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Artillery Reality Check

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Poll: A poll for fun (612 members have cast votes)

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Arty

  1. I greatly dislike it. (276 votes [45.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.10%

  2. I dislike it. (69 votes [11.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.27%

  3. I am neutral (87 votes [14.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.22%

  4. I like it. (86 votes [14.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.05%

  5. I greatly like it. (94 votes [15.36%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.36%

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WarStore #21 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:23

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View PostKramburglar, on May 06 2015 - 17:00, said:

No, what you are describing is overpowered and underpowered. 

 

A broken mechanic is a mechanic that doesn't work within the structure of the game.  A mechanic that, for example, is so RNG dependent that the same exact shot taken twice in a row could have one miss entirely and the other oneshot a full HP tank tiers higher than it

 

No man. You are wrong. Broken means what Cinphul wants, not what everyone else agrees with.

 

View Poststeelrain97, on May 06 2015 - 17:16, said:

 

And Cinful makes another arty post.....

 

Weird...I thought it was the arty haters who keep bringing this up. 



PlaidPony #22 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:25

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The last death spasms of a defeated apologist.

Cinphul #23 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:30

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View PostN00BSAIB0T, on May 06 2015 - 12:01, said:

You guys need to learn when to quit. You lost, it's over. Pack it up and go home. WG wouldn't be looking at a complete arty rebalance later this year if the dumb thing was working as intended. This is what, artillery's 4th or 5th major nerf/rebalance that we're looking at now? Take a hint.

 

Thank goodness for competition. The other game is forcing WG's hand to do this. They listened to the "vocal minority" and changed things up.

 

Enjoy the slot machine of death while it lasts. It'll be fun seeing WG stumble around to fix this flawed mechanic.

 

You might get some more luck in the Newbie forums with this thread.

 

You're clearly responding under the false assumption that I give a damn if they re-balance it, or even remove it.  I don't. 

ThisisGunnaHurt #24 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:32

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I agree mostly with you op but on a couple points. Arty probably scores direct hits around 5% of the time recently (since [dumb] accuracy nerf) on stationary targets. One shots happen probably around 1% of the time. While having 1-2 arty per game was the norm prior to the individual missions being in the game since then the norm has been 3-4 arty per game, which isn't much fun for anyone as you said. I think the real problem based on my own experience and opinion alone is the problem is too many arty per game too often. If it were a rare occasion you saw three arty it would be ok but now the frequency of seeing 4 or 5 arty is too high and ruins the fun for everyone. As for consumable style arty, it isn't good in the other game and it wouldn't be good in wot either. Imagine the games with 4 or 5 lights each able to spam their arty barrage ability every 10-30 seconds, I think it would, and does in wt, put us right back in the same situation. My solution is reduce the cap of arty per team to 2.

Cinphul #25 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:35

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View PostBlackhorse_Six, on May 06 2015 - 12:16, said:

We believe that Artillery has a place in the game, but not in it's current form.

 

We support an OBA-Consumable concept - that way, all 15 team-slots are occupied by maneuvering tanks.

 

Artillery modules would be fired in section or battery patterns and paid-for in progressively increasing credit-prices in-accordance with the progressive increase in bore-size being fired.
 

This method would also allow for unit-integral mortar-fire, which would later allow a simple plug-in for the use of Smoke when those bugs are worked-out.

 

Who is this "we" you speak of?  Do you know what everyone that dislikes arty wants, or are you a member of some club that sits around talking about this stuff?

Blackhorse_Six_ #26 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:41

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View PostCinphul, on May 06 2015 - 12:35, said:

Who is this "we" you speak of?  Do you know what everyone that dislikes arty wants, or are you a member of some club that sits around talking about this stuff?

 

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/user/blackhorse-7-3-1002100868/

 

Do you see a pattern there?

 

No Negs Assigned



Cinphul #27 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:42

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View PostKramburglar, on May 06 2015 - 12:17, said:

Yes, WG does determine what the structure of the game is, they have also done several rebalances or artillery and are still not happy, as they are planning another one.  So even according to your definition of broken only being decided by WG, arty is still broken, as WG thinks so as well

 

Let's keep the changes in context...  The 8.6 patch was because arty was completely OP and dominating the game - it needed a major change.  I would expect such changes to any class that became to OP or UP, such as the major upgrades lights got a few patches ago.  Besides that, it's been mostly tweaks in line with changes to other tank types, such as reduced spotting range.  Everything else, I believe, has been individual balances.

 

I don't think WG, like most players, really have a problem with arty, but I would not presume to speak for them.  I think they are making changes because of the rather small, but vocal forum posters, and because the other game is coming up with new, good ideas.

 

That said, I look forward to any improvements they make, and hope they make arty more engaging while preventing it from becoming OP.

 

Block Quote

Yes, arty uses the same basic RNG, however its nature pushes these mechanics to the extreme with high dispersion, high alpha HE mechanics, long reloads and long engagement ranges

 

That's simple diversity of game play options, which is good - everything shouldn't be to similar.  


Edited by Cinphul, May 06 2015 - 18:59.


NightmareMk9 #28 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:43

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Arty is very hard, especially when I can't find the damn button that locks the tracks

 



Kramburglar #29 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:44

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View PostCinphul, on May 06 2015 - 12:42, said:

 

Let's keep the changes in context...  The 8.6 patch was because arty was completely OP and dominating the game - it needed a major change.  I would expect such changes to any class that became to OP or UP, such as the major upgrades lights got a few patches ago.  Besides that, it's been mostly tweaks in line with changes to other tank types, such as reduced spotting range.  Everything else, I believe, has been individual balances.

 

I don't think WG, like most players, really have a problem with arty, but I would not presume to speak for them.  I think they are making changes because of the rather small, but vocal forum posters, and because the other game is coming up with new, good ideas.

 

That said, I look forward to any improvements they make, and hope they make arty more engaging while preventing it from becoming OP.

 

WG tells their RU forum to go f itself on a regular basis.  They are not making any changes due to "a small vocal minority"

Cinphul #30 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:48

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View PostKramburglar, on May 06 2015 - 12:44, said:

WG tells their RU forum to go f itself on a regular basis.  They are not making any changes due to "a small vocal minority"

 

WG customer relations is craptastic, that's for sure.  :)



Kramburglar #31 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:49

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View PostCinphul, on May 06 2015 - 12:48, said:

 

WG customer relations is craptastic, that's for sure.  :)

 

It's almost hilarious.  You have the rank and file that are trying so hard to be decent employees, and then you have the higher ups who can't be fired just saying whatever pops into their heads

noupperlobeman #32 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:52

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View PostCinphul, on May 06 2015 - 11:51, said:

 

 

Arty is broken

A broken game mechanic is something that is so good, or so bad, that you are compelled to use it, or avoid it, based solely on it's performance.  Prior to the 8.6 patch, arty was demonstrably broken - it was so effective that the best and easiest way to influence a game was to play it. 
 

Arty isn't fun

This is opinion.  I enjoy playing arty, and I enjoy getting into enemy lines and destroying it, so I enjoy playing against it as well.  Getting hit by arty isn't fun, certainly, but I never enjoy getting hit by any enemy tank, so it's no surprise that arty is no different.  Bottom line - the claim that arty isn't fun to play / play against is purely opinion, and not everybody agrees with your opinion.

 

What absolute tripe.

 

Artillery is broken because it allows a person to do damage with little risk (outside of very specific instances which if named, you're grasping at straws).

Artillery also is broken because it's a hard counter to skill. You learned the maps, sped your way to the most advantageous position for you medium tank,

set up shop and begin wrecking house, and you get murdered by someone who is actively not participating in the battle the same as the rest of you.

 

That's why artillery is broken: it's a reward for playing a different game than the rest of us.

 

Artillery isn't fun because I perfectly aimed shot can still miss, thus taking skill out of the equation. You can say regular tanks are subject to this but

the very nature of the mechanics behind these vehicles lends themselves to being more at the mercy of rng.



NightmareMk9 #33 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:54

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View PostKramburglar, on May 06 2015 - 18:49, said:

 

It's almost hilarious.  You have the rank and file that are trying so hard to be decent employees, and then you have the higher ups who can't be fired just saying whatever pops into their heads

 



Cinphul #34 Posted May 06 2015 - 18:57

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View PostKramburglar, on May 06 2015 - 12:22, said:

Most shots aren't taken with the dispersion values or the engagement distance that arty shots are taken, and thus are less at the mercy of RNG.  RNG plays a roll in all things, the question is to what degree.  As for ammo racks, I'm not a fan of that mechanic either.  Personally I'd prefer the ammo rack not be able to detonate without already being yellow, but it's a rare enough occurrence that it doesn't get brought up often

 

The difference is that arty is generally aiming at "a tank" to do damage, and can even do decent damage on a near miss, while tanks are generally aiming at "a weak spot" to do damage.  And it is generally just as hard to hit a cupola or specific port at 300m, as it is to hit a tank at 700m.



Kaeldian #35 Posted May 06 2015 - 19:02

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I see this guy is still being willfully ignorant that most of the playerbase does not like how arty is implimented.

 

Nothing to see here folks, move along.



Kramburglar #36 Posted May 06 2015 - 19:04

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View PostCinphul, on May 06 2015 - 12:57, said:

 

The difference is that arty is generally aiming at "a tank" to do damage, and can even do decent damage on a near miss, while tanks are generally aiming at "a weak spot" to do damage.  And it is generally just as hard to hit a cupola or specific port at 300m, as it is to hit a tank at 700m.

 

Which leads into one of my big gripes about arty.  If the tank fires it hits or misses, does damage or doesn't.  If it does damage it's within a predictable range.  All of this is while worrying about positioning, return fire, etc

 

Arty fires, it could miss and do no damage, miss and do a little damage, miss and do a lot of damage, hit and do a little damage , hit and do a lot of damage, hit and pen for its full alpha, which is

 

All the arty player did was aim in the general direction of the tank while sitting 700m away.  The rest was decided by WG servers



Grey_Mouser #37 Posted May 06 2015 - 19:04

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View PostN00BSAIB0T, on May 06 2015 - 10:01, said:

You guys need to learn when to quit. You lost, it's over. Pack it up and go home. WG wouldn't be looking at a complete arty rebalance later this year if the dumb thing was working as intended. This is what, artillery's 4th or 5th major nerf/rebalance that we're looking at now? Take a hint.

 

Thank goodness for competition. The other game is forcing WG's hand to do this. They listened to the "vocal minority" here and changed things up over there.

 

Enjoy the slot machine of death while it lasts. It'll be fun seeing WG stumble around to fix this flawed mechanic.

 

You might get some more luck in the Newbie forums with this thread.

 

I can't wait for the changes to happen so you anti-arty krayfish will finally stop whining... Oh wait, arty will still be in the game? That means that the whining will continue, unabated...

Kaeldian #38 Posted May 06 2015 - 19:10

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View Post_Malachi_, on May 06 2015 - 13:04, said:

 

I can't wait for the changes to happen so you anti-arty krayfish will finally stop whining... Oh wait, arty will still be in the game? That means that the whining will continue, unabated...

 

That's funny, I look forward to how  a certain other game is going to handle the issue.........

 

But enjoy your hyperbole.  I hear it goes great with cheese and whine.



WarStore #39 Posted May 06 2015 - 19:11

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View Post_Malachi_, on May 06 2015 - 18:04, said:

 

I can't wait for the changes to happen so you anti-arty krayfish will finally stop whining... Oh wait, arty will still be in the game? That means that the whining will continue, unabated...

 

According to the russians, you are the krayfish...just sayin.

And notice that, like 99% of the arty threads, this one was started by a pro-arty krayfish/olen


Edited by WarStore, May 06 2015 - 19:12.


steelrain97 #40 Posted May 06 2015 - 19:15

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The OP is filled with so many utterly rediculous statements that it's not even worth arguing over. Anyone who thinks the way the OP does is never going to listen to any rational agreement anyway. Just neg the arty troll and move along.





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