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Skirmish 23

Skirmish 23

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dance210 #1 Posted Jun 04 2015 - 16:59

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Basic Tournament Information for Skirmish 23

Please see tournament page for all information

 

  • Team Size: 5 combatants + 3 reserves
  • Map: Redshire
  • Mode:  Encounter
  • Tier Point Minimum: 12
  • Tier Point Maximum: 33
  • Tier Limits:
    • This represents the max tier allowed. Teams are allowed to bring lower tiers. 
    • Light: Tier 7
    • Medium:  Tier 7
    • Heavy: Tier 7
    • TD: Tier 7
    • SPG: Tier 7
  • Special restrictions:
    • No more than two of each tank class (heavy, light, medium, SPG, TD)


SahintheFalcon #2 Posted Jun 09 2015 - 18:59

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I love tier 7s, but isn't this the third time in a year that we've had tier 7s on redshire? Not my favorite map by any means.

dance210 #3 Posted Jun 09 2015 - 19:39

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View PostSahintheFalcon, on Jun 09 2015 - 10:59, said:

I love tier 7s, but isn't this the third time in a year that we've had tier 7s on redshire? Not my favorite map by any means.

 

Second time for tier VII on Redshire in the past year (first time in 2015)...that's what happens I guess when I like Redshire :hiding:

 

Obviously can't change it for this one, but do you have any other map(s) that you like better - especially ones that I may not use as much?



Qyvk #4 Posted Jun 09 2015 - 20:31

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View Postdance210, on Jun 09 2015 - 19:39, said:

 

Second time for tier VII on Redshire in the past year (first time in 2015)...that's what happens I guess when I like Redshire :hiding:

 

Obviously can't change it for this one, but do you have any other map(s) that you like better - especially ones that I may not use as much?

 

i would like to see a tourney on province, ensk would be nice too, or map rotation like..........that early one with artic region live oaks and sand river.............maybe overlord, tundra

Scorpiany #5 Posted Jun 09 2015 - 20:52

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Good luck everyone! Below is some general information about the tournament I think you should know: (Please keep in mind that these are my opinions based off of my personal experiences. Obviously yours may differ. These are my suggestions to you, nothing here is final, and please make your own decisions with your own knowledge; this is just an overview of some of the main options available. Other tanks, strats, etc. are all possible; choose what works best for you)

 

(Tank requirements & Tier limit is in the spoiler)

 

Spoiler

 

 

The Tier point limit essentially means that you'll either be bringing (4 Tier 7's and 1 Tier 5) or (3 Tier 7's and 2 Tier 6's).

 

My suggestions for strats, tanks, etc.:

 

Strat: Since this is encounter, you will want to keep eyes on the base. That does not mean fast cap, as the base can be reset from multiple directions; but rather keep watch on it so if the enemy does try to cap, you'll be able to reset. The battle will most likely be won by spotting the enemy before they spot you, and getting a good focus crossfire going. If the enemy splits up, capitalize on that and focus the more isolated enemy down. The 1/2 lines are good for flanking without getting spotted, if you know the enemy is on the other side of the map. The hills in the middle have become battle grounds for close up brawls in the past and a lot of fighting probably will take place within that vicinity. Keep in mind however, many teams have tanks on the 8/9 lines for early spots and cross shots, and scouts will be peeking the bushes next to base and will be spotting anything left in the open. If a team splits their tanks; such as putting 3 tanks near base and 2 on the 8/9 lines for crossfire, then that's an opportunity to push on one of those groups of tanks. If you can attack them without getting stuck in the crossfire, then an isolated group of tanks can easily be surrounded and killed, with minimal casualties on your side. Any autoloaders you bring will need to dump their clips and get away as soon as possible, an autoloading tank has great carry potential if it survives. Personally, I would prioritize focus fire on tanks in this order:

  • 1) Tanks without any supporting fire; as they're easiest to kill without taking any damage in return.
  • 2) Autoloading tanks. If you can kill them before they can dump their cliips, you will save your team a lot of HP. Also, killing them before they escape whilst keeping your own autoloaders alive means that you will have a significant damage output advantage.
  • 3) Mobile, fast-firing tanks with DPM. Taking out their DPM tanks will take out a lot of their damage potential
  • 4) Mobile tanks with good camo without DPM. (e.g. T20's with the 90mm). Whilst a T20 with the 76mm has good DPM, a T20 with the 90mm does not - thus you should first kill the 76mm T20, and leave the 90mm for later as it won't be able to hurt your team as much as the 76mm T20 can.
  • 5) Slow, heavy tanks. Unless you catch these out in the open early on and can kill them before they set up, you really don't have to worry too much about slower, heavier tanks. They are easy to out-spot, out-run and in some cases out-circle. Obviously killing T29's, especially in a close up encounter is very important, however at the end of the battle, I'd rather have our remaining tank / tanks be facing a T29 rather than a Comet; and I'd rather face a Comet over a Bulldog. The T29 can be out-circled and out-spotted, the Comet can't... and the Bulldog has the most damage potential of all three, whilst maintaining that camo and mobility.

 

Ultimately, a flanking push along the 6 line was the meta for the Tier 6 Redshire Encounter tournament a while back, where medium tanks were used. Now that other tanks are avaiable, things may very well change, but the last Tier 7 Redshire Encounter I saw with such a multitude of tanks available also had a lot of 6 line attacks going on. Multiple teams had things on the 8/9 line, and a few pushed the 1/2 line. Those which capped usually failed unless they had an 8/9 line crossfire going, in which case they were isolated and one of the two groups of enemies could be pushed. Heavy tanks usually were near the back-end of the base or hull-down on the 8/9 line as well. Obviously, what you choose as a strat will depend on your tank comp. 6 line just seems to be one of those "key areas" for many teams, at least based on what I've seen on this map in the past.

 

Tanks: You'll definitely want a level of mobility and flexibility, as this is an open map - slow tanks won't be all that beneficial apart from the T29 for hull-down tactics. As for light tanks, seeing as you can bring two of them, I would definitely bring 2 autoloaders, probably Bullidogs. Just keep in mind that once their clips are empty, if they haven't crippled the enemy enough then your team is down two guns until they reload yet again. A Bulldog and a T71 seems like a very good combo, that way you have both clip size and reload speed available; T71 takes half the time to reload for fewer shells.

 

Light Tanks:

  • Bulldog: Very fast, good camo and a very large clip in the autoloader that can dish out 1,500 damage in 20 seconds. Extremely efficient, but also extremely long reload - make sure the Bulldogs can get to safety once they've dumped their whole clip.
  • T71: Only 6 shells in the clip, but also only a 17 second reload; less than half of the Bulldog's reload. This gives the T71 more DPM and also more flexibility; it can afford to reload it's clip, and if it needs to run away, it can be back in the fight in about 15 seconds, dishing out more damage. Just keep in mind that the T71 cannot one-clip every Tier 7 it encounters; it only has 900 damage in 10 seconds. Whist that's still very good and the quicker reload gives it more flexibility, it can't solo a full HP all on it's own as the Bulldog can; it's more of a support tank. Also, the T71's stats are mostly inferior to the Bulldog's aside from the DPM and the fact that it's a significantly smaller target.
  • LTTB - The armor can get some lucky bounces, the mobility is very nice to have, and the gun packs a punch. The lack of gun depression may very well be an issue on this map however. Whilst an LTTB can keep the damage output going without ever having to stop for a lengthy reload like autoloaders, it also doesn't have as much "burst damage", and it will take longer to kill an enemy. LTTB can snipe effectively or can pack a good punch up close however, as long as you can work around that measly 3 degrees of gun depression.
  • MT-25 - With the 37mm autoloader, the MT-25 can bring 1,200 damage in 10 seconds to the playing field... however, the gun is only effective really at ranges below 150m, and the penetration is an astounding.... 62... with APCR... Also, the reload is extremely long, at 37 seconds. The amount of damage it dishes out, in the short period of time that it can do so means that it can and usually will win a one vs. one fight with a Bulldog, T71, etc. It can also be devastating against Comets, T20's, T23E3's, etc... however, it's very, very situational. The tank is essentially confined to very close range engagements, it has poor camo and is very prone to drifting. The armor won't be over-matched, but it won't bounce things nearly as often as the LTTB can. If you have a competent MT-25 driver that you trust to be able to dump that clip into something that it can penetrate, then the MT-25 is a game-changer. However, do not bring more than one, do load all APCR, and make sure that the MT-25 won't have to deal with tanks with armor. And ultimately, it's not nearly as reliable. If it's focused down before it can dump the clip, or if it messes up it's clip, then it's useless - if it flops, it flops hard. When it works, it works extremely well, when it doesn't, it doesn't work at all.
  • Frenchies - Honestly, the French autoloading lights are vastly inferior to the American autoloading lights.
  • Aufkl.Panther - It's gun packs a punch, the armor can bounce a few things, but it's huge and it's clunky. The only thing it's really good for is ramming the crapout of enemy lights and mediums. Don't bring one, but if you see one on the enemy team, make sure that you stay out of it's path, it can easily ram your Bulldogs for over half of their HP without taking more than 100 damage in return. If the enemy brings one as a suicide rocket, stay out of its way; even T29's will take significant damage from being rammed by it.
  • T37 - A good autoloading light tank. The camo values are low, but the damage out-put and mobility is very nice. It's faster than an AMX 12t and the gun is more devastating... however, it's also a lot larger, thus much easier to hit. The single fire gun is also pretty good, and can provide good support fire whilst your autoloaders or longer reload tanks are clipping / reloading.

Medium tanks:

  • T23E3 - Good DPM, decent mobility, decent camo, will definitely need APCR
  • T20 - I'd use the 76mm with APCR for that DPM, the 90mm has good alpha damage, but aside taking out decent chunks of enemy HP early, the 90mm just won't be able to win the DPM and burst damage fight that will most likely occur later on.
  • Comet - Turret armor is surprisingly trolly, the tank in general is pretty decent with a good gun.
  • Cromwell - If you need a Tier 6, Cromwell is a good tank to bring - just keep in mind it has horrible gun handling, and the gun points upwards if it's pointed to the rear. To the front and sides however, it has good gun depression, and the tank has mobility
  • Easy 8 - It worked fairly well with that DPM, same DPM as the T23E3, T20 with the 76mm, etc. The tank is mobile as well, just a relatively large target; and the turret armor won't bounce as much as the Comet's will.
  • M7 - If you're looking to bring a Tier 5 tank, M7's the one. It has mobility, camo (better camo than the Bulldog!), and good DPM and APCR penetration. It's a competitive Tier 5, but when fighting Tier 7's, it's also fairly fragile; it can't take more than a few hits before being knocked out. It's a good support tank, but it will be a disadvantage if the enemy is able to focus it down early. Keep it alive however, and it will keep the damage going.

 

Tank Destroyers:

  • E-25 - Fast, has very good camo, very good accuracy, DPM, etc. The penetration isn't the best, but considering it's a Tier 7 tournament, you'll be fine; especially if you load APCR. 7 degrees of gun depression is also the same as on the T71, so that's always nice to have. The lack of a turret will be the one downsside, especially in a close up encounter. If you can keep the tank sniping effectively, it will get a lot of damage done.
  • SU-122-44 - Good frontal armor that can bounce most Tier 7's AP, and most APCR rounds when angled... the gun has 4,000 DPM with BIA, Vents, Rammer, 100% Crew, etc. However, the accuracy and aiming times aren't the greatest, so you might not be able to put that full DPM to use - if the rounds hit, they hit hard for 390; and the penetration is more than enough for Tier 7. It can be circled however, and is limited. At close range, it can be focused down easily and circled - at long range, the gun just won't be able to hit as hard as you'd like it to. Also, the gun depression is limited. If you use it, you'll need to be able to balance it's survivability with effective range for it to be able to make full usage of its DPM.
  • T67 - If you're going to bring a Tier 5, a T67 can make a good support sniper, however the .41 accuracy isn't the greatest... against slower tanks, or against tanks which are in the open, you have a lot of options; and the camo is also a very redeeming feature of the tank. However, with the view range nerf and overall sluggish traverse and turret traverse (great acceleration and top speed though), you are limited in what a T67 can do. It brings DPM, camo and gun depression, but that's about it. If you bring a Tier 5, I'd much rather use an M7, as it has more HP, more flexibility, and can provide a lot better focus fire, as it isn't forced to keep the same distance from the battle as the T67 would be.

 

Heavy Tanks:

  • T29 - Great turret armor with a gun that packs a punch. The hull will bounce regular rounds, especially at a distance, but APCR will still punch through it. It can side-scrape,, but this is an open map with the meta being mobility, camo and DPM, so it won't be able to side-scrape either. It's most effectively for hull-down, whether holding near the base or the 8/9 line. Just keep in mind that it can easily be out-spotted and out-circled on flat ground.
  • Tiger - Great HP, great DPM, but that's about it. If this was a city map, Tiger could be very effective... however, it will be easily out-spotted, out-circled and killed. I see no real usage for the Tiger.

 

SPG's:

  • Don't. Meta being fast tanks with good camo means that your SPG's won't be able to hit anything. Unless you know for a fact that the enemy is going to bring very slow heavy tanks and turtle them on cap, in which an FV304 could be useful to break the cap turtle, then there is zero usage for them... and, if the enemy does not bring those heavies you expected, then you are at a massive disadvantage. Do not bring SPG's.

 

Other: Personally, I recommend 3 Tier 7's and 2 Tier 6's; that way you'll be able to have more hit points and more durable tanks. However, Tier 7's are obviously more competitive than Tier 6's, so having 4 of them is also nice - depending on your lineup, strategy, etc. you may or may not want 4 Tier 7's and a Tier 5. Tier 5's will be strictly support tanks, whereas Tier 6's will be able to get closer to the action, share HP and really help with focus fire.


Edited by Scorpiany, Jun 09 2015 - 23:28.


TastyPastry #6 Posted Jun 09 2015 - 21:23

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Even after he sells the tank, he still advocates for the MT-25...

Scorpiany #7 Posted Jun 09 2015 - 21:44

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View PostTastyPastry, on Jun 09 2015 - 13:23, said:

Even after he sells the tank, he still advocates for the MT-25...

 

I said it's an option, but it's extremely situational, and not nearly as reliable as other tanks. Essentially, use at your own risk / test your luck. When it works, it works well and will send the enemy to hell and back, and then back down to hell again. However, when it fails... it fails face-desk level hard.

PotatoLegend99 #8 Posted Jun 10 2015 - 06:19

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View PostScorpiany, on Jun 09 2015 - 12:52, said:

 

 

You don't like the Kv-13?

Slayer_Jesse #9 Posted Jun 10 2015 - 07:32

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given the options, i think i'd opt for a pair of bulldogs, pair of comets, and a T67, since it can hide and snipe pretty well, and will most likely be shooting soft targets anyway.

 

not sure if ill actually do the tournament though, as maps with alot of concealment can be hard to do well on.


Edited by Slayer_Jesse, Jun 10 2015 - 07:33.


moshker #10 Posted Jun 11 2015 - 23:24

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The AMX 13 75 did recently receive a buff and has far better camo, dpm, accuracy, and prem round than the Bulldog. Also the 13 57 might be interesting. Not that I think the Frenchies are better, but with recent buffs it might be worth re-examining.





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