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Frustrated by Panther


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Gochtune #1 Posted Jun 19 2011 - 15:00

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OK, so I'm new to German Medium that excel at sniping and so far, Panther is making me frustrated. Do any of you have a suggestion or idea or guide on how to drive this thing? I know that it's meant to snipe and so I did. I also feel that the armor and module protection is bad. Panther also suck my money dry  :( . I need some tips, tricks, or maybe strategy since this tank drives completely different than Tiger and King Tiger. I also want to know what modules that will fit this tank so I could perform better.

Teach me how to drive and win with this thing please...  :o

Goldensaver #2 Posted Jun 19 2011 - 15:13

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Since you say you are new to sniping mediums, I'd assume your Panther is mostly stock, because the stock tracks can't put anything on them. Even despite having almost everything unlocked from other tanks. Not that it makes a difference, the play style is the same.

Mainly, don't get shot. You are a great big module hit box. The engine is larger than you are. Fires are common as dirt. So as I said, don't get shot. Find a place really far away and try to use your superior accuracy and camo rating (okay, that part was just a joke).

Rammer, Ventilation, and Binocular Telescopes/Vertical Stabilizer/Coated Optics would be the modules I would use, if you can fit them. The last one is up to you, depending on what you want. The optic enhancements are for spotting that enemy at really good ranges, so hopefully you can weaken them before they get too close.

I don't know much else to say. Your armor is pretty insufficient, you take engine damage with almost any shot, fires are common, and you have a good gun. That about covers it. I guess you can say you're just a platform for the gun.

Gochtune #3 Posted Jun 19 2011 - 15:26

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View PostGoldensaver, on Jun 19 2011 - 15:13, said:

Since you say you are new to sniping mediums, I'd assume your Panther is mostly stock, because the stock tracks can't put anything on them. Even despite having almost everything unlocked from other tanks. Not that it makes a difference, the play style is the same.

Mainly, don't get shot. You are a great big module hit box. The engine is larger than you are. Fires are common as dirt. So as I said, don't get shot. Find a place really far away and try to use your superior accuracy and camo rating (okay, that part was just a joke).

Rammer, Ventilation, and Binocular Telescopes/Vertical Stabilizer/Coated Optics would be the modules I would use, if you can fit them. The last one is up to you, depending on what you want. The optic enhancements are for spotting that enemy at really good ranges, so hopefully you can weaken them before they get too close.

I don't know much else to say. Your armor is pretty insufficient, you take engine damage with almost any shot, fires are common, and you have a good gun. That about covers it. I guess you can say you're just a platform for the gun.
Thank you for your reply  :Smile_honoring:
My Panther is fully upgraded now, and yes, the armor is insufficient. It's like driving the old Tiger to the tier VIII battle, when each shot will penetrate and burn your tank.

I have the Rammer and the GLD, so should I sell my GLD and get the Vertical Stabilizer or stick with it and add the Vertical Stabilizer? And even the 5% Ventilation sounds little, it actually affect my crew.

About playstyle, I haven't figured it out. Do I have to snipe? Or to wolfpack? Since every part of my armor is non-existent. I can't bounce shots like King Tiger, I can't hold shots like Tiger (My Tiger have a habit, that a small caliber shots, even 75mm L/70 from afar will pen but do no damage at all. And it happen repeatedly.) and Panther seems to be washed with gasoline...

Anyway, thank you for your reply, guess I'll need to change my playstyle a bit...

Goldensaver #4 Posted Jun 19 2011 - 16:26

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I'm personally not fond of the GLD in the Panther, because at the back, even the slightest adjustment of angle affects your aim at the front a lot, and you should only have to aim ahead (assuming your team is competent, and doesn't leak tanks through like water through a broken dam). You can achieve better results, in my opinion with a Ventilator, because it affects accuracy, reload rate, and a few other things on top of what you have. I honestly don't have much of an opinion on what is that much better after ventilation, so if you have just the rammer and GLD, you can just throw in the Vents, and it'll probably be fine as is.

As far as playstyle, you can be a quite mobile tank, but use it to keep on your toes and dodge from bush to bush, keep your range, etc. You don't want to get in close with a big tank.

Vandelay #5 Posted Jun 19 2011 - 16:31

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The Panther has been one of my most successful vehicles so far (well over 100 battles, 64% win rate and 800 XP average). I find the gun to have really, really good penetration - in fact, I think we had this exact same discussion in the Tiger thread yesterday! (apologies if I sounded curt)

Basically, you never want to go first and you never want to go alone unless you are the highest and heaviest tank in the game, which rarely happens. Either follow your heavies, let them soak up the damage, and snipe from behind, or wolfpack with other mediums. If you wolfpack, let the Russian and American tanks go first.

Goldensaver's advice about never getting shot is good. If find if I am taking damage I have made a mistake in positioning. You should always try to position yourself so you're the hardest to hit out of everyone on your team. Make the enemy focus on your heavies. Use your range to your advantage.

The DB should have given you a lot of good practice at peek-a-boo tactics. Come out at a 45 degree angle and you will bounce a few shots should you get hit. Use a vertical stabilizer (as well as vent and rammer) in order to keep your gun accurate on the move and when peeking out. You're all about getting a quick, accurate shot off before they can even aim, then popping back into cover.

Overall, remember that YOU ARE NOT A FRONT LINE TANK. If you are the best target for the enemy, you are doing it wrong! Never make the mistake of thinking you can charge out and take hits. You can't, even against some lower tier tanks.

Good luck. I think with a bit more practice and perhaps a change in tactics you will come to really enjoy this tank. The Panther II is even better from what I hear.

Vandelay #6 Posted Jun 19 2011 - 16:45

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Also, one more thing I just thought of - you are fast! You do 50 km/h with good acceleration, and you're pretty agile for a medium. Use that to your advantage. You don't need to sit in one spot.

Enemies getting to close? About to be overrun? Turn around and run away, then continue sniping them from where they can't hit you.

Also, flank around the back of heavies. Even go for artillery occasionally. You are fast enough to do it all. On maps like Himmelsdorf, drive around behind the enemy, then pop shots in their rear. When they turn around, run away and flank again!

What fun!  :Smile-playing:

Embiggener #7 Posted Jun 20 2011 - 01:07

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Angling the front for peekaboo works good to bounce shots, but ONLY if you're not exposing your side.   If you do, over the course of a match you're going to get racked.  Or immediately, if the enemy knows what they're doing.

You really need the stabilizer for playing peekaboo if you actually want to avoid getting hit.

The stabilzer > GLD always.   With the stabilizer, you're already 20% partially aimed almost all the time - the one exception is if you're not moving and not turning the turret, which means you're already aimed anyways.   With the GLD, you just get 10% faster aiming, which sucks in comparison.

You can combine both but it's not really worth using the slot for that instead of something more important like a vent or a rammer.

If you have to take hits, don't angle too much.  Make the shots either hit your front or skip off the sides... you can't risk side hits.  That one thing combined with using the gun depression to hide part of the hull behind small terrain features got rid of most of my fires and rack hits.

Gochtune #8 Posted Jun 20 2011 - 04:45

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Thank you very much for all of your suggestion guys  :Smile_honoring:

Recently I try to change my playstyle and try -not- to get hit. However it's kinda hard with idiotic teams who didn't give a damn about the empty flank. I also found that hit and run with this tank is very good. I didn't challenge heavies 1 on 1 anymore and I'm more cautious now. If my team is losing I'll do as much damage as I can then run, because I can't afford the repair cost that was way too expensive for the inadequate armor. Anyway, I'm doing pretty good now though the learning curve from the German heavy tank to medium ones is kinda harsh, but I think it's manageable. Do anyone know when the Panther will be dropped a tier?

Cheers  :Smile_honoring:

*Note* : Do anyone notice that the accuracy of the Tiger 88mm L/71 and Panther 88mm L/71 is slightly different? I have 100% crew on both tanks and my Panther seems to miss a lot...

Goldensaver #9 Posted Jun 20 2011 - 15:37

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View PostGochtune, on Jun 20 2011 - 04:45, said:

Recently I try to change my playstyle and try -not- to get hit. However it's kinda hard with idiotic teams who didn't give a damn about the empty flank.

Do anyone know when the Panther will be dropped a tier?
Yeah, sometimes you just hate that team who all goes one way, leaves the other way alone and leaves it to you to defend. In that case I say do what you can, but don't stress when you get yourself killed. I do it all the time. One tank can only do so much.

As far as the tier drop, it's going to happen in patch 6.6, which is coming up late July. Link here.

Gochtune #10 Posted Jun 20 2011 - 16:04

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View PostGoldensaver, on Jun 20 2011 - 15:37, said:

Yeah, sometimes you just hate that team who all goes one way, leaves the other way alone and leaves it to you to defend. In that case I say do what you can, but don't stress when you get yourself killed. I do it all the time. One tank can only do so much.

As far as the tier drop, it's going to happen in patch 6.6, which is coming up late July. Link here.
Wow, I think it's a long time.
Anyway, I hope if they put down Panther a tier, they'll fix the bug and re-adjust it. Particularly the repair cost.

Thanks for your information Goldensaver :Smile_honoring:

Elf #11 Posted Jun 20 2011 - 16:45

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Keep at it Gochtune, the grind to the Panther II is worth it. And there is a lot of fun to be had playing the Panther. I know, I just finished my 285 battle grind to the Panther II this morning.   :Smile_honoring:

salesninja #12 Posted Jun 20 2011 - 17:03

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I was in the same boat with this tank.  I plyed it liek I was playign with my db, fairly agressivly.  I was at 33% victories in game.  Now I'm really close to 50% and climbing.  THe secret?  accepting the fact that you are a glass cannon. You have a really good potential to see the enemy before they see you (460m view on good turet) You do not want to be anywhere near the enemy.  Skirt at the maximum possible range behind your buddies.  If you dont have friends with you Fire one time and retreat.  Reload and fire again from a diffrent position.  The second you take fire fall back as quickly as you can. Your gun is not a good one for trading shots withthe enemy.  Its more like a surgeons scapel, not a claymore.  You penetrate often but you will not devastate the enemy in one shot.  You will not be able to hold a line against any equivalant tiered tank in a one on one brawl.  Even if you do kill them, you will probably take more damage than you hand out.  

I personally run the Vent, the optics and the stabilizer.  Why no rammer?  I don't think its really needed if you are playing to your tanks strengths.  I would rather have extended view range and the 20% accuracy while moving/turning.  You sould be moving a lot.

Latley I have been thinking about changing equipment to cammo net, Binocs, and vents.  Hate having to sit still for 6 seconds to get the benefit though...

Armor #13 Posted Jun 20 2011 - 17:20

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View Postsalesninja, on Jun 20 2011 - 17:03, said:

Latley I have been thinking about changing equipment to cammo net, Binocs, and vents.  Hate having to sit still for 6 seconds to get the benefit though...
I think it's a damn fine setup for any sniping tank, from PanzerIV onwards! :)
Yes, the 6 seconds does suck.
Binocs are one of the best pieces of gear in the game, imo. Combined with the already great visiblity the German mediums have, you should always have the first shot if you're doing it right.

Gochtune #14 Posted Jun 20 2011 - 18:05

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View PostElf, on Jun 20 2011 - 16:45, said:

Keep at it Gochtune, the grind to the Panther II is worth it. And there is a lot of fun to be had playing the Panther. I know, I just finished my 285 battle grind to the Panther II this morning.   :Smile_honoring:
Congratulations then, people said that the 105 on the Panther II is one of the best guns out there. Their armor is better too.
Wolfpack with other mediums is the most enjoyable thing I've ever had. I've been a heavy tank driver for a long time and getting my tank pouned by a group of mediums is stressing me out. Now I can do the same to them  :P.  

View Postsalesninja, on Jun 20 2011 - 17:03, said:

I was in the same boat with this tank.  I plyed it liek I was playign with my db, fairly agressivly.  I was at 33% victories in game.  Now I'm really close to 50% and climbing.  THe secret?  accepting the fact that you are a glass cannon. You have a really good potential to see the enemy before they see you (460m view on good turet) You do not want to be anywhere near the enemy.  Skirt at the maximum possible range behind your buddies.  If you dont have friends with you Fire one time and retreat.  Reload and fire again from a diffrent position.  The second you take fire fall back as quickly as you can. Your gun is not a good one for trading shots withthe enemy.  Its more like a surgeons scapel, not a claymore.  You penetrate often but you will not devastate the enemy in one shot.  You will not be able to hold a line against any equivalant tiered tank in a one on one brawl.  Even if you do kill them, you will probably take more damage than you hand out.  

I personally run the Vent, the optics and the stabilizer.  Why no rammer?  I don't think its really needed if you are playing to your tanks strengths.  I would rather have extended view range and the 20% accuracy while moving/turning.  You sould be moving a lot.

Latley I have been thinking about changing equipment to cammo net, Binocs, and vents.  Hate having to sit still for 6 seconds to get the benefit though...
Thanks for your suggestion, will put that into a note.  :Smile_honoring:  
Panther mobility is good for a medium, and put a Vertical Stablizer makes shooting even easier. The only thing that I can't stand is the repair cost and the fires. My KT also burn more now.  :huh:

So, if I'm alone I'll need a possible escape route for a hit and run tactics?

salesninja #15 Posted Jun 20 2011 - 21:58

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Pretty much.  

I could see arguments for the gun laying drive over vertical stabilizer, but the aim time on a panter with 100% crew is really fast, 10 of 2 seconds seems less impressive to a 20% overall increase to accuracy every time you move or you move your turret.

Also I would mention that you are a huge target.  Your height can be an advantage if you use it correctly, but if you dont, you are a really easy target to hit.  Peek over a low rolintg hill and fire, scoot back, reload.  A lot of times they cant even get a shot at you.   :Smile-hiding:

Embiggener #16 Posted Jun 21 2011 - 04:24

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View Postsalesninja, on Jun 20 2011 - 21:58, said:

Pretty much.  

I could see arguments for the gun laying drive over vertical stabilizer, but the aim time on a panter with 100% crew is really fast, 10 of 2 seconds seems less impressive to a 20% overall increase to accuracy every time you move or you move your turret.

Also I would mention that you are a huge target.  Your height can be an advantage if you use it correctly, but if you dont, you are a really easy target to hit.  Peek over a low rolintg hill and fire, scoot back, reload.  A lot of times they cant even get a shot at you.   :Smile-hiding:

You're looking at it a bit backwards.  It's not just a 20% increase to accuracy... it's ~20% faster to being fully aimed, because that's 20% of your aiming you don't have to do (assuming the aiming happens linearly).  This is double the 10% faster aiming with the GLD, of course.  Big difference.

Goldensaver #17 Posted Jun 21 2011 - 10:15

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View Postsalesninja, on Jun 20 2011 - 21:58, said:

Also I would mention that you are a huge target.  Your height can be an advantage if you use it correctly, but if you dont, you are a really easy target to hit.  Peek over a low rolintg hill and fire, scoot back, reload.  A lot of times they cant even get a shot at you.   :Smile-hiding:
Just remembered this fact, I've placed my Panther next to other tanks, mediums and heavies, and it is quite a large tank. The Panther is big, fat, and tall. Use this to your advantage, yet always consider it a disadvantage. You're big, an easy target. Use cover.

However, I've found lots of places where you're just tall enough to stick your gun out over a rock, or a bump in the terrain. It can be very useful to only show the top of your turret, and fling rounds at advancing enemies. It works well. Just know that once they get to you, it's over. So you might want to be gone before then, if you can't stop them before they get there.

Gochtune #18 Posted Jun 21 2011 - 11:26

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View Postsalesninja, on Jun 20 2011 - 21:58, said:

Pretty much.  

Also I would mention that you are a huge target.  Your height can be an advantage if you use it correctly, but if you dont, you are a really easy target to hit.  Peek over a low rolintg hill and fire, scoot back, reload.  A lot of times they cant even get a shot at you.   :Smile-hiding:

View PostGoldensaver, on Jun 21 2011 - 10:15, said:

Just remembered this fact, I've placed my Panther next to other tanks, mediums and heavies, and it is quite a large tank. The Panther is big, fat, and tall. Use this to your advantage, yet always consider it a disadvantage. You're big, an easy target. Use cover.

However, I've found lots of places where you're just tall enough to stick your gun out over a rock, or a bump in the terrain. It can be very useful to only show the top of your turret, and fling rounds at advancing enemies. It works well. Just know that once they get to you, it's over. So you might want to be gone before then, if you can't stop them before they get there.
My tank size actually, sometimes can be an advantage but sometimes not. Once I was sniping at the hill at El Halluf, and it turns out that they can't even place an accurate shots on my turret! After my advancing team was annihilated there, I'm relocating away on a steep hill and realize that my gun can't depress low enough to engage them. I'm forced to do shoot-and-scoot behind our IS-7 but they target me more than the IS-7  :blink: .

I also realize that 1 rear shot is enough to ammorack you. The emplacement of the ammorack location seems obvious to everyone, or maybe the hitbox is too large. So does the engine. If I get shot, I'm toast. It's like there's nothing between the incoming shell and your engine. So it's like Goldensaver said, if they find me that means I'm pretty much dead.

One thing that amazes me from Panther is the mobility. This tank can run fast and when the enemy is about to get close, I can run away fast and the enemy won't even have a chance to shoot at me. Back in my Tiger, if I'm spotted that means it's over, I mean 30Km/h for maximum speed and 8 Km/h reverse speed? How the hell could I run with that?! Reposition also means nothing in this tank. I won't have enough time to get there except someone ask me to go there before the combat started (which proves effective yet deadly, I can't run from that situation too.) :angry:.

Last night, I was in Malinovka. Me and my teammates are advancing through the hill, and found out that the hill has been captured. There's a VK3601H, T-43, T-44, T29 there. I try to stay back as far away as I can and keep shooting'em. Then their advanced heavies who finally manage to reach the hill destroyed half of our heavies that was badly damaged. I run back to the church and hid at the forest behind it and ask our friendly King Tiger to spot target for me from the church. We eventually defeat their advancing heavies and win the match. A thing that can't be possible in my Tiger, due to it's slow speed.

Goldensaver #19 Posted Jun 21 2011 - 17:31

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View PostGochtune, on Jun 21 2011 - 11:26, said:

My tank size actually, sometimes can be an advantage but sometimes not. Once I was sniping at the hill at El Halluf, and it turns out that they can't even place an accurate shots on my turret! After my advancing team was annihilated there, I'm relocating away on a steep hill and realize that my gun can't depress low enough to engage them. I'm forced to do shoot-and-scoot behind our IS-7 but they target me more than the IS-7  :blink: .

I also realize that 1 rear shot is enough to ammorack you. The emplacement of the ammorack location seems obvious to everyone, or maybe the hitbox is too large. So does the engine. If I get shot, I'm toast. It's like there's nothing between the incoming shell and your engine. So it's like Goldensaver said, if they find me that means I'm pretty much dead.

One thing that amazes me from Panther is the mobility. This tank can run fast and when the enemy is about to get close, I can run away fast and the enemy won't even have a chance to shoot at me. Back in my Tiger, if I'm spotted that means it's over, I mean 30Km/h for maximum speed and 8 Km/h reverse speed? How the hell could I run with that?! Reposition also means nothing in this tank. I won't have enough time to get there except someone ask me to go there before the combat started (which proves effective yet deadly, I can't run from that situation too.) :angry:.

Last night, I was in Malinovka. Me and my teammates are advancing through the hill, and found out that the hill has been captured. There's a VK3601H, T-43, T-44, T29 there. I try to stay back as far away as I can and keep shooting'em. Then their advanced heavies who finally manage to reach the hill destroyed half of our heavies that was badly damaged. I run back to the church and hid at the forest behind it and ask our friendly King Tiger to spot target for me from the church. We eventually defeat their advancing heavies and win the match. A thing that can't be possible in my Tiger, due to it's slow speed.
Yeah, the hitboxes are just big. And overlap. This is a picture somebody made based on what I am assuming is just estimates, and though I'm assuming it's not the greatest picture, it's not that far off. It seems quite accurate.
Spoiler                     

And yes, the gun depression on the Shcmalturm is quite low, so you really have to watch where you go. If you get tracked on a slight bump or slope, you can just get hammered without fear of retaliation, if the enemy is in the right place.

And use cover to your advantage, you are larger than a lot of tanks, so if you find a tank husk, you can probably park behind it and use it as adequate cover for your hull, allowing only your turret to show. And turrets are pretty small, and quite armored, so that isn't necessarily a bad thing. But of course, it doesn't save you from artillery.

Gochtune #20 Posted Jun 22 2011 - 09:53

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View PostGoldensaver, on Jun 21 2011 - 17:31, said:

Yeah, the hitboxes are just big. And overlap. This is a picture somebody made based on what I am assuming is just estimates, and though I'm assuming it's not the greatest picture, it's not that far off. It seems quite accurate.
Spoiler                     

And yes, the gun depression on the Shcmalturm is quite low, so you really have to watch where you go. If you get tracked on a slight bump or slope, you can just get hammered without fear of retaliation, if the enemy is in the right place.

And use cover to your advantage, you are larger than a lot of tanks, so if you find a tank husk, you can probably park behind it and use it as adequate cover for your hull, allowing only your turret to show. And turrets are pretty small, and quite armored, so that isn't necessarily a bad thing. But of course, it doesn't save you from artillery.
Even if the Schmalturm is quite armored, it didn't save me from the 105 or up round. It saves me from the small one, which turns out to be quite ridiculous. However, in rare cases my Schmalturm bounce IS-3 BL-9 at close range. Weird.

I know that I can't whine about Panther armor, but when I'm forced to engage a target on close range (Which is inevitable due to my teammates that was sometimes half dumb and half smart) I'll lose about half or more HP. Either it because of fire, ammorack, damaging shots or anything.

There is a case when at a match, I'm sniping from afar and damage most of my enemy. Then all of a sudden, a derp-PzIII (Yes, PzIII) roll down from the hill beside me, hit my fuel tank and set me on fire. I'm burned down to death. I use consumables too, but it didn't stop the fire from spreading. I was like wtf  :(

As for the arty, I found that the arty was not a nuisance in Panther. Mobility of Panther defeats the arty in every way. I can dodge shells now, it's a happy time in Panther.  :D

Note : The size is just... not right. If that's the hitbox, that means Panther really need a buff.




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