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The Chieftain's Hatch: The Battle of Munoz


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Content_WG #1 Posted May 02 2015 - 18:09

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General Douglas MacArthur intended to invade Luzon, the Philippine Islands, right where the Japanese had conducted their main landings in 1941.

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Tank3rDude #2 Posted May 02 2015 - 21:02

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Good read. Thanks Chieftan!

zloykrolik #3 Posted May 02 2015 - 22:39

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The Infantrys Armor by Harry Yeide is a good read. Especially the section on the Pacific covering the Amphibious Tractor (Amtrac) Bns & Amphibious Tank (Amtank) Bns.

 

I also enjoyed the sections about the 70th Armor. (as you can see by my avatar)



TheBattleMaster8 #4 Posted May 03 2015 - 02:09

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Now we need a Munoz map. :P

jakelives #5 Posted May 03 2015 - 07:29

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I would love any Philippines based map, whether Munoz or Manila. I'm biased that way, though.

elQuanto #6 Posted May 03 2015 - 08:32

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View PostTheBattleMaster8, on May 02 2015 - 20:09, said:

Now we need a Munoz map. :P

 

View Postjakelives, on May 03 2015 - 01:29, said:

I would love any Philippines based map, whether Munoz or Manila. I'm biased that way, though.

 

Oh how I would love this.

kanth66 #7 Posted May 03 2015 - 16:16

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Anyone notice that one of the first tanks to land was named "Snafu"? Because of Hollywood, I noticed people using the term "Fubar" a lot when referring to a tense situation with WW2 lingo. Many people who enjoy researching WW2 history, realize that this term was not accurate and is made up by Hollywood. The terms have similar meaning "Snafu" means "situational normal, all fucked up", but Fubar is "fucked up beyond all recognition". I have only heard this term used in Saving Private Ryan, and never in any historical novels I have read. I have seen the term "Snafu" used by Commonwealth armies and American troops very often. I find much more ironic humour to the Snafu term as well. Can anyone tell me the origin of the term "Fubar". Just as Hollywood used the term "Kraut" all the time, I have read that the allies respected the Germans very much, and the term "Gerry" was used most often to refer to the German soldier.

wylleEcoyote #8 Posted May 03 2015 - 19:31

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I had figured that FUBAR made its way into the lexicon during the 50's

 

What with the Korean war (still ongoing 60+ years later) yes it had a striking resemblance to WW2 in mistaken tactics, old equipment, and dis-organization lack of materiel and manpower. 

(the Normal amount of All Fucked Up)

 Spoiler

 

But with enough next level differences to make things weird enough to be unrecognizable to a grunt from 1939-42

this stopped being a "Situation" a while ago. and now life is Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Krinsath #9 Posted May 03 2015 - 19:44

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View Postkanth66, on May 03 2015 - 10:16, said:

Anyone notice that one of the first tanks to land was named "Snafu"? Because of Hollywood, I noticed people using the term "Fubar" a lot when referring to a tense situation with WW2 lingo. Many people who enjoy researching WW2 history, realize that this term was not accurate and is made up by Hollywood. The terms have similar meaning "Snafu" means "situational normal, all fucked up", but Fubar is "fucked up beyond all recognition". I have only heard this term used in Saving Private Ryan, and never in any historical novels I have read. I have seen the term "Snafu" used by Commonwealth armies and American troops very often. I find much more ironic humour to the Snafu term as well. Can anyone tell me the origin of the term "Fubar". Just as Hollywood used the term "Kraut" all the time, I have read that the allies respected the Germans very much, and the term "Gerry" was used most often to refer to the German soldier.

 

Allegedly the Oxford dictionary cites Yank Army Weekly of January 7th, 1944 as the first citation of FUBAR with a somewhat specific reference of page 8 of that issue (no mention of what edition though) as the name of a squadron which, assuming still US military, would imply aircraft. That's off the Internet though, so without being able to corroborate that I would take it with a pinch of salt. Someone who actually has access to archives of the magazine may be able to confirm/deny that, but my quick search for editions online didn't reveal anything.

 

Assuming that's accurate, it would likely mean that it had been in use by the troops for some time by then. Certainly conditions in the air war at that point would have given ample opportunity for such a phrase to be coined if it was a bomber squadron.



MajorKey #10 Posted May 03 2015 - 21:01

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Thanks Chief, another interesting article. "The Foo is strong with this one".

 

From the Font of All Wisdom (Wikipedia)...

"FUBAR stands for fucked up beyond all recognition/repair/reason, also Fouled-Up Beyond All Repair. Like SNAFU and SUSFU, it dates from World War II. The Oxford English Dictionary lists Yank, the Army Weekly magazine (1944, 7 Jan. p. 8) as its earliest citation: "The FUBAR squadron. ? FUBAR? It means 'Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition.""

 

Notice the "Fouled-up Beyond All Repair". As with any of our, er, unique military colloquialisms, slang had to be modified to protect the tender ears back home. F'rinstance, one of the slang terms for a B-52 is "BUF", Big Ugly [edited], usually translated for civilians as Big Ugly Fellow.

 

And now for something completely different: in computer programming the term "foobar" is commonly used as a variable placeholder. One finds it in old programs and documentation, especially from the Unix world, such as: foo=1939; bar=foo+6.

 

The earliest reference to military "foo" that I recall was that WWII American fighters and the early radar operators would call UFO's "Foo fighters". "Foo" originated from comic strip "Lil' Abner".

 

Finally, again from the Font:

"The word foo originated as a nonsense word from the 1930s, the military term FUBAR emerged in the 1940s, and the use of foo in a programming context is generally credited to the Tech Model Railroad Club (TMRC) of MIT from circa 1960.[9] However, the precise relationship of these terms is not known with certainty, and several anecdotal theories have been advanced to identify them."

 

mk

 


Edited by MajorKey, May 03 2015 - 21:27.


MajorKey #11 Posted May 03 2015 - 21:06

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View Postkanth66, on May 03 2015 - 15:16, said:

...
Just as Hollywood used the term "Kraut" all the time, I have read that the allies respected the Germans very much, and the term "Gerry" was used most often to refer to the German soldier.

 

According to Hollywood™, Kraut was an American term, and Gerry (US: Jerry) a British term.

 

"Schicklgruber" was popular, but in the barracks or back home. Not used in battle, of course: you'd get your schickl shot off before you got to gruber.

 

But I, too, wait for a canonical reply.


Edited by MajorKey, May 03 2015 - 21:58.


SoukouDragon #12 Posted May 03 2015 - 22:17

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Interesting read, thank you.

zloykrolik #13 Posted May 04 2015 - 00:32

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There is also TARFU, Things Are Really F*cked Up.

 

or Things Are Royally Fouled Up.


Edited by zloykrolik, May 04 2015 - 00:34.


Semper_Infidelis #14 Posted May 04 2015 - 01:36

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All of these little tidbits on Military Language and acronyms is good, but as to the Battle of Munoz... could we possibly see a map come from this? It would be interesting to see how the flanks could possible be exploited to bypass the layers of defenses through town. I think I'll look up a topo map of the area in question. Might be a worthy map/battle from the American point of view.

xX_THEWALL_Xx #15 Posted May 04 2015 - 18:42

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Judging by the map in the reading above, I think that a map would be really cool, especially if it was a smaller map with only town fighting, it would need different tactics to strategically "run dis town".

Audie_L_Murphy #16 Posted May 05 2015 - 19:26

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View PostMajorKey, on May 03 2015 - 12:01, said:

Thanks Chief, another interesting article. "The Foo is strong with this one".

 

From the Font of All Wisdom (Wikipedia)...

"FUBAR stands for fucked up beyond all recognition/repair/reason, also Fouled-Up Beyond All Repair. Like SNAFU and SUSFU, it dates from World War II. The Oxford English Dictionary lists Yank, the Army Weekly magazine (1944, 7 Jan. p. 8) as its earliest citation: "The FUBAR squadron. ? FUBAR? It means 'Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition.""

 

Notice the "Fouled-up Beyond All Repair". As with any of our, er, unique military colloquialisms, slang had to be modified to protect the tender ears back home. F'rinstance, one of the slang terms for a B-52 is "BUF", Big Ugly [edited], usually translated for civilians as Big Ugly Fellow.

 

And now for something completely different: in computer programming the term "foobar" is commonly used as a variable placeholder. One finds it in old programs and documentation, especially from the Unix world, such as: foo=1939; bar=foo+6.

 

The earliest reference to military "foo" that I recall was that WWII American fighters and the early radar operators would call UFO's "Foo fighters". "Foo" originated from comic strip "Lil' Abner".

 

Finally, again from the Font:

"The word foo originated as a nonsense word from the 1930s, the military term FUBAR emerged in the 1940s, and the use of foo in a programming context is generally credited to the Tech Model Railroad Club (TMRC) of MIT from circa 1960.[9] However, the precise relationship of these terms is not known with certainty, and several anecdotal theories have been advanced to identify them."

 

mk

 

 

When I was in the Air Force the B-52 was a BUFF (Big Ugly Fat "Fellow"-feel free to replace fellow with the correct word with -er at the end).


Edited by Audie_L_Murphy, May 05 2015 - 19:27.


The_Chieftain #17 Posted May 05 2015 - 21:30

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Not to forget its little counterpart, the A-7 SLUF

Sad_But_Drew #18 Posted May 12 2015 - 07:47

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View PostMajorKey, on May 03 2015 - 15:06, said:

 

According to Hollywood™, Kraut was an American term, and Gerry (US: Jerry) a British term.

 

"Schicklgruber" was popular, but in the barracks or back home. Not used in battle, of course: you'd get your schickl shot off before you got to gruber.

 

But I, too, wait for a canonical reply.

 

Schicklgruber (or in my bi-lingual Grandpa's letters home "Herr Schicklgruber") referred to Hitler (calling him a bastard, or at least the son of one in an indirect way).

 

Jerry came from the German WWI helmets, which apparently looked like chamber-pots (and I think there's some rhyming slang involved too)..  Of course, that was the NICE term.  When Douglas Bader was first introduced to Adolph Gallard (while a POW) the opening exchange went something like.

 

Gallard:  So you call us Jerries do you?

 

Bader:  No, we call you Huns.  (they did become good friends down the line).






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