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Want to win more? Crew Skills by the Numbers

SaskO Want to win more crew skills crew skills

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luver2 #21 Posted Oct 06 2015 - 22:52

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OK.  OK.  Enuf gents(?). :arta:

This thread was started for & has been of help.   It has been for many of us.  It has provided a framework to figure out productive paths + as important, how NOT is piss away too much money learning EVERYTHING from scratch.  As to many of us have had to do.  :angry:
 

If U have more than 3-4000 battles under your belt, U know WofT loves making their customers learn the hard way especially since one cannot undo any mistakes/errors w/o spending more ________(!).

At least i looked this subject up & was able to reset a bunch of less-than-best crews while WofT was running a 50% discount. ;) 

Eased the pain of "wising up" & implementing much of the above.  Plus i'm armed with a MUCH better basis/framework upon which to make future crew decisions.  Like on the 2 new vehicles i bot over the weekend(!). :child:

 

So thanks again for the thread & (some of) add-on info many of U took the time to pass on.   :great:


Edited by Komandor_Ken, Oct 06 2015 - 22:54.


Sask_Outrider #22 Posted Oct 07 2015 - 00:46

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View PostKomandor_Ken, on Oct 06 2015 - 15:52, said:

OK.  OK.  Enuf gents(?). :arta:

This thread was started for & has been of help.   It has been for many of us.  It has provided a framework to figure out productive paths + as important, how NOT is piss away too much money learning EVERYTHING from scratch.  As to many of us have had to do.  :angry:
 

If U have more than 3-4000 battles under your belt, U know WofT loves making their customers learn the hard way especially since one cannot undo any mistakes/errors w/o spending more ________(!).

At least i looked this subject up & was able to reset a bunch of less-than-best crews while WofT was running a 50% discount. ;) 

Eased the pain of "wising up" & implementing much of the above.  Plus i'm armed with a MUCH better basis/framework upon which to make future crew decisions.  Like on the 2 new vehicles i bot over the weekend(!). :child:

 

So thanks again for the thread & (some of) add-on info many of U took the time to pass on.   :great:

 

Thanks for the feedback.  I try to come up with simple articles that help new people that do not entirely understand all aspects of the game.

 

The war between Taz and I seems to be an ongoing thing.  Every guide I post he feels the need to disagree so while it looks like I over reacted it stems more from past experiences.  It would be great if Taz just avoided my posts.  I don't think I have ever posted on his articles so I would expect the same from him.



Tazilon #23 Posted Oct 07 2015 - 03:58

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View PostSask_Outrider, on Oct 06 2015 - 23:46, said:

 

Thanks for the feedback.  I try to come up with simple articles that help new people that do not entirely understand all aspects of the game.

 

The war between Taz and I seems to be an ongoing thing.  Every guide I post he feels the need to disagree so while it looks like I over reacted it stems more from past experiences.  It would be great if Taz just avoided my posts.  I don't think I have ever posted on his articles so I would expect the same from him.

 

I haven't commented on the vast majority of your guides.  I disagree with the idea of doing it the "simple way" when the simple way is bad advice.  People looking to train crews for a specific tank should seek out skill advice for that specific tank as it may vary greatly from the skills one might want for a different tank.  Saying "do it this way for all tanks" hurts new players, it doesn't help them.

 

When the new skills and perks first came out I thought Mentor would be a great early skill and I wrote so in my posts - until I saw the math behind it. Then I changed my mind.   When you take a hard look at the numbers Mentor becomes much less attractive.  In order to gain a skill advantage way down the line you give up a skill now.  That is not a good trade-off as the first several skills you take provide the most benefit to your tank.   If Mentor could be a Radio Operator skill, maybe a different story, but the CO has the most good skills of any position except perhaps the driver and on many tanks doubles up with skills from other crew positions.   Mentor is a waste of a slot.

 

My opinion, to be sure.  But it was honed because of the preponderance of evidence against Mentor when the issue was hotly debated long ago when it first came out.

 

You are more than welcome to comment on any of my articles.  That is the purpose of having public forums:  ideas can be proposed and discussed in a civil manner, allowing readers to see multiple sides of issues so they can make informed decisions for themselves.  As in the case of Mentor, I have changed my mind and advice on several things because of discussion on my threads.  I have had readers point out omissions so I can add them and make a post stronger.  A good example is my post on the Myths of Scouting.  I forgot one, a reader pointed it out, so I added it.   Because of his advice, my post became even better.

 

 


Edited by Tazilon, Oct 07 2015 - 04:09.


luver2 #24 Posted Oct 07 2015 - 18:01

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Thanks to All players that take THEIR time to write anything that will help.  MUCH admire U! :great:   Especially since i HATE to write meself.

This/these discussions just prove the GAME WofT has got some things to offer.  Much of what makes ANY game fun+engaging+challenging = trade-offs

Can't do it all & some/many decisions are mutually exclusive* which makes it even more challenging & thus FUN. 

I'd venture to say, many players spend as much time in their garage + here planning/thinking/imaging & finally deciding which way to go... & enjoy doing so(!).

Hell, it's free too... well, up until one makes The Decision. :ohmy:

 

* as the late, great Yogi B said, "When u come to a fork in the road, take it."



BlitzMInc #25 Posted Oct 07 2015 - 19:25

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hey, I see Rodney and I hate when hes not on my team

the mentor makes a bit of sense to me, think ill try it, thx

 



HeroEnVec #26 Posted Oct 07 2015 - 20:56

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OP:  If you retrain your crew as much as OP wants, you are supremely stupid, and truly the cattle that WOT wishes... so thank you for paying for the servers I enjoy using.  :)

 

Also,The whole one method for all concept is pretty dumb.  I'll give you a for instance:  On high alpha low ROF tanks pick snap shot for gunner to increase the accuracy of the gun in general situations.  In tanks with low alpha and high ROF, pick deadeye to kill the crap out of modules.  Who cares about early shot accuracy if you are spamming shells at the enemy.  I've run the stats on this system, and it is effective.  Also similar in terms of camo and repair.  If you are in a tank that is slow and will be taking hits while having the health to stay in the game, use repair.  If you are in a tank which if you get hit,,, you will likely die or be catastrophically damaged, take camo.  Mind you the VAST majority of player in WOT have 2 or less skills/perks.

 

 

Also, BIA is -the- skill to have.  It is absolutely required as the 2nd skill on nearly every tank with VERY few exceptions. 



Sask_Outrider #27 Posted Oct 08 2015 - 03:43

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View PostHeroEnVec, on Oct 07 2015 - 13:56, said:

OP:  If you retrain your crew as much as OP wants, you are supremely stupid, and truly the cattle that WOT wishes... so thank you for paying for the servers I enjoy using.  :)

 

Also,The whole one method for all concept is pretty dumb.  I'll give you a for instance:  On high alpha low ROF tanks pick snap shot for gunner to increase the accuracy of the gun in general situations.  In tanks with low alpha and high ROF, pick deadeye to kill the crap out of modules.  Who cares about early shot accuracy if you are spamming shells at the enemy.  I've run the stats on this system, and it is effective.  Also similar in terms of camo and repair.  If you are in a tank that is slow and will be taking hits while having the health to stay in the game, use repair.  If you are in a tank which if you get hit,,, you will likely die or be catastrophically damaged, take camo.  Mind you the VAST majority of player in WOT have 2 or less skills/perks.

 

 

Also, BIA is -the- skill to have.  It is absolutely required as the 2nd skill on nearly every tank with VERY few exceptions. 

 

I beg to differ.  I don't see the problem with spending a few pennies on this game to retrain crew to get the most out of the crew.

 

As far as your comments about camo and repair I say the same thing.  I also say the same thing about BiA.



Sask_Outrider #28 Posted Oct 08 2015 - 03:46

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View PostTazilon, on Oct 06 2015 - 20:58, said:

 

I haven't commented on the vast majority of your guides.  I disagree with the idea of doing it the "simple way" when the simple way is bad advice.  People looking to train crews for a specific tank should seek out skill advice for that specific tank as it may vary greatly from the skills one might want for a different tank.  Saying "do it this way for all tanks" hurts new players, it doesn't help them.

 

When the new skills and perks first came out I thought Mentor would be a great early skill and I wrote so in my posts - until I saw the math behind it. Then I changed my mind.   When you take a hard look at the numbers Mentor becomes much less attractive.  In order to gain a skill advantage way down the line you give up a skill now.  That is not a good trade-off as the first several skills you take provide the most benefit to your tank.   If Mentor could be a Radio Operator skill, maybe a different story, but the CO has the most good skills of any position except perhaps the driver and on many tanks doubles up with skills from other crew positions.   Mentor is a waste of a slot.

 

My opinion, to be sure.  But it was honed because of the preponderance of evidence against Mentor when the issue was hotly debated long ago when it first came out.

 

You are more than welcome to comment on any of my articles.  That is the purpose of having public forums:  ideas can be proposed and discussed in a civil manner, allowing readers to see multiple sides of issues so they can make informed decisions for themselves.  As in the case of Mentor, I have changed my mind and advice on several things because of discussion on my threads.  I have had readers point out omissions so I can add them and make a post stronger.  A good example is my post on the Myths of Scouting.  I forgot one, a reader pointed it out, so I added it.   Because of his advice, my post became even better.

 

 

 

FYI Taz

 

In my original post about crew skills (from over 1 year ago) I did not have mentor in my guide.  A player I have respect for (Rodney) and it better at this game than I am posted on the guide about mentor and I added to my guide.

 

SaskO



RenamedUser_1016493851 #29 Posted Oct 31 2015 - 03:59

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Guide is good place to start. I only recently learned about this whole move up a tier - drop & split skills mechanism. I haven't even done it yet so it helps to see how the process looks.

Tazilon #30 Posted Oct 31 2015 - 05:04

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View PostKomandor_Ken, on Oct 06 2015 - 21:52, said:

OK.  OK.  Enuf gents(?). :arta:

This thread was started for & has been of help.   It has been for many of us.  It has provided a framework to figure out productive paths + as important, how NOT is piss away too much money learning EVERYTHING from scratch.  As to many of us have had to do.  :angry:
 

If U have more than 3-4000 battles under your belt, U know WofT loves making their customers learn the hard way especially since one cannot undo any mistakes/errors w/o spending more ________(!).

At least i looked this subject up & was able to reset a bunch of less-than-best crews while WofT was running a 50% discount. ;) 

Eased the pain of "wising up" & implementing much of the above.  Plus i'm armed with a MUCH better basis/framework upon which to make future crew decisions.  Like on the 2 new vehicles i bot over the weekend(!). :child:

 

So thanks again for the thread & (some of) add-on info many of U took the time to pass on.   :great:

 

 

The problem is that you can not take a 1 size fits all approach to Crew Skills.  This guide does a disservice to huge numbers of new players who do not yet realize how it leads them astray.



Tazilon #31 Posted Oct 31 2015 - 05:10

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View PostBlitzMInc, on Oct 07 2015 - 18:25, said:

hey, I see Rodney and I hate when hes not on my team

the mentor makes a bit of sense to me, think ill try it, thx

 

 

The Commander has more important skills than any other crew position on your tank; even more so if he doubles up as a 2nd or 3rd crew role.  Mentor does literally nothing for you in the present.  If you take Mentor early on, you are passing up skills which impact your performance just to save a few battles down the long training road.  

 

Take it if you like but you are giving away potential advantage on the battlefield if you do.


Edited by Tazilon, Oct 31 2015 - 05:11.


uberdice #32 Posted Oct 31 2015 - 15:49

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View PostTazilon, on Oct 06 2015 - 12:26, said:

You can't even use one coookie cutter pattern for all the tanks in the same class.  A T71 needs different skills than a 13 90.  A Luchs needs different skills than a Pz38nA.   

 

This is a terrible example.

 

These tanks will all train camo first, then switch the commander to 6th Sense before picking damn well near the same skills from there - snap shot, smooth ride, off-road driving, repair, maybe BIA if they get that far.

 

They all have functionally identical skill progressions, because most people won't play enough games in these tanks to pick up more than two skills + a bit on each crew member.



Tazilon #33 Posted Mar 17 2016 - 03:12

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View Postuberdice, on Oct 31 2015 - 08:49, said:

 

This is a terrible example.

 

These tanks will all train camo first, then switch the commander to 6th Sense before picking damn well near the same skills from there - snap shot, smooth ride, off-road driving, repair, maybe BIA if they get that far.

 

They all have functionally identical skill progressions, because most people won't play enough games in these tanks to pick up more than two skills + a bit on each crew member.

 

 

Precisely why I picked the examples I cited.  The 2nd skill for Scouts varies based on the tank you are playing.   Promoting a cookie cutter approach to crew skils is a HUGE disservice to players.  It hurts them instead of helping them.

 

If you decide to build a crew for a tank, research THAT tank and see what you should take for IT.   You will be much happier in the end.


Edited by Tazilon, Mar 18 2016 - 14:39.


Huey_Long #34 Posted Mar 17 2016 - 07:27

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View PostTazilon, on Mar 17 2016 - 02:12, said:

 

 

Precisely why I picked the exmnaples I cited.  The 2nd skill for Scouts varies based on the tank you are playing.   Promoting a cookie cutter approach to crew skils is a HUGE disservice to players.  It hurts them instead of helping them.

 

If you decide to build a crew for a tank, research THAT tank and see what you should take for IT.   You will be much happier in the end.

Literally every crew is the same. They don't vary. You do camo. You do sixth sense. You do mobility stuff. Literally nothing else matters. Nothing is going to affect. It's a light tank. Stop playing your VK and maybe you'd know that you fake unicum.



FunkyMonkey911 #35 Posted Mar 18 2016 - 06:45

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View PostTazilon, on Oct 05 2015 - 18:14, said:

 

Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are trolling.  

 

Believe it or not Sask, long ago someone did the math on Mentor and it just isn't worth it for your early skills   For the sake of gaining a few games in training long term, you give up using useful skills in hundreds of games.  It doesn't make sense.

 

 

Mentor is a fine option but only if you have a crew of 5 or 6, maybe 4.  The more crew the better it works.



uberdice #36 Posted Mar 18 2016 - 08:55

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View PostFunkyMonkey911, on Mar 18 2016 - 15:45, said:

Mentor is a fine option but only if you have a crew of 5 or 6, maybe 4.  The more crew the better it works.

 

The opportunity cost of running Mentor is too great, and the skill is of very little benefit unless you're running a setup where you are using a 4+ skill TC to help train a tank full of fresh crew.

Tazilon #37 Posted Mar 18 2016 - 14:44

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View PostLaceylace, on Mar 17 2016 - 00:27, said:

Literally every crew is the same. They don't vary. You do camo. You do sixth sense. You do mobility stuff. Literally nothing else matters. Nothing is going to affect. It's a light tank. Stop playing your VK and maybe you'd know that you fake unicum.

 

Thus proving how little you know about Scout tanks.  Yes, you start Scouts with Camo and 6th Sense but after that it varies from tank to tank.  

 

Scout or not, every crew is NOT the same.  I have over 1,000 batties played in 7 different tanks.   I would be crazy if I built all their crews the same way because different skills are better early on for different tanks.  If you want to maxmize the effectiveness of your tanks, you should tailor each crew's skillset to the tank they are in.  Take BIA for example.  On some tanks, it makes sense to take BIA 2nd.  On others it is best taken 3rd.  On some, it makes sense to take it 4th.   If you are using a cookie cutter approach and building all your crews the same way, you are hurting yourself. 

 

Research the tank you are interested in and build that crew to maximize performance for THAT tank.


Edited by Tazilon, Mar 18 2016 - 15:20.


Tazilon #38 Posted Mar 18 2016 - 14:48

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View PostFunkyMonkey911, on Mar 17 2016 - 23:45, said:

Mentor is a fine option but only if you have a crew of 5 or 6, maybe 4.  The more crew the better it works.

 

Mentor is one of the worst options you have early on, no matter how many crew members you have.  It shouldn't be considered at all until your 5th or 6th skill at the earliest.  

 

Mentor does nothing to help you in a battle.  However, many other options for your Commander DO help you.   Choose 1 of them.   


Edited by Tazilon, Mar 18 2016 - 15:22.


Taggeth #39 Posted Mar 18 2016 - 15:28

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View PostSask_Outrider, on Oct 01 2015 - 16:29, said:

 

Well Carl

 

Nice attempt at a troll.

 

I can assert that I have given this guide a lot of thought and IMHO it is the best course of action for new players.

 

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.  Trolls aside, we all appreciate when a fellow player has something positive to contribute to the discussion.  +1 (besides the +1 I gave your post)

Frijolero #40 Posted Mar 24 2016 - 19:21

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View PostTazilon, on Mar 18 2016 - 09:44, said:

Research the tank you are interested in and build that crew to maximize performance for THAT tank.

 

This sums it all.

 

I like Sask technique to build crew skills. It is something I'm gonna have to try it out with some crew I am workin' on, but I give the reason to Taz: a one size fits all pattern does not work well on all tanks. Perhaps Sask can add Taz's comment on his guide: Even though the technique can work on every tank, it is recommended to research about the best skill build for the tank you are planning to leave the crew on to maximize results.

I mean, If that crew is the one I use to grind the tech tree they are on, then the general pattern Sask says on his guide may be the better choice. But if the crew is for a tank I plan to keep and not move to another non premium tank, then better follow Taz advice and do your homework before resetting and relearning skills & perks.

+1 to both of you :medal:






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