Jump to content


Artillery Reality Check

arty

  • Please log in to reply
567 replies to this topic

Poll: A poll for fun (612 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 100 battle in order to participate this poll.

Arty

  1. I greatly dislike it. (276 votes [45.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.10%

  2. I dislike it. (69 votes [11.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.27%

  3. I am neutral (87 votes [14.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.22%

  4. I like it. (86 votes [14.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.05%

  5. I greatly like it. (94 votes [15.36%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.36%

Vote Hide poll

Cinphul #1 Posted May 06 2015 - 17:51

    Major

  • Players
  • 36507 battles
  • 5,395
  • Member since:
    07-07-2012

This thread is to address many of the claims made against arty - for those that hate arty no matter what, and have a closed mind to things like thinking, please just click the  and move on.

 

Arty is all / mostly RNG
When it comes to aiming and accuracy, arty uses the exact same RNG mechanics as every other vehicle in the game, so arty does not have worse RNG than any other vehicle.  However, arty does typically have worse accuracy, and it shoots at targets much further away (typically 700+ meters), which causes arty to hit less, which gives it the appearance of bad RNG. 

 

To compensate for this, arty mostly shoots HE rounds that cause splash damage that typically has a larger radius for arty with worse accuracy.  So an SPG with bad accuracy will typically have a larger splash radius then an SPG with better (relatively speaking) accuracy.  This is so that the SPG that will miss more due to poor accuracy, will still do damage through splash.

 

This creates a problem - judging arty based on hit rate ignores splash damage, which can be a large portion of the damage arty does, especially for higher tier arty.

 

 

For example, the typical hit rate for arty is around 35%, while the typical hit rate for tanks is around 70%.  This a big difference, to say the least, and no doubt the reason arty is seen as all RNG.  However, arty tends to miss the target, but do splash damage around 30% of the time, and while these shots do damage, they don't count as hits.  Further, while normal tanks do hit very often, they also frequently bounce, doing no damage.  This varies widely depending on tier and penetration, but even if the shot hits but doesn't pen, it's still counted as a hit.

 

So a sizable portion of damaging splash shots aren't counted as hits for arty, while non-damaging bounced shots for other vehicles types are counted as hits.

 

The point here is that arty does not hit as much as other vehicles, but it does cause damage generally as much as other vehicles do.

 

Arty's alpha is too high

Arty does have very high alpha... but due to it's low pen, most shots, even direct hits, result in non-penetrating splash damage, which is half or less of the alpha for the gun.  So yes, the alpha is very high, but no, it's not reflective of the real damage done by most shots because penetrating, full damage shots aren't very common.  As well, this is off-set by arty's very low rate of fire.

 

The problem, of course, is that while most shots do half damage or less, there are those shots that do pen and do tremendous damage.  These are common enough to be annoying, and I suspect this is the mechanic WG is working on when they say they are working on arty.

 

Arty one shots

This is the quintessential mountain out of a molehill argument - yes, arty can indeed one shot, but it happens so rarely that to mention it as an argument against arty is at best embellishment.  It's just very hard to seriously address something that is so infrequent.

 

Arty hits fast moving targets

This argument is based on the false premise that arty should never be able to hit a fast moving vehicle, as though the rounds should be forced to miss if the enemy tanks is moving X speed or faster. 

 

The reality is that fast moving tanks move around freely with little or no risk from arty unless they are predictable in their movements.  The problem isn't the arty - it takes around 15 seconds for arty to aim in on a specific spot, and any adjustments cause some reticle bloom.  So for arty to have a reasonable chance of hitting a target, that target needs to be following a pattern either of their own creation, or as in most cases, following in the footsteps of everyone else.  An example of following in the footsteps is racing along the edge of the center ridge on Prokhorovka - everyone does it, and arty aims up for it and only needs to time their shot correct.

 

Arty causes camping

It's simple math - there are typically 13 to 14 enemy tanks on the enemy team, and only 1 or 2 enemy arty - those one or two vehicles represent only a minor threat compared to the 13 or 14 tanks.  So when players are hiding behind a rock or refuse to cross an open field, it's far more likely they are staying safe from the enemy tanks, then from the enemy arty.  And in fact, while playing arty, I regularly see players take positions that are safe from the tanks on my team, while leaving themselves completely exposed to my shots.  This is because they know the tanks on the other side of the field will kill them a lot faster then I will if they expose their tank.

 

Arty doesn't prevent camping

Of course arty prevents camping - some areas of the map are more challenging to use when there is arty in the game - you can't camp them as effectively because arty will target you if you try.  For example, certain strong turret / good gun depression tanks can go hull down over gently rolling hills that offer great cover vs enemy tanks, but very little cover vs enemy arty.  Because arty takes around 15 seconds to aim in, and has 30+ second reloads, these tanks are able to use these spots advantageously, but arty does prevent them from camping there for long periods of time.

 

Arty slows the game down

When there are too many arty in the game, yes, it does slow the game down - 4 or 5 arty per side is detrimental to overall gameplay, but such games are the exception, not the rule - most games have 1 to 2 arty, and in these games, arty has very little impact on how people play.  I know this because when I do play arty, I constantly see enemy tanks playing and fighting in open, exposed positions despite there being arty in the game.  When there's 4 or 5, however, the dynamic does indeed change for the worse.

 

The CGC can hit anything, anywhere

While the CGC does have higher arc than other arty, it most certainly can not hit anywhere. 

 

I went onto the Kharkov map and loaded up each of the tier 10 arty and parked them as deep into the bottom left corner as I possibly could, then aimed just beyond a specific building about 600m away on the red line.  This chart shows the difference between the different tier 10 arty I have:

Spoiler

 

As you can see, while the CGC does have better arc, it certainly can't render the cover that building provides useless.  If you look at the top edge of each picture, you'll see there is only an 8m difference (at 600m range) between the best arc CGC and the worse arc 155-xx.  Now admittedly, I don't have any of the worst arc tier 10 arty, but it is safe to say that the CGC does not render most or all cover worthless.

 

Arty is broken

A broken game mechanic is something that is so good, or so bad, that you are compelled to use it, or avoid it, based solely on it's performance.  Prior to the 8.6 patch, arty was demonstrably broken - it was so effective that the best and easiest way to influence a game was to play it.
 
However, statistics show that arty most certainly is not over or under performing compared to other tank types, so there is no compelling performance reason to play or avoid arty.  
 
Arty is different, not broken.  It has different mechanics, from the view system, to the arc of rounds to the range, arty is different.  But despite these differences, it does not out-perform other tank types.
 
Stats like survival rate are irrelevant - living longer does not mean you do more damage or win more, while damage dealt does.
 
Arty cap is proof it's flawed
The arty cap is proof that arty is a support mechanic.  It's limited for the exact same reason the number of rounds in a grenade launcher is limited to two in CoD - if it weren't, the game would fundamentally change.  That said, the arty cap could be lifted right now and nobody would notice because games with 5 arty are so absurdly rare, games would 6 almost unheard of.
 

Arty isn't fun

This is opinion.  I enjoy playing arty, and I enjoy getting into enemy lines and destroying it, so I enjoy playing against it as well.  Getting hit by arty isn't fun, certainly, but I never enjoy getting hit by any enemy tank, so it's no surprise that arty is no different.  Bottom line - the claim that arty isn't fun to play / play against is purely opinion, and not everybody agrees with your opinion.


Edited by Cinphul, May 07 2015 - 04:59.


Ecksdeee #2 Posted May 06 2015 - 17:52

    Major

  • Players
  • 17275 battles
  • 10,308
  • [WRPCK] WRPCK
  • Member since:
    04-06-2012

View PostCinphul, on May 06 2015 - 17:51, said:

This thread is to address many of the claims made against arty - for those that hate arty no matter what, and have a closed mind to things like thinking, please just click the down vote  and move on.

 

Arty is all / mostly RNG
When it comes to aiming and accuracy, arty uses the exact same RNG mechanics as every other vehicle in the game, so arty does not have worse RNG than any other vehicle.  However, arty does typically have worse accuracy, and it shoots at targets much further away (typically 700+ meters), which causes arty to hit less, which gives it the appearance of bad RNG. 

 

To compensate for this, arty mostly shoots HE rounds that cause splash damage that typically has a larger radius for arty with worse accuracy.  So an SPG with bad accuracy will typically have a larger splash radius then an SPG with better (relatively speaking) accuracy.  This is so that the SPG that will miss more due to poor accuracy, will still do damage through splash.

 

This creates a problem - judging arty based on hit rate ignores splash damage, which can be a large portion of the damage arty does, especially for higher tier arty.

 

 

For example, the typical hit rate for arty is around 35%, while the typical hit rate for tanks is around 70%.  This a big difference, to say the least, and no doubt the reason arty is seen as all RNG.  However, arty tends to miss the target, but do splash damage around 30% of the time, and while these shots do damage, they don't count as hits.  Further, while normal tanks do hit very often, they also frequently bounce, doing no damage.  This varies widely depending on tier and penetration, but even if the shot hits but doesn't pen, it's still counted as a hit.

 

So a sizable portion of damaging splash shots aren't counted as hits for arty, while non-damaging bounced shots for other vehicles types are counted as hits.

 

The point here is that arty does not hit as much as other vehicles, but it does cause damage generally as much as other vehicles do.

 

Arty's alpha is too high

Arty does have very high alpha... but due to it's low pen, most shots, even direct hits, result in non-penetrating splash damage, which is half or less of the alpha for the gun.  So yes, the alpha is very high, but no, it's not reflective of the real damage done by most shots because penetrating, full damage shots aren't very common.  As well, this is off-set by arty's very low rate of fire.

 

The problem, of course, is that while most shots do half damage or less, there are those shots that do pen and do tremendous damage.  These are common enough to be annoying, and I suspect this is the mechanic WG is working on when they say they are working on arty.

 

Arty one shots

This is the quintessential mountain out of a molehill argument - yes, arty can indeed one shot, but it happens so rarely that to mention it as an argument against arty is at best embellishment.  It's just very hard to seriously address something that is so infrequent.

 

Arty hits fast moving targets

This argument is based on the false premise that arty should never be able to hit a fast moving vehicle, as though the rounds should be forced to miss if the enemy tanks is moving X speed or faster. 

 

The reality is that fast moving tanks move around freely with little or no risk from arty unless they are predictable in their movements.  The problem isn't the arty - it takes around 15 seconds for arty to aim in on a specific spot, and any adjustments cause some reticle bloom.  So for arty to have a reasonable chance of hitting a target, that target needs to be following a pattern either of their own creation, or as in most cases, following in the footsteps of everyone else.  An example of following in the footsteps is racing along the edge of the center ridge on Prokhorovka - everyone does it, and arty aims up for it and only needs to time their shot correct.

 

Arty causes camping

It's simple math - there are typically 13 to 14 enemy tanks on the enemy team, and only 1 or 2 enemy arty - those one or two vehicles represent only a minor threat compared to the 13 or 14 tanks.  So when players are hiding behind a rock or refuse to cross an open field, it's far more likely they are staying safe from the enemy tanks, then from the enemy arty.  And in fact, while playing arty, I regularly see players take positions that are safe from the tanks on my team, while leaving themselves completely exposed to my shots.  This is because they know the tanks on the other side of the field will kill them a lot faster then I will if they expose their tank.

 

Arty doesn't prevent camping

Of course arty prevents camping - some areas of the map are more challenging to use when there is arty in the game - you can't camp them as effectively because arty will target you if you try.  For example, certain strong turret / good gun depression tanks can go hull down over gently rolling hills that offer great cover vs enemy tanks, but very little cover vs enemy arty.  Because arty takes around 15 seconds to aim in, and has 30+ second reloads, these tanks are able to use these spots advantageously, but arty does prevent them from camping there for long periods of time.

 

Arty slows the game down

When there are too many arty in the game, yes, it does slow the game down - 4 or 5 arty per side is detrimental to overall gameplay, but such games are the exception, not the rule - most games have 1 to 2 arty, and in these games, arty has very little impact on how people play.  I know this because when I do play arty, I constantly see enemy tanks playing and fighting in open, exposed positions despite there being arty in the game.  When there's 4 or 5, however, the dynamic does indeed change for the worse.

 

The CGC can hit anything, anywhere

While the CGC does have higher arc than other arty, it most certainly can not hit anywhere. 

 

I went onto the Kharkov map and loaded up each of the tier 10 arty and parked them as deep into the bottom left corner as I possibly could, then aimed just beyond a specific building about 600m away on the red line.  This chart shows the difference between the different tier 10 arty I have:

Spoiler

 

As you can see, while the CGC does have better arc, it certainly can't render the cover that building provides useless.  If you look at the top edge of each picture, you'll see there is only an 8m difference (at 600m range) between the best arc CGC and the worse arc 155-xx.  Now admittedly, I don't have any of the worst arc tier 10 arty, but it is safe to say that the CGC does not render most or all cover worthless.

 

Arty is broken

A broken game mechanic is something that is so good, or so bad, that you are compelled to use it, or avoid it, based solely on it's performance.  Prior to the 8.6 patch, arty was demonstrably broken - it was so effective that the best and easiest way to influence a game was to play it.
 
However, statistics show that arty most certainly is not over or under performing compared to other tank types, so there is no compelling performance reason to play or avoid arty.  
 
Arty is different, not broken.  It has different mechanics, from the view system, to the arc of rounds to the range, arty is different.  But despite these differences, it does not out-perform other tank types.
 
Stats like survival rate are irrelevant - living longer does not mean you do more damage or win more, while damage dealt does.
 

Arty isn't fun

This is opinion.  I enjoy playing arty, and I enjoy getting into enemy lines and destroying it, so I enjoy playing against it as well.  Getting hit by arty isn't fun, certainly, but I never enjoy getting hit by any enemy tank, so it's no surprise that arty is no different.  Bottom line - the claim that arty isn't fun to play / play against is purely opinion, and not everybody agrees with your opinion.

 

I heard you like reposting stuff that's been said thousands of times already.

JoreyK #3 Posted May 06 2015 - 17:54

    Captain

  • Players
  • 22672 battles
  • 1,005
  • Member since:
    02-10-2015


Blackhorse_Six_ #4 Posted May 06 2015 - 17:55

    Major

  • Players
  • 48583 battles
  • 10,030
  • [HHT] HHT
  • Member since:
    03-19-2011

View Postshadowhazcookie, on May 06 2015 - 11:52, said:

I heard you like reposting stuff that's been said thousands of times already.

 

Did you really need to quote it all over again in it's entirety for post #2:sceptic:



Xerosic #5 Posted May 06 2015 - 17:55

    Major

  • Players
  • 11624 battles
  • 7,489
  • Member since:
    06-02-2011
I can pretend I read this.

Nachoo31 #6 Posted May 06 2015 - 17:55

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 12623 battles
  • 104
  • [KMS] KMS
  • Member since:
    06-07-2011
Love arti but hate the reload timers.  Even with Rammers.

Strike_Witch_Tomoko #7 Posted May 06 2015 - 17:55

    Major

  • Players
  • 15574 battles
  • 12,568
  • Member since:
    05-04-2013

all i'll say is

arty 1 shots happens ALOT more than you think.

 

i play mediums which might be a cause of it.

 

but in the past 7 games i've played. 5 have had arty.

and 4/5 of the ones with arty have had arty kill me due to thier alpha.  

2 of them were 1 shots.  (WZ-120 and T-62a)

and the other 2 i was above 80% hp and lost all the rest to arty. (T-34-3 and FCM50t)

3 of the deaths to them i was moving at speeds of 40km/h or higher 


Edited by Amberpaw, May 06 2015 - 17:56.


Cinphul #8 Posted May 06 2015 - 17:56

    Major

  • Players
  • 36507 battles
  • 5,395
  • Member since:
    07-07-2012

View Postshadowhazcookie, on May 06 2015 - 11:52, said:

I heard you like reposting stuff that's been said thousands of times already.

 

I don't care if you don't like my post, but quoting the whole thing is just stupid.

Kramburglar #9 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:00

    Major

  • Players
  • 28726 battles
  • 5,756
  • Member since:
    12-18-2011

View PostCinphul, on May 06 2015 - 11:51, said:

 

Arty is broken

A broken game mechanic is something that is so good, or so bad, that you are compelled to use it, or avoid it, based solely on it's performance.  Prior to the 8.6 patch, arty was demonstrably broken - it was so effective that the best and easiest way to influence a game was to play it.

No, what you are describing is overpowered and underpowered. 

 

A broken mechanic is a mechanic that doesn't work within the structure of the game.  A mechanic that, for example, is so RNG dependent that the same exact shot taken twice in a row could have one miss entirely and the other oneshot a full HP tank tiers higher than it



N00BSAIB0T #10 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:01

    Major

  • Beta Testers
  • 60710 battles
  • 4,886
  • [-G-] -G-
  • Member since:
    01-14-2011

You guys need to learn when to quit. You lost, it's over. Pack it up and go home. WG wouldn't be looking at a complete arty rebalance later this year if the dumb thing was working as intended. This is what, artillery's 4th or 5th major nerf/rebalance that we're looking at now? Take a hint.

 

Thank goodness for competition. The other game is forcing WG's hand to do this. They listened to the "vocal minority" here and changed things up over there.

 

Enjoy the slot machine of death while it lasts. It'll be fun seeing WG stumble around to fix this flawed mechanic.

 

You might get some more luck in the Newbie forums with this thread.



Audie_L_Murphy #11 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:09

    Major

  • Players
  • 56677 battles
  • 5,657
  • [FGTVE] FGTVE
  • Member since:
    11-27-2012

I like matches better without arty.  However, arty is part of the game & players that choose to use it should be allowed to use it.  I will be thrilled when WOT finally fixes arty & it's not the "gods-eye" view...finger of death.

If you look at the stats, arty is less effective than "normal" tanks.

If you look at the ISU-152, it can blast players for a ton of damage on 1 shot.  It can 1 shot most lower tier tanks.  It's kinda like arty...EXCEPT players can return fire on the ISU-152.

Arty sitting 700m from the battle, clicking & getting RNG chances to ruin games is one of the things players hate.

Take this example, you have a basketball game.  5 players on each side working their butts off trying to defend and attack the other team.  Now add 1 guy for each side in the stands tossing stun grenades on the court...that is arty.


Edited by Audie_L_Murphy, May 06 2015 - 18:10.


Cinphul #12 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:09

    Major

  • Players
  • 36507 battles
  • 5,395
  • Member since:
    07-07-2012

View PostKramburglar, on May 06 2015 - 12:00, said:

No, what you are describing is overpowered and underpowered. 

 

A broken mechanic is a mechanic that doesn't work within the structure of the game.  A mechanic that, for example, is so RNG dependent that the same exact shot taken twice in a row could have one miss entirely and the other oneshot a full HP tank tiers higher than it

 

Underpowered and overpowered are what define broken.  This "within the structure of the game" is hogflossinutter, which means you are literally making up what you want broken to be so that you can call arty broken.  "Within the structure of the game" is what WG defines as the structure of the game - this isn't a combat simulator, it's an arcade game, and they can add lasers if they'd like, and it would be within the structure because they determine what the structure is.  The problem here is that you don't like the structure, which is fine, but that does not mean it's at all broken, it's just something you disagree with.

 

As well, your claim that it is "so RNG dependent" is classic misrepresentation - arty uses the exact same RNG mechanics as every other vehicle in the game.  But again, we have an example that presents the absurdly rare one shot as the norm, which is no where near true. 



indoctrinated #13 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:14

    Major

  • Players
  • 20187 battles
  • 2,173
  • Member since:
    05-22-2012
I agree that one-shots are fairly rare for most artillery, but from playing the Conqueror GC they're much more common (I think that's the only exception and I chalk it up to the high shell arc).
Fast moving targets are indeed not easy to target with artillery, though in some maps they're not hard to hit (maps like Cliff, El Halluf focus these tanks into small areas that aren't hard to hit).
I don't think it's artillery itself causes camping,, it's just the fear of getting hit for such a huge chunk of health causes people to camp.
For preventing camping, if the enemies are using hull-down tactics you can hit them, but players behind steep hills and cliffs are safe from most arty (though not the infamous British arty).
Definitely agree that the Conq GC's shell arc is a bit exaggerated, though I think you picked a bad example. No artillery is really able to hit behind buildings, these high arc artillery are more useful for steep hills/cliffs/people behind short cover. It should also be noted that this arc lets them perform well on any map you get, even Himmelsdorf and Kharkov (very bad in most arty).
 

Blackhorse_Six_ #14 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:16

    Major

  • Players
  • 48583 battles
  • 10,030
  • [HHT] HHT
  • Member since:
    03-19-2011

We believe that Artillery has a place in the game, but not in it's current form.

 

We support an OBA-Consumable concept - that way, all 15 team-slots are occupied by maneuvering tanks in every game.

 

Artillery modules would be fired in section or battery patterns and paid-for in progressively increasing credit-prices in-accordance with the progressive increase in the bore-size being fired.
 

This method would also allow for unit-organic mortar-fire, which would later allow a simple plug-in for the use of Smoke when those bugs are worked-out.



Fishrokk #15 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:16

    Major

  • Players
  • 17956 battles
  • 2,110
  • [K-S-W] K-S-W
  • Member since:
    04-09-2012

View PostKramburglar, on May 06 2015 - 09:00, said:

A mechanic that, for example, is so RNG dependent that the same exact shot taken twice in a row could have one miss entirely and the other oneshot a full HP tank tiers higher than it

 

That describes a majority of viable shots taken in the game.  Obviously if you're shooting into a mountain or taking down soft cover, not, but if you're aiming at a tank that your gun can viably pen, there's a chance for an ammo rack.  And there's a chance your round goes in the dirt or chasing a bird.

 

And it's more of an argument that RNG is broken than that arty is broken.


Edited by Fishrokk, May 06 2015 - 18:16.


steelrain97 #16 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:16

    Captain

  • Players
  • 43730 battles
  • 1,126
  • Member since:
    11-11-2012

View PostCinphul, on May 06 2015 - 10:51, said:

This thread is to address many of the claims made against arty - for those that hate arty no matter what, and have a closed mind to things like thinking, please just click the down vote  and move on.

 

Arty is all / mostly RNG
When it comes to aiming and accuracy, arty uses the exact same RNG mechanics as every other vehicle in the game, so arty does not have worse RNG than any other vehicle.  However, arty does typically have worse accuracy, and it shoots at targets much further away (typically 700+ meters), which causes arty to hit less, which gives it the appearance of bad RNG. 

 

To compensate for this, arty mostly shoots HE rounds that cause splash damage that typically has a larger radius for arty with worse accuracy.  So an SPG with bad accuracy will typically have a larger splash radius then an SPG with better (relatively speaking) accuracy.  This is so that the SPG that will miss more due to poor accuracy, will still do damage through splash.

 

This creates a problem - judging arty based on hit rate ignores splash damage, which can be a large portion of the damage arty does, especially for higher tier arty.

 

 

For example, the typical hit rate for arty is around 35%, while the typical hit rate for tanks is around 70%.  This a big difference, to say the least, and no doubt the reason arty is seen as all RNG.  However, arty tends to miss the target, but do splash damage around 30% of the time, and while these shots do damage, they don't count as hits.  Further, while normal tanks do hit very often, they also frequently bounce, doing no damage.  This varies widely depending on tier and penetration, but even if the shot hits but doesn't pen, it's still counted as a hit.

 

So a sizable portion of damaging splash shots aren't counted as hits for arty, while non-damaging bounced shots for other vehicles types are counted as hits.

 

The point here is that arty does not hit as much as other vehicles, but it does cause damage generally as much as other vehicles do.

 

Arty's alpha is too high

Arty does have very high alpha... but due to it's low pen, most shots, even direct hits, result in non-penetrating splash damage, which is half or less of the alpha for the gun.  So yes, the alpha is very high, but no, it's not reflective of the real damage done by most shots because penetrating, full damage shots aren't very common.  As well, this is off-set by arty's very low rate of fire.

 

The problem, of course, is that while most shots do half damage or less, there are those shots that do pen and do tremendous damage.  These are common enough to be annoying, and I suspect this is the mechanic WG is working on when they say they are working on arty.

 

Arty one shots

This is the quintessential mountain out of a molehill argument - yes, arty can indeed one shot, but it happens so rarely that to mention it as an argument against arty is at best embellishment.  It's just very hard to seriously address something that is so infrequent.

 

Arty hits fast moving targets

This argument is based on the false premise that arty should never be able to hit a fast moving vehicle, as though the rounds should be forced to miss if the enemy tanks is moving X speed or faster. 

 

The reality is that fast moving tanks move around freely with little or no risk from arty unless they are predictable in their movements.  The problem isn't the arty - it takes around 15 seconds for arty to aim in on a specific spot, and any adjustments cause some reticle bloom.  So for arty to have a reasonable chance of hitting a target, that target needs to be following a pattern either of their own creation, or as in most cases, following in the footsteps of everyone else.  An example of following in the footsteps is racing along the edge of the center ridge on Prokhorovka - everyone does it, and arty aims up for it and only needs to time their shot correct.

 

Arty causes camping

It's simple math - there are typically 13 to 14 enemy tanks on the enemy team, and only 1 or 2 enemy arty - those one or two vehicles represent only a minor threat compared to the 13 or 14 tanks.  So when players are hiding behind a rock or refuse to cross an open field, it's far more likely they are staying safe from the enemy tanks, then from the enemy arty.  And in fact, while playing arty, I regularly see players take positions that are safe from the tanks on my team, while leaving themselves completely exposed to my shots.  This is because they know the tanks on the other side of the field will kill them a lot faster then I will if they expose their tank.

 

Arty doesn't prevent camping

Of course arty prevents camping - some areas of the map are more challenging to use when there is arty in the game - you can't camp them as effectively because arty will target you if you try.  For example, certain strong turret / good gun depression tanks can go hull down over gently rolling hills that offer great cover vs enemy tanks, but very little cover vs enemy arty.  Because arty takes around 15 seconds to aim in, and has 30+ second reloads, these tanks are able to use these spots advantageously, but arty does prevent them from camping there for long periods of time.

 

Arty slows the game down

When there are too many arty in the game, yes, it does slow the game down - 4 or 5 arty per side is detrimental to overall gameplay, but such games are the exception, not the rule - most games have 1 to 2 arty, and in these games, arty has very little impact on how people play.  I know this because when I do play arty, I constantly see enemy tanks playing and fighting in open, exposed positions despite there being arty in the game.  When there's 4 or 5, however, the dynamic does indeed change for the worse.

 

The CGC can hit anything, anywhere

While the CGC does have higher arc than other arty, it most certainly can not hit anywhere. 

 

I went onto the Kharkov map and loaded up each of the tier 10 arty and parked them as deep into the bottom left corner as I possibly could, then aimed just beyond a specific building about 600m away on the red line.  This chart shows the difference between the different tier 10 arty I have:

Spoiler

 

As you can see, while the CGC does have better arc, it certainly can't render the cover that building provides useless.  If you look at the top edge of each picture, you'll see there is only an 8m difference (at 600m range) between the best arc CGC and the worse arc 155-xx.  Now admittedly, I don't have any of the worst arc tier 10 arty, but it is safe to say that the CGC does not render most or all cover worthless.

 

Arty is broken

A broken game mechanic is something that is so good, or so bad, that you are compelled to use it, or avoid it, based solely on it's performance.  Prior to the 8.6 patch, arty was demonstrably broken - it was so effective that the best and easiest way to influence a game was to play it.
 
However, statistics show that arty most certainly is not over or under performing compared to other tank types, so there is no compelling performance reason to play or avoid arty.  
 
Arty is different, not broken.  It has different mechanics, from the view system, to the arc of rounds to the range, arty is different.  But despite these differences, it does not out-perform other tank types.
 
Stats like survival rate are irrelevant - living longer does not mean you do more damage or win more, while damage dealt does.
 

Arty isn't fun

This is opinion.  I enjoy playing arty, and I enjoy getting into enemy lines and destroying it, so I enjoy playing against it as well.  Getting hit by arty isn't fun, certainly, but I never enjoy getting hit by any enemy tank, so it's no surprise that arty is no different.  Bottom line - the claim that arty isn't fun to play / play against is purely opinion, and not everybody agrees with your opinion.

 

And Cinful makes another arty post.....

Kramburglar #17 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:17

    Major

  • Players
  • 28726 battles
  • 5,756
  • Member since:
    12-18-2011

View PostCinphul, on May 06 2015 - 12:09, said:

 

Underpowered and overpowered are what define broken.  This "within the structure of the game" is hogflossinutter, which means you are literally making up what you want broken to be so that you can call arty broken.  "Within the structure of the game" is what WG defines as the structure of the game - this isn't a combat simulator, it's an arcade game, and they can add lasers if they'd like, and it would be within the structure because they determine what the structure is.  The problem here is that you don't like the structure, which is fine, but that does not mean it's at all broken, it's just something you disagree with.

 

As well, your claim that it is "so RNG dependent" is classic misrepresentation - arty uses the exact same RNG mechanics as every other vehicle in the game.  But again, we have an example that presents the absurdly rare one shot as the norm, which is no where near true. 

Yes, WG does determine what the structure of the game is, they have also done several rebalances or artillery and are still not happy, as they are planning another one.  So even according to your definition of broken only being decided by WG, arty is still broken, as WG thinks so as well

 

Yes, arty uses the same basic RNG, however its nature pushes these mechanics to the extreme with high dispersion, high alpha HE mechanics, long reloads and long engagement ranges



Ecksdeee #18 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:18

    Major

  • Players
  • 17275 battles
  • 10,308
  • [WRPCK] WRPCK
  • Member since:
    04-06-2012

View PostBlackhorse_Six, on May 06 2015 - 17:55, said:

 

Did you really need to quote it all over again in it's entirety for post #2:sceptic:

 

yet still more relevant than your post :trollface:

Urdr #19 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:21

    Major

  • Players
  • 48458 battles
  • 3,697
  • Member since:
    12-07-2012
1 shot a full hp Maus seems legit

Kramburglar #20 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:22

    Major

  • Players
  • 28726 battles
  • 5,756
  • Member since:
    12-18-2011

View PostFishrokk, on May 06 2015 - 12:16, said:

 

That describes a majority of viable shots taken in the game.  Obviously if you're shooting into a mountain or taking down soft cover, not, but if you're aiming at a tank that your gun can viably pen, there's a chance for an ammo rack.  And there's a chance your round goes in the dirt or chasing a bird.

 

And it's more of an argument that RNG is broken than that arty is broken.

 

Most shots aren't taken with the dispersion values or the engagement distance that arty shots are taken, and thus are less at the mercy of RNG.  RNG plays a roll in all things, the question is to what degree.  As for ammo racks, I'm not a fan of that mechanic either.  Personally I'd prefer the ammo rack not be able to detonate without already being yellow, but it's a rare enough occurrence that it doesn't get brought up often





Also tagged with arty

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users