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Panzer IV or M4 Sherman ?


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Izamal #1 Posted Jun 24 2011 - 18:32

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Edit: I have changed the tile of the thread since "PZIV vs M4 Sherman" sounds like I'm interested in a comparison of how they do against each other in a fight. That isn't what I was looking for but any response is welcome.

Sorry if this has been threaded already.

Putting aside any tank access past them in the tree. I was just wondering how the two compare out in the real game from folks who have played both of them. I realize people have fun with both of them, just want some real game perspectives.

Thanks.

RolandVH #2 Posted Jun 24 2011 - 18:43

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Fully upgraded, the Panzer IV is a long-range killer, capable of taking down most enemies of its tier before they can get into their effective ranges.

I don't have a 'normal' M4, but I do have the M4A2E4 Beta Tank, and I tend to have to get much closer to be effective with it. I'd guess that's true of the normal M4.

DingBat #3 Posted Jun 24 2011 - 18:48

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This is almost an apples and oranges comparison. They're both medium tanks, but I believe, used in their best niche, they have different primary strengths.

The Panzer IV, with the L70, is a deadly sniper. It will hit at really long range, and hit hard.

I had the most success with a Sherman with the 105mm "derp" gun. Nowhere near as accurate, but when it hits, it messes things up.

If your style is more to flanking and sniping, go for the PzIV. If you like to mix it up and smack people in the face, get a derp Sherman. Actually, my advice is to get both. The e8 and vk3601, which lead from both, are also excellent tanks. You can't go wrong.

25Spartanspearman25 #4 Posted Jun 24 2011 - 18:52

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well, haven't had the PzIV before, but the Sherman with 105mmm really packs a punch and is sure to leave a big scar in your enemies. If a Sherman is able to sneak up on a sniping PzIV then it's totally gonna win. If the PzIV spots it first though the PzIV will snipe it. Really they're both pretty even so it really depends on the tanker and the situation.

Cstriker01 #5 Posted Jun 24 2011 - 19:23

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In beta I rocked a PzIV and VK3601, but I am curious as to the performance of the M4 and "Easy 8" as well...tempted to try another country as I get back into playing this after a couple month hiatus. I ran up the russian tree to the T-43, but I hear good things about the U.S. medium tree. How do they stack up compared to the german?

TheDude101 #6 Posted Jun 24 2011 - 19:56

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PzIV is a sniping beast, M4 is a close up brawler with that 105 derp. They're two different beasts. I run a PzIV with a rammer, vent 100% crew and binos - the ROF, accuracy and penetration is insane. Almost as fast as the Easy 8 with the same setup. Plus with the PzIV you can easily snipe from 500+ meters away and have a descent chance at penetrating.

Now I can't speak for the M4 as I've never played it, only against it - if it gets up close to my PzIV it messes me up - bad lol.

I do however, have the Easy 8 and VKP and VK3601H. Again, different beasts. The Easy 8 is a great flanker because of its ROF and good penetration on side armor. You can usually get 3-5 shots off with its machinegun like ROF before people can adjust and turn to bear. The 3601 can take a lot more hits and bounce more than the Easy 8, but the 88 is only a descent cannon. With the tanks your stacked up against on a normal basis you'll have a hard time penetrating any front armor, and it's a bit difficult with the 3601 to get to the sides.

The VKP is a speedy little devil with the front mounted turret makes it a charm in CQB knife fighting. And if you play it like a T6 scout (due to its speed with the top engine) you can really mess things up.

VK3001H I've never played as I've always skipped it, but it seems like it's also a fairly awesome tank.

For the Russian side - I just got the T34-85 and I'm still learning how to play it correctly...the 100mm is decently accurate for a Russian cannon, and its got pretty descent speed and ok armor. Seems like it's a mix between a brawler and a sniper - I can't really decide yet.

The T-34 on the other hand, if you have the 54mm ZIS, vent, rammer and a good crew - you can mess any tank up on the sides provided you can live to get there lol.

Izamal #7 Posted Jun 24 2011 - 19:58

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Yeah, I know about the reputation of the PZIV as a sniper. I primarily play TDs and thus figure the PZIV would suit my play style better but the M4 also sounds like fun. I swear the PZIV is the bain of my TDs, I hate those things  :angry:

I have a T34 and T34-85 but rarily play them cause of the matches I get put in. I know it would be the same with either the PZIV or M4 but at least with the PZIV I could hang back and snipe.

Thanks for the input.

BeWEIRd #8 Posted Jun 24 2011 - 22:55

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IMHO the sherman with the 105 will take down the pz 4 at close range any day; if the sherman has the long tier 6(76mm i believe) and is farther away it depends purely on the tanker and cover, this is from playing only a few games in pz 4 and selling it but ive played endlesly on my sherman

Mitt_Rommel #9 Posted Jun 24 2011 - 23:23

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Word of caution, PzIV's have NO side armor. Sherman 105's tend to penetrate for, pardon the phrase, massive damage. (any follow up shot, whether it's turret front or another side shot, is lethal)
They can even die outright with a good damage roll, or, maybe when I've done that I ammo racked him since the HE did EXPLODE inside the hull.


PzIV's with the long-range drop on M4's isn't even a contest. I prefer the PzIV because BOTH are sluggish but all things being equal, the pen, damage and rate of fire on the PzIV is more reliable than a 105, though mini-derps can be great fun in their own right. The M4 prints more credits on account of having about 1-2K cheaper repairs.

If you simply ask yourself: which of these 2 can I bring in a game and solo a KV-2? That's the PzIV; it will wreck everything in and below it's tier in 5 shots and while that may sound like quite a bit, the rate of fire and accuracy make it very possible. Needless to say, I'm only considering a PzIV with the top-turret and long-75. Everything else is just an uparmored PzIII or underengined PzIII/IV in my book.

Also, buyer beware. You've probably seen M4A3E8's driving around like pirates broadsiding people with that machine gun 76, right? You cannot do that in the M4A1 on account of really MEH power-to-weight ratio. That's what I meant by sluggish and it was an initial killjoy to using the tank.



In summary, I'd say it's not quite a coin flip -- the PzIV is better- but playstyle might sway you one way or another. The PzIV has better combat power (lethality and survivability) and is only a little bit more sluggish. But the M4 does pack 2 good gun options (the M1A1 75mm is serviceable enough if you're not grossly under-tiered), generates credits better and has great gun elevation and depression which gives you the power to reverse slope better and other tactical advantages.

Personally, I got rid of my M4 cause I only need so many low-tier tanks in my garage and I prefer the PzIV in tier 5. The Super Sherman though? One of the funnest tanks to drive, especially with vent, rammer and a gun stabilizer. Rate of fire is STUPID and when lady luck's on your side, aiming is optional.  :Smile-playing:

Boneduster #10 Posted Jun 25 2011 - 02:35

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PzIV is the most overpowered german tank...

Can screw a KV from 500mts away on 4 shots and that`s just like 5 seconds lol.

M4 is so dangerous in CQC but can`t compete on pzIV on a 1 vs 1... the pzIV will screw the M4 in seconds before him to even get on a effective hit range on most of situations...

They only serius drawback of pzIV is the armor, and almost all arty can 1 shot you out. Besides, if you dominate the tank you can even win in CQC with some other tanks like the M4 himself... LOL i even win against a KV at less of a 100mtrs with the L75... but well, that`s the hell of a bad KV driver xD!

AragornSkywalker #11 Posted Jun 25 2011 - 04:08

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I 1-shotted a P4 in my derpman today lol. Really though, completely different play styles. I personally hate sitting and sniping, so I prefer the derpman. I dont think the P4 is overpowered. Its good training for german tank style. If you hate it even once its elited, you should probably go switch factions.

PrivateBozo #12 Posted Jun 25 2011 - 05:44

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I have both and have both the VK3601 and Easy8.

I like the Sherman with the top 75 gun, not the derp gun.  Great rate of fire, good penetration.  With the upgraded engine, 100% crew, you're a mean run and gunner.

The PZ4 when fully upgraded is great.  Seems a little weak right now because of the tank balances showing up in the matches.  So many high tier tanks around.  It's got a great gun.  You can punch a lot of people. Doesn't take a good hit though and two often knock it out.

Overall though, I liked the sherman more. I lived more and did more damage.  And... a side benefit.  The M4 Sherman easily generates twice the net credit as the PzIV.  At least for me.

AragornSkywalker #13 Posted Jun 25 2011 - 06:50

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I like the sherman because I like being able to raise and lower my turret.

Cstriker01 #14 Posted Jun 25 2011 - 17:02

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Well having come back to the game now I am tempted to not go russian this time around but instead grab my Tigers again and work towards the Easy 8 on the U.S. side. Russia was fun, but it's time for something new.

Question though: when working towards the Easy 8, which is a quicker grind for the U.S.? Medium line with the M4 and the LEE? or go light line with the Stuarts? I hated Hated HATED :angry: the A-20 when I was working on the russian medium lines and I DO NOT want a repeat of that piece of crap. Is the U.S. light line a lot of the same?

Pyre #15 Posted Jun 26 2011 - 01:07

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I drive a Pz IV and i destroy m4s all the time. ive never been killed by an m4, as far as i know, but i do have respect for the vehicle. It probably could rough me up a bit, considered just a few minutes ago i got one-shotted by a Stug. III......

Q_res #16 Posted Jun 26 2011 - 01:20

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With the 105 on my Sherman, I can consistently one-shot Panzer IVs, as in I one-shot them more than I don't, if I get a shot at anything but the front. Of course, the L70 can take me out in 2 shots, and the Pz4s 105 can one-shot me as well.

ZiggyDeath #17 Posted Jun 26 2011 - 07:33

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Pretty much a toss up.

The Sherman is a better 105mm howitzer platform.
The Panzer IV is a better sniping platform.

However, in terms of say... overall vehicle performance and flexibility, it sways more in favor towards the Sherman.

AragornSkywalker #18 Posted Jun 26 2011 - 10:29

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View PostCstriker01, on Jun 25 2011 - 17:02, said:

Well having come back to the game now I am tempted to not go russian this time around but instead grab my Tigers again and work towards the Easy 8 on the U.S. side. Russia was fun, but it's time for something new.

Question though: when working towards the Easy 8, which is a quicker grind for the U.S.? Medium line with the M4 and the LEE? or go light line with the Stuarts? I hated Hated HATED :angry: the A-20 when I was working on the russian medium lines and I DO NOT want a repeat of that piece of crap. Is the U.S. light line a lot of the same?
You are going to hate both. Best option is to bank 15k and skip both.

Reiter #19 Posted Jun 26 2011 - 21:14

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View PostCstriker01, on Jun 25 2011 - 17:02, said:

Well having come back to the game now I am tempted to not go russian this time around but instead grab my Tigers again and work towards the Easy 8 on the U.S. side. Russia was fun, but it's time for something new.

Question though: when working towards the Easy 8, which is a quicker grind for the U.S.? Medium line with the M4 and the LEE? or go light line with the Stuarts? I hated Hated HATED :angry: the A-20 when I was working on the russian medium lines and I DO NOT want a repeat of that piece of crap. Is the U.S. light line a lot of the same?
Go through the Lee, its not bad but it is game play as a terrible designed TD.  It nets you the M4 Sherman, T1 Heavy->American heavy line, and the M4-8 Sherman, where as the stuarts will have you acting the part of a scout and if you didn't like the A-20 then the Stuarts might not be as fun.  M7 is pretty fun, but its a heavy light not medium really and has thin armor that pairs you up with IS/Tigers/T29 at tier 7 which pack very powerful guns to your measily 350 hitpoints (it can pull off circle fighting them, but I find its just annoying to jerk around with some guy that bounces, critical-zero damage, bounce, DAMAGE!, critical-zero damage, damage with a high fire gun).

DeadLight #20 Posted Jun 27 2011 - 12:04

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I Have Used Alot of tanks but i just say this i have always came back to The PzIV.Lest with me it does everything and its fun to Play.Its my goto tank when i feel like haveing some real fun.Even When im in Higher tier Match i seem to do better with it