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Artillery Reality Check

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Poll: A poll for fun (612 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 100 battle in order to participate this poll.

Arty

  1. I greatly dislike it. (276 votes [45.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.10%

  2. I dislike it. (69 votes [11.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.27%

  3. I am neutral (87 votes [14.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.22%

  4. I like it. (86 votes [14.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.05%

  5. I greatly like it. (94 votes [15.36%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.36%

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Aspalar_OG_Bulba #561 Posted Jan 13 2016 - 20:11

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View PostKomandor_Ken, on Jan 10 2016 - 10:10, said:

Thank U 4 "re-"posting this. I definitely agree with most of what U say therein.

If U way-to-experienced chaps don't like... don't read it.  Who's the fool here?  March on & do something positive with your time up here rather than [edited], [edited], [edited]. Have any of U even played arty?  Have U experienced the frustration at the MANY misses & the mind-numbing slow reloads& aim times?  May come as a surprise to some of U that don't seem to have anything better to do with your lives, time, & talent than play this GAME & troll these forums, that MANY of us only discover this info because it HAS BEEN re-posted.

 

Artillery DOES add a true dimension of reality to these battles...& helps prevent ALOT of truly unrealistic behavior/tactics.  Why do U think that all the major powers built & deployed `000's of pieces & fired 000,000's of rounds!?  Were they all trying to kill little minor threats like infantry?  Geez, go watch the opening scenes of "Fury".  Why do think they were MOVING/getting the hell out of there... because infantry was shooting at them?

 

Be grateful they havn't included MINES.   Now THAT would be TOO realistic & a real battle bummer. (trust me, i'v been hit by both in a REAL tank & at least with arty, one has a chance to find & kill them)

 

i lol'd for realz

Elusive89 #562 Posted Jan 13 2016 - 20:27

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View PostuMadXD, on Jan 13 2016 - 19:03, said:

 

So being a "better player" is being statistically bad like most of the arty supporters according to you?

 

Psh, we all know stats mean nothing in this game, we purpz get high DPG and WR thru rigged MM, high levels of luck, and padding in OP-ezmode-mediums.  We haven't figured out that arty, red line camping, and XVM focus are the true depiction of skeelz. 



Fenxis #563 Posted Jan 13 2016 - 20:28

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View PostCinphul, on Nov 29 2015 - 11:28, said:

 

Yes, it is balanced.  It takes one minute and 15 seconds to reload the clip on that thing.  That means it's just sitting there for 75 seconds.  Then it gets 4 comparatively weak shots (after all, you took 3 hits from arty, yet only sustained 1500 damage, that's pretty weak).  And you're complaining about that?  Spare me.
 

 

Again, artillery isn't unbalanced. Overall it's actually quite balanced because of RNG. But that still doesn't mean it's not a [edited]broken mechanic.

 

I sit there (playing arty b/c of SPG missions) aiming with an SU-14-2 and only shoot when I'm fully aimed. There's a 33% chance it will completely miss, 33% chance it will hit for 500 and a 33% chance I pen the engine deck and one-shot the target for 1500 dmg. Is that fun? Not really. For me or the other end.

 

Alpha / reload needs to be balanced around ~20 seconds -- enough time for players to untrack and get back under cover. And perhaps rework arty HE to be less extreme in the high/low damage range.

 

 



badperson #564 Posted Jan 13 2016 - 20:50

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View PostKomandor_Ken, on Jan 10 2016 - 10:10, said:

trust me, i'v been hit by both in a REAL tank

 

WTH have you been doing with your life to get splashed by arty while in a tank?  Did you consider a career change?

 



luver2 #565 Posted Jan 21 2016 - 03:18

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View Postbadperson, on Jan 13 2016 - 11:50, said:

 

WTH have you been doing with your life to get splashed by arty while in a tank?  Did you consider a career change?

 

 

LOL!  That was many years ago in a land far, far away.  (see my icon)

Operated in the DMZ where NVA 122's pounded us rather regularly.  :hiding:   It wasn't a "guerrilla war" as the media portrayed it, more like WW1 up in the "D".  They didn't shoot & run; they were in their own homeland. :justwait: 

They shot spotter rounds just like us & when they zeroed in... they fired for effect.  It was often only the mud that saved us from more splash damage... of course the same mud made us VERY slow moving targets. :ohmy:

One round hit so close it blew off our RR deck section & knocked me out cold way up in my TC cupola.  :facepalm:

 

As for career change... U bet.  365 days being shot at & a total of 2 years,10 months, & 12 days & my young [edited]was outta there to start college, & making a whole lotta LOVE, not war! :girl:



RaynorShyne #566 Posted Jun 11 2018 - 04:16

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View PostCinphul, on May 06 2015 - 10:51, said:

This thread is to address many of the claims made against arty - for those that hate arty no matter what, and have a closed mind to things like thinking, please just click the  and move on.

 

Arty is all / mostly RNG
When it comes to aiming and accuracy, arty uses the exact same RNG mechanics as every other vehicle in the game, so arty does not have worse RNG than any other vehicle.  However, arty does typically have worse accuracy, and it shoots at targets much further away (typically 700+ meters), which causes arty to hit less, which gives it the appearance of bad RNG. 

 

To compensate for this, arty mostly shoots HE rounds that cause splash damage that typically has a larger radius for arty with worse accuracy.  So an SPG with bad accuracy will typically have a larger splash radius then an SPG with better (relatively speaking) accuracy.  This is so that the SPG that will miss more due to poor accuracy, will still do damage through splash.

 

This creates a problem - judging arty based on hit rate ignores splash damage, which can be a large portion of the damage arty does, especially for higher tier arty.

 

 

For example, the typical hit rate for arty is around 35%, while the typical hit rate for tanks is around 70%.  This a big difference, to say the least, and no doubt the reason arty is seen as all RNG.  However, arty tends to miss the target, but do splash damage around 30% of the time, and while these shots do damage, they don't count as hits.  Further, while normal tanks do hit very often, they also frequently bounce, doing no damage.  This varies widely depending on tier and penetration, but even if the shot hits but doesn't pen, it's still counted as a hit.

 

So a sizable portion of damaging splash shots aren't counted as hits for arty, while non-damaging bounced shots for other vehicles types are counted as hits.

 

The point here is that arty does not hit as much as other vehicles, but it does cause damage generally as much as other vehicles do.

 

Arty's alpha is too high

Arty does have very high alpha... but due to it's low pen, most shots, even direct hits, result in non-penetrating splash damage, which is half or less of the alpha for the gun.  So yes, the alpha is very high, but no, it's not reflective of the real damage done by most shots because penetrating, full damage shots aren't very common.  As well, this is off-set by arty's very low rate of fire.

 

The problem, of course, is that while most shots do half damage or less, there are those shots that do pen and do tremendous damage.  These are common enough to be annoying, and I suspect this is the mechanic WG is working on when they say they are working on arty.

 

Arty one shots

This is the quintessential mountain out of a molehill argument - yes, arty can indeed one shot, but it happens so rarely that to mention it as an argument against arty is at best embellishment.  It's just very hard to seriously address something that is so infrequent.

 

Arty hits fast moving targets

This argument is based on the false premise that arty should never be able to hit a fast moving vehicle, as though the rounds should be forced to miss if the enemy tanks is moving X speed or faster. 

 

The reality is that fast moving tanks move around freely with little or no risk from arty unless they are predictable in their movements.  The problem isn't the arty - it takes around 15 seconds for arty to aim in on a specific spot, and any adjustments cause some reticle bloom.  So for arty to have a reasonable chance of hitting a target, that target needs to be following a pattern either of their own creation, or as in most cases, following in the footsteps of everyone else.  An example of following in the footsteps is racing along the edge of the center ridge on Prokhorovka - everyone does it, and arty aims up for it and only needs to time their shot correct.

 

Arty causes camping

It's simple math - there are typically 13 to 14 enemy tanks on the enemy team, and only 1 or 2 enemy arty - those one or two vehicles represent only a minor threat compared to the 13 or 14 tanks.  So when players are hiding behind a rock or refuse to cross an open field, it's far more likely they are staying safe from the enemy tanks, then from the enemy arty.  And in fact, while playing arty, I regularly see players take positions that are safe from the tanks on my team, while leaving themselves completely exposed to my shots.  This is because they know the tanks on the other side of the field will kill them a lot faster then I will if they expose their tank.

 

Arty doesn't prevent camping

Of course arty prevents camping - some areas of the map are more challenging to use when there is arty in the game - you can't camp them as effectively because arty will target you if you try.  For example, certain strong turret / good gun depression tanks can go hull down over gently rolling hills that offer great cover vs enemy tanks, but very little cover vs enemy arty.  Because arty takes around 15 seconds to aim in, and has 30+ second reloads, these tanks are able to use these spots advantageously, but arty does prevent them from camping there for long periods of time.

 

Arty slows the game down

When there are too many arty in the game, yes, it does slow the game down - 4 or 5 arty per side is detrimental to overall gameplay, but such games are the exception, not the rule - most games have 1 to 2 arty, and in these games, arty has very little impact on how people play.  I know this because when I do play arty, I constantly see enemy tanks playing and fighting in open, exposed positions despite there being arty in the game.  When there's 4 or 5, however, the dynamic does indeed change for the worse.

 

The CGC can hit anything, anywhere

While the CGC does have higher arc than other arty, it most certainly can not hit anywhere. 

 

I went onto the Kharkov map and loaded up each of the tier 10 arty and parked them as deep into the bottom left corner as I possibly could, then aimed just beyond a specific building about 600m away on the red line.  This chart shows the difference between the different tier 10 arty I have:

Spoiler

 

As you can see, while the CGC does have better arc, it certainly can't render the cover that building provides useless.  If you look at the top edge of each picture, you'll see there is only an 8m difference (at 600m range) between the best arc CGC and the worse arc 155-xx.  Now admittedly, I don't have any of the worst arc tier 10 arty, but it is safe to say that the CGC does not render most or all cover worthless.

 

Arty is broken

A broken game mechanic is something that is so good, or so bad, that you are compelled to use it, or avoid it, based solely on it's performance.  Prior to the 8.6 patch, arty was demonstrably broken - it was so effective that the best and easiest way to influence a game was to play it.
 
However, statistics show that arty most certainly is not over or under performing compared to other tank types, so there is no compelling performance reason to play or avoid arty.  
 
Arty is different, not broken.  It has different mechanics, from the view system, to the arc of rounds to the range, arty is different.  But despite these differences, it does not out-perform other tank types.
 
Stats like survival rate are irrelevant - living longer does not mean you do more damage or win more, while damage dealt does.
 
Arty cap is proof it's flawed
The arty cap is proof that arty is a support mechanic.  It's limited for the exact same reason the number of rounds in a grenade launcher is limited to two in CoD - if it weren't, the game would fundamentally change.  That said, the arty cap could be lifted right now and nobody would notice because games with 5 arty are so absurdly rare, games would 6 almost unheard of.
 

Arty isn't fun

This is opinion.  I enjoy playing arty, and I enjoy getting into enemy lines and destroying it, so I enjoy playing against it as well.  Getting hit by arty isn't fun, certainly, but I never enjoy getting hit by any enemy tank, so it's no surprise that arty is no different.  Bottom line - the claim that arty isn't fun to play / play against is purely opinion, and not everybody agrees with your opinion.

 

Just chucking it back up there



Staz211 #567 Posted Jun 11 2018 - 05:15

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View PostRaynorShyne, on Jun 10 2018 - 22:16, said:

 

Just chucking it back up there

 

Holy necro man. Really? This is just bad form. 

Rimrender #568 Posted Jun 11 2018 - 14:15

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"I cant differentiate between a rock and a bush" = most of the answers. 





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