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Is the Tiger 2 good for anything?


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HereticVoid #41 Posted Apr 04 2015 - 00:58

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View Postmanimal79, on Apr 03 2015 - 23:52, said:

I think that the tiger 2 is nothing but an overrated, over historically hyped mediocre tank that is okay against 8ts, bad against t9s and horrible against t10s. T7's can smash through it and so can some t6s. Now before you all rage reply saying I don't know how to play it properly, or don't know how to angle etc I have 4 perks and 3 marks of excellence on my tiger 2 so I do in fact know how to play it. I am also not convinced that german tanks as a nation are the most accurate in the entire game. I don't know how many times with my Ferdi, jgtiger or tiger 2 that I've fully aimed in on a weak spot on a tank thats barely 200m away and missed the entire tank completely. Maybe it's because I don't don't use server recticle...who knows.

 

The fact that you dont use the server rec is your fault and is the reason that happens. MoE arent that big a big deal as all you have to do is be a useless sniper long enough to get the wn8 and MOE. KT is ok against t8 and 9 but is bad against t10. It is mediocre but t7's cant smash it.

Guardianleopard #42 Posted Apr 05 2015 - 19:10

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View Postkilroy26, on Mar 24 2015 - 12:45, said:

The Tiger 2 is not a bad tank it actually has fairly decent armor and it's gun is pretty good....do you know how to sidescrape?

 

actually, I found 2 counters for that, A shoot almost any part of the turret, B shoot just above the track for almost guaranteed damage with a narrow chance to hit

HereticVoid #43 Posted Apr 05 2015 - 20:34

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View PostGuardianleopard, on Apr 05 2015 - 19:10, said:

 

actually, I found 2 counters for that, A shoot almost any part of the turret, B shoot just above the track for almost guaranteed damage with a narrow chance to hit

A: wiggle and juke

B: Shake that booty you be at and angle where only the tracks eat damage or better yet be tucked in or face hugging the wall so that they don't have shots at the front wheel.



Armodeus #44 Posted Apr 06 2015 - 00:07

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The KT makes an awesome looking museum piece in your garage.

 

The thing to remember about every tank in this game, KT included is that it's not really a tank. It's a bunch of ones and zeros in a computer. Here's just one example of  what that means in actual practice. KT with 10,5 cm Kw.K. L/68  (225mm pen) versus AMX 13 90 (turret armor 40/20/20, hull armor 40/20/15) I aim, compensate for speed and angle that he's driving away from me at and he gets hit a half second before I fire, bringing him down to 394 hp. My round hits him in from behind. Result? See for yourself.

 

http://www.dropshots.com/Armodeus/date/2015-04-05/18:20:00

 

I go on to get 5 shots fired, 5 hits, zero damage. Because RNG doesn't apply to individual shots, it applies entire series of shots. This 5 shot string of bounces was actually the end of an 8 bounce string which began in the previous match, one of which was off the side of a Wolverine. All those bounced shots proved fatal, I was actually splashed to near death  and tracked by arty that never directly hit me, making me easy pickings for the IS7. Sometimes the ones and zeroes decide you are a KT, but sometimes they decide you are a Loltraktor. The point: There is simply no excuse to take this freemium arcade game, or any of the tanks in it serious. It's a diversion, nothing more and the moment you begin to think otherwise it's time to log off and go engage the real world.



Guardianleopard #45 Posted Apr 06 2015 - 01:20

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View PostHereticVoid, on Apr 05 2015 - 20:34, said:

A: wiggle and juke

B: Shake that booty you be at and angle where only the tracks eat damage or better yet be tucked in or face hugging the wall so that they don't have shots at the front wheel.

 

shoot the turret anywhere with a 200mm pen gun or premium for guaranteed penetration, how do I know? Centurion stronk tonk I have actual turret armour

HereticVoid #46 Posted Apr 06 2015 - 02:46

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View PostGuardianleopard, on Apr 06 2015 - 01:20, said:

 

shoot the turret anywhere with a 200mm pen gun or premium for guaranteed penetration, how do I know? Centurion stronk tonk I have actual turret armour

 

Tell that to the many shots ive bounced, made miss or better yet ate with my periscope. German periscope stronk hue hue hue. With the tip of the turret angle you can do a auto bounce, With cupola you can either make it miss or have a periscope eat it and lastly with the turret face you have have it at an angle for bounce or make the gun eat the shot. These are tactics to use against those aiming for the coupla and it works. Wot lab has better kt drivers then me try their fourms and see the many stronk tactics for all nations hue hue.

lolspin #47 Posted Apr 06 2015 - 10:56

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View PostHereticVoid, on Apr 06 2015 - 01:46, said:

 

Tell that to the many shots ive bounced, made miss or better yet ate with my periscope. German periscope stronk hue hue hue. With the tip of the turret angle you can do a auto bounce, With cupola you can either make it miss or have a periscope eat it and lastly with the turret face you have have it at an angle for bounce or make the gun eat the shot. These are tactics to use against those aiming for the coupla and it works. Wot lab has better kt drivers then me try their fourms and see the many stronk tactics for all nations hue hue.

 

Guns of 120mm bore or larger overmatch turret roof.  Guns with around 220mm of pen go through mantlet about 75% of the time.  Angling turret front exposes side turret armor which is only 80mm thick.  Posted on wotlabs and only real solution is to not get shot in the turret.  Play against people who make a lot of mistakes and you can dominate in this (or any for that matter) tank.  Up against people who actually know what they're doing and the Tiger 2 is simply inadequate in my eyes.  Its weak spots are large and flat, its turret is a massive weak spot for any gun larger than 120mm from any angle, and the gun lacks the fear factor that would prevent people from rushing you as the Tiger 1 or any other high pen, high DPM tanks have.  It just seems so reliant on the performance of both teams in order to perform well.

supershutze #48 Posted Apr 06 2015 - 12:36

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Tiger II has been left behind by power-creep and the changing meta, but it's not a bad tank.

 

That said, it's not a particularly good tank either. It's kinda average.



Guardianleopard #49 Posted Apr 06 2015 - 12:41

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Alright, let's use an example. In a hull down position, who would win, a Centurion 1 or a Tiger II. The answer is the Centurion, sporting it's largely superior turret armour, as well as nigh invincibility against the 10.5cm L/68 (me vs, 5 tiger II's, result, steel wall and over 5k dmg bounced and all five destroyed, of course, it was their fault that I murdered them at F0 in Al Halluf but I was bouncing their APCR too)

 

now, in open plains, who would win, the Tiger II, or the Centurion, well the answer is, the Centurion, because the Tiger II is blind and seems to have a camo value of 1% it will be doomed at long range. The turret to is another glaring weakspot that prevent the KT from being as effective. But wait a minute, the Centurion has poor camo too! But the Centurion unlike the Tiger, is actually mobile...

 

now in a brawl, who would win, now this is a tricky question because I have encountered this situation once, I first put a shot into his turret jamming it (right through face), next I placed a shell in his track which damage his engine and track, then I flanked him. In a centurion. However I have no doubt that most players are smarter, and the Tiger II is more likely to win, no wait, the Centurion can just disengage...

 

but the turret NEEDS a buff, NEEDS it to live! I propose a larger turret with values of 200/120/120 (mm) for the 10.5cm gun with a little more DPM, more view range by 5 and more weight. As well as a roof thickness of 75mm at the front and back top, middle of it stays the same

 

the first thing I shoot when I see a KT is the turret, almost guaranteed to penetrate when driving my centy



EspressoForHammy #50 Posted Apr 06 2015 - 12:52

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I have been running a 3500-4000 WN8 in my Tiger II recently, and here's how:

 

1. STAHP playing it like a heavy. It simply does NOT have enough armor to brawl in normal spots where heavies go.

2. It has semi decent armor at range while angled or scraping, however, and the gun is VERY accurate, so range is your friend all the way around.

3. King Tiger is best played by backing up a heavy or medium push or defense from range, with some arty cover if possible.

4. Gun depression is OK, so use hilltops to hide the lower plate when you can, but don't stay exposed since the turret is auto-penned by gold rounds at tier 8-9.

5. Stay ready to move back to defend cap when needed; the Tiger II is mobile enough to make it back and snipey enough to reset from range.

 

Bottom line? Play the King Tiger the same way you play a slower medium or a faster TD.



supershutze #51 Posted Apr 06 2015 - 12:59

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View PostEspressoForHammy, on Apr 06 2015 - 03:52, said:

I have been running a 3500-4000 WN8 in my Tiger II recently, and here's how:

 

1. STAHP playing it like a heavy. It simply does NOT have enough armor to brawl in normal spots where heavies go.

2. It has semi decent armor at range while angled or scraping, however, and the gun is VERY accurate, so range is your friend all the way around.

3. King Tiger is best played by backing up a heavy or medium push or defense from range, with some arty cover if possible.

4. Gun depression is OK, so use hilltops to hide the lower plate when you can, but don't stay exposed since the turret is auto-penned by gold rounds at tier 8-9.

5. Stay ready to move back to defend cap when needed; the Tiger II is mobile enough to make it back and snipey enough to reset from range.

 

Bottom line? Play the King Tiger the same way you play a slower medium or a faster TD.

 

You could shorten that to "Play it exactly like a Tiger I"

HereticVoid #52 Posted Apr 06 2015 - 16:44

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View PostGuardianleopard, on Apr 06 2015 - 12:41, said:

Alright, let's use an example. In a hull down position, who would win, a Centurion 1 or a Tiger II. The answer is the Centurion, sporting it's largely superior turret armour, as well as nigh invincibility against the 10.5cm L/68 (me vs, 5 tiger II's, result, steel wall and over 5k dmg bounced and all five destroyed, of course, it was their fault that I murdered them at F0 in Al Halluf but I was bouncing their APCR too)

 

now, in open plains, who would win, the Tiger II, or the Centurion, well the answer is, the Centurion, because the Tiger II is blind and seems to have a camo value of 1% it will be doomed at long range. The turret to is another glaring weakspot that prevent the KT from being as effective. But wait a minute, the Centurion has poor camo too! But the Centurion unlike the Tiger, is actually mobile...

 

now in a brawl, who would win, now this is a tricky question because I have encountered this situation once, I first put a shot into his turret jamming it (right through face), next I placed a shell in his track which damage his engine and track, then I flanked him. In a centurion. However I have no doubt that most players are smarter, and the Tiger II is more likely to win, no wait, the Centurion can just disengage...

 

but the turret NEEDS a buff, NEEDS it to live! I propose a larger turret with values of 200/120/120 (mm) for the 10.5cm gun with a little more DPM, more view range by 5 and more weight. As well as a roof thickness of 75mm at the front and back top, middle of it stays the same

 

the first thing I shoot when I see a KT is the turret, almost guaranteed to penetrate when driving my centy

 

1: If they where there then i higly doubt they were good players or knew the cents turret weak spot. It's the same like the is3. A good plyer would just not engine the cent.

2: The kt is only 20m less then the cent and tough the camo value may widen this to 50 m or more it aint that much. It aint blind at all tho i missed the old days of 400m view range heh. The kt is also mobile enough seeing as it the cent can only go 40 max while the kt can go more down hill and maintain 30-40 easy. The cent may be a bit faster but ultimately it is either going into a ranged fight or try to flank.

3: So can the KT and in a brawl the cent cant aim for the weak spot's as easily meaning the kt has an advantage espicaly as the cent is so slow for a med.

4: It will never get buffed because the devs dont want the old Kt that could go hull down and just murder t9 and 10's with its 400m view range and optics/ binocs heh.

 

View Postlolspin, on Apr 06 2015 - 10:56, said:

 

Guns of 120mm bore or larger overmatch turret roof.  Guns with around 220mm of pen go through mantlet about 75% of the time.  Angling turret front exposes side turret armor which is only 80mm thick.  Posted on wotlabs and only real solution is to not get shot in the turret.  Play against people who make a lot of mistakes and you can dominate in this (or any for that matter) tank.  Up against people who actually know what they're doing and the Tiger 2 is simply inadequate in my eyes.  Its weak spots are large and flat, its turret is a massive weak spot for any gun larger than 120mm from any angle, and the gun lacks the fear factor that would prevent people from rushing you as the Tiger 1 or any other high pen, high DPM tanks have.  It just seems so reliant on the performance of both teams in order to perform well.

Only if they hit at exact roof. Only if the mantle is straight and facing them. If you angle the gun outwards you dont expose the turret side. I dont see any post asking bout the kt and the turret on wotlab in the german section at least.  While that is the best solution there are ways to minimize/ counteract against those going for the turret. The same can be said for the is3 because i constantly go against players that know it's weak spot or against higer tiers and i would prefer the kt rather then the is3. As for the alpha no t8 heavy has alpha that makes any decent player be careful only the td's have the alpha at that tier to make people be careful. Lastly while it has no great advantage and its weak point is the semi decent armor and average speed it can be compensated for meaning that it isnt reliant on your or the enemy team. It is hard to carry in the KT but unlike the is3 the kt can spot it's target if it is the last one left, unlike the t32 it actually has the gun to be effective midrange or long range and unlike the carnv it is faster and has better armour (lol).



lolspin #53 Posted Apr 07 2015 - 10:13

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View PostHereticVoid, on Apr 06 2015 - 15:44, said:

 

1: If they where there then i higly doubt they were good players or knew the cents turret weak spot. It's the same like the is3. A good plyer would just not engine the cent.

2: The kt is only 20m less then the cent and tough the camo value may widen this to 50 m or more it aint that much. It aint blind at all tho i missed the old days of 400m view range heh. The kt is also mobile enough seeing as it the cent can only go 40 max while the kt can go more down hill and maintain 30-40 easy. The cent may be a bit faster but ultimately it is either going into a ranged fight or try to flank.

3: So can the KT and in a brawl the cent cant aim for the weak spot's as easily meaning the kt has an advantage espicaly as the cent is so slow for a med.

4: It will never get buffed because the devs dont want the old Kt that could go hull down and just murder t9 and 10's with its 400m view range and optics/ binocs heh.

 

Only if they hit at exact roof. Only if the mantle is straight and facing them. If you angle the gun outwards you dont expose the turret side. I dont see any post asking bout the kt and the turret on wotlab in the german section at least.  While that is the best solution there are ways to minimize/ counteract against those going for the turret. The same can be said for the is3 because i constantly go against players that know it's weak spot or against higer tiers and i would prefer the kt rather then the is3. As for the alpha no t8 heavy has alpha that makes any decent player be careful only the td's have the alpha at that tier to make people be careful. Lastly while it has no great advantage and its weak point is the semi decent armor and average speed it can be compensated for meaning that it isnt reliant on your or the enemy team. It is hard to carry in the KT but unlike the is3 the kt can spot it's target if it is the last one left, unlike the t32 it actually has the gun to be effective midrange or long range and unlike the carnv it is faster and has better armour (lol).

 

It's the one linked earlier in this thread.  In any case, turret roof for the Tiger 2 is easier to hit than turret roof for IS-3 or cupola for T32.  Even if you miss the roof, if the enemy is an IS-3, there's a good chance it will still go through the turret face.  I can't really comment on carry potential for IS-3 as I haven't played it; but, when playing against it, it sure seems like a better carry machine than the Tiger 2.  Smaller weak spots on turret and equal, if not better mobility make it more suited for carrying in my eyes.  The only downfall is the hull armor which, as you said, can be compensated for.

HereticVoid #54 Posted Apr 07 2015 - 16:34

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View Postlolspin, on Apr 07 2015 - 10:13, said:

 

It's the one linked earlier in this thread.  In any case, turret roof for the Tiger 2 is easier to hit than turret roof for IS-3 or cupola for T32.  Even if you miss the roof, if the enemy is an IS-3, there's a good chance it will still go through the turret face.  I can't really comment on carry potential for IS-3 as I haven't played it; but, when playing against it, it sure seems like a better carry machine than the Tiger 2.  Smaller weak spots on turret and equal, if not better mobility make it more suited for carrying in my eyes.  The only downfall is the hull armor which, as you said, can be compensated for.

 

While the t32 is true the is3 is actualy easier to hit because of its smaller size it's easier to aim down on it with taller tanks. If the enemy is3 is aiming at the roof you can use your gun to block or juke and move to make it miss. Like the wot lab forums posters said the best thing is not to get hit but as we cant always do that there are many ways to minimize the risk. As for carry potential in city maps or small maps if the team is still alive then the is3 is better for carrying. The problem however arises from the fact that the is 3 has no view range, it's gun aint the most accurate, its small size means some times you cannot utilize hull down spots and lastly the biggest problem is the lack of gun depression. While mobility is indeed necessary for carrying a game you also need view range, fire power and decent gun depression to have multiple avenues of attack. The is3 has places that can be used in all maps like the Americans but those spots aren't always in the best spot to defend a cap or overlook a enemy push.

Guardianleopard #55 Posted Apr 08 2015 - 23:27

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View PostHereticVoid, on Apr 06 2015 - 16:44, said:

 

1: If they where there then i higly doubt they were good players or knew the cents turret weak spot. It's the same like the is3. A good plyer would just not engine the cent. but they did strike my turret roof +50 times as I was doing my hull downing, even bounced 250mm pen off the roof (premium)

2: The kt is only 20m less then the cent and tough the camo value may widen this to 50 m or more it aint that much. It aint blind at all tho i missed the old days of 400m view range heh. The kt is also mobile enough seeing as it the cent can only go 40 max while the kt can go more down hill and maintain 30-40 easy. The cent may be a bit faster but ultimately it is either going into a ranged fight or try to flank. King tiger, fast, mobile? that makes you sound delusional, please don't add insult to injury. The Centurion can EASILY out manuever a King Tiger

3: So can the KT and in a brawl the cent cant aim for the weak spot's as easily meaning the kt has an advantage espicaly as the cent is so slow for a med. okay, now this is ridiculous, how many weakspots does the Centurion have vs King Tiger, lets see, the King Tiger's whole turret is a write off, the hull is negated by LFP, shots to the tracks for full damage (aim just above them), the side armour, and the tank is massive, Centurion only has 2, the whole hull, and the turret roof

4: It will never get buffed because the devs dont want the old Kt that could go hull down and just murder t9 and 10's with its 400m view range and optics/ binocs heh.

King Tiger, hull down?! arty, 1 shot kill, all modules damaged.

 


Edited by Guardianleopard, Apr 08 2015 - 23:29.


Rustyduktape #56 Posted Apr 09 2015 - 02:51

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View PostEspressoForHammy, on Apr 06 2015 - 06:52, said:

I have been running a 3500-4000 WN8 in my Tiger II recently, and here's how:

 

1. STAHP playing it like a heavy. It simply does NOT have enough armor to brawl in normal spots where heavies go.

2. It has semi decent armor at range while angled or scraping, however, and the gun is VERY accurate, so range is your friend all the way around.

3. King Tiger is best played by backing up a heavy or medium push or defense from range, with some arty cover if possible.

4. Gun depression is OK, so use hilltops to hide the lower plate when you can, but don't stay exposed since the turret is auto-penned by gold rounds at tier 8-9.

5. Stay ready to move back to defend cap when needed; the Tiger II is mobile enough to make it back and snipey enough to reset from range.

 

Bottom line? Play the King Tiger the same way you play a slower medium or a faster TD.

 

Great points. I love the Tiger II. To me it's the only heavy I enjoy playing. I think my experience with American mediums is why I enjoy it so much (going with what you said in the last line). Also, if you are going to sidescrape, dont keep your turret pointed at the enemy, or inline with your hull, but point it inbetween your hull armor and the enemy (if that makes any sense). I've been able to bounce quite a few shots that way. Basically if you can hide the lower plate you're golden. 

 

My final and most important point: the Tiger II is just friggen BA. It and the Super P are my two favorite looking tanks, and they are just mean looking. Nothing cooler than rolling across an open field in your Tiger II and blasting away as you go. I've bought most of the camos for this tank as well, haha, and I just got my first mark so it's looking as sexy as ever. 

 

It also helps that all my crew members' first skill is Repair. That plus a toolbox makes for a very short track repair time, very useful IMO. 

 

Basically everyone should have one and love it, there is no debate. 

 



Hoboshoes #57 Posted Apr 09 2015 - 03:00

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I liked my KT, when sidscraping its a monster. After firing your shot, wiggle your turret side to side a bit. If somebody decides to facehug you, lift your gun up to prevent them from shooting your turret roof and cupola.

lolspin #58 Posted Apr 09 2015 - 04:38

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View PostThe_Alecto, on Apr 09 2015 - 02:00, said:

I liked my KT, when sidscraping its a monster. After firing your shot, wiggle your turret side to side a bit. If somebody decides to facehug you, lift your gun up to prevent them from shooting your turret roof and cupola.

I've actually never been face hugged in my tiger 2 yet unless I wanted to face hug (coming around the corner against a reloading is3 for example).  The problem with the armor is that it has large weak spots from every possible position you out yourself in.  If you get tracked while sides scraping if they catch a glimpse of your turret roof they can over match with the all too common Russian 122.  If hull down, you still have the exact same weak spots.  The is3 has a much smaller turret weak spots as does the t32.

 

@hammy: I'm finding out the hard way that this is 100% true.  A little disappointing based on what I had read months ago about its gun and armor but a fact I have to face.  This is why I'm looking forward to getting my e75 as I can see just how tough this tank is after playing against them in both my tigers (save a few very small weak spots that you'll only hit if the e75 stays perfectly still and let's you aim in).  I'm hoping the e75 plays more like a front line heavy as I've read as I personally don't like having to trust others to have the necessary knowledge of the game to win the front. 



Stimulus #59 Posted Apr 09 2015 - 21:43

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Shrug, I've carried far more games in my Tiger II than in the IS-3.  I think the armor is good and consider the gun to be best in class at tier 8.

SMBakerESQ #60 Posted May 20 2015 - 21:42

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The gun is a railgun. Everything else is crap. But shoot 15 times a game and good things happen.  




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