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Plateauing skill levels


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SinisterMist #61 Posted Feb 02 2016 - 00:26

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View PostPlaidPony, on Feb 01 2016 - 06:18, said:

 

I wouldn't say 'elitist'. Knowing that you're doing something wrong is the first step to improvement.

 

How can someone even dark green who is better than 80% of the population be considered bad? Just because the game is easy for you doesn't mean it's an easy game. It's like me, someone who played high school hockey saying there is something wrong with you because you can't skate.

PlaidPony #62 Posted Feb 02 2016 - 12:45

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View Postianizor1000, on Feb 01 2016 - 23:26, said:

 

How can someone even dark green who is better than 80% of the population be considered bad? Just because the game is easy for you doesn't mean it's an easy game. It's like me, someone who played high school hockey saying there is something wrong with you because you can't skate.

 

If I'd played hockey 10,000 times and still couldn't skate, you'd be right. A dark green isn't necessarily a bad player but they're definitely doing a lot of stuff wrong.



Ante_Mortem #63 Posted Feb 02 2016 - 19:16

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View PostPlaidPony, on Feb 02 2016 - 12:45, said:

 

If I'd played hockey 10,000 times and still couldn't skate, you'd be right. A dark green isn't necessarily a bad player but they're definitely doing a lot of stuff wrong.

 

Only if you go on the assumption that said, dark green player is playing to maximize his stats.  Stats do not reflect high numbers of low tier matches at all.  To have purple stats and be a "good" player you have to severely limit yourself to only playing tanks you do high damage in and can regularly win games in.  If you do that it is no longer a game, but a competition; a sport that you train for, refine your skills at and compete against others.  Why anyone would focus on getting high stats is beyond me, seems like they miss out on a lot of fun. 

 

So, if, for example I quit playing my Matilda with ~500 avg damage and began to play my T44, and did only 900 avg damage, but winrate held constant my stats would reflect that I am getting "better" since my total avg winrate would go up.

So in this instance playing my Matilda well would not help me as much as playing my T44 badly.

 

Same as PZ1C, if I have ~900 avg. damage in PZ1C with a hit ratio of 50% since I am spraying enemies with machine guns all game and missing a bunch while still doing a lot of damage I will have worse stats than if I played a KV-2 with ~900 avg. damage and 80% hit ratio since I only shoot at point blank when I know I can hit.

 

So playing low to mid tier tanks really well for their tier will give me worse stats than if I played mostly high tier tanks and did poorly in them.

I have no doubt that if I wanted to I could achieve the legendary unicum purple status.  It would take a little bit of work, a lot of review on what I do wrong, practice, and gold spamming, installing mods (yes, hate to break it to you but most purple players have mods and use more than usual quantities of gold ammo) but I could do it.  However, I would miss out on having fun in the tanks I like the most.  That is a sacrifice I am willing to make.  I want to become better at the game while maintaining a firm grip on the fact that it is a game; a hobby.

 

Just remember that when you see an "average player" they aren't necessarily worse than you are.  Check the tanks they do well in, for example I have 55-60% winrate after 500+ battles in a lot of my favorite tanks, as well as two MOE on them all.  T-34, T-34-85, T-150, Matilda (albeit no stars at tier 4), KV1S, MT-25, etc.  If I had a weighted avg in favor of high tier tanks with those stats instead of mid tier I would be at least upper end of blue.


Edited by Ante_Mortem, Feb 02 2016 - 19:16.


jdubthegreat #64 Posted Feb 02 2016 - 19:44

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One thing I noticed I do is start off having a great game and doing all the right things, getting a couple kills, then becoming overconfident and getting smacked down.  It's very important to always EVALUATE, EVALUATE, EVALUATE.  After each movement you make, evaluate your position in relation to the enemy.  When I was repositioning, did I get spotted?  Then I need to be cautious as guns will probably be waiting to shoot.  Am I popping up in the same general area?  Then I need to realize that there are enemy tanks moving into shooting position on me.  And so on and so forth.

jdubthegreat #65 Posted Feb 02 2016 - 19:50

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View Postsanitation, on Jan 28 2016 - 15:17, said:

 

Why can no one ever spell bologna right? Second time I have seen this misspelled in the past day or two.

 

 

 

Also I am still learning what to do with lemming trains. Normally I will sit back while scouting that side (depends on map and tank I am in), is this what you suggest, or do you recommend rolling with the train to push it harder?

 

Actually, he was correct.  Baloney means "nonsense" and bologna is the cold cut.



PlaidPony #66 Posted Feb 02 2016 - 19:55

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View PostAnte_Mortem, on Feb 02 2016 - 18:16, said:

 

Only if you go on the assumption that said, dark green player is playing to maximize his stats.  Stats do not reflect high numbers of low tier matches at all.  To have purple stats and be a "good" player you have to severely limit yourself to only playing tanks you do high damage in and can regularly win games in.  If you do that it is no longer a game, but a competition; a sport that you train for, refine your skills at and compete against others.  Why anyone would focus on getting high stats is beyond me, seems like they miss out on a lot of fun. 

 

So, if, for example I quit playing my Matilda with ~500 avg damage and began to play my T44, and did only 900 avg damage, but winrate held constant my stats would reflect that I am getting "better" since my total avg winrate would go up.

So in this instance playing my Matilda well would not help me as much as playing my T44 badly.

 

Same as PZ1C, if I have ~900 avg. damage in PZ1C with a hit ratio of 50% since I am spraying enemies with machine guns all game and missing a bunch while still doing a lot of damage I will have worse stats than if I played a KV-2 with ~900 avg. damage and 80% hit ratio since I only shoot at point blank when I know I can hit.

 

So playing low to mid tier tanks really well for their tier will give me worse stats than if I played mostly high tier tanks and did poorly in them.

I have no doubt that if I wanted to I could achieve the legendary unicum purple status.  It would take a little bit of work, a lot of review on what I do wrong, practice, and gold spamming, installing mods (yes, hate to break it to you but most purple players have mods and use more than usual quantities of gold ammo) but I could do it.  However, I would miss out on having fun in the tanks I like the most.  That is a sacrifice I am willing to make.  I want to become better at the game while maintaining a firm grip on the fact that it is a game; a hobby.

 

Just remember that when you see an "average player" they aren't necessarily worse than you are.  Check the tanks they do well in, for example I have 55-60% winrate after 500+ battles in a lot of my favorite tanks, as well as two MOE on them all.  T-34, T-34-85, T-150, Matilda (albeit no stars at tier 4), KV1S, MT-25, etc.  If I had a weighted avg in favor of high tier tanks with those stats instead of mid tier I would be at least upper end of blue.

 

To have purple stats and be a "good" player, you have to know what you're doing and play well consistently. All the other stuff is just garbage you've picked up off the floor. The tanks you choose to play have nothing to do with why you're not purple.

PanzerWahoo #67 Posted Feb 02 2016 - 20:07

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View PostAnnieMay_SentPie, on Jan 28 2016 - 22:16, said:

 

This is a mistake that I see people make all too often.  Secure kills.  If you have a full HP IS-7 in front of you and a one shottable 13 90 that you also have a shot at, secure the easy kill on the 13 90.  When you take out a gun, that leaves less angles an enemy can shoot you from, thus you can prepare to angle for less targets.  "Kill-strealing" is not a thing.  If you can kill someone before a team mate does, do it.  There is a chance that said enemy would've squeezed in another shot into either you, or a friendly.  That ~390 damage that you could've prevented from being done could be the difference between a win and a loss.  You might have some angry team mates, but you'll have a higher win rate, so who cares?

 

One thing that took me a while to learn is

NEVER EVER TRUST YOUR TEAM MATES (unless you're platooned).

Assume that your team will let you down or leave you to die 90% of the games you play.  Make decisions based on what will maximize your damage and survival, regardless of what your team does.

 

Have to agree with the above. There's no such thing as kill stealing. Leaving a wounded, skilled player running around could dramatically affect the outcome of a game. If you've got a kill shot, take it. The only time you should be making a decision not to is if there are two or more such targets, and you're not already focused on one or the other.

 

I also agree  that you can not 'trust' your teammates. It's not trust per se, but rather understanding that unless you are platooned with someone, and really if you are in voice comms with your platoon mates, you have to assume the rest of the team is doing something completely disconnected from you. The only thing you can count on (and even this is dicey) is that your teammates will attempt to shoot the enemy. Anything beyond that is wild conjecture.



JA_Pinkerton #68 Posted Feb 02 2016 - 20:25

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Plateaus are built into how stats are calculated.  If you play 20 games a night, 1 battle is the difference between 50% WR and 55% WR.  WN8 is similar : one more shot of damage can get you from 2k WN8 to 2.2k WN8.  Concentrate on that one battle and that one shot of damage.   Try to figure out why you didn't win the battle and why that one shot eluded you.  Try to rectify the problem next time.

JA_Pinkerton #69 Posted Feb 02 2016 - 20:29

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View PostAnte_Mortem, on Feb 01 2016 - 02:21, said:

OK, to be clear I am asking for advice on becoming better at the game, not how to raise my service rating, or win rate, or anything else.

 

The 2 aren't independent.  Getting better at the game will naturally improve your stats.  

 

And yes, I know stat padding is a thing, but I assume you aren't interested in that.  What's more, stat padding can be obvious to those looking at stats (eg WR and WN8 don't match up).  Anyway the first trick to stat padding is to play well.



_Xi #70 Posted Feb 02 2016 - 21:22

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Survive. Save your tank and do damage until you can't do anything anymore. Those are the objectives. 

Ante_Mortem #71 Posted Feb 03 2016 - 08:23

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Some more good advice!

View PostPlaidPony, on Feb 02 2016 - 19:55, said:

 

To have purple stats and be a "good" player, you have to know what you're doing and play well consistently. All the other stuff is just garbage you've picked up off the floor. The tanks you choose to play have nothing to do with why you're not purple.

 

This guy really didn't read my comment though, or else he doesn't understand how stats work....PlaidPony, you were giving good advice earlier!  I started to believe what you were talking about!  Reread my comment and think about it, deeply!  I can't make it any more clear!!!!

PlaidPony #72 Posted Feb 03 2016 - 12:21

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View PostAnte_Mortem, on Feb 03 2016 - 07:23, said:

Some more good advice!

 

This guy really didn't read my comment though, or else he doesn't understand how stats work....PlaidPony, you were giving good advice earlier!  I started to believe what you were talking about!  Reread my comment and think about it, deeply!  I can't make it any more clear!!!!

 

I can read. I also know how stats like WN8 are calculated. Let's take two of the tanks you compared directly, for example. If you did 900 damage in a PzIC, and literally nothing else-- no kills, no spots, no defense points, and no wins, you'd have a WN8 of approximately 4500 for that game, deep in super unicum territory. A KV-2 that managed an identical feat would have a WN8 of 1023. Your Matilda IV and T-44 examples would yield approximately 800 WN8 each from damage alone, in the absence of other multipliers.

 

Terms like "purple" or "unicum" have absolutely nothing to do with your hit rate or whatever. At this point in time, they refer to someone who has a winrate above 60% and a WN8 above 2500 or so. Generally, people who only play low tier tanks are not called unicums because low tier tanks are very easy to do well in, but they can still produce unicum stats just fine. Your best-performing tank, for example, is the T2 Light you've played 24 times for an average WN8 of 2630.

 

Instead of assuming I'm wrong because I disagreed with you, maybe you consider that the person who gave good advice and knows what they're talking about might know about this subject as well.



SinisterMist #73 Posted Feb 03 2016 - 15:18

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^He's right^

Ante_Mortem #74 Posted Feb 03 2016 - 17:19

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OK we had to flip through a few pages but I think we're on the same one now haha!

I was talking about service rating to be clear.  I think you are talking W8 and win %.  I have 0 knowledge on how the W8 thing works except that it tracks your stats in specific tanks and compares them to other people's who play them or something, want to fill me in?


Edited by Ante_Mortem, Feb 03 2016 - 17:21.


scharnhorst310 #75 Posted Feb 03 2016 - 17:35

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View PostAnte_Mortem, on Feb 03 2016 - 16:19, said:

OK we had to flip through a few pages but I think we're on the same one now haha!

I was talking about service rating to be clear.  I think you are talking W8 and win %.  I have 0 knowledge on how the W8 thing works except that it tracks your stats in specific tanks and compares them to other people's who play them or something, want to fill me in?

 

Little something that helps me whenever i have questions:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+does+wn8+work



Hawklaser #76 Posted Feb 04 2016 - 07:33

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View PostAnte_Mortem, on Feb 02 2016 - 19:16, said:

 

Only if you go on the assumption that said, dark green player is playing to maximize his stats.  Stats do not reflect high numbers of low tier matches at all.  To have purple stats and be a "good" player you have to severely limit yourself to only playing tanks you do high damage in and can regularly win games in.  If you do that it is no longer a game, but a competition; a sport that you train for, refine your skills at and compete against others.  Why anyone would focus on getting high stats is beyond me, seems like they miss out on a lot of fun. 

 

So, if, for example I quit playing my Matilda with ~500 avg damage and began to play my T44, and did only 900 avg damage, but winrate held constant my stats would reflect that I am getting "better" since my total avg winrate would go up.

So in this instance playing my Matilda well would not help me as much as playing my T44 badly.

 

Same as PZ1C, if I have ~900 avg. damage in PZ1C with a hit ratio of 50% since I am spraying enemies with machine guns all game and missing a bunch while still doing a lot of damage I will have worse stats than if I played a KV-2 with ~900 avg. damage and 80% hit ratio since I only shoot at point blank when I know I can hit.

 

So playing low to mid tier tanks really well for their tier will give me worse stats than if I played mostly high tier tanks and did poorly in them.

I have no doubt that if I wanted to I could achieve the legendary unicum purple status.  It would take a little bit of work, a lot of review on what I do wrong, practice, and gold spamming, installing mods (yes, hate to break it to you but most purple players have mods and use more than usual quantities of gold ammo) but I could do it.  However, I would miss out on having fun in the tanks I like the most.  That is a sacrifice I am willing to make.  I want to become better at the game while maintaining a firm grip on the fact that it is a game; a hobby.

 

Just remember that when you see an "average player" they aren't necessarily worse than you are.  Check the tanks they do well in, for example I have 55-60% winrate after 500+ battles in a lot of my favorite tanks, as well as two MOE on them all.  T-34, T-34-85, T-150, Matilda (albeit no stars at tier 4), KV1S, MT-25, etc.  If I had a weighted avg in favor of high tier tanks with those stats instead of mid tier I would be at least upper end of blue.

 

View PostPlaidPony, on Feb 02 2016 - 19:55, said:

 

To have purple stats and be a "good" player, you have to know what you're doing and play well consistently. All the other stuff is just garbage you've picked up off the floor. The tanks you choose to play have nothing to do with why you're not purple.

 

I have to agree with Ante_Mortem on the tanks one plays mattering, though I do agree on good player knowing what they are doing and playing well consistently, I don't agree that purple stats automatically means someone is a good player, as it is possible to manipulate stats and some do so. Light tanks are the best example of the tank one plays mattering, and still being skill dependent. After all, consider how often the right move for a light tank is often on the riskier end, as well as also needing them to hold their fire for prolonged periods of time.

 

Also if you start looking a little further into the tank types purples play, it does not take long to see a trend of most of their games being in mediums and heavies as well. So if the tanks you play don't matter, should see a more even balance on the tank types played by purples. As that is one thing I noticed a good while ago, a majority of the blue and purple overall players that have enough games to not be considered an obvious reroll attempt, Arty and light tanks are both often at a very low percent of their total games played.






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