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Italian Tech Tree


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DarkPyroNinja #1 Posted Aug 17 2015 - 00:01

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This has been posted many times before, and I understand that. The original one that I first saw was taken down/archived, and now I can't find it.


Note that my Tech Tree may be different from many others, and will be a Work In Progress. I currently do not have many tier 6+ tanks, so WG can "upgrade" some of them. Many of you will argue on some of my choices, but I will try to keep it as historical as I can find. Even though it isn't a trustable site(sometimes), I use Wikipedia sites. If you show me another site with more historical information, I MAY change it. It all depends on if it is worthy, or not.


I will have a Spreadsheet and a Word Document. Spreadsheet will have the Tech Tree, and the Document will have the Wiki pages, tank values, and tier.


ALL OF THIS IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE!


Thank you for browsing, and feel free to add your opinion/other tanks.

(KEY)

Light tanks- Light green

Medium tanks- Dark Green

Heavy tanks- Red

Tank Destroyers- Blue

Artillery- Purple

Premiums- Orange

Others(such as tankettes, or such)- Pink


Edited by DarkPyroNinja, Aug 17 2015 - 00:19.


DarkPyroNinja #2 Posted Aug 17 2015 - 00:03

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Res.

DarkPyroNinja #3 Posted Aug 17 2015 - 00:03

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Another reserved.

Xeraux #4 Posted Aug 17 2015 - 00:08

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Reserved before you reserve it.

Donward #5 Posted Aug 17 2015 - 00:19

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Oh boy. Just what we need on the HAV. An Italian tank tree thread.

Life_In_Black #6 Posted Aug 17 2015 - 00:28

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Oh god, another one. Look, to save a whole lot of grief and aggravation, could we not have another Italian tech tree idea? Inevitably, there's little research done outside of wikipedia, no one bothers to actually look at the abilities of the vehicles compared to the ones already in the game, and there are questionable upgrade and tech choices that have little bearing on reality. Literally, this is the best that Italy has to offer within the confines of the game:

 

And even then, the tier 8 M47 variant will never happen since Wargaming has the M26 and M46 way overbuffed in the American tech tree. And to forestall any argument, there's no way at all for the Pesanti vehicles to work as heavies, not given the other heavies in the game, and making them heavies is not only pointless given the lack of high tier heavies, but also completely guts the medium line. Oh, and the heaviest cannon mounted on any of the L.3/33/35/38 is a 20mm Solothurn or a 20mm Breda, so even at tier 1 it would be extremely weak.



DarkPyroNinja #7 Posted Aug 17 2015 - 00:32

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View PostLife_In_Black, on Aug 16 2015 - 17:28, said:

Oh god, another one. Look, to save a whole lot of grief and aggravation, could we not have another Italian tech tree idea? Inevitably, there's little research done outside of wikipedia, no one bothers to actually look at the abilities of the vehicles compared to the ones already in the game, and there are questionable upgrade and tech choices that have little bearing on reality. Literally, this is the best that Italy has to offer within the confines of the game:

 

And even then, the tier 8 M47 variant will never happen since Wargaming has the M26 and M46 way overbuffed in the American tech tree. And to forestall any argument, there's no way at all for the Pesanti vehicles to work as heavies, not given the other heavies in the game, and making them heavies is not only pointless given the lack of high tier heavies, but also completely guts the medium line. Oh, and the heaviest cannon mounted on any of the L.3/33/35/38 is a 20mm Solothurn or a 20mm Breda, so even at tier 1 it would be extremely weak.

 

Thank you for that. If you could show me the actual topic, if it is on here, I could add to this. Either that, or this could be added to mine. To be honest, I would classify the Pesanti's as mediums, no matter if Italy said it as heavies or not.

Edited by DarkPyroNinja, Aug 17 2015 - 00:34.


DarkPyroNinja #8 Posted Aug 17 2015 - 00:36

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I'm sorry you guys are annoyed. I did not mean this to be that way. Just wanted to show my view of it. :(

Life_In_Black #9 Posted Aug 17 2015 - 00:39

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View PostDarkPyroNinja, on Aug 16 2015 - 19:32, said:

 

Thank you for that. If you could show me the actual topic, if it is on here, I could add to this. Either that, or this could be added to mine. To be honest, I would classify the Pesanti's as mediums, no matter if Italy said it as heavies or not.

 

There have been quite a number of threads on Italian tanks over the past few years, which is why I have no tolerance for them anymore. There's nothing personal against you, and I apologize if I came across as too harsh, it's just been an ongoing thing as I hardly ever see anybody put real research into the tanks and vehicles when they make these threads. As for proper threads on the subject, there are more or less two competing threads in the in-game vehicle comparison section of the forum, one is mine, the other belongs to another poster named Vollketten. I disagree strongly with quite a number of Vollketten's ideas and tiering, and I quite honestly feel he wants an Italian tech tree in the game at all costs, no matter how realistic or historical it might be.

Donward #10 Posted Aug 17 2015 - 00:41

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Italian Tech Trees are kind of a running joke around these parts, second only to Wehraboos who mindlessly trump German armor.

You wandered into the wrong neighborhood.

:-)

DarkPyroNinja #11 Posted Aug 17 2015 - 00:43

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View PostLife_In_Black, on Aug 16 2015 - 17:39, said:

 

There have been quite a number of threads on Italian tanks over the past few years, which is why I have no tolerance for them anymore. There's nothing personal against you, and I apologize if I came across as too harsh, it's just been an ongoing thing as I hardly ever see anybody put real research into the tanks and vehicles when they make these threads. As for proper threads on the subject, there are more or less two competing threads in the in-game vehicle comparison section of the forum, one is mine, the other belongs to another poster named Vollketten. I disagree strongly with quite a number of Vollketten's ideas and tiering, and I quite honestly feel he wants an Italian tech tree in the game at all costs, no matter how realistic or historical it might be.

 

It's fine, I understand. To me, it's the only other nation I would want in-game. Czechoslovakian and Swedish tanks are coming, so this could be a 2019+ idea.

Life_In_Black #12 Posted Aug 17 2015 - 00:52

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View PostDarkPyroNinja, on Aug 16 2015 - 19:43, said:

 

It's fine, I understand. To me, it's the only other nation I would want in-game. Czechoslovakian and Swedish tanks are coming, so this could be a 2019+ idea.

 

I want Italy in the game quite a bit too, but the other nation I really want added is Israel, as Israel can make a full tech tree without too much trouble and would be both quite competitive, and quite valuable for historical battles. But anyway, I should add that my Italian vehicle thread is in dire need of updating as I had originally wanted Italy placed in the German tech tree. Given that both Hungary and now Switzerland are most likely going to be in the German tech tree it seems, that's no longer a valid option I don't think. But something like the tech tree I posted above is quite accurate as to what Italy has to offer. There's a possibility the arty line could be completed as well, but that's not exactly a priority for the game and doesn't really make Italy any more of a viable tech tree for Wargaming.

 

Now that being said, the M24 Chaffee was operated by Italy too, and Spain operated both the M41 Walker Bulldog and the M47 Patton, so given the recent trend of combining nations together, if Spain is added to the Italian tech tree, tier 7 and 8 light tanks are available, which only leaves a gap at tier 7 that could be filled without too much trouble. Plus the Spanish upgrades to the M47 mirror those of OTO-Melara, namely the M60 engine and transmission, as well as the 105mm L7, so it would make sense to combine the two. It's actually a good thing that Italy is so far out yet, as it gives more time to finalize things and make them work rather than trying to rush things and making a mess of it.



DarkPyroNinja #13 Posted Aug 17 2015 - 00:57

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I just looked into other areas... Guess I shouldn 't have posted this in the first place. My ideas probably have no use here, as they most likely have been posted already, and the ones that haven't, are not as good.

View PostLife_In_Black, on Aug 16 2015 - 17:52, said:

 

I want Italy in the game quite a bit too, but the other nation I really want added is Israel, as Israel can make a full tech tree without too much trouble and would be both quite competitive, and quite valuable for historical battles. But anyway, I should add that my Italian vehicle thread is in dire need of updating as I had originally wanted Italy placed in the German tech tree. Given that both Hungary and now Switzerland are most likely going to be in the German tech tree it seems, that's no longer a valid option I don't think. But something like the tech tree I posted above is quite accurate as to what Italy has to offer. There's a possibility the arty line could be completed as well, but that's not exactly a priority for the game and doesn't really make Italy any more of a viable tech tree for Wargaming.

 

Now that being said, the M24 Chaffee was operated by Italy too, and Spain operated both the M41 Walker Bulldog and the M47 Patton, so given the recent trend of combining nations together, if Spain is added to the Italian tech tree, tier 7 and 8 light tanks are available, which only leaves a gap at tier 7 that could be filled without too much trouble. Plus the Spanish upgrades to the M47 mirror those of OTO-Melara, namely the M60 engine and transmission, as well as the 105mm L7, so it would make sense to combine the two. It's actually a good thing that Italy is so far out yet, as it gives more time to finalize things and make them work rather than trying to rush things and making a mess of it.

 

Yeah. Could be an idea.



Life_In_Black #14 Posted Aug 17 2015 - 01:03

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View PostDarkPyroNinja, on Aug 16 2015 - 19:57, said:

I just looked into other areas... Guess I shouldn 't have posted this in the first place. My ideas probably have no use here, as they most likely have been posted already, and the ones that haven't, are not as good.

 

Yeah. Could be an idea.

 

Don't feel bad, there's nothing wrong with more people looking into things and doing research. You're already far more intelligent than most of the people I've seen. Liek the people who simply stack one Italian vehicle after another culminating in a tier 10 P.26/40. Most of them have no self awareness as to why these ideas might be bad either, citing China as an example of how Wargaming could just use foreign vehicles to flesh out a tech tree. In Italy's case, as can be seen, foreign vehicles are already needed just to make a single medium branch, and would probably needed to flesh out that artillery branch, there are no other foreign vehicles that solve any of Italy's problems, but that doesn't stop people from making such statements. The other thing I've seen quite a lot of, is saying the C1 Ariete could be a tier 10 Italian tank, because you know, a modern MBT with composite armor and a 120mm smoothbore is totally suitable for the game. So once again, I apologize for coming across as harshly as I did as I don't mean to stifle any creativity here.

DarkPyroNinja #15 Posted Aug 17 2015 - 01:10

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View PostLife_In_Black, on Aug 16 2015 - 18:03, said:

 

Don't feel bad, there's nothing wrong with more people looking into things and doing research. You're already far more intelligent than most of the people I've seen. Liek the people who simply stack one Italian vehicle after another culminating in a tier 10 P.26/40. Most of them have no self awareness as to why these ideas might be bad either, citing China as an example of how Wargaming could just use foreign vehicles to flesh out a tech tree. In Italy's case, as can be seen, foreign vehicles are already needed just to make a single medium branch, and would probably needed to flesh out that artillery branch, there are no other foreign vehicles that solve any of Italy's problems, but that doesn't stop people from making such statements. The other thing I've seen quite a lot of, is saying the C1 Ariete could be a tier 10 Italian tank, because you know, a modern MBT with composite armor and a 120mm smoothbore is totally suitable for the game. So once again, I apologize for coming across as harshly as I did as I don't mean to stifle any creativity here.

 

It isn't your fault. I didn't know that there were fully fledged topics, such as yours. Everyone disses the Italians anyway.



Life_In_Black #16 Posted Aug 17 2015 - 01:32

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View PostDarkPyroNinja, on Aug 16 2015 - 20:10, said:

 

It isn't your fault. I didn't know that there were fully fledged topics, such as yours. Everyone disses the Italians anyway.

 

Yeah, that's something else I don't like. The Italian frogmen were some of the best, and the Bersaglieri were as good as any other nation's forces. By the same token however, quite a number of people tend to dismiss China's contribution to WWII, even though they took quite a beating against the Japanese and helped tie down large chunks of the Japanese military.

Legiondude #17 Posted Aug 17 2015 - 09:15

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View PostDarkPyroNinja, on Aug 16 2015 - 18:01, said:

This has been posted many times before, and I understand that. The original one that I first saw was taken down/archived, and now I can't find it.

Volk's megathread is over here

 

LiB's thread is over here



TheHunter2_EAD #18 Posted Jun 04 2017 - 17:02

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http://www.militaryf...alian-tanks.asp

Here some idea's. if u need help to revive this forum.



TheHunter2_EAD #19 Posted Jun 09 2017 - 21:28

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I bet WT will get Italian tanks first before WoT

TheHunter2_EAD #20 Posted Jun 27 2017 - 21:51

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View PostLife_In_Black, on Aug 16 2015 - 18:28, said:

Oh god, another one. Look, to save a whole lot of grief and aggravation, could we not have another Italian tech tree idea? Inevitably, there's little research done outside of wikipedia, no one bothers to actually look at the abilities of the vehicles compared to the ones already in the game, and there are questionable upgrade and tech choices that have little bearing on reality. Literally, this is the best that Italy has to offer within the confines of the game:

 

And even then, the tier 8 M47 variant will never happen since Wargaming has the M26 and M46 way overbuffed in the American tech tree. And to forestall any argument, there's no way at all for the Pesanti vehicles to work as heavies, not given the other heavies in the game, and making them heavies is not only pointless given the lack of high tier heavies, but also completely guts the medium line. Oh, and the heaviest cannon mounted on any of the L.3/33/35/38 is a 20mm Solothurn or a 20mm Breda, so even at tier 1 it would be extremely weak.

 

​Let's Start with Med tank line first then go from there 




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