blast me straight in the turret front.  It's the reason that fighting skilled T8 tanks is easier for me in the T7 Tiger 1 than the T8 Tiger 2 as it has the mobility to flank and the armor on both is pretty useless against the likes of say an IS-3 or T28 proto.  At least in the Tiger 1 you can reposition much more easily to put pressure on the person you're focusing.

 

Latest frustration with the Tiger 2:

http://wotreplays.com/site/1757428

 

Took some stupid hits at the start of the game but didn't matter in the end as it didn't seem like the enemy team knew what they were doing.  Yet despite playing against lesser-skilled opponents, the drawbacks of the tank prevent me from doing anything truly amazing.  It's one thing for the tank to get me killed in a game, but to take a game that is pretty much won and turn it into a loss just because the tank is too god damn slow to do anything is just flat out outrageous.



SirEzioHerzog #35 Posted Apr 01 2015 - 15:21

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View Postlolspin, on Apr 01 2015 - 10:04, said:

 

That's what I do.  I can maximize the hull armor no problem.  Find some slight elevation to hide LFG behind and sidescrape out to get shots in, but anyone who has around 210mm of pen and isn't dumb enough to try to put a shot into the UFG or heavily angled side armor will just blast me straight in the turret front.  It's the reason that fighting skilled T8 tanks is easier for me in the T7 Tiger 1 than the T8 Tiger 2 as it has the mobility to flank and the armor on both is pretty useless against the likes of say an IS-3 or T28 proto.  At least in the Tiger 1 you can reposition much more easily to put pressure on the person you're focusing.

 

Latest frustration with the Tiger 2:

http://wotreplays.com/site/1757428

 

Took some stupid hits at the start of the game but didn't matter in the end as it didn't seem like the enemy team knew what they were doing.  Yet despite playing against lesser-skilled opponents, the drawbacks of the tank prevent me from doing anything truly amazing.  It's one thing for the tank to get me killed in a game, but to take a game that is pretty much won and turn it into a loss just because the tank is too god damn slow to do anything is just flat out outrageous.

 

I watched your replay.

 

You might be retarded. I really think this is the case. 

 

You didn't lose because your tank is too 'God-damn slow', you lost because you took a route that was blocked off with a dead tank. Had you gone the other way, you could've easily defended your base. You lost because you made a misplay, not because the tank isn't up to par. 

 

No, but I get it. You're not satisfied with moving 30-40 kmh. You gotta go fast. Go play a Pz. 1 C then.

 

Also, hilariously enough, your turret front blocked a shot during your initial brawl with that Panther M/10. I'll also give you a tip as a Maus driver: Turn your [edited]turret away while your reloading if  you're sidescraping. The angle will make the shots auto-bounce.

 

I'm not sure why I'm even replying really, I'm convinced this is a troll thread. 



HereticVoid #36 Posted Apr 01 2015 - 17:08

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View Postlolspin, on Mar 26 2015 - 00:50, said:

Replays are as follows:

 

Average top tier game: wotreplays.com/site/1739756

Almost every pen straight through the turret front

 

Average T9 game: http://wotreplays.com/site/1739763

Lacks DPM to halt an enemy advance and lacks mobility to reposition when the area is lost

 

Average T10 game: http://wotreplays.com/site/1739768

Just gets walked all over by anything with more than 240 pen.  Doesn't help when the only two tanks holding the flak are T8s.

 

EDIT: As a comparison, first Tiger 1 match of the day: http://wotreplays.com/site/1739824

Not even top tier yet still completely dominating.

1: Funny how you complain about the armor and turret yet manage to do a decent job against t9 td's with your turret and hull.

2: That is just fail on so many lv's man. You went to a lightly defend flank ( not much of a problem here at your tier) and instead of using cover opted to angle out in the open ( that's how you got penned in the join and lower glacies by the t10 meds) not only that you didnt fall back to a more defensive location and stayed where you where.

View Postlolspin, on Apr 01 2015 - 11:04, said:

 

That's what I do.  I can maximize the hull armor no problem.  Find some slight elevation to hide LFG behind and sidescrape out to get shots in, but anyone who has around 210mm of pen and isn't dumb enough to try to put a shot into the UFG or heavily angled side armor will just blast me straight in the turret front.  It's the reason that fighting skilled T8 tanks is easier for me in the T7 Tiger 1 than the T8 Tiger 2 as it has the mobility to flank and the armor on both is pretty useless against the likes of say an IS-3 or T28 proto.  At least in the Tiger 1 you can reposition much more easily to put pressure on the person you're focusing.

 

Latest frustration with the Tiger 2:

http://wotreplays.com/site/1757428

 

Took some stupid hits at the start of the game but didn't matter in the end as it didn't seem like the enemy team knew what they were doing.  Yet despite playing against lesser-skilled opponents, the drawbacks of the tank prevent me from doing anything truly amazing.  It's one thing for the tank to get me killed in a game, but to take a game that is pretty much won and turn it into a loss just because the tank is too god damn slow to do anything is just flat out outrageous.

 

You had plenty of chance to win that. Hell you should have won that had you but gone and defend your camp instead of wondering the city.  It's not that the tank is slow its that you instead of using the speed to defend the camp opted to spend 5 m wondering the city looking for an enemy. You also went trough the worst terrain possible ( climbing hills, not using the roads but instead using the hills as you entered from the back). Added to that you lost a big chunk of hp rushing to a non arty safe spot when there was arty around and staying there too long. (Also had you helped the lowe against the is3 you might have had decent back up. Also you spent too much on the panther and it was only due to your "speed" and view range along with a miracle that you got the shot to reset the cap. If the kt was as slow as you have been saying you would have lost then and there)

 

You know how to use the side scraping and angling but you need to learn the turret angling between reload, how to aim with turret movement and what terrain to use the kt on and what not to use it on.


Edited by HereticVoid, Apr 01 2015 - 17:09.


Zythalin #37 Posted Apr 02 2015 - 12:19

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I asked our Tiger II fan on WotLabs for replays & how to use.

 

For those intrested: http://forum.wotlabs...box-tank/page-2



lolspin #38 Posted Apr 03 2015 - 06:53

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View PostHereticVoid, on Apr 01 2015 - 16:08, said:

1: Funny how you complain about the armor and turret yet manage to do a decent job against t9 td's with your turret and hull.

2: That is just fail on so many lv's man. You went to a lightly defend flank ( not much of a problem here at your tier) and instead of using cover opted to angle out in the open ( that's how you got penned in the join and lower glacies by the t10 meds) not only that you didnt fall back to a more defensive location and stayed where you where.

 

You had plenty of chance to win that. Hell you should have won that had you but gone and defend your camp instead of wondering the city.  It's not that the tank is slow its that you instead of using the speed to defend the camp opted to spend 5 m wondering the city looking for an enemy. You also went trough the worst terrain possible ( climbing hills, not using the roads but instead using the hills as you entered from the back). Added to that you lost a big chunk of hp rushing to a non arty safe spot when there was arty around and staying there too long. (Also had you helped the lowe against the is3 you might have had decent back up. Also you spent too much on the panther and it was only due to your "speed" and view range along with a miracle that you got the shot to reset the cap. If the kt was as slow as you have been saying you would have lost then and there)

 

You know how to use the side scraping and angling but you need to learn the turret angling between reload, how to aim with turret movement and what terrain to use the kt on and what not to use it on.

 

1. None of the shots bounced my turret.  They were all hull shots at >70 degrees.  The hull armor is very good but the turret armor is absolutely flat with sides so soft that angling even more than 10 degrees will allow it to be penned by most T7 guns.

 

2. Enemy team had eyes on the only way back to a less exposed position.  I'd pretty much accepted my death after our scouts got smashed and the lot of their mediums started flanking.  As per why I headed in that direction, the majority of the tanks I expected to head east I can't even scratch from the front if they're in position.  I figured best thing to do was to avoid them at all costs.

 

As per the last game, our ARL was sitting in their cap the whole time I was heading back to defend ours.  After I'd killed both players on our cap, I headed towards the ARL's position to try to help him out.  Unfortunately he ended up just sitting there and dying and I prioritized the SU-100 as the must-kill target due to the huge amounts of damage it could put out.  If I had just sit and tried to defend at cap while letting their team reorganize, I'd likely have just flat out died.  As per terrain, the biggest challenge there is that I simply do not know the maps well enough to know the fastest way to and from certain areas.  Even looking back at it now I'd still need a map for the "optimal" route back since I don't personally see which way would have gotten me back faster.  As per HP, that wasn't what irritated me.  I'm not wise as to where arty-safe spots on maps are as of yet and all I have as reference of where to go are the heatmaps on vBAddict.  Needless to say there was none for Windstorm so I just head to wherever looks safest.  As per panther, yeah that was a bad idea.  I was expecting the T29 to back up and try to engage but he didn't and I started moving towards cap as soon as I realized he was capping with the IS-3.

 

@Zythalin: Tried his equipment layout attempting the style of play detailed in the thread.  Vents along with 100 octane fuel really help with the mobility issue and makes it feel closer to the VK 36.01 in terms of mobility.  I'd imagine once I get clutch braking to 100% that will improve even further.

 

On a related note: this was a very unexpected turn of events.

http://wotreplays.com/site/1762729

 

First MoE despite the fact that it feels like I do absolutely terribly in the tank.  I must not be alone in thinking that it's pretty meh.



HereticVoid #39 Posted Apr 03 2015 - 17:31

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View Postlolspin, on Apr 03 2015 - 06:53, said:

 

1. None of the shots bounced my turret.  They were all hull shots at >70 degrees.  The hull armor is very good but the turret armor is absolutely flat with sides so soft that angling even more than 10 degrees will allow it to be penned by most T7 guns.

 

2. Enemy team had eyes on the only way back to a less exposed position.  I'd pretty much accepted my death after our scouts got smashed and the lot of their mediums started flanking.  As per why I headed in that direction, the majority of the tanks I expected to head east I can't even scratch from the front if they're in position.  I figured best thing to do was to avoid them at all costs.

 

As per the last game, our ARL was sitting in their cap the whole time I was heading back to defend ours.  After I'd killed both players on our cap, I headed towards the ARL's position to try to help him out.  Unfortunately he ended up just sitting there and dying and I prioritized the SU-100 as the must-kill target due to the huge amounts of damage it could put out.  If I had just sit and tried to defend at cap while letting their team reorganize, I'd likely have just flat out died.  As per terrain, the biggest challenge there is that I simply do not know the maps well enough to know the fastest way to and from certain areas.  Even looking back at it now I'd still need a map for the "optimal" route back since I don't personally see which way would have gotten me back faster.  As per HP, that wasn't what irritated me.  I'm not wise as to where arty-safe spots on maps are as of yet and all I have as reference of where to go are the heatmaps on vBAddict.  Needless to say there was none for Windstorm so I just head to wherever looks safest.  As per panther, yeah that was a bad idea.  I was expecting the T29 to back up and try to engage but he didn't and I started moving towards cap as soon as I realized he was capping with the IS-3.

 

@Zythalin: Tried his equipment layout attempting the style of play detailed in the thread.  Vents along with 100 octane fuel really help with the mobility issue and makes it feel closer to the VK 36.01 in terms of mobility.  I'd imagine once I get clutch braking to 100% that will improve even further.

 

On a related note: this was a very unexpected turn of events.

http://wotreplays.com/site/1762729

 

First MoE despite the fact that it feels like I do absolutely terribly in the tank.  I must not be alone in thinking that it's pretty meh.

 

1:Watch your own rely man your turret bounced a few shots..

2: The problem was that the enemy was not organized and at least one of them had capped. You could have easily killed that person and then gone hunting or capping their base to force them out. Defending the base takes priority man.

3:Ya the octane helps but dont really on it too much it. Clutch braking and off road driving help the most. As for the KT it is meh for good players, for average and below it is crap because only a few people have the play style and skills necessary to bring out the best from the KT because it requires a bit of skill to use right.



Manimal__ #40 Posted Apr 03 2015 - 23:52

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I think that the tiger 2 is nothing but an overrated, over historically hyped mediocre tank that is okay against 8ts, bad against t9s and horrible against t10s. T7's can smash through it and so can some t6s. Now before you all rage reply saying I don't know how to play it properly, or don't know how to angle etc I have 4 perks and 3 marks of excellence on my tiger 2 so I do in fact know how to play it. I am also not convinced that german tanks as a nation are the most accurate in the entire game. I don't know how many times with my Ferdi, jgtiger or tiger 2 that I've fully aimed in on a weak spot on a tank thats barely 200m away and missed the entire tank completely. Maybe it's because I don't don't use server recticle...who knows.




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