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Scouting 101


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DeMiko #1 Posted Jul 05 2011 - 18:50

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Overview

This guide is for scouting, note that it is not a guide on how to play lights. I cover scouting issues and not really combat issues as that's a guide for fighting :)

As a scout your job is to help your team by determining where the enemy is, where it is going and sometimes (in special situations) to help kill things.

As a scout your job is NOT to kamikaze into the first TD or Heavy you see. As a scout your job is NOT to try and solo kill the heavy and then complain that your shots keep bouncing.

This means that the very best scout is one that can STAY ALIVE while doing its job. The best scout WAITS for his artillery and TD's to be in position before scouting. I love when a scout just rushes an enemy base, dies and then freaks out that arty didn't support him, ignoring the fact that my arty was too far away to hit the base.

Who am I? Well I'm admittedly a bit of a noob to WoT and am right now spending my time with tier 3/4/5/6 scouts and tier 4/5 spgs, but I have years of experience scouting in other games including the similar Chromehounds.

Why Scout

Fun: Zipping around the map at 60+ Km/h is entertaining. Seeing explosions land near you as you zip past is also amusing.

Profit: Any time a team member damages a tank that YOU are actively spotting and they cant normally see, you get HALF the experience and silver credits. That's right, in a scout your gun is usually not amazing, but if you spot that big tank for your teams spg and they nail it, bam you get half of their loot and all you had to do was hide.

Winning: Arty needs scouts, they are often slowish and terrible in close combat. If all the teams scouts are dead, arty have to try and scout themselves and that doesn't always go well. How many matches have you seen one team be reduced to nothing but arty? How many matches have you seen end in arty v. arty? The team that usually wins is the team that still have tanks left to scout.

Hiding

There are a few great guides on hiding and I won't go into them as in depth, these are just a few notes.

You are only hidden if no one on the enemy team can see you. If even one person in radio range sees you, everyone sees you. All tanks hiding/spotting values are different and all are modified by equipment. Hiding takes 5 seconds of non-movement to kick in (except for lights)

Once you have accounted for all variables (which is impossible to do while playing) you have to realize 3 things.

1. All tanks have a distance that you become visible, even through walls.
2. All tanks have a distance that you become visible when firing (a larger radius around you than point 1)
3. All tanks (except for lights) have a distance that you become visible the second you move your hull even a tiny bit. (from what I understand this is the same as your firing visibility radius).

What we learn from this is the good scout DOES NOT SHOOT and does NOT MOVE (unless its light)when spotting adversaries. Find your hiding spot and hunker down, wait for arty and td's to take out the tank you spotted, then move.

For you to be hidden, you have to be behind something: rock, bushes, mountain etc. As long as no portion of your tank is visible, you are invisible until an enemy tank is very close to you. However, in the case of bushes you can see THROUGH them. So while a house and bush hide you, you can't spot well from behind a house.

Please keep in mind that your hiding spot only hides you from directions that can't see any part of you. If you are in a push with your butt sticking out, anyone behind you or to your side will have a perfect view, while those in front or on forward angles won't be able to see you.

Use this to your advantage, instead of hiding right in front of the heavy tank path, hide off to the side of it. If your in its path, it will eventualyl get close enough to spot you, if you are off to the side it may stay to far off as it drives by you. Many maps have bushes RIGHT ON THE ROAD and  bushes far off the road, but still within spotting distance. Which sounds the best to hide in? One ends up with you dieing the first time a heavy gets close, the other lets you gleefully laugh as an entire pack drives past while being nailed by arty.

When not to attack

You are playing a scout, possibly a light. Your tank has likely given up heavier armor and guns for mobility. This means that in a stand up fight against another tank, you are likely to be outgunned and out defended. Before you EVER attack an enemy, ask yourself "why should I do this".

Consider three scenarios:

1. You spot the enemy and stay hidden. Best case scenerio your arty/td/whatever guns it down from a distance. You receive credit for the kill and the enemy on the other side is screaming "BS HOW DID THEY SEE ME!?!?!?!". Worst case scenerio, you remain hidden and your team is alerted to the location of the enemy.

2. You spot an enemy that is weaker than you and you decide to attack! Best case, you kill it without taking a scratch, bu reveal your presence. Worst case, the arty he is spotting for picks you off before you get the kill.

3. You spot a huge enemy and your team engages it, you decide to help! Best case, you ping it for a few % of its total health and reveal yourself, congratz you get a small percent more credits/exp. Worst case, the enemy decides to one shot you while you pewpewpew.

Keep this in mind, even if you can kill the enemy tank, while you are fighting it you break cover, now the enemies know where you are and where to aim their guns. The enemy has arty and TD also, even if you think its an easy kill, you may find arty shells coming for you.

It may not be a good idea to ATTACK IF:
Your target is scarier than you
If you have a great hiding spot and arty/TD can kill your target easily
If you are outnumbered
If arty or td is sighting near you
If you don't know the answer to all these

Of course these are just guidelines.

When to attack

I only attack as a "scout" when I think dieing is worth the reward. Perhaps I have scouted 2 enemy arty that aren't facing me or perhaps I am the only line of defense and have no choice. Make your decision to attack carefully.

Be very careful about getting greedy. When you see that TD or Arty with its back to you, the first urge can be to rush and try to kill. But don't forget that good teams often guard their arty, just because you don't see a td on the hill in the bush aimed for anyone hitting arty, doesn't mean it isn't there.

Training and tips

Learn the maps! This is huge. Learn where sniping nests are, watch where your teams tds and spg's hide. Better yet, play spg and TD and pay attention to where you hide! On any map load you want to be able to look at it and say "hmm, north side spawn spgs often set up here, there and there."

Pay attention to when you spot enemies, especially people who fail to hide properly. Instead of just going "ha ha, i can see him through that bush" say "wait a minute, WHAT is he doing wrong that allows me to see him behind that bush." Paying attention to when and how you see others helps you better understand when and how they see you.

Don't just spaz out into the middle of the field of combat. yes, detection points are nice, but dieing doesn't really help your team. Instead, pull partially forward and then spot the guys running into the middle.

PLAY as SPG and TD. I learned more about how to play my scout while playing SPG than playing a scout I think. Not only do you get to see what GOOD scouts on your team do that help, you get to see what the enemy does. Around tier 3-4 it starts to be very clear when you are playing a smart foe and a dumb one. Every time you want to kill someone as an spg and can't, instead of yelling at the screen, say "ok, so if I do that in the future, i will anger enemy spg." More importantly, you get a better idea of where on maps spg's can hit. No use spotting for spg's in an area that your team can't hit with spgs.

Baiting

Talk to your SPGS, most maps have many hiding spots and good enemies know where to hide. With an spg on your side, you can sometimes coax an enemy out of hiding.

Equipment
Anything that gives increased vision range is good. The camo net is pretty good depending on how you choose to play, from what I understand it only works when not moving, even if your playing a light.

At the tier 4-6 range I typically find that I don't need repair or fire extinguishers with the scout play style. Usually if I get spotted its by something large enough to one shot me anyway.

Final thoughts

Don't die. This is true for any tank really, but people playing scouting tanks often seem to say "oh wow, look how much bigger my enemies are, I will just rush the first tank I see and hope arty does enough to help me win." A death while helping scout 1 enemy to die is nice, but staying alive and helping to kill 6 or 7 things is much nicer.

My best game to date with an arty is 7 kills and 4 damaged, I had a very good scout on my team who only fired one round, but was responsible for almost all of my kills. He spent the credits on one bullet, and got half the credit on almost 7 kills.

CaptCrusader #2 Posted Jul 05 2011 - 21:51

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Good guide.

Ill throw in a few things Ive learned while scouting.

Dont outrace your team. Getting so far ahead of your big guns will only get you killed. Stay ahead, stay alert but stay within contact distance of your advancing teammates. Knowing the capabilities of your team's tanks will go a long way as well. Knowing if you are leading a bunch of brawlers or snipers is critical.

Always have an exit strategy. Have a fall back position, or a secondary route. Often times, you will run into situations you hadnt counted on.

Be prepared to do something else. Spotting other tanks and sighting for artillery is something any tank can do. If there are a lot of tanks in one area, you will become a target quickly. Bow out, fall back, regroup and reassess the situation and see where you can make a difference. Be tactically flexible, dont get yourself stuck into the mentality that you have to do things that will get your tank shot up for no reason.

Other than that, you must teach yourself to do a few things.
Be calm under fire, no panicking allowed.
Be fearless, as most of the time you will be putting your tank on the line for a not obvious gain.
Leave any illusions of glory behind. Scouting is a thankless, deadly profession. Occasionally you will be recognized for your hard work, but mostly you will die and no one will notice. You will know when you do a good job and that is its own reward.

GL & HF!!!  :Smile-playing:

mdq636 #3 Posted Jul 06 2011 - 19:10

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Nice job on explaining the basics of scouting :Smile_honoring:

Jiri_Starrider #4 Posted Aug 25 2011 - 05:15

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Nice guide, more "scouts" need to read up on it. Out of +1's - I'll catch you tomorrow.

One point, as a scout you don't get half per se, you get exp and credits as if you did half of the damage >yourself<, which is better. So for example; when you are a tier 4 tank "damaging" a tier 8 tank, you will get more than your tier 8 teammate shooter does. Lower tiers hurting higher tiers get more, (Reverse is true, higher tiers get less for stomping lower tiers). So now you are a tier 4 tank, doing damage as if you are a tier 8, but with the lower tier to higher tier modifier  :Smile-izmena: .

Really very nice when it works. I know from looking at my stats I don't have a good scouting record, but since release I haven't been scouting as much ( :: cough :: at all :: cough cough :: ) as I did in beta. Let me tell you it is epic when you can light up the opposing team unseen and have your team annihilate them. Big bux, BIG BIG BUX.

Stealth scouting FTW. Camo crew, Camo net, Binocs and a Leo = WIN!

Oh, Radio. First upgrade after tracks and engine. Turret and gun are far less important than having the best radio.

And as highly skilled a commander (spotting) and radio operator (um, radio range I think?) as you can afford.

BunkyD #5 Posted Aug 25 2011 - 16:45

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I have recently begun scouting in earnest, now that I have what I consider a decent tank, speed & survivability-wise (Luchs). I'm still pretty awful  :huh:  I don't reveal much (other scouts are better/faster) and I have a tendency to get creamed by arty/TDs (Hey, guys, there's a- BOOM! Ah, dammit...), but I'm trying! Reading fine guides like these is helping, I hope. ;)  +1 to you sir!  :Smile_great: Any scout worth the name would do well to follow your advice. (I'm looking at you, Mr. Kamikaze Base Invader!)

Will_of_Iron #6 Posted Aug 25 2011 - 18:40

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Hey wow, I'll try this out with my Leopard later today.

ColBoots #7 Posted Aug 25 2011 - 19:11

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on a side note, I really miss Chromehounds :(, that game was amazing, stupid Sega.

Other than that, great post, I hope ALOT of the scouts will read this

Pokebreaker #8 Posted Aug 25 2011 - 19:33

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Great guide man.  Very well written.  I play an Arty when not on my Mediums, and I try to tell people in-game this very stuff.  Too often I see "scouts" just blitz down the middle of the map at the start of the match.  While it does detect alot of the enemy, it's all in the first minute, before they have got situated, so it often ends up worthless because the scout dies.  I've played with very few scouts that actually play it right, and I don't say that because I view a scout as a expendable tool for Arty, but because the whole team having battlefield awareness is very important.  I'm one to give a good scout props for good communication, and making their main mission to stay alive while scouting at the same time.  It definitely deserves kudos when done right.  Just to reiterate, your guide is right on the money.

MadCatt #9 Posted Aug 25 2011 - 20:07

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Makes me want to buy my Leo back and give it another run.  +1 to you sir.

mdq636 #10 Posted Aug 25 2011 - 20:26

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i just got my Leo back.... just for the fun http://forum.worldof...mile-izmena.gifhttp://forum.worldof...ile-playing.gif

Draxar #11 Posted Aug 25 2011 - 21:01

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To this I might add:  

  Always assume that you are constantly under observation.

  Generally if you can see him, he can see you -- and so can his buddy with the Jagdpanther who is lurking 540m away from you.  By all means, find that hard cover and keep your target lit up for your comrades with the heavy tanks and the artillery -- but figure that your target's artillery and comrades are converging on YOU.

hazywater #12 Posted Aug 25 2011 - 21:08

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Yeah the problem with 'scouting' is that it is often attributed to tier 4 light tanks, as that is all they can do in some games. Tier 4 lights are put into games where their guns cannot penetrate their opponents, the medium tanks in the match are just as fast with better armor, guns, health, radio range, and view range. The tier 4 light tanks end up scouting because they are completely disposable and if they die while scouting a much more valuable tank then its a net win.

Cruising around at 60+ km/h is fun, but since the lag patch oh so long ago, leading a fast moving tank is not an issue. Yes, de-tracking was nerfed a while back, but considering the tier of tank you will be up against and the power of their guns, try not to be upset when the first barest hint of a shot knocks off your tracks.

Next, as a scout tank you are the highest priority tank that everyone will shoot at first. This has little to do with your scouting or combat ability and everything to do with the fact that you are an easy +1 to their stats.

I know many people will say the gun on a scout doesn't matter and that they should try to stay alive. Well, these people are wrong. The majority of new maps that wargaming is putting out feature urban areas and broken up sight lines with extensive direct cover. These maps have less sniping and more ambushing. Scout tanks are best in more open areas where other tanks can benefit from the scouting (sniping). SPGs are the secondary consideration, actually because of their aim time. SPG players will act like scouts are their personal peons who should march to their death like a good pawn, but this is due to most SPG players' over inflated sense of self worth. SPGs do best when their target is distracted and focused on a direct fire, and will use cover to protect themselves from direct fire, often failing to consider the vertical cover necessary for protection from artillery. A light tank just isn't a threat, and so they will stay behind their cover and leisurely shoot the light tank.

Playstyle. You can certainly play conservative and try to maximize your lifetime. You might end up being more useful alive rather than dead (depends on how you died). Me? I prefer to live fast and die quickly. Its useful and means that I can exit the match sooner and get into a tank that wargaming hates less and puts into a decent matchmaker bracket. The most important thing that should determine YOUR playstyle is the matchmaker. If you're in a game with tier 9s, then who cares what you do? Push R a couple of times towards the enemy base and go grab something from the fridge.

Maggoty #13 Posted Aug 25 2011 - 22:14

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Some tips I picked up along the way-

1. Stay Alert, don't think that just because you're in a bush you're good. Maybe a small part of your tank is sticking out of the bush, maybe that last tank that Arty nailed got just inside detection range, or maybe an inconsiderate teammate gave your position away (by accident or maliciously). But for whatever reason suddenly you're getting nailed.

The best way I know to avoid getting nailed is three-fold,

Park with your weight in mind - small squishy tanks should park back in for a fast getaway. Anyone planning to fight should park with their best armor and deflection towards the place most likely to shoot at them.

When you have evidence of being spotted, run do not walk - Whether it's an Arty round near you, or you find a tank (any tank) lining you up, do not hesitate, put your plan B into action. Squishy tanks should retreat as far as needed to be unspotted, and fighters should make the first shot. (often you can throw their aim off)

Always know your next position - This takes all the guesswork out of running or maneuvering. Unless Arty is on you, you should run straight to that spot and continue from there. It should be cover, not concealment, and it should allow you to retreat or attack as needed. It should also if possible be in Arty Shadow.

2. There's three types of scouting, there is arty scouting, general scouting, and recon.

Recon is not something light tanks should attempt, it involves infiltrating the enemies line and making a butt of yourself in the enemies rear area. Recon is also the hardest, most thankless type of scouting, but also the one that will net your team the most gains. Not only will the enemy be constantly getting spotted for Arty and Snipers, they are trying to figure out if they should engage you or that heavy in front of them. Usually the second they hesitate to make that decision they are dead. The T-54 with it's extreme low profile and propensity for bouncing shots is a good example of the type of tank needed here. A good tip here is to find a spot that can hide you at the start of the match, but will end up behind the enemies main line. Otherwise your stuck trying to sneak past their lines during the battle.

Arty spotting is what the guide above describes, and can be the most rewarding type for the least work. As such this is where anyone who can afford the scouting gear (camo net, binocs, coated lens) should start. The best tanks for this are the smallest (easiest to hide), fastest (first into the area), most maneuverable (For getting out alive). Since these tanks aren't fighting at all, you can also take the ones with the relatively cheap repair bills.

General scouting is more along the lines of an electronic warfare or radar vehicle. You are not hiding in a bush, but neither are you behind enemy lines. The trick here is to know where the battle usually happens, as in my experience one has to show up first to claim the spots on enemy vehicles. So you have to setup in a position that allows you to see the enemy advance, but will end up behind your teams main line. If your not so worried about the spots, you can just follow you tanks out. In this type of scouting you are essentially extending the view range of your heavies. This can be done with a light tank usually associated with arty scouting, or with a medium properly equipped. This actually happens more in platoons, Your buddies have sniping tanks or TD's, so you bring a medium that can defend their flanks, and extend their view range.

You have to know which kind of scouting your going to do before the match starts, as each type requires you to get out of base as fast a start as possible.

These few things have kept me alive scouting in more matches than I care to count. And Remember a scout is public enemy number one, often you are squishy which kill counters like, and you bring the much dreaded Artillery and sniper fire which everyone hates. And they know exactly who to kill to stop it.

Scleets #14 Posted Aug 26 2011 - 20:13

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View Posthazywater, on Aug 25 2011 - 21:08, said:

If you're in a game with tier 9s, then who cares what you do? Push R a couple of times towards the enemy base and go grab something from the fridge.

I have to disagree with you here hazy (respectfully of course). I am hard pressed to figure out a scenario where suicide scouting is actually helpful. Maybe there is one but I am not smart enough to figure it out. I'm sure you have heard all the cons of suicide scouting so I won't list them here. What I will tell you is that scouts are actually hugely helpful on tier 9 battles. It is not uncommon for me to high tail it to a location that I know the enemy frequently uses on that particular map, find a nice bush and just sit there. It's fun and rewarding to just be the eyes for your team.

There are some maps that have the best scout hills as well. What I call a scout hill is a hill that I can drive up just high enough to see over it, pull a U-turn and drive right back down the same side I came up on. When I get to the top of the hill the enemy lights up, and on my way down I hear the explosions from my teams artys hitting all those reds I just found. When I get to the bottom of the hill I head right back up it and do it again. Works like a charm.

Does either types of scouting work on every map? Hell no. Do I sometimes get one shotted in the first minute of a battle? Of course I do. (that actually happens to me a lot no matter what tank I am driving).

Battles that I find myself being the most useless are ones with no artys. I do my best to just stay slightly ahead of my team and be their eyes, and every once in a while I actually pull it off. Most of the time I light up a couple of reds and then 5 seconds later I get one shotted by those reds. I need to get better at these battles.

View Posthazywater, on Aug 25 2011 - 21:08, said:

The most important thing that should determine YOUR playstyle is the matchmaker.

This statement I absolutely agree with, but probably not in the same way that you do. When MM puts me on the top of the list, I am crazy aggressive and I see if I can beat my record of kills in my M5. When I am put in a tier 9 battle I put on my scouting hat. I try to get the attention of the artys on my team so they know that I actually be helpful instead of just another suicider.

Suiciders give Tier 4 light tanks a bad name.

knaT_sdrawkcaB #15 Posted Aug 26 2011 - 20:33

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I thought the post below by MaxPWNage was an excellent guide to show scouts where to hide.  It is kind of hard to find so I wanted to add it here:

My Favorite Bushes

knaT

hazywater #16 Posted Aug 26 2011 - 20:34

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View PostScleets, on Aug 26 2011 - 20:13, said:

Suiciders give Tier 4 light tanks a bad name.


No, not really. When I play my high tier tanks, I completely understand why a leopard will die in under a minute. Once you die, you can leave the match and play another tank. The whole thing with scouting is that wargaming thinks the light tanks should do it, but at high tiers, medium tanks do it better. Sure, the lights can scout, but they're the inferior choice. So they scout not because they are good at it, but because its the only thing a light tank can do in those games. I understand if people dislike that and find quick ways to suicide.



Kornkob #17 Posted Aug 26 2011 - 20:42

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It looks like with some match ups, the best way for a hopelessly outclassed light tank to score significant points is to charge forward and spot as many as possible before getting nuked.   As opposed to spending half the game trying the sneak around an edge to a nice hide close enough to be a good spotter for arty and snipers, only to get one shotted by a high tier tank outside your visible range.  

Sometimes it looks like these guys are just playing the game as efficiently as possible.

Scleets #18 Posted Aug 26 2011 - 20:46

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View Posthazywater, on Aug 26 2011 - 20:34, said:

No, not really. When I play my high tier tanks, I completely understand why a leopard will die in under a minute. Once you die, you can leave the match and play another tank. The whole thing with scouting is that wargaming thinks the light tanks should do it, but at high tiers, medium tanks do it better. Sure, the lights can scout, but they're the inferior choice. So they scout not because they are good at it, but because its the only thing a light tank can do in those games. I understand if people dislike that and find quick ways to suicide.

That is an excellent point about mediums doing it better. From what I can tell the only thing that light tanks have an edge over mediums is acceleration, the fact that lights do not get a camo penalty while moving, and in a few cases view range. Mediums can live longer, hit harder and are just as fast.

Your other point about the Leopard I don't agree with. I often get 500-1000 exp on tier 9 battles. In the cases when I get tracked and killed in the first minute then yea, I'll jump out of the battle and drive something else. But to just give up and suicide is weak. Scouts don't shoot, they scout.

Kornkob #19 Posted Aug 26 2011 - 20:59

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View PostScleets, on Aug 26 2011 - 20:46, said:

In the cases when I get tracked and killed in the first minute then yea, I'll jump out of the battle and drive something else. But to just give up and suicide is weak. Scouts don't shoot, they scout.

I don't think we're disagreeing with that--- but just because its not something we'd do doesn't mean we can't also understand why someone else might want to do that.  

I usually play a really slow arty piece, which makes Himmel a huge waste of my time since getting angles is hard and getting to a better shoot hide takes way to long.   However, I stick it out, often acting as a TD because I get some small joy in one shotting someone who sees my square icon and thinks 'easy kill'.

Scleets #20 Posted Aug 26 2011 - 21:09

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View PostKornkob, on Aug 26 2011 - 20:59, said:

I don't think we're disagreeing with that--- but just because its not something we'd do doesn't mean we can't also understand why someone else might want to do that.  

I hear that. I understand WHY people do it. I just think it's selfish. "I know I COULD be helpful if I tried, but instead I will hinder my team by blowing myself up so I can get on to other stuff"

What you do with SPG on Himmel is just tactically smart, not selfish. I have seen SPG drivers get LOTS of kills on that map by being a sniper in the city instead of sitting back and not shooting at all.




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