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Inside the Chieftain's Hatch" AC 1 Sentinel


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The_Chieftain #1 Posted Mar 28 2016 - 03:11

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Given the recent events... Part 1.



WulfeHound #2 Posted Mar 28 2016 - 03:16

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Excellent as always

rworden911 #3 Posted Mar 28 2016 - 03:39

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Great job Chieftain.

 

Always look forward to your videos

 

 



killswitch95 #4 Posted Mar 28 2016 - 04:10

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so when are we going to get part 2 of the T-55A? I've been waiting to see the inside of that tank for at least a good month now...

EDIT: NVM I found it... I'm so stupid... :sceptic:


Edited by killswitch95, Mar 28 2016 - 04:11.


LastoftheFallen #5 Posted Mar 28 2016 - 04:24

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Yay for blooper reels.

SaltCommando #6 Posted Mar 28 2016 - 05:28

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Guess im the only one that skips bloopers.....

Bonesaw1o1 #7 Posted Mar 28 2016 - 06:52

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Fantastic Video Nicholas, seriously you've done an amazing job talking about the Sentinel and avoiding some of the more popular misconceptions about the tank (D.P Mellor's claim about the Australian auto industry has become practically memetic within the historical writing on this tank) 

I'm just going to add a few things to clarify minor points that you touched on in the video

1. Turret, the initial Sentinel design was intended to mount the 6 pounder gun from the outset, however due to lack of available 6 pounders and no manufacturing capacity for the type it was decided to build the first run of 65 tanks with available 2 pounder guns and then switch to the 6 pounder when it was available. As far as I am aware 'A' designation stands for the 2/6 pounder gun turrets, with the 'B' type being those designed to mount the 25 pounder (which would later evolve into the AC3). So essentially you would have had the AC 1 A with 6 pounder and the AC 1 B with 25 pounder.

2.Axle housing, the axle housing generally wasn't removed for repair or assembly, the housing was bolted on internally before installation of the transmission and final drives during manufacture. The final drives were of an M3 medium type but modified to allow assembly from the side. The side plates of the axle housing unbolt and the drives can be serviced or removed that way. This is slightly more convoluted than the American type but the purpose was, like many features of the hull design, an attempt to reduce the amount of machining required to build the tanks to allow Australian industry to produce them with the least amount of machine hours required (heavy industrial machinery being scare and heavily managed by the Ministry of Munitions via the Directorate of Machine Tools and Gauges) 

3.Tracks, the steel track was based on the type used on British cruisers, a total of 11 different variations on the design were prototyped and tested before the final version was selected. The reason why the steel track was less common was because it was found to contribute to excessive wear on the rubber tyres on the bogie wheels  (Australian produced bogie wheels were known for being prone to earlier failure than american produced examples due to inferior industrial capacity), although in general steel track seems to have contributed in increased tyre wear on any bogie system as the British found roughly the same with their steel tracked Shermans. The rubber block track is 100% identical to M3/M4 type rubber tracks as this is exactly what they are, it was considered easier to import American made tracks rather than attempt local production (especially considering the steel track was in local production) 

4. Bogies, the bogies are locally produced horizontal volute spring type derived from the French Hotchkiss design (referred to in certain documents as 'Scissor' type). This design was chose as it was easier to manufacture than the Vertical spring type used on the M3, same goes for the 4 bolt mounting, the idea was to reduce the amount of machining required to construct the tanks therefore 4 large bolts requires less work than 16 smaller ones. The offset return roller was actually a feature of the first two prototype tanks E1 and E2, now some of you might be confused by this and say 'But the AC IV prototype with the 17 pounder has trailing idlers too', that is correct because that prototype was actually the E1 fitted with a new mock up turret. The trailing idler was deleted on E3 (the first production tank) and all subsequent tanks as it was found that with the trailing idlers the track would stretch  over time and under movement track slap between the main bogie body and the guide horns would occur, resulting in excessive wear

5. The little oval hatch, as per the user manual the little oval hatch is indeed an escape hatch, one on the right for the driver and one on the left for the hull gunner. For the AC 3 design the left side hatch was deleted and the driver escape hatch was moved up to the right side where the driver's vision slit was on the AC 1. I have no idea why the hatch on this example is welded shut but a bunch of modifications were made to the Sentinels under production and not all were documented extensively.

6.Engine. the engine requirement was based on the General staff specification which required specific armour thickness (initially 45mm, then 50, then 65, although the specification was written in inches) and a capacity to move at 30mph with and extended(with external fuel tank) range of 150 miles, and a number of potential engines were assayed in 1941. The combined speed  and armour requirement was something that the Army absolutely would not yield on, the AC-2 design (roughly 19-22 tonnes compared to the AC 1's 28 tonnes) was proposed with a single 200hp GM 71 diesel engine however its top speed was only around 22 mph which the Army flat our refused based on supposed experience from North Africa. The Wasp was to be designated 'Scorpion' in tank use and the high engine deck was a result of the intention to use a radial engine, hence why the AC 3 which moved away from radial engines has a less sloped engine deck. The 'cloverleaf Cadillac' setup was proposed by the AC 1's lead designer Col W D Watson of the British Army (on loan to Australia) and refined by A R Code, Australian Director of AFV Production. Code cut a deal with the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation (CAC) in August/September of 1941 to acquire Wasp/Scorpion engines from CAC for tank production. The plan was to use the cloverleaf Cadillac for the first 65 tanks (to allow production to commence) then from the 66th tank onwards switch to the Scorpion, with CAC setting aside a portion of their production for tank use and the DAFVP reimbursing the loss to aircraft production at a later date with Wasp engines purchased from America, additionally as part of this deal 3 Wasp engines were delivered to the DAFVP in October 1941 for testing. The Scorpion Engine was never fitted to a production tank as testing revealed that the critical horsepower of the wasp was considered to occur at too high an RPM and the changes to the transmission and propeller shaft were not worth it compared to the new 'Perrier Cadillac' multibank engine (used in the AC 3) designed by the DAFVP's head automotive engineer Robert Perrier. 

6. Engine part 2, the engines are numbered 1,2, 3 with 2 being the rearmost and 1-3 being the left and right forward engines. Each engine had its own radiator and battery (for a total of 3 radiators, one rear and one either side, and 3 batteries in parallel so they could be used to start other engines if one battery went flat) and was more or less its own unit that could via driver control be started independently of the other engines. Radiator fan was a 4 bladed propeller made of Queensland maple in the prototypes and an 8 bladed aluminium propeller in the production tanks. the Cloverleaf Cadillac is somewhat infamous for cooling issues in the rearmost engine but this was not a universal problem, some tanks exhibited the problem others didn't and the DAFVP never quite figured out why before production was cancelled. The Perrier Cadillac rectified this by having a common sump (dry type) and using a single frontal radiator with 2 large fans. 

Again Cheers for the video and I'm extremely keen to see the interior footage :popcorn:

The_Chieftain #8 Posted Mar 28 2016 - 07:04

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Fascinating, Bonesaw. Out of interest, what are your sources? I'm not familiar with Mr Mellor's work, incidentally.

 

I'm ahead of myself, but indeed the oval was visibly a hatch from the inside. It still has the unlocking mechanism. The cut-outs in the turret, however, have me baffled to this day.



Bonesaw1o1 #9 Posted Mar 28 2016 - 07:42

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View PostThe_Chieftain, on Mar 28 2016 - 16:04, said:

 what are your sources? I'm not familiar with Mr Mellor's work, incidentally.

 


Oh happy day, its refreshing to have someone genuinely ask 'what are your sources?' rather than just get a blank stare and a 'that's nice'  :teethhappy:

Mellor wrote one of the volumes of the 'Official histories' produced by the AWM after the war, Mellor's contribution is entitled 'the role of science and industry' and covers quite comprehensively virtually every Australian munitions project from an industrial/technical standpoint (as opposed to Butlin or Schedvin who examined it from an ecconomics and manpower perspective) and was as far as I am aware the first published work to actually discuss the Australian tank from a technical standpoint (some other works were written but remain unpublished in the Archives). Chapter 14 covers AFVs and one of Mellor's opening statements is as follows

'For a country that had not yet manufactured a motor-car—a much less difficult undertaking—this was technically a most ambitious program'

The above statement is the most notable (but is not the only example by Mellor) in that it is repeated almost verbatim by several later publications on the topic, and although Mellor is technically correct in that Australia was not 'manufacturing' cars from scratch, cars were indeed being produced locally with complex components such as the gearbox and engine (parts especially relevant to the tank) being imported. Mellor isn't wrong per say but the repetition of his statement has lead to a misapprehension about the proper capacities of Australian industry at the time. Mellor is also especially generous in his treatment of the Army who were all things considered both the single greatest supporter and administrative hindrance (maliciously so) to tank production

There are some other myths out there too but a lot of those seem to be those ephemeral source-less internet myths and your track record for avoid those has thus far in my recollection been perfect.
However I digress, here are the sources and I shall return to my hole until further discussion is required :hiding:

PS. here is a link to chapter 14 as well
https://www.awm.gov....1070361--1-.pdf
Primary sources
Australian Cruiser tank mark -1 instruction book (Provisional)

here is a digital copy if anyone is interested in reading it
http://nla.gov.au/nl...age/n6/mode/1up

National Australian Archives sources

NAA: MP730/13, 2A A) The Directorate of Armoured Fighting Vehicles

NAA: MP730/13, 2B B) Official papers

NAA: MP730/13, 4 [Armoured Fighting Vehicles]

NAA: MP730/13, 5 Armoured Fighting Vehicles Carrier

NAA: MP730/13, 6 Carriers: Individual Folders in this Item are Titled:- 1) Carrier. 1940: 2) Carrier 1941 and 1942: 3) Auto Efort: 4) Carrier V Railways: 5) Carrier NZ

NAA: MP730/13, 7 A) Australian Tank Production Report by Colonel G A Green: B) Related Documents

NAA: MP730/13, 8 Directorate of Armoured Fighting Vehicles Production Melbourne - Australia Handbook

NAA: MP730/13, 9 Pamphlets and Booklets Relating to Tanks

NAA: MP730/13, 10 Armoured Fighting Vehicles: file of newspaper cuttings and other information relating to tanks

NAA: MP730/13, 11 Photostat of report of meeting with Army on design and inspection of Armoured Fighting Vehicles

NAA: MP730/13, 13 [Winding up of Armoured Fighting Vehicles Directorate including history of Mr A R Code - subsequent to termination of his appointment]

NAA: MP730/13, 14 [Tank Production in Australia - Stages 1 and 2 (File No 1)]

NAA: MP730/13, 15 Australian Tank Programme - File No 2

NAA: MP730/13, 16 File No 3 Directorate of Armoured Fighting Vehicles Production. First half: General development of production. Second half: Difficulties with Lend Lease Mission and United State Authorities - General

NAA: MP730/13, 17 Tank Production in Australia: Stage IV. Discussions with United States and matters which led up to abandonment of tank programme

NAA: A1608, E49/1/5 Rubber and Steel Wheels for tanks and gun-carriers.
NAA: A816, 45/302/102 Production of Tank Engines.
NAA: A816, 45/302/94 Tanks Copies of Cables relating to Tanks.
NAA: A2671, 150/1940 War Cabinet Agendum - No 150/1940 and supplements 1-8 - Production orders for armoured fighting vehicles - Formation of an armoured division AIF - Provision and training of personnel - Provision of tank equipment and personnel
NAA: A2671, 62/1944 War Cabinet Agendum - No 62/1944 - Finalization of Australian tank production
NAA: A2671, 395/1942 War Cabinet Agendum - No 395/1942 - Tank and anti-tank guns


files held at Australian War memorial

AWM 74, 18 [Official History, 1939-45 War: Records of David P Mellor:] Volume 5 Chapter 14 - Armoured Fighting Vehicles - Correspondence etc (August 1952 - August 1956)
AWM 74, 35 [Official History, 1939-45 War: Records of David P Mellor:] [Correspondence with] Sir John Jensen (April 1953 - May 1958)

AWM 74, 41 [Official History, 1939-45 War: Records of David P Mellor:] [Correspondence with] Brig JW O'Brien (December 1954 - July 1957)
AWM 74, 58 [Official History, 1939-45 War: Records of David P Mellor:] Vickers Ruwolt Proprietary Limited - Review of Activities in connection with Production of Munitions (n.d.)

Secondary sources

 

Beale, Peter Fallen sentinel : Australian tanks in World War II. Big Sky Publishing, Newport, N.S.W, 2011.

Bingham, James Australian Sentinel and Matildas. Profile Pub, Windsor, [England], 1972.


Fletcher, David The great tank scandal. H.M.S.O, London, 1989.
 
Handel, Paul and Royal Australian Armoured Corps Tank Museum Dust, sand & jungle : a history of Australian armour during training and operations, 1927-1948. RAAC Memorial and Army Tank Museum, Puckapunyal, Vic, 2003.

 

Hopkins, Ronald Nicholas Lamond and Australian War Memorial Australian armour : a history of the Royal Australian Armoured Corps, 1927-1972. Australian War Memorial and Australian Government Publishing Service, Canberra, 1978.

Mellor, D. P. (David Paver) and Australian War Memorial The role of science and industry. Australian War Memorial, Canberra, 1958.

 

Ross, A. T, Australia. Department of Veterans' Affairs and Australia. Department of Industry, Science and Technology Armed & ready : the industrial development & defence of Australia, 1900-1945. Turton & Armstrong, Wahroonga, N.S.W, 1995.


Edited by Bonesaw1o1, Mar 28 2016 - 07:43.


CapturedJoe #10 Posted Mar 28 2016 - 11:04

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Called it!

Great video as always.



stalkervision #11 Posted Mar 28 2016 - 13:06

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since the chieftain mentions the Australians used captured Italians tanks, here is our excuse/chance to get some premium Italian tanks in the games before introducing a complete Italians line.

Jarms48 #12 Posted Mar 28 2016 - 15:46

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View PostThe_Chieftain, on Mar 28 2016 - 16:04, said:

The cut-outs in the turret, however, have me baffled to this day.

 

I always assumed they were crude (perhaps simplified) ventilators, for later 6-Pdr and 25-Pdr variants, to remove any fumes from the turret.

Edited by Jarms48, Mar 28 2016 - 15:47.


The_Chieftain #13 Posted Mar 28 2016 - 16:06

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View PostBonesaw1o1, on Mar 28 2016 - 06:42, said:


Oh happy day, its refreshing to have someone genuinely ask 'what are your sources?' rather than just get a blank stare and a 'that's nice'  :teethhappy:

 

 

In this case, it was more a matter of sheer curiosity. I've been spending more time than I want to reading up on the tank, and, being in the US, I've generally been confined to the operator's manual, what's on public websites, an old article in AFV News (or some such) and a copy of Fallen Sentinel I grabbed when I was in Melbourne four years ago. (Christ, have I had it that long?). Was wondering if I had missed something obvious/important. That PDF seems to have been one of them.



Bonesaw1o1 #14 Posted Mar 29 2016 - 05:41

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View PostThe_Chieftain, on Mar 29 2016 - 01:06, said:

 

In this case, it was more a matter of sheer curiosity. I've been spending more time than I want to reading up on the tank, and, being in the US, I've generally been confined to the operator's manual, what's on public websites, an old article in AFV News (or some such) and a copy of Fallen Sentinel I grabbed when I was in Melbourne four years ago. (Christ, have I had it that long?). Was wondering if I had missed something obvious/important. That PDF seems to have been one of them.


One of the biggest pains about researching the AC 1 - 4 is that the majority of published works are largely out of print and hard to find outside of specific libraries (I've spent the past 2 years trying to get a copy of Fletcher's the great tank scandal for a price lower than $300AUD). Regardless of what sources you've had to hand you've done an extremely good job in presenting the facts about the tank thus far, and for that you have my thanks and congratulations.

For anyone else interested here is a PDF of Bingham's Australian Sentinel and Matildas  which gives a very good review of the tank from a technical perspective
http://ciar.org/ttk/...nd_matildas.pdf

Additionally here is some Footage of the AC 1 E1 and E2 prototypes fitted with steel track on demonstration at the DAFVP head office, 19 Fisherman's Bend port Melbourne, on the 10th of April 1942  (E1 is the one with the mocked up turret as it was the Automotive prototype while E2 was the gunnery prototype) . Also present are Universal carrier LP2, Dingo armoured scout cars and Rover 'Mobile slit trench' armoured cars
https://www.awm.gov....lection/F07029/



Walter_Sobchak #15 Posted Mar 29 2016 - 17:15

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View PostBonesaw1o1, on Mar 28 2016 - 01:42, said:


Oh happy day, its refreshing to have someone genuinely ask 'what are your sources?' rather than just get a blank stare and a 'that's nice'  :teethhappy:

Mellor wrote one of the volumes of the 'Official histories' produced by the AWM after the war, Mellor's contribution is entitled 'the role of science and industry' and covers quite comprehensively virtually every Australian munitions project from an industrial/technical standpoint (as opposed to Butlin or Schedvin who examined it from an ecconomics and manpower perspective) and was as far as I am aware the first published work to actually discuss the Australian tank from a technical standpoint (some other works were written but remain unpublished in the Archives). Chapter 14 covers AFVs and one of Mellor's opening statements is as follows

'For a country that had not yet manufactured a motor-car—a much less difficult undertaking—this was technically a most ambitious program'

The above statement is the most notable (but is not the only example by Mellor) in that it is repeated almost verbatim by several later publications on the topic, and although Mellor is technically correct in that Australia was not 'manufacturing' cars from scratch, cars were indeed being produced locally with complex components such as the gearbox and engine (parts especially relevant to the tank) being imported. Mellor isn't wrong per say but the repetition of his statement has lead to a misapprehension about the proper capacities of Australian industry at the time. Mellor is also especially generous in his treatment of the Army who were all things considered both the single greatest supporter and administrative hindrance (maliciously so) to tank production

There are some other myths out there too but a lot of those seem to be those ephemeral source-less internet myths and your track record for avoid those has thus far in my recollection been perfect.
However I digress, here are the sources and I shall return to my hole until further discussion is required :hiding:

PS. here is a link to chapter 14 as well
https://www.awm.gov....1070361--1-.pdf
Primary sources
Australian Cruiser tank mark -1 instruction book (Provisional)

here is a digital copy if anyone is interested in reading it
http://nla.gov.au/nl...age/n6/mode/1up

National Australian Archives sources

NAA: MP730/13, 2A A) The Directorate of Armoured Fighting Vehicles

NAA: MP730/13, 2B B) Official papers

NAA: MP730/13, 4 [Armoured Fighting Vehicles]

NAA: MP730/13, 5 Armoured Fighting Vehicles Carrier

NAA: MP730/13, 6 Carriers: Individual Folders in this Item are Titled:- 1) Carrier. 1940: 2) Carrier 1941 and 1942: 3) Auto Efort: 4) Carrier V Railways: 5) Carrier NZ

NAA: MP730/13, 7 A) Australian Tank Production Report by Colonel G A Green: B) Related Documents

NAA: MP730/13, 8 Directorate of Armoured Fighting Vehicles Production Melbourne - Australia Handbook

NAA: MP730/13, 9 Pamphlets and Booklets Relating to Tanks

NAA: MP730/13, 10 Armoured Fighting Vehicles: file of newspaper cuttings and other information relating to tanks

NAA: MP730/13, 11 Photostat of report of meeting with Army on design and inspection of Armoured Fighting Vehicles

NAA: MP730/13, 13 [Winding up of Armoured Fighting Vehicles Directorate including history of Mr A R Code - subsequent to termination of his appointment]

NAA: MP730/13, 14 [Tank Production in Australia - Stages 1 and 2 (File No 1)]

NAA: MP730/13, 15 Australian Tank Programme - File No 2

NAA: MP730/13, 16 File No 3 Directorate of Armoured Fighting Vehicles Production. First half: General development of production. Second half: Difficulties with Lend Lease Mission and United State Authorities - General

NAA: MP730/13, 17 Tank Production in Australia: Stage IV. Discussions with United States and matters which led up to abandonment of tank programme

NAA: A1608, E49/1/5 Rubber and Steel Wheels for tanks and gun-carriers.
NAA: A816, 45/302/102 Production of Tank Engines.
NAA: A816, 45/302/94 Tanks Copies of Cables relating to Tanks.
NAA: A2671, 150/1940 War Cabinet Agendum - No 150/1940 and supplements 1-8 - Production orders for armoured fighting vehicles - Formation of an armoured division AIF - Provision and training of personnel - Provision of tank equipment and personnel
NAA: A2671, 62/1944 War Cabinet Agendum - No 62/1944 - Finalization of Australian tank production
NAA: A2671, 395/1942 War Cabinet Agendum - No 395/1942 - Tank and anti-tank guns


files held at Australian War memorial

AWM 74, 18 [Official History, 1939-45 War: Records of David P Mellor:] Volume 5 Chapter 14 - Armoured Fighting Vehicles - Correspondence etc (August 1952 - August 1956)
AWM 74, 35 [Official History, 1939-45 War: Records of David P Mellor:] [Correspondence with] Sir John Jensen (April 1953 - May 1958)

AWM 74, 41 [Official History, 1939-45 War: Records of David P Mellor:] [Correspondence with] Brig JW O'Brien (December 1954 - July 1957)
AWM 74, 58 [Official History, 1939-45 War: Records of David P Mellor:] Vickers Ruwolt Proprietary Limited - Review of Activities in connection with Production of Munitions (n.d.)

Secondary sources

 

Beale, Peter Fallen sentinel : Australian tanks in World War II. Big Sky Publishing, Newport, N.S.W, 2011.

Bingham, James Australian Sentinel and Matildas. Profile Pub, Windsor, [England], 1972.


Fletcher, David The great tank scandal. H.M.S.O, London, 1989.
 
Handel, Paul and Royal Australian Armoured Corps Tank Museum Dust, sand & jungle : a history of Australian armour during training and operations, 1927-1948. RAAC Memorial and Army Tank Museum, Puckapunyal, Vic, 2003.

 

Hopkins, Ronald Nicholas Lamond and Australian War Memorial Australian armour : a history of the Royal Australian Armoured Corps, 1927-1972. Australian War Memorial and Australian Government Publishing Service, Canberra, 1978.

Mellor, D. P. (David Paver) and Australian War Memorial The role of science and industry. Australian War Memorial, Canberra, 1958.

 

Ross, A. T, Australia. Department of Veterans' Affairs and Australia. Department of Industry, Science and Technology Armed & ready : the industrial development & defence of Australia, 1900-1945. Turton & Armstrong, Wahroonga, N.S.W, 1995.

good stuff!



LVtanker #16 Posted Mar 31 2016 - 07:34

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Just have to say thanks Chieftain for all the work you do for your videos.  It's awesome to see the inner (and outer) workings of so many tanks in your videos, and I have been trying to watch all of them.  Loved the line at 2:55 about the 'small' incident in France :teethhappy: ​, ranks up there with the 'significant emotional response' from the myths about American armor in WWII video.  I'm a newer player to WOT (and still trying to learn to play :confused:​), and have been trying to read up on the forums here, but I think the Chieftain's hatch section is the best part.  Nice to see so many people posting from records and information versus hearsay and 'common' knowledge.  Can't wait to see part 2 for the Sentinel.
 
 


Walter_Sobchak #17 Posted Apr 02 2016 - 15:53

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Sentinel tanks used in the film "The Rats of Tobruk"

 



stalkervision #18 Posted Apr 02 2016 - 17:30

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Probably why they lost Tobruk. :)




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