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Donward #1 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:10

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When he refuses to reset the cap and play responsibly as a team member.

 

We all hate the forum posts where someone complains about a bad game. We've all seen them. We've all had bad games. There are literally thousands of bad games being played across the world on WoT servers and they're nothing special.

 

But this particular match I felt was instructional since it showed how a team should overwhelm the enemy based on XVM and various prediction but lost through a series of foreseeable but ignored warnings.

 

West Coast Server. Around 11 p.m. PST on Arctic Zone. It was one of those poor MM matches where we had a pair of Tier 10 tanks, a couple Tier 9s and the rest Tier 8 cannon fodder which included the usual smattering of rental Mutz and KRs that we've come to enjoy so much. Fortunately, we had the north spawn and our Top Tier 113 was driven by a 58 percent winrate Unicum which I cannot name but who sounds familiar with a stingy sign of the zodiac in a clan full of ninjas. The enemy 113 was a 46 percenter who averaged half the damage of ours.

 

The second the match started, it was obvious our team would face trouble since our 113 went bundling north with 8 or 9 other tankers. We had 3 tanks originally go south to the southern chokepoint on the Arctic zone map. 

 

I was in a medium T44 and blocked the middle route because the enemy had a sneaky Bulldog player who looked good and since I saw 2/3's of our team go north, I wanted to make sure that I could light some enemy tanks if they were in the middle. 

 

It was readily apparent what would happen next. The three tanks that went the south route got rolled. No surprise. Anyone paying attention to the map could see it. Unfortunately our north team was still at that northern part of the map where everyone likes to camp in the Arctic zone and snipe for a bit. And this was OK, they were in a great position to flex back to base. I flexed back myself and positioned myself in that new hilly cliff area by the dragon teeth tank traps where I could spot the cap while my northern team could then snipe. I loaded HE in order to reset any cappers myself should the need arose.

 

We were down 1-3 or 1-4 at this point. Things looked bad, but we had only lost a tier 9 and a couple tier 8s and our Unicum Tier 10 was still there too.

 

And then he lost the match for us. So instead of responding to the pings on the map - not spamming mind you - pointing out the problem and asking for folks to flex back, our Tier X Unicum charged the enemy base and half the northern team went with him. 

 

This left a smattering of ash-and-trash Tier 8s which were rental Mutz and KR drivers and my T44 to guard the base while the Unicum went on a killing spree racking up damage against the enemy tier 8s who were guarding their base. 

 

The enemy blitz hit our base with about 5 or 6 tanks, including their 113 and an IS-7 who correctly pushed passed the cap in order to kill our defenders while their lower tier tanks sat three of them on our base circle capping fast. 

 

And we lost.

 

I had a terrible game. Admittedly. Most of our team did. Our Tier 8 tanks were essentially rolled up one or two at a time by a Schwerpunkt of enemy armor who attacked en masse. Our arty had a bad game since he was forced to relocate almost immediately as soon as the south chokepoint fell and was unable to contribute damage at that arty kill zone. 

 

Which brings about the lesson that just because your team has good players and should win, doesn't mean it will. Especially when the 15 individual players don't play as a team. And everyone laughs about "teamwork" in pub matches but it happens thousands of times every minute. And for whatever reason, the enemy team, even though it had inferior players, played better as a team. Whereas our team, which had better players fell one by one.

 

It's one of those observations that I make when people bray about how many kills or how much damage they do in a match which doesn't always tell the whole story. There are times in a match where a single tank can hold up a two, three, four enemy tanks for a couple minutes which buys enough time for his teammates to roll the opposite flank. A low tier light tank can get that significant spot in the match which allows your team's arty or TD to pop the enemy team's best player which can turn the entire match around. Or a player can return to base in order to reset a cap while your team is at the enemy's base capping theirs. It's those small victories, which often go unnoticed that can win, or lose, a match.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

 

[Thread locked - derailed/flame war]

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jcurz666 #2 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:11

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gg to him, 1/80th-ish to 450k dmg if he is doing it

 

 

replay or FO!


Edited by jcurz666, Feb 20 2016 - 09:12.


Tolos #3 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:13

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View Postjcurz666, on Feb 20 2016 - 08:11, said:

replay or FO!

 

I asked for a replay in another thread, I very much doubt we will get one. 

Abbathor #4 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:20

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View PostTolos, on Feb 20 2016 - 02:13, said:

 

I asked for a replay in another thread, I very much doubt we will get one. 

 

Dont worry I will get Scorp to give it to me tomorrow when I get on. He was livid (as much as any person can be in TS when you only type) after this game.

Scorpiany #5 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:30

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Ooohhh, dear lord it's you. It's actually you. You sire piss me off to levels unimaginable. You did zero damage by shooting. Not a single tank on the damn team did more than their HP in damage. In fact, only 3 tanks fired their guns even 3 times. All 11 other tanks did 0-2 shots of damage. You were one of the ones who did 0 shots. The only damage you actually did was done because an enemy tank rammed into you of all things.

 

 

 

******

 

 

I'm not saying I played perfectly, and now that I'm a bit calmer, maybe I should have gone back after blitzing north, but I didn't think that so many tanks near the base could fall apart and die so quickly despite their numerical advantage. I knew that north was in some trouble, but I really didn't think they'd fall apart so quickly that there wouldn't be time to control the southern end. I could have played better, yes. But I did not lose the battle for the team, and you cannot possibly blame me for the incompetence of 14 other players. And you come with the dense-minded assumption that I was trying to "farm damage". What's the fun in "farming damage"? I play to win, I play to carry teams to victory. That doesn't mean I'm a perfect player or I never make mistakes, but when you do 0 damage, and the rest of the team can't even do half of their HP in damage, and you try to blame me for the loss, that is what really annoys me. Especially when you try to insult me, saying I tried to "farm damage". That wasn't anywhere near my mind, what was on my mind was blitzing through south and either wrapping around the southern end of the map behind the tanks at base, or simply capping the battle out. By the time I realized that the huge number of tanks our team still had left up north quickly fell apart, and that the tanks behind me which were closer to the base decided to follow me entirely instead of having at least a couple fall back, that's when I realized I may have messed up with my decision. But at the time I made my decision to keep pushing south, all circumstances indicated that was our best bet of winning the battle.

 

[content moderated - naming and shaming]
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Edited by Scorpiany, Feb 20 2016 - 22:02.


Donward #6 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:30

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Yep. He singlehandedly lost the match. It's what happens when you put your own personal stats above that of your team. And when you don't do basic things like, return to base, reset the cap, flex to meet the enemy team and focus instead on your own personal stats.

 

Do, go ahead. Post the replay.

 

And again, I played like garbage. As admitted.

 

But it's a point to make when people post sob stories about "Carry harder they say" and "I did so much damage and my team failed me" when in many regards there is a subtler story behind that. 

 

Yes, we've all had games where we did literally everything right and couldn't do any more. But there are others where you made a mistake, in this case, right off the block. Being the top tier tank who goes north in Arctic zone when he should have gone south to the choke point. Ignoring the choke point falling while you snipe up north. Not flexing to the choke point when others on your team are pointing it out. Expecting someone else to do the less glamorous work of resetting while you glory seek and charge the enemy base in order to farm damage while your team mates die. It's a cascading chain of events and is a very helpful lesson in order to understand the anatomy of a loss.

 

It isn't always MM. It isn't always the noobs and tomatoes on your team.

 

You see this all the time in matches where tanks are playing out of position. The top tier Soviet heavy sniping from behind. Light tanks that don't place themselves where they can spot. Tanks that try to cap fast on Himmelsdorf Encounter or - everyone's favorite - the Noob Valley rush in Lakeville. 

 

There are important parts of the battlefield. And then there are parts that are meaningless. And it's understanding where they are that's key to this ever-evolving game.



Donward #7 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:31

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View Post_MakiseKurisu, on Feb 20 2016 - 00:28, said:

I'm tipsy, don't care. [edited]idiots who don't read the map annoy me to no end. Would rather have a 70 year old who can't aim straight realize base is going to be overun and hang back to defend than one of them 59%/3500wn8 damage [edited]who throw games.

 

 

 

Indeed.

jcurz666 #8 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:32

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View PostDonward, on Feb 20 2016 - 08:30, said:

Yep. He singlehandedly lost the match. It's what happens when you put your own personal stats above that of your team. And when you don't do basic things like, return to base, reset the cap, flex to meet the enemy team and focus instead on your own personal stats.

 

Do, go ahead. Post the replay.

 

And again, I played like garbage. As admitted.

 

But it's a point to make when people post sob stories about "Carry harder they say" and "I did so much damage and my team failed me" when in many regards there is a subtler story behind that. 

 

Yes, we've all had games where we did literally everything right and couldn't do any more. But there are others where you made a mistake, in this case, right off the block. Being the top tier tank who goes north in Arctic zone when he should have gone south to the choke point. Ignoring the choke point falling while you snipe up north. Not flexing to the choke point when others on your team are pointing it out. Expecting someone else to do the less glamorous work of resetting while you glory seek and charge the enemy base in order to farm damage while your team mates die. It's a cascading chain of events and is a very helpful lesson in order to understand the anatomy of a loss.

 

It isn't always MM. It isn't always the noobs and tomatoes on your team.

 

You see this all the time in matches where tanks are playing out of position. The top tier Soviet heavy sniping from behind. Light tanks that don't place themselves where they can spot. Tanks that try to cap fast on Himmelsdorf Encounter or - everyone's favorite - the Noob Valley rush in Lakeville. 

 

There are important parts of the battlefield. And then there are parts that are meaningless. And it's understanding where they are that's key to this ever-evolving game.

 

Scorpiany (11:09:36 PM) Why don't you blame the FOUR [edited]TANKS YOU DENSE MOTHER [edited] Derpward you just RIKITY REKT SON!


Edited by jcurz666, Feb 20 2016 - 09:35.


Sugoi_Tako #9 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:36

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How one does 150 damage in a T-44 is beyond me. But the complaint that Scorpiany lost the match is baffling to me. Like, this has to be a joke because I'm laughing pretty hard. I would of been livid too if that happened to me. 

Mudman24 #10 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:36

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How do you do 150 in damage and then whine about the outcome of the match?

 



Abbathor #11 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:38

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Scorp, please post the replay. I want to watch this game tomorrow and see this train wreck for my self.

N3RV3 #12 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:42

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******

 

[content moderated - non constructive/naming and shaming]
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mustangman6579 #13 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:47

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wow..just wow. 

 

This was basically a 1v15, and OP is complaining about the one guy WHO ACTUALLY DID SOMETHING. 



ukabthebest #14 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:48

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Welcome to a typical day in WoT. The fact that Donward relies on ''unicums'' to win him games is sad. Even if he did not come back to base, it only shows how much the team SUCKED at holding the other flank that it went down before the other dominant flank could be won. I might have given Donward's whining some attention had he done HIS OWN JOB in the game which he COMPLETELY FAILED to do. Sorry mate but had you played better you would have won the game. Stop relying on others. And this is coming from a player who used to be a 47% shitter and improved to a 57% shitter and looks forward to improving to 60%+ shitter. 
So get out of the first phase called DENIAL (thinking you are not bad, but YOU ARE)
Thats the first thing you need to realize to improve.

 



Tolos #15 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:50

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Guy that does 150 damage blames the guy that did 5500 damage for " singl handedly losing the battle ".

 

This right here is what is wrong with the game.



cloudwalkr #16 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:51

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It happens to the best of us scorp.  I got blamed for something like this the other day.  On my phone, so typing what happened isn't really going to happen.  Basically, babysat a west flank of 3yr olds, killed enemy team west push (4 tanks I believe) singlhandidly.  Got pinned down by invisi tanks in middle.  Watched basically 10 tanks fall apart at base doin no dmg.  My fault we lost...

 

rational of some people is amazing.  Like OP here.  Could be bothered to do anything right in the match, blames the guy who did the most.



_PoliticallyIncorrect #17 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:53

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View PostTolos, on Feb 20 2016 - 03:50, said:

Guy that does 150 damage blames the guy that did 5500 damage for " singl handedly losing the battle ".

 

This right here is what is wrong with the game.

 



Donward #18 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:56

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And what's interesting is the fact that there are individuals who will fixate on farming damage. Instead of doing the little things to win games like resetting a base.

 

This was one of the key lessons that it took in order to get better at World of Tanks. To have the humility to go back and reset the base that will be capped and to know when it will be capped before it is even capped. Which is important.

 

There are times in the mid point of the battle and towards the end where you've destroyed the enemy flank and all that is between you and the enemy flag is a handful of juicy arty and base campers. They're easy XP. The two or three of them will let you get a Top Gun award. And all you have to do is drive forward and take it.

 

But.

 

But.

 

On the opposite flank, all of your teammates have died. The map is eerily blank. There was a red mass of enemy tanks over there.

 

Well, that's someone else's job, right? Surely someone else will be able to defend that flank, they'll go back and reset the cap and me, I'll be the hero by killing more enemy tanks and farming damage. Because that's more fun, right?

 

And then three enemy tanks hop on the cap and the red timer speeds along. And everyone starts futilely clicking the map and yelling "Reset!" Reset!".

 

And no one does. Because you didn't go reset. You thought someone else would. And what would be a great reward, turns into a mediocre and disappointing performance.

 

Getting to this example, I'll point out that there is a lot of name calling. There is pointing to stats. There is the excuse that "Well, there were other tanks that could have reset".

 

But not once. Not once will you ever see the person in question admit that he failed by not going back to the cap to reset himself. And mind you. This was pointed out well into the game when the match was early and repeated throughout.

 

Who went back to reset the cap? And who went and charged the enemy base in order to farm damage. Which is the moral of the lesson.



Abbathor #19 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 09:59

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View PostDonward, on Feb 20 2016 - 02:56, said:

And what's interesting is the fact that there are individuals who will fixate on farming damage. Instead of doing the little things to win games like resetting a base.

 

This was one of the key lessons that it took in order to get better at World of Tanks. To have the humility to go back and reset the base that will be capped and to know when it will be capped before it is even capped. Which is important.

 

There are times in the mid point of the battle and towards the end where you've destroyed the enemy flank and all that is between you and the enemy flag is a handful of juicy arty and base campers. They're easy XP. The two or three of them will let you get a Top Gun award. And all you have to do is drive forward and take it.

 

But.

 

But.

 

On the opposite flank, all of your teammates have died. The map is eerily blank. There was a red mass of enemy tanks over there.

 

Well, that's someone else's job, right? Surely someone else will be able to defend that flank, they'll go back and reset the cap and me, I'll be the hero by killing more enemy tanks and farming damage. Because that's more fun, right?

 

And then three enemy tanks hop on the cap and the red timer speeds along. And everyone starts futilely clicking the map and yelling "Reset!" Reset!".

 

And no one does. Because you didn't go reset. You thought someone else would. And what would be a great reward, turns into a mediocre and disappointing performance.

 

Getting to this example, I'll point out that there is a lot of name calling. There is pointing to stats. There is the excuse that "Well, there were other tanks that could have reset".

 

But not once. Not once will you ever see the person in question admit that he failed by not going back to the cap to reset himself. And mind you. This was pointed out well into the game when the match was early and repeated throughout.

 

Who went back to reset the cap? And who went and charged the enemy base in order to farm damage. Which is the moral of the lesson.

I have to ask, do you expect one person to be all over the map at once? The team is what failed, most of them barely did a shot of damage yourself included. This game was lucky not to be a 15-0 or 15-1 roflstomp, and the only one who really stopped that was scorp



Tolos #20 Posted Feb 20 2016 - 10:00

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Maybe if you had "fixated" on farming damage a little you would have done more than 150 damage.





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