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which is a better gun for me? have problems penatrating


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blautiger #1 Posted Jul 15 2011 - 19:15

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I am having trouble penetrating the armor of the other tanks.  Which is the better gun.  

1.  7,5cm kwk 37L/24   110/110/173 penetration 43/100/38mm
2.  5 cm kwk L/60      70/70/90    penetration 67/130/25mm

Shoot at a tank at point blank several times with the 7,5cm just bounce off.  It was one of those thank that look like a tiger but not those VK tanks.  

the bigger gun have more damages but less penetration.

If I am having problems damaging other tanks which is the better gun to us? and what ammo should I use HE or armor piercing.  

I would think my best bet is to use the bigger gun with HE.  

thanks

ignafiltro #2 Posted Jul 15 2011 - 19:32

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which tank is it depends on tier

daved12 #3 Posted Jul 15 2011 - 19:32

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5 cm kwk L/60 70/70/90 penetration 67/130/25mm
more penetration  more powerfull gun
cuz if you have 7.5cm and you didn't penetrate the enemy tank
then you lose time by reload and also you may bounce again

Ironmonger69 #4 Posted Jul 15 2011 - 19:34

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You're talking the PzKpfw III, right?  I think at that tier I'd use the 7.5cm and HE exclusively.  If it was a lower tier tank, I'd take the 5.0, because it has a higher rate of fire, but the PzKpfw III will face too many well-armored enemies.

blautiger #5 Posted Jul 15 2011 - 22:07

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View PostIronmonger69, on Jul 15 2011 - 19:34, said:

You're talking the PzKpfw III, right?  I think at that tier I'd use the 7.5cm and HE exclusively.  If it was a lower tier tank, I'd take the 5.0, because it has a higher rate of fire, but the PzKpfw III will face too many well-armored enemies.


Yes it is a panzer III.  And both the 5cm and 7,5cm gun is not penetrating.  That being said.  Which one do I have a better chance of doing damages and what ammo do I us.  thanks

Eidolone #6 Posted Jul 15 2011 - 22:11

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If you're often find yourself in games as top tier or close to it, the 50mm with AP ammo will probably perform the best.  If you're more often closer to the bottom tier in games (more likely), use the 75mm and load only HE ammo.

BobX #7 Posted Jul 16 2011 - 00:10

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You seem to use "bounce" and "penetration" interchangeably.  This may be part of your problem.

The wiki, which as I understand is woefully outdated but still fairly accurate on few subjects, lists ricochet and penetration as two different mechanics. Shallow attack angles, made worse by those on sloped armor, bounce very frequently.  It may have nothing to do with your gun, but more on where your shots are hitting if you're BOUNCING (crew says "Ricochet!" or "Bounced off!") instead of failing to penetrate (crew says "that one didn't go through!" or "we didn't penetrate their armor!".

Furthermore, penetration can also be assisted by better attack angles.  A hit to the front of some mediums at 75 degrees will penetrate a lot better than a shot at their slightly thinner side at 25 degrees, etc.

saifp #8 Posted Jul 16 2011 - 00:20

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View Postblautiger, on Jul 15 2011 - 19:15, said:

I am having trouble penetrating the armor of the other tanks.  Which is the better gun.  

1.  7,5cm kwk 37L/24   110/110/173 penetration 43/100/38mm
2.  5 cm kwk L/60      70/70/90    penetration 67/130/25mm

Shoot at a tank at point blank several times with the 7,5cm just bounce off.  It was one of those thank that look like a tiger but not those VK tanks.  

the bigger gun have more damages but less penetration.

If I am having problems damaging other tanks which is the better gun to us? and what ammo should I use HE or armor piercing.  

I would think my best bet is to use the bigger gun with HE.  

thanks
Try using the 5cm it does pretty low damage but it does more penetration so i would go with it.

CaptCrusader #9 Posted Jul 16 2011 - 02:12

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Mount the 75mm and load all HE. I know its easier said than done at times, but try to get around the bigger tanks and shoot them from the sides and rear. Look at your individual tactics as well. You should be running in a pack and using small group tactics. Neither of those guns will have a very good chance of penetrating the bigger tanks frontal armor. If you can, work the bigger tanks tracks and keep them tracked. Your teammates will greatly appreciate it.

Irrik #10 Posted Jul 16 2011 - 02:27

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You definitely want the 5cm gun for the panzer III. 40mm isn't even remotely enough penetration for tier IV.

The thing about the panzer III is that it's undergunned. You have to get used to not always being matchmade with stuff you can hurt, even more so than in general, which will happen to most everyone anyways. It absolutely dominates when it's near the top of the tank list, like a tier IV max battle, but don't be afraid to just run away, when you see enemy kv's or panzer IV's: they really aren't worth your time. The KV can't be penetrated at all, even from the rear of the turret or rear of the hull, and while you can penetrate the side of a panzer IV, you can't even reliably do that at long range against an angled side. And shooting the front is hopeless. Don't even think about trying to hurt pretty much any tier VI tank.

If you find penetration really frustrating, switch tanks. Look for something with gun options 2 tiers higher than the tank tier, like the T-28, also tier IV, but mounting good options in tier V and VI guns. Or the tier V KV, which can mount a tier VII gun. It's very rare that the T-28 will be matchmade against anything it can't seriously hurt.

As for ammo selection, many people will tell you to use HE ammo. I recommend the opposite. NEVER load HE, at least in tiers I-V, unless you are facing a list of stuff that your HE rounds are likely  to penetrate, like, say, a team of mostly russian light and medium tanks backed up by a lot of open topped tank destroyers and some self propelled guns. The theory behind HE is if you can't penetrate at all, you can still do damage, but In practice, I have used a tier 3 SPG in a high tier battle, scored 13 hits, and gotten 41 exp. That's an average of 3.2 exp per hit, from a gun that does 160 damage per shot, as a tier III. The amount of damage that HE does to stuff which it cannot penetrate seems pretty much pointless, and the exp reward you get for making the shots is almost nonexistent. HE hits, both on my panzer III, my KV, and spg's, are almost never worthwhile: you are better off either just relocating and looking for something you CAN hurt, suiciding into the enemy base to save yourself some time if no such targets exist, or trying for the miracle AP penetration by aiming at the point where the turret meets the hull. You still will do almost no damage, but when you DO do damage, it will be a significant amount, and if you get the chance to switch targets to something that just entered view that you CAN penetrate, you don't have to reload to AP and miss your shot.

Even against light targets, HE is hit or miss if you have a long barreled gun: the damage increase you get is not always huge, and failing to penetrate is disastrous.

DemonicSpoon #11 Posted Jul 17 2011 - 04:12

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Quote

The wiki, which as I understand is woefully outdated but still fairly accurate on few subjects, lists ricochet and penetration as two different mechanics. Shallow attack angles, made worse by those on sloped armor, bounce very frequently. It may have nothing to do with your gun, but more on where your shots are hitting if you're BOUNCING (crew says "Ricochet!" or "Bounced off!") instead of failing to penetrate (crew says "that one didn't go through!" or "we didn't penetrate their armor!".

This is not correct. Failing to penetrate and ricocheting are the same thing. A shell hitting a piece of plate at an angle has to go through more of the plate than just the technical thickness... Hitting a plate at a 60 degree angle increases the effective armor by about double.

Millbarge #12 Posted Jul 17 2011 - 05:01

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