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Artillery Reality Check

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Poll: A poll for fun (612 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 100 battle in order to participate this poll.

Arty

  1. I greatly dislike it. (276 votes [45.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.10%

  2. I dislike it. (69 votes [11.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.27%

  3. I am neutral (87 votes [14.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.22%

  4. I like it. (86 votes [14.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.05%

  5. I greatly like it. (94 votes [15.36%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.36%

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BadCaseOfDerpes #541 Posted Nov 27 2015 - 16:41

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I like it. It prevents camping, and even in the tanks where I'm supposed to fear arty, I honestly almost never worry about it.

zed2204 #542 Posted Nov 27 2015 - 17:12

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Well I have 1 arty, GW Panther, I play it rarely mostly for missions and do counter battery. So I am a horrible arty player I can't lead shots, I don't know where to go, I am BAD yet I always kill someone.
The anty cammping argument is rediculus, there are reasons for arty to be in the game I won't deny that but prevent camping isn't even close to reality.
The argument of strong armor tanks not beeng able to hulldown is valid and I agree with it, but a T30 using its turret to hold a spot isn't camping, its actively in the game front line.
I play TDs and arty never prevented me from camping, how could it do that I am not spoted, even if I got spoted for a while arty will need a lot of time to aim at me wich will mean I am no longer camping but fighting with other tanks that are spotting me.
OK a game with 30 tanks no arty so 1-2 tanks deside to stay back and camp, bad right?
Then a game with 30 tanks and 3 arty on each team that do what ? Stay in base and shoot at occasional targets wit questionable result, and that is not camping how

Edited by zed2204, Nov 27 2015 - 17:13.


Cinphul #543 Posted Nov 27 2015 - 23:05

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View Postzed2204, on Nov 27 2015 - 11:12, said:

Well I have 1 arty, GW Panther, I play it rarely mostly for missions and do counter battery. So I am a horrible arty player I can't lead shots, I don't know where to go, I am BAD yet I always kill someone.

 

You have an average of 1.06 kills per game in your GW Panther.  You have an average 1.82 kills per game in your SU-100, 1.62 kills per game in your Charioteer, 1.46 kills per game in your T-34-85, and 1.14 kills per game in your T-44.  Is that supposed to mean something?  Are you suggesting these tanks are all OP?

 

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The anty cammping argument is rediculus, there are reasons for arty to be in the game I won't deny that but prevent camping isn't even close to reality.

 

So why do you think arty is in the game?

 

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The argument of strong armor tanks not beeng able to hulldown is valid and I agree with it, but a T30 using its turret to hold a spot isn't camping, its actively in the game front line.

 

So basically if a tank races to a forward hull down position, that's perfectly fine with you?  Even if they spend the next 5 minutes sitting in that spot doing nothing but controlling that area?  I think that's pretty absurd.

 

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I play TDs and arty never prevented me from camping, how could it do that I am not spoted, even if I got spoted for a while arty will need a lot of time to aim at me wich will mean I am no longer camping but fighting with other tanks that are spotting me.

 

Arty is not there to stop players from hiding in the back of their base...

 

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OK a game with 30 tanks no arty so 1-2 tanks deside to stay back and camp, bad right?
Then a game with 30 tanks and 3 arty on each team that do what ? Stay in base and shoot at occasional targets wit questionable result, and that is not camping how

 

I've played thousands of games in arty, and players don't suddenly start hiding just because there's 3 arty in the battle.



WildSudowoodo #544 Posted Nov 28 2015 - 01:40

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You can blow hot air as hard as you like, but ironically your own poll speaks for itself.

LOL_i_CLICKED_u #545 Posted Nov 28 2015 - 01:53

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Yes, it means people dont like their camping game changed. 

SinisterMist #546 Posted Nov 28 2015 - 06:22

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View PostCinphul, on Nov 27 2015 - 09:15, said:

 

That has nothing to do with arty, it's a server / client issue.

No, WG allows them to do this. Nothing to do with that.



Cinphul #547 Posted Nov 28 2015 - 09:51

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View Postianizor1000, on Nov 28 2015 - 00:22, said:

No, WG allows them to do this. Nothing to do with that.

 

You can get with this, or you can get with that.  

You can get with this, or you can get with that.

And i have no idea what this or that is.



Vautour #548 Posted Nov 28 2015 - 13:52

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View PostBadCaseOfDerpes, on Nov 27 2015 - 10:41, said:

I like it. It prevents camping, and even in the tanks where I'm supposed to fear arty, I honestly almost never worry about it.

 

Long range indirect fire allows you to stay camouflaged with barely any effort, making arty the ultimate camping class, which, by definition, increases camping.

And since getting spotted gives arty a chance to one shot kill/cripple you, camping is the best defense against it, since it allows you to not be spotted.

Skill can't counter randomness since there's no way to know where each arty is aiming or where it's shell will land.

Making skill, which pushes players to get better in a competitive game, useless reduces players' drive to improve, because RNGesus will do as he pleases.



Cinphul #549 Posted Nov 28 2015 - 16:07

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View PostVautour, on Nov 28 2015 - 07:52, said:

Long range indirect fire allows you to stay camouflaged with barely any effort, making arty the ultimate camping class, which, by definition, increases camping.

 

You can say arty camps if that makes you feel better, but arty is not in the game to prevent all camping, it's there to keep the game moving by prevent camping that slows down the game.  For example, when certain strong turret / good gun depression tanks go hull down over gently rolling hills that offer great cover vs enemy tanks, or when a tank that's excellent at side scraping works a corner.  Tanks in these positions create an obstacle that is far more effective at preventing enemy advancement than any arty could ever be.  This is exactly the type of camping arty is meant to control.  It's also why better players don't like arty - it prevents them from completely dominating.

 

So this claim that arty increases camping because it camps is really just absurd.  Do you go around proclaiming traffic controls like stop lights and signs are bad because they create more traffic by making people stop all the time, which causes them to be on the road longer?  I mean sure, when there's no traffic, they are a nuisance, but during rush hour when everyone's on the road, despite causing some traffic by making people stop, traffic controls greatly increase the overall flow of traffic by keeping things organized.

 

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And since getting spotted gives arty a chance to one shot kill/cripple you, camping is the best defense against it, since it allows you to not be spotted.

 

That's a great scare argument, the only problem is that people don't camp to avoid arty.  They did prior to 8.6, but they really just don't anymore unless it's an absurd game with 4 or 5 arty, but those are extremely rare.

 

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Skill can't counter randomness since there's no way to know where each arty is aiming or where it's shell will land.

 

You're just wrong.  Arty has plenty of skill counter.  I know when I'm in an exposed spot, and I have a good idea how long I have before I need to move.  If I hear or see an arty round hit, I know I have time to act more openly.  I've even dodged an arty and have a replay of it somewhere.  Obviously I'm not perfect at avoiding arty, but nobody is perfect at avoiding anything.  On the flip side of that, when playing arty I've tried to shoot people that were extremely good at making my shot extremely hard, yet they were able to keep their gun hot in an exchange with my allies.  One particular instance I recall vividly was on Serene Coast the player was on the 1 line (no cover from arty) and I could not get a good shoot on him because his movement was so erratic.  Yet every time he was reloaded, he'd pop up, pop off a shot and roll back. 

 

The point is, arty can be mitigated to some degree with knowledge and skill, and it doesn't have to be just hiding behind hard cover.  If you think it can't, you're doing it wrong.

 

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Making skill, which pushes players to get better in a competitive game, useless reduces players' drive to improve, because RNGesus will do as he pleases.

 

So now arty makes skill "useless"?  That's just hyperbole nonsense.



SinisterMist #550 Posted Nov 28 2015 - 16:36

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View PostCinphul, on Nov 28 2015 - 02:51, said:

 

You can get with this, or you can get with that.  

You can get with this, or you can get with that.

And i have no idea what this or that is.

 

Ok if you want to play semantics. WG allows artillery to see trees and obstacles knocked down. They could alter it so that it cannot see things IT HAS NO BUSINESS SEEING. That is not a client/server issue.

Cinphul #551 Posted Nov 28 2015 - 20:35

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View Postianizor1000, on Nov 28 2015 - 10:36, said:

Ok if you want to play semantics. WG allows artillery to see trees and obstacles knocked down. They could alter it so that it cannot see things IT HAS NO BUSINESS SEEING. That is not a client/server issue.

 

I'm not playing semantics, I'm trying to make sure I know what the hell you are talking about, and now that I know, yes, that is a client / server issue.  When a tree is knocked down on the opposite side of the map, ALL clients receive the data that the tree has been knocked down so that if you happen to drive to that area later in the game, you'll see that the tree has already been knocked down.  It is possible for the server to tell you that the tree has fallen only after it comes into your view range, but that creates a big problem - to know the tree has come into your view range means the server needs to constantly monitor the distance between your tank and the tree so it knows when to let the your computer know the tree had been knocked down.  So now the server would have to constantly be doing range calculations not just between enemy tanks, but also between tanks and any object that has been knocked over or destroyed.  This would obviously overload the server with irrelivant range calculations, which is why this is a client server issue.

 

interestingly, it is this exact same issue that allows the destructibles hack to work - when the server notifies your computer that a tree has been knocked down on the far side of the map, the hack takes that information and turns it into a ping on the map.  I have no doubt WG would love to fix this particular issue, but it's not as easy as you think.



zed2204 #552 Posted Nov 29 2015 - 08:19

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"You have an average of 1.06 kills per game in your GW Panther.  You have an average 1.82 kills per game in your SU-100, 1.62 kills per game in your Charioteer, 1.46 kills per game in your T-34-85, and 1.14 kills per game in your T-44.  Is that supposed to mean something?  Are you suggesting these tanks are all OP? "

 

No,because i can play them, i have 3 marks on SU100 and Charioteer, 2 on T34-85 i spend time playng them and get better, but with arty no time needed, i play it rarely and dont really know what i am doing and still 1.06.   No skills needed

 

 

"I've played thousands of games in arty, and players don't suddenly start hiding just because there's 3 arty in the battle."

 

I am currently grinding T30 and will never take it on hill on Malinovka, ElHaluf ..... It can totally fight there and be desisive there and in no arty games i always go there but 3 t9-10 artys nooooo i stay back and snipe 

A T10 BC arty taking 1.5k from my JPE100 in 3 shots is balanced? What am i suposed to do , stay behind the rock and never move forward, i must close the distance to that MED holding the flank but how can i move , no way i can zizag and i must pass an open area or just stay put , but what choice is that camping or death ?

 

What do you view as camping, a TD in a bush is camping, as long as you can see enemies and shoot them you are in the fight, a hulldoun tank controling an forward area, if there is no one there it is camping, if he is alone and holding a flank  that is not camping

For me camping is sitting in a spot where you are safe but too far from the action to be of use and see only ocasional targets untill your team is dead and you must  alone.


Edited by zed2204, Nov 29 2015 - 08:44.


TlGERACE #553 Posted Nov 29 2015 - 08:29

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The best part of arty is when you return the favor by shooting them from afar like 650meter shot or better at close range when they feel so terrified and they just drown themselves

Cinphul #554 Posted Nov 29 2015 - 17:28

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View Postzed2204, on Nov 29 2015 - 02:19, said:

No,because i can play them, i have 3 marks on SU100 and Charioteer, 2 on T34-85 i spend time playng them and get better, but with arty no time needed, i play it rarely and dont really know what i am doing and still 1.06.   No skills needed

 

What nonsense.  You did not learn how to play tanks while playing the SU100, Charioteer or T34-85, you learned how to play tanks at tier 1, 2 & 3.  Don't pretend for a second those 3 tanks are so radically different from all the other tanks you had played previously that you had to completely re-learn the game, that's just crap.

 

If no time is needed to learn arty, why does your Sturmpanzer II have a 0.40 kill rate, and a 40% win rate?  I thought no skill was needed, I thought you knew how to play arty right out of the gate, yet your record in your first arty is crap?  As well, feel free to explain your abysmal 0.69 kill ratio in your Hummel?  If it's so easy to get kills in arty, why is it so hard for you to get a kill in your most played arty?

 

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I am currently grinding T30 and will never take it on hill on Malinovka, ElHaluf ..... It can totally fight there and be desisive there and in no arty games i always go there but 3 t9-10 artys nooooo i stay back and snipe 

 

This is a perfect example of what arty is in the game to do - arty is in the game to make it risky for you if you go to a position that is so advantageous that you can be "decisive" based almost exclusively on the tank and the position you put it in.

 

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A T10 BC arty taking 1.5k from my JPE100 in 3 shots is balanced?

 

Yes, it is balanced.  It takes one minute and 15 seconds to reload the clip on that thing.  That means it's just sitting there for 75 seconds.  Then it gets 4 comparatively weak shots (after all, you took 3 hits from arty, yet only sustained 1500 damage, that's pretty weak).  And you're complaining about that?  Spare me.

 

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What am i suposed to do , stay behind the rock and never move forward, i must close the distance to that MED holding the flank but how can i move , no way i can zizag and i must pass an open area or just stay put , but what choice is that camping or death ?

 

What you are complaining about is again a perfect example of why arty is in the game - you have a bigger gun, more HP and more armor, so without arty, what is going to stop you from absolutely dominating that medium tank?  That's what you're complaining about - you're literally complaining that you can't dominate every aspect of the game because you chose slow, powerful tanks and the enemy arty makes playing in the open risky for you. Well boo hoo.

 

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What do you view as camping, a TD in a bush is camping, as long as you can see enemies and shoot them you are in the fight, a hulldoun tank controling an forward area, if there is no one there it is camping, if he is alone and holding a flank  that is not camping

For me camping is sitting in a spot where you are safe but too far from the action to be of use and see only ocasional targets untill your team is dead and you must  alone.

 

Any tank that is sitting in a relatively safe spot for an extended period of time is camping.  It doesn't matter if it's way back or on the front, if you're not moving because of the safety of the spot your in, your camping.


And learn how to quote, it's not hard.  Just hit the "quote" button.  If you want to make several quotes, copy and paste the text you want to quote below the first quote, highlight a section, and hit the " button.  It even does the formatting for you.



pwcpilot #555 Posted Jan 10 2016 - 04:19

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View PostuMadXD, on Aug 24 2015 - 15:45, said:

 

Statistically WarStore is a great player, along with many other arty critics. They're able to cope with almost anything: hulldown tanks, snipers, sidescrapers, autoloaders, and even TDs that have near-arty level of alpha. But why is it that they can't deal with arty? Because they simply can't unless they want to play worse.

 

Spoiler
maybe if you tried out something that's actually affected by arty you'd understand. until then, your opinions don't matter.

 

He just has no desire to become a better player. He'd rather whine like the little girl he is.

WarStore #556 Posted Jan 10 2016 - 04:33

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Troll wants to troll so hard he has to perform thread necromancy.



luver2 #557 Posted Jan 10 2016 - 10:10

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Thank U 4 "re-"posting this. I definitely agree with most of what U say therein.

If U way-to-experienced chaps don't like... don't read it.  Who's the fool here?  March on & do something positive with your time up here rather than [edited], [edited], [edited]. Have any of U even played arty?  Have U experienced the frustration at the MANY misses & the mind-numbing slow reloads& aim times?  May come as a surprise to some of U that don't seem to have anything better to do with your lives, time, & talent than play this GAME & troll these forums, that MANY of us only discover this info because it HAS BEEN re-posted.

 

Artillery DOES add a true dimension of reality to these battles...& helps prevent ALOT of truly unrealistic behavior/tactics.  Why do U think that all the major powers built & deployed `000's of pieces & fired 000,000's of rounds!?  Were they all trying to kill little minor threats like infantry?  Geez, go watch the opening scenes of "Fury".  Why do think they were MOVING/getting the hell out of there... because infantry was shooting at them?

 

Be grateful they havn't included MINES.   Now THAT would be TOO realistic & a real battle bummer. (trust me, i'v been hit by both in a REAL tank & at least with arty, one has a chance to find & kill them)



Pakratte #558 Posted Jan 10 2016 - 11:08

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View PostWarStore, on Jan 09 2016 - 22:33, said:

 

 

Troll wants to troll so hard he has to perform thread necromancy.

 

I played the hell outta that game..

WarStore #559 Posted Jan 10 2016 - 11:18

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View PostKomandor_Ken, on Jan 10 2016 - 09:10, said:

 

 

Be grateful they havn't included MINES.   Now THAT would be TOO realistic & a real battle bummer. (trust me, i'v been hit by both in a REAL tank & at least with arty, one has a chance to find & kill them)

 

Why not add mines? It would be a more democratic, just as random, infinitely more realistic and less frustrating mechanic than arty. Mines >>>>>>>>>>>>> arty

 

View PostPakratte, on Jan 10 2016 - 10:08, said:

 

I played the hell outta that game..

Me too. Good times.



uMadXD #560 Posted Jan 13 2016 - 20:03

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View Postpwcpilot, on Jan 09 2016 - 20:19, said:

 

He just has no desire to become a better player. He'd rather whine like the little girl he is.

 

So being a "better player" is being statistically bad like most of the arty supporters according to you?





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