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PzKpfw I is wrong. Needs to be fixed and here is how.

PzKpfw I

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I_brake_for_gnomes #1 Posted Mar 01 2016 - 14:48

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Hey Guys,

I want to start going up the German light tank line starting with the PzKpfw I tank.

 

When I look at the Pz.Kpfw I grind I am noticing that all is not correct. Right away I can see that the tank guns are missing with what the tanks originally came with.

 

So here are the WOT and real world specifications for the PzKpfw I tank:

Armament:

WORLD OF TANKS SPECIFICATIONS

(stock)  2cm KwK 30        pen/dam: 23/11               ROF: 102.94        240 rounds          Clip: 10 rounds

              2cm KwK 38        pen/dam: 23/11               ROF: 117.65        240 rounds          Clip: 10 rounds

              2cm Breda(i)       pen/dam: 30/11               ROF: 123.08        240 rounds          Clip: 12 rounds

 

KNOWN ACTUAL SPECIFICATIONS

(Pz.Kpfw IA)       2 x 7.92mm MG 13 machine guns              2,250 rounds

(Pz.Kpfw IB)       2 x 7.92mm MG 13 machine guns              2,250 rounds

The 7.92mm MG 13 machine guns will eventually be replaced by 7.92mm MG 34 machine guns

 

 

(Republican Spain)          25mm French gun 1934 or 1937 on a modified turret

(Nationalist Spain)           20mm Italian Breda modello 1935 AA gun on a modified turret

-------------------------------------------------------

ARMOR:

WORLD OF TANKS SPECIFICATIONS

Hull                        Pz.Kpfw I             13/13/13

 

Turret:  (stock)     LKA 2 turret        14/13/13

                               PzKpfw I Breda 14/13/13

 

KNOWN ACTUAL SPECIFICATIONS

Pz.Kpfw IA          Hull        13/13/13              Turret    13/13/13

Pz.Kpfw IB          Hull        13/13/13              Turret    13/13/13

-------------------------------------------------------

MOBILITY:

WORLD OF TANKS SPECIFICATIONS

Engine

(stock)  Krupp M305                       60 hp     Max Speed: 40 kph        

Krupp M311                                     85 hp     Max Speed: 40 kph        

Maybach HL 38 TR                         100 hp   Max Speed: 40 kph

 

Suspension

(stock)  Pz.Kpfw I Ausf. A             Trav Speed: 36 deg/sec

              Pz.Kpfw I Ausf. B             Trav Speed: 36 deg/sec

 

KNOWN ACTUAL SPECIFICATIONS

(Pz.Kpfw IA)       Krupp M305                       60 hp     Max Speed: 37 kph         Pz.Kpfw IA engine

(Pz.Kpfw IA)       Krupp M311                       85 hp     Max Speed: 37 kph         Bulgarian modification to the Pz.Kpfw IB

(Pz.KPfw IB)       Maybach NL 38TR            100 hp   Max Speed: 37 kph         Pz.Kpfw IB engine

 

REFERENCE:

http://moderndrawings.jexiste.be/WW2Drawings/Files/1-Vehicles/Axis/1-Germany/01-lePanzers/PzKpfw1/File/1-Genesis-Production.htm

 

If it was up to me here is what I would make the Pz.Kpfw I into:

Armament:

(stock)                  2 x 7.92mm MG 13                           AP pen/dam: 23/8                           ROF: 150.00        Ammo: 260         Clip: 40

                              2 x 7.92mm MG 34*                        AP pen/dam: 33/8                           ROF: 253.52        Ammo: 260         Clip: 40

                              2cm Breda(i)*                                    AP pen/dam: 30/11                         ROF: 151.58        Ammo: 240         Clip: 12

                              25mm AC SA-L 1934*                      AP pen/dam: 50/20                         ROF: 35.29           Ammo: 124

* these stats come from different tanks in World of Tanks

                               

Armor:

Hull:                       Pz.Kpfw I                             13/13/13

 

Turret:

(stock)                  Pz.Kpfw I                             13/13/13              mounts two 7.92mm MG 13 or MG 34 machine guns

                              Pz.Kpfw I Breda                  14/13/13              mounts the rest of the guns

 

Engines:

(stock)                  Krupp M305                       60 hp                     Max Speed: 37 kph

                              Krupp M311                       85 hp                     Max Speed: 37 kph

                              Maybach NL 38TR            100 hp                   Max Speed: 37 kph

 

Suspensions:

(stock)                  Pz.Kpfw IA                          Traverse Speed:               36 degress/second

                              Pz.Kpfw IB                          Traverse Speed:               36 degrees/second

 

I know that this tank is probably not what you guys really care about since it is a Tier 2 tank but it is important to get things rights. Especially since WOT didn’t have this tank in its original configuration with two machine guns in a turret. I mean, when you look at photos of a PzKpfw I you normally see a tank with a turret with two machine guns. That's what is really missing from the tank in the game.

 

Anyway, I think my version is more balanced and should make the Pz.Kpfw I more competitive since the tank right now is not very good.

 

Thanks.

 

Please do not make your comments vulgar or stupid such as “You are a noob.” Make your arguments for or against in a thoughtful and constructive way.



WulfeHound #2 Posted Mar 01 2016 - 14:52

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8mm MG34's have terrible penetration, so the addition of the gun would make the tank worse than it already is.

Preddy_ #3 Posted Mar 01 2016 - 14:59

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Thx for the history lesson... TL;DR.    However, history decidedly takes a back seat to good gameplay in WoT.  

 

WG uses a lot of leeway when choosing guns for specific tanks in order to have better balanced gameplay.

 

So, don't be surprised when they totally disregard all the hard work you googled & pasted.



Pringworm #4 Posted Mar 01 2016 - 15:16

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Gameplay should always trump history. Its a game. There is a reason why the historical mode never got played, and it is because it was trying to do the very opposite of that.

Other than wolf packing a bunch of derp Sherman tanks to bludgeon cripple German steel monters, using real world layouts sucks for this type of game. No one wants to be the T-34-85 in a match against a Ferdinand.

Gameplay first. Always. If you brake that rule, I only expect the crappiest of games.

SourKraut13 #5 Posted Mar 01 2016 - 15:26

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View PostPringworm, on Mar 01 2016 - 09:16, said:

Gameplay should always trump history. Its a game. There is a reason why the historical mode never got played, and it is because it was trying to do the very opposite of that.

Other than wolf packing a bunch of derp Sherman tanks to bludgeon cripple German steel monters, using real world layouts sucks for this type of game. No one wants to be the T-34-85 in a match against a Ferdinand.

Gameplay first. Always. If you brake that rule, I only expect the crappiest of games.

LOL!

 

Hate to inform you but the Shermans in Historic mode had the crappy 75mm M3 gun (which they really had). There was no derping in Historic mode, so everyone wanted to play the best tank.. which was the King Tiger.



Colddawg #6 Posted Mar 01 2016 - 16:22

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I think that the 20mm option was preferred over the twin 7.92mm because of the "dual gun" mechanic not being included in WoT at present.  Sure there's the MTLS but it was a VERY early experiment and it had a lot of issues.  It's a feasible idea to put these guns in in place of the 20mm options while keeping the Breda as the elite option because the PZ I C already carries the 7.98 and a 20mm.  

5ixty5ix #7 Posted Mar 01 2016 - 16:33

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Uh....WG basically made up nearly half the tanks available. Re-working a tier 2 tank for the sake of historical accuracy if a little far fetched.

WulfeHound #8 Posted Mar 01 2016 - 17:01

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View PostColddawg, on Mar 01 2016 - 10:22, said:

I think that the 20mm option was preferred over the twin 7.92mm because of the "dual gun" mechanic not being included in WoT at present.  Sure there's the MTLS but it was a VERY early experiment and it had a lot of issues.  It's a feasible idea to put these guns in in place of the 20mm options while keeping the Breda as the elite option because the PZ I C already carries the 7.98 and a 20mm.  

Except the Pz 1c's 8mm is an AT rifle that fires a much larger cartridge (7.92x95mm)

View Post5ixty5ix, on Mar 01 2016 - 10:33, said:

Uh....WG basically made up nearly half the tanks available. Re-working a tier 2 tank for the sake of historical accuracy if a little far fetched.

 

~23% of tanks in the game are purely paper designs (That's 96 out of 421)

Pringworm #9 Posted Mar 02 2016 - 00:19

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View PostSourKraut13, on Mar 01 2016 - 14:26, said:

LOL!

 

Hate to inform you but the Shermans in Historic mode had the crappy 75mm M3 gun (which they really had). There was no derping in Historic mode, so everyone wanted to play the best tank.. which was the King Tiger.

 

oh I must be thinking of the jumbo, I just remembered one of the variant tanks got to use a derp. But that mode was still crap.

Legiondude #10 Posted Mar 02 2016 - 06:30

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You took all the time to format these module listings just to say it's missing one turret and set of guns?

I_brake_for_gnomes #11 Posted Mar 05 2016 - 00:18

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@ Legiondude. I think if you are going to present a game that people are going to spend their time (and money) playing then they should get some basic things right. Such as the correct turret and guns on an iconic tank such as the Pz I.


 

 

1) The Pz I had twin firing machine guns when it was built and used by the Germans and if the game is going to use a Pz I then they should have that in the game. It is like if they offered a Tiger tank without the 88mm gun then people are going to complain about there not being a 88 gun on the Tiger tank.


 

2) The online gaming competition is very fierce out there and so you would think that Wargamming would try to get something as well known as a Pz I tank to be technically correct.


 

Now I don't think my suggestions to fix the Pz I is going to make the tank OP or anything because it will still be an ok Tier 2 light tank. And besides, if we don't tell Wargamming about things like this then they won't fix anything.



Hellhathfury #12 Posted Mar 05 2016 - 20:54

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View PostBottom_Feeder_Alpha, on Mar 04 2016 - 15:18, said:

@ Legiondude. I think if you are going to present a game that people are going to spend their time (and money) playing then they should get some basic things right. Such as the correct turret and guns on an iconic tank such as the Pz I.


 

 

1) The Pz I had twin firing machine guns when it was built and used by the Germans and if the game is going to use a Pz I then they should have that in the game. It is like if they offered a Tiger tank without the 88mm gun then people are going to complain about there not being a 88 gun on the Tiger tank.


 

2) The online gaming competition is very fierce out there and so you would think that Wargamming would try to get something as well known as a Pz I tank to be technically correct.


 

Now I don't think my suggestions to fix the Pz I is going to make the tank OP or anything because it will still be an ok Tier 2 light tank. And besides, if we don't tell Wargamming about things like this then they won't fix anything.

It takes them months to "fix" ANYTHING in this game, and you expect them to be worried about a tier 2 LT? HAHAHAHAHAHA. No.







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