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Chinese 122mm Gun Depression


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Guest_Gryphon__* #1 Posted May 18 2015 - 19:45

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Is there any historical basis for the Chinese mediums having such poor gun depression (3 degrees) when using the 122mm? 

 



stalkervision #2 Posted May 18 2015 - 19:49

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gun depression in WOT is not much like it's real world stats.

Daigensui #3 Posted May 18 2015 - 19:50

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The Chinese have the historical stats. It is the Soviets who have buffed ones.

Strike_Witch_Tomoko #4 Posted May 18 2015 - 19:53

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View PostDaigensui, on May 18 2015 - 11:50, said:

The Chinese have the historical stats. It is the Soviets who have buffed ones.

 

^this

 

for proof. KV-1S



Wyvern2 #5 Posted May 18 2015 - 20:11

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View PostAmberpaw, on May 18 2015 - 19:53, said:

 

^this

 

for proof. KV-1S

 

KV-1s gun depression is a joke, unless you mean the old KV-1s, which had something like 5-6 extra degrees of gun depression.

That said, they do get a few buffs, just nothing as majorly offensive as the old KV-1s


Edited by Wyvern2, May 18 2015 - 20:13.


General_Walton_H_Walker #6 Posted May 18 2015 - 20:23

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I dont know what proof the chinese have that they could mount a 122mm, but there is proof that the t-54/55 couldnt mount a gun bigger than the 100mm due to the turret ring,  hence why they developed the t-62 to mount the 115mm. 

_Spud #7 Posted May 18 2015 - 20:25

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The gun depression on the 121 was one of the main reasons I sold it. I still don't regret it. Thing's gas tank was made of wood and matches. The ammo rack was made from cheap tissue paper knock offs that you find in public bathrooms. The gun depression was awful but it certainly wasn't the worst aspect of the tank... I knew how to get around that crippling disadvantage, mainly using hills to prop the tank up and shoot sideways onto targets. Hard to explain, go watch youtube videos on how to get around it. I hope they one day buff the gun depression because the gun itself was amazing. Great rof, aim, and alpha. I might buy it back if they add 2 or more degrees of depression and elevation.

Guest_Gryphon__* #8 Posted May 18 2015 - 21:52

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View PostDaigensui, on May 18 2015 - 10:50, said:

The Chinese have the historical stats. It is the Soviets who have buffed ones.

 

I like this post. There are other attributes of tanks where USSR bias seems to be evident - 'ground resistance' is the one that leaps out - but at least gun depression exists IRL and can be researched. How significant is the buffing of the USSR tanks gun depression specs compared to history?

Strv74 #9 Posted May 18 2015 - 23:32

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View PostGryphon_, on May 18 2015 - 21:52, said:

 How significant is the buffing of the USSR tanks gun depression specs compared to history?

 

Well, some, like the old KV-1S, had double. Some just have 150%



Legiondude #10 Posted May 19 2015 - 00:22

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ISU-130 had -1, but it was given -8

 

T-54 mod. 1 had -3, was given -6



Strv74 #11 Posted May 19 2015 - 00:59

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View PostLegiondude, on May 19 2015 - 00:22, said:

ISU-130 had -1, but it was given -8

 

Russia Stronk.

 

Meanwhile, British tanks get LESS gun depression than reality. See: -7 instead of -20, Matilda. 



Daigensui #12 Posted May 19 2015 - 01:29

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View PostGryphon_, on May 18 2015 - 13:52, said:

I like this post. There are other attributes of tanks where USSR bias seems to be evident - 'ground resistance' is the one that leaps out - but at least gun depression exists IRL and can be researched. How significant is the buffing of the USSR tanks gun depression specs compared to history?

 

I wouldn't necessarily say "USSR bias". For depression, it's a legacy from an area where gun depression wasn't a major historical accuracy element, never mind that WG was pretty wet behind the ears. Also, now that the Chinese came up, they needed to somehow differentiate things.

 

As for ground resistance, that's more an issue of game engine limitations forcing WG to use it to somewhat balance things and also allow vehicles to move at least reasonably.



Strv74 #13 Posted May 19 2015 - 01:39

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View PostDaigensui, on May 19 2015 - 01:29, said:

 

I wouldn't necessarily say "USSR bias". For depression, it's a legacy from an area where gun depression wasn't a major historical accuracy element, never mind that WG was pretty wet behind the ears. Also, now that the Chinese came up, they needed to somehow differentiate things.

 

As for ground resistance, that's more an issue of game engine limitations forcing WG to use it to somewhat balance things and also allow vehicles to move at least reasonably.

 

Yes, but terrain resistance could be based on a logical real stat. Ground Pressure.

Daigensui #14 Posted May 19 2015 - 01:42

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View PostStrv74, on May 18 2015 - 17:39, said:

Yes, but terrain resistance could be based on a logical real stat. Ground Pressure.

 

Which is neither linear nor really applicable.



Life_In_Black #15 Posted May 19 2015 - 02:31

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View PostGeneral_Walton_H_Walker, on May 18 2015 - 15:23, said:

I dont know what proof the chinese have that they could mount a 122mm, but there is proof that the t-54/55 couldnt mount a gun bigger than the 100mm due to the turret ring,  hence why they developed the t-62 to mount the 115mm. 

 

There have been 125mm smoothbores mounted in the T-55, not to mention the numerous versions of the T-55 using the 105mm L7.

shapeshifter #16 Posted May 19 2015 - 21:34

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View PostLegiondude, on May 18 2015 - 18:22, said:

ISU-130 had -1, but it was given -8

 

T-54 mod. 1 had -3, was given -6

T-34 had -3, given -6 or -8 depending on gun mounted.


Edited by shapeshifter, May 19 2015 - 21:37.


Guest_Gryphon__* #17 Posted May 21 2015 - 16:42

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View PostDaigensui, on May 18 2015 - 16:29, said:

 

As for ground resistance, that's more an issue of game engine limitations forcing WG to use it to somewhat balance things and also allow vehicles to move at least reasonably.

 

I've been using Tank Inspector and doing the math on horsepower per ton as modified by the ground resistance (GR) and its interesting how that factor completely changes the picture on the acceleration in reality compared to what is quoted as 'specific power'. It completely explains why some tanks that look good in specific power terms arent as good when GR is taken into account. If I could find a way to pull al lthe data out of Tank Inspector as a flat file to do some analysis on it, I'd be able to post some info on what the real specific power (inc GR) of tanks was. If anyone knows how to pull the data out of Tank Inspector in csv or json format, pm me.

 

Anyway, gun depression of Chinese tanks: I get it, most Soviet clones had 3 degrees or so, but more love was shown to the USSR tanks in this game. So much for historical reality, eh? 


Edited by Gryphon_, May 21 2015 - 16:43.


Daigensui #18 Posted May 21 2015 - 17:01

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View PostGryphon_, on May 21 2015 - 08:42, said:

Anyway, gun depression of Chinese tanks: I get it, most Soviet clones had 3 degrees or so, but more love was shown to the USSR tanks in this game. So much for historical reality, eh? 

 

Consider it a grandfathered element from the early arcade era.



Strv74 #19 Posted May 21 2015 - 17:12

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View PostDaigensui, on May 21 2015 - 17:01, said:

 

Consider it a grandfathered element from the early arcade era.

 

But we cant nerf them now, can we. :). At least not T-34-85, with Rudy in the game.

Legiondude #20 Posted May 21 2015 - 17:52

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View PostStrv74, on May 21 2015 - 10:12, said:

 

But we cant nerf them now, can we. :). At least not T-34-85, with Rudy in the game.

T-34-85 could in theory be nerfed

 

Rudy cannot

 

It's like the Jagdtiger's glacis situation






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