20 replies to this topic

[MisterLemons]

In reality, most of the panthers delicate machinery was covered up by additional armor plating, other objects such as pilot wheels, or much smaller than world of tanks portreys them to be. But for reasons unknown, wargaming has taken the liberty of blowing up the size and vunerability of all hitboxes. Based on museum photos and information gathered by taken hits I have charted out what it is and what it should be.



As you an see, it is kind of hard not to hit an object of value on the panther. The engine is fekking huge and capable of being set ablaze from the front of the vehicle quite often. Sometimes I doubt the game mechanics even register tha panthers frontal 80mm armor as sloped, it is insane how many rounds used to bounce off my old VK(DB) with the same frontal armor but now just whiz right through on the panther. Adding insult to injury via the whole treaded area being a track hitbox.

[menochinese]

Yeah. I was going to complain, it's like the Panther I is the new Tiger I, and I have (had) a Tiger I.

[krzauber]

My DB used to bounce frontal shots from even Lowes quite often.  My panther bounces virtually nothing, and seems like it receives module damage on >50% of hits.  I'm happy to say that the Panther II seems much better in this respect than the panther.

[Ekental]

Actually, the gun hit box does not extend the entire length of the gun. Also, uh... yeah... tracks are accurate as of last patch.

You also didn't mention the myriad # of weak armor points that stud German tanks in general,

i.e. that your transmission extends the length of the tank, and that a shot on the underside will often go straight to your engine.

Or that the machine gun port on your hull as well as the tracks themselves have 30 and 60mm of armor, respectively. Anyone aiming for those will not only pen, but often hit the driver, who I guess.. sits there.

Also, the micky mouse buds on your turret have 30mm of armor, and you take full dmg when you're struck there.

Many tanks have similar issues, it's just that the German tanks tend to be the ones most studded with... poorly armored important bits, and that means that you are more likely to be randomly crippled every hit.

Although on the flip side, many people aim for your exhaust pipes, expecting to hit the engine, when in reality that's not where it actually sits.

Anyhow, yeah.. TL;DR getting hit on German tanks is bad, would avoid if possible.

[MisterLemons]

Ekental, on Jun 15 2011 - 05:29, said:

Actually, the gun hit box does not extend the entire length of the gun. Also, uh... yeah... tracks are accurate as of last patch.

You also didn't mention the myriad # of weak armor points that stud German tanks in general,

i.e. that your transmission extends the length of the tank, and that a shot on the underside will often go straight to your engine.

Or that the machine gun port on your hull as well as the tracks themselves have 30 and 60mm of armor, respectively. Anyone aiming for those will not only pen, but often hit the driver, who I guess.. sits there.

Also, the micky mouse buds on your turret have 30mm of armor, and you take full dmg when you're struck there.

Many tanks have similar issues, it's just that the German tanks tend to be the ones most studded with... poorly armored important bits, and that means that you are more likely to be randomly crippled every hit.

Although on the flip side, many people aim for your exhaust pipes, expecting to hit the engine, when in reality that's not where it actually sits.

Anyhow, yeah.. TL;DR getting hit on German tanks is bad, would avoid if possible.

There was a game on mountain pass a few days ago where a leopard was poping rounds off at my side while I was distracted with the numerous guys in front of me. First few did damage, the one I noticed was the one that damaged my ammorack. So I waited for him to pop out again and threw an 88mm round in his face in hoped of realizing how deep under he was and would back off (took him down to about 48%). So I went back to focusing on the group in front of me and used my repair kit to fix the ammorack. A minute later with around 700 HP left I spontaneously exploded and the camera went to the leopard behind the rock. I nearly pissed myself as I saw the little bastard had ammoracked me. A tier 5 light ammoracked a tier 8 medium, with his shells costing about 60 credits each, he inflicted 14,000 credits of damage to me and took away my ability to be of use to my team.

Another story would be the one that happened yesterday, not as shocking but still BS none the less. I was in my panther and MY objective was to rame my buddy to death in his T46 light russian tank. I was chasing him all over himmelsdorf. I said he could fire at me as he pleased. Well, he did pop off an exhorbant ammount of ammunition at my frontal but a good number of them actually penitrated my frontal armor enough to do damage. I told him to switch to penitration rounds to see if it would bounce but his reply was that he was using them. I thought he was using EXP because there was no way a gun on a tier 3 light tank could damage my panther fromt the front. Well, he did...

Honestly you cant tell me there isnt something drasticly wrong with that picture. What could it be? Lets take a look at what wargaming has royally screwed up here.
It could be that...
-Ammorack is too vunerable and large
-Side/front armor is WAY too thin
-Panther gets into matches it cant handle (not likely)

[Camels]

The panther is a fragile beast. In the tiger, I can go into battle, and knowing I wont bounce, will take the hits, and still come out in decent shape (ofcourse i wont go up against 128's or 105's but t 7 guns mostly or lower). The panther requires more skill though then a tiger. ( and a tiger does take skill to use). With this tank u have to avoid all hits. and slanting the armour does not help as much as it should. If it remains this fragile, it really needs a damage buff(to offset loosing my gun half the time, or ammorack, or gunner and re loader), or the modules need to be fixed. Its a good tank now, but the big issue is that low tier guns that have high rof that will destroy the panther. Its the same reason y ppl say that the tiger is worse then a is or t 29,

[FRUITKOMMANDO]

The radio operator sits behind the hull mg and he gets the good news quite often along with anyone sitting in the turret

[MisterLemons]

I wanna revise the picture a bit. Currently the engine hitbox is the WHOLE EFFING FRONT OF THE PANTHER. It extends from track to track, bottom to top of the hull.

[Gotaminute]

Wow, the entire rear end looks like a bulls-eye. 3 modules if aimed right

[Goldensaver]

Gotaminute, on Jun 16 2011 - 01:39, said:

Wow, the entire rear end looks like a bulls-eye. 3 modules if aimed right

That's why a lot of us complain about the module damage. That and the fact that most of the tank is a hitbox for something. At least with most other tanks, you have armor to protect them, or at least some camo rating. But the Panther has next to no camo, has a weak skin, and just takes it.

[vs125r]

Ekental, on Jun 15 2011 - 05:29, said:

....
Anyhow, yeah.. TL;DR getting hit on panther is bad, would avoid if possible.

This, fixed btw. We can discuss the topic to oblivion, ress the topic, make a dead horse out of it and beat it till kingdom come. So far this the the only way to play the panther. Stay back, stay out of sight and snipe away. If someone says you're a noob, just tell him bugger off.

edit: i just killed a panther at point blank (front, range about 15m) with the 75mm/70. Granted he was at 8% hp. Try do that to T44 or US T8 (cant remember the name) it'll bounce your shot.

[hazywater]

Gotaminute, on Jun 16 2011 - 01:39, said:

Wow, the entire rear end looks like a bulls-eye. 3 modules if aimed right

Actually all the German and USA tanks have very similar hitboxes. You can kind of shoot at them interchangeably in the same spot and hit the same things. You can even get engine hits from the front because they both use a similar transmission and wargaming thinks diesel was used as a lubricant. The russian tanks tend to have their ammo racks (or a secondary rack) in the turret and not below the turret as in German and US tanks.

[joertexas]

Maybe I'm a keen student of the obvious, but the Panter's ammo racks are located right in the center of the vehicle's profile - which is precisely where Auto-aim will place the recticle (and I know what people say about Auto-aim, but I'd bet many people use it).

JR

[hectorjr21]

MisterLemons, on Jun 15 2011 - 19:26, said:

There was a game on mountain pass a few days ago where a leopard was poping rounds off at my side while I was distracted with the numerous guys in front of me. First few did damage, the one I noticed was the one that damaged my ammorack. So I waited for him to pop out again and threw an 88mm round in his face in hoped of realizing how deep under he was and would back off (took him down to about 48%). So I went back to focusing on the group in front of me and used my repair kit to fix the ammorack. A minute later with around 700 HP left I spontaneously exploded and the camera went to the leopard behind the rock. I nearly pissed myself as I saw the little bastard had ammoracked me. A tier 5 light ammoracked a tier 8 medium, with his shells costing about 60 credits each, he inflicted 14,000 credits of damage to me and took away my ability to be of use to my team.

Another story would be the one that happened yesterday, not as shocking but still BS none the less. I was in my panther and MY objective was to rame my buddy to death in his T46 light russian tank. I was chasing him all over himmelsdorf. I said he could fire at me as he pleased. Well, he did pop off an exhorbant ammount of ammunition at my frontal but a good number of them actually penitrated my frontal armor enough to do damage. I told him to switch to penitration rounds to see if it would bounce but his reply was that he was using them. I thought he was using EXP because there was no way a gun on a tier 3 light tank could damage my panther fromt the front. Well, he did...

Honestly you cant tell me there isnt something drasticly wrong with that picture. What could it be? Lets take a look at what wargaming has royally screwed up here.
It could be that...
-Ammorack is too vunerable and large
-Side/front armor is WAY too thin
-Panther gets into matches it cant handle (not likely)

Try playing the T44 or the T23, they also take huge amounts of module damage, and they both require WAR's.
The Panther has 80mm of frontal armor, its decent, it will bounce low tier shots, but don't rely on it. The gun with the best pen(75 avg) on the T46 would penetrate the Panther with a really lucky shot, but it would require the max penetration of that gun.

[MisterLemons]

hectorjr21, on Jun 16 2011 - 19:23, said:

Try playing the T44 or the T23, they also take huge amounts of module damage, and they both require WAR's.
The Panther has 80mm of frontal armor, its decent, it will bounce low tier shots, but don't rely on it. The gun with the best pen(75 avg) on the T46 would penetrate the Panther with a really lucky shot, but it would require the max penetration of that gun.

None the less, the tier 3 light tank penitrated the frontal armor of tier 8 medium, which is pathetic. I reacently found that nearly the entire front of the hull is an engine hitbox. Yes, even where the driver and navigator sit, the engine extends. Ide like to know why an engine so big doesnt prevent rounds from damaging my tank, like so many others have.

[K1D27H]

MisterLemons: I drive Panther as well, and I come to accept the fact that the devs are not going to do anything to change it anytime soon as it is not their precious tank. I cannot say for other Panther drivers but I make do with all the deficiencies and in the end, I believe it would make us better players than those mouthbreathers that always want an easy mode.

[Goldensaver]

K1D27H, on Jun 17 2011 - 05:52, said:

MisterLemons: I drive Panther as well, and I come to accept the fact that the devs are not going to do anything to change it anytime soon as it is not their precious tank. I cannot say for other Panther drivers but I make do with all the deficiencies and in the end, I believe it would make us better players than those mouthbreathers that always want an easy mode.

I try and make do, but sometimes I just can't help but rage and want to sell the damn thing. It's really annoying putting up with some of what happens in this thing.
And sure it makes us better players for it, but it would be nice to get a break from it.

[Belesarius]

Goldensaver, on Jun 17 2011 - 06:47, said:

I try and make do, but sometimes I just can't help but rage and want to sell the damn thing. It's really annoying putting up with some of what happens in this thing.
And sure it makes us better players for it, but it would be nice to get a break from it.

Just think about how its going to make playing the E50 seem like EZ mode.  :-)

[Goldensaver]

Belesarius, on Jun 17 2011 - 08:26, said:

Just think about how its going to make playing the E50 seem like EZ mode.  :-)

Man, I can't wait. That'll be a ton of fun. Rolling over the others in our awesome E50's, and all that fun!

[_Tracked_]

MisterLemons, on Jun 16 2011 - 01:30, said:

I wanna revise the picture a bit. Currently the engine hitbox is the WHOLE EFFING FRONT OF THE PANTHER. It extends from track to track, bottom to top of the hull.

Exactly. Check out this hit that caused an engine fire. Note what critical component wasn't damaged--even though it's actually located where the hit took place..



Really?