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SUCCESS!: Bring the Aufklärungspanzer Panther back as a premium.


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Poll: Aufklärungspanzer Panther as a premium (222 members have cast votes)

Would you want it as a premium?

  1. Yes (165 votes [74.32%])

    Percentage of vote: 74.32%

  2. No (42 votes [18.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.92%

  3. Undecided (15 votes [6.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.76%

If so which gun should it get?

  1. 7,5 cm KwK 41 L/58 Konisch - Normal gun for sniping (143 votes [64.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 64.41%

  2. 10,5 cm KwK 42 L/28 - Derp Gun (28 votes [12.61%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.61%

  3. Undecided (51 votes [22.97%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.97%

Bacon?

  1. Bacon (83 votes [37.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.39%

  2. Awful Panther made of Bacon (139 votes [62.61%])

    Percentage of vote: 62.61%

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_Gungrave_ #21 Posted Apr 22 2016 - 06:47

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Bump

Gunmetal_engineer #22 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 18:31

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When they Pulled the T50-2 they promised it would some day return; Yeah see where that tank is now........ [crickets in the background chirping]

 

Also the map PORT; they said they were going to rework it; same result as T-50-2

They are worried more about drifting tanks, than about keeping good tanks around, and the game more diversified (my opinion)



_Gungrave_ #23 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 21:17

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View PostGunmetal_engineer, on Apr 23 2016 - 18:31, said:

When they Pulled the T50-2 they promised it would some day return; Yeah see where that tank is now........ [crickets in the background chirping]

 

Also the map PORT; they said they were going to rework it; same result as T-50-2

They are worried more about drifting tanks, than about keeping good tanks around, and the game more diversified (my opinion)

 

Its coming back as part of the multiple hull feature which was planned for this year but seems like thats been put on the backburner. My guess is we will see the useless waste of time that is the multi-turret feature implemented before we ever get multiple hulls.

pepe_trueno #24 Posted Apr 23 2016 - 22:37

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View Postmongoosejake, on Apr 17 2016 - 20:57, said:

 

I'll take the 3cm if I can get a 50 shell clip and 120mm of AP pen and 170mm-ish APCR pen at tier 6. Sign me up for that fun filled fantasy ride!

 

90 - 100 pen should be enought, 170 apcr would be crazy strong with a 50 clip size, it will end nerfed to the ground few patchs later becouse of some gold spammer.

Edited by pepe_trueno, Apr 23 2016 - 22:42.


_Gungrave_ #25 Posted Apr 29 2016 - 04:03

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BUMP :B

Verblonde #26 Posted Apr 29 2016 - 22:03

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Unless they did something *really* stupid (like put an advertising logo on it), I'd buy a premium Awful Panther like a shot...

Edited by Verblonde, Apr 29 2016 - 22:03.


mongoosejake #27 Posted Apr 30 2016 - 03:44

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View Postpepe_trueno, on Apr 23 2016 - 16:37, said:

 

90 - 100 pen should be enought, 170 apcr would be crazy strong with a 50 clip size, it will end nerfed to the ground few patchs later becouse of some gold spammer.

 

100mm of pen on a tier 6 or 7 light that plays more medium-ish wouldn't be enough in my opinion. 120mm would be on the low side, but workable. 150-170 APCR pen might sound like a lot, but look at the APCR pen of the rest of tier 6 or 7 lights. It'd be on the lower end side, and also would be balanced by what I'd expect to be a very long reload.

 

Just for factual comparison of AP and APCR pen of other tier 6 lights:

 

-MT-25 (57mm gun)

AP pen: 112mm APCR: 189mm

 

-59-16 has the same stats with the 57mm

76mm auto-loader stats (this gun is disliked by many players because of low pen, only really good against other lights and very weak mediums or arty)

AP pen: 85mm APCR: 106mm

 

-Type 64

AP pen: 128mm APCR: 177mm

 

-AMX 12t

AP pen: 144mm APCR: 202mm (very high pen for a tier 6 light that has a auto-loader, substantially more than I was half-jokingly stating for a 3cm Auf Panther at 120/170 AP/APCR)

 

-T37

76mm single shot T91 gun

AP pen: 150mm APCR pen: 199mm

 

76mm auto-loader T102 gun

AP pen: 137mm APCR pen: 185mm (this is important to compare, if the Auf. Panther made a return using a 3cm auto-loader, the T37 mounting the auto loader would be a fair comparison)

 

-T21

AP pen: 128mm APCR pen: 177mm

 

-Vk28.01 (most people mount the 10.5 and use HE/HEAT, but for comparison's sake I'm including it with the 7.5cm L/48)

AP pen: 110mm APCR pen: 158mm

 

Now, keep in mind that these are all tier 6 lights. The Auf. Panther was a tier 7 when it was still in-game, and at that tier 170mm of standard pen or more is common (T71, Bulldog have 175mm standard while WZ-131 has 181mm and both the SP 1c and LTTB have 170mm). Only the French are considered lacking in AP pen, with the AMX 13 75 having 144mm of AP pen and 202mm of APCR, while the premium AMX 13 57 has 143mm AP and 195mm of APCR pen.

 

So, my initially half joking mention of a 3cm equipped Auf. Panther with 120mm AP/ 170mm APCR pen isn't sounding so far fetched anymore. It'd be pretty much mediocre pen for tier 6 lights (right in the middle of the pack), but the worst pen of any tier 7 light in the game, but packing insane burst damage against anything that it could pen. It'd be the Pz1c of tier 7: able to be a terror for those tanks with poor armor, but just a pest for anything with substantial armor like a Pz1c is for most tier 5's. Sounds good to me.

 



_Gungrave_ #28 Posted Apr 30 2016 - 04:36

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View PostVerblonde, on Apr 29 2016 - 22:03, said:

Unless they did something *really* stupid (like put an advertising logo on it), I'd buy a premium Awful Panther like a shot...

 

just dont play the tank while you're drunk...that likely won't end well xD

pepe_trueno #29 Posted Apr 30 2016 - 14:10

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View Postmongoosejake, on Apr 30 2016 - 03:44, said:

 

100mm of pen on a tier 6 or 7 light that plays more medium-ish wouldn't be enough in my opinion. 120mm would be on the low side, but workable. 150-170 APCR pen might sound like a lot, but look at the APCR pen of the rest of tier 6 or 7 lights. It'd be on the lower end side, and also would be balanced by what I'd expect to be a very long reload.

 

was aiming for a t6, low pen is the balance factor to the hability to dump a metric ton of damage with the large clip.

 

 penetration could be boosted to 120/140, thing is APCR by no means should be higher than 150, the last thing we need is another tank that encourage goldspam. 



_Gungrave_ #30 Posted Apr 30 2016 - 14:53

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View Postpepe_trueno, on Apr 30 2016 - 14:10, said:

was aiming for a t6, low pen is the balance factor to the hability to dump a metric ton of damage with the large clip.

 

 penetration could be boosted to 120/140, thing is APCR by no means should be higher than 150, the last thing we need is another tank that encourage goldspam. 

 

Why are so many hellbent on this thing being at tier 6 when it was fine at tier 7?

pepe_trueno #31 Posted Apr 30 2016 - 16:06

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View Post_Gungrave_, on Apr 30 2016 - 14:53, said:

 

Why are so many hellbent on this thing being at tier 6 when it was fine at tier 7?

 

becouse tiny turret + autocannon madness, t7 is with the upgraded gun.

_Gungrave_ #32 Posted Apr 30 2016 - 16:32

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View Postpepe_trueno, on Apr 30 2016 - 16:06, said:

 

becouse tiny turret + autocannon madness, t7 is with the upgraded gun.

 

If you want an autocannon go play the Pz 1 C or Luchs.



mongoosejake #33 Posted May 02 2016 - 04:11

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View Postpepe_trueno, on Apr 30 2016 - 08:10, said:

was aiming for a t6, low pen is the balance factor to the hability to dump a metric ton of damage with the large clip.

 

 penetration could be boosted to 120/140, thing is APCR by no means should be higher than 150, the last thing we need is another tank that encourage goldspam. 

 

It coming back as a tier 6 would be fine by me, but having premium APCR with only 140-150 pen would not be a good idea. A few tier 6 lights have much better pen, so 160-170 would be fair and balanced. 

 

The ability to dump a ton of damage quickly with a clip is more balanced by reload time than anything. The Bulldog's auto-loader is a great example of that, being able to one-clip any number of tier 7's or 8's but reload afterwards for a very long time.



pepe_trueno #34 Posted May 02 2016 - 13:00

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View Postmongoosejake, on May 02 2016 - 04:11, said:

The ability to dump a ton of damage quickly with a clip is more balanced by reload time than anything. The Bulldog's auto-loader is a great example of that, being able to one-clip any number of tier 7's or 8's but reload afterwards for a very long time.

 

reload or DPM as a balance factor of high burst damage gun is a big fat lie.

 

it would be true if both tanks start a reload on sight and both never pullback to cover but we all know thats not the norm, to ilustrate this lets use an example with extremes

at-15 (1450 hitpoints and 2760 dpm) vs isu 152 (1010 hitpoints and 2550 dpm)

 

now a quick look tell us the at-15 is a clear winner, i mean he has way more health aswell as higher dpm but lets see what happend when this 2 find each other, for the sake of the example both will sit still and wont retreat to cover

at-15------isu------seconds

1450-----1010-----0

700-------780-----1

700-------550-----6

700-------320-----11

dead------320-----17.5

dead--------90-----16

not only isu won but it did it by playing to AT strength, if the isu would have backed up to reload or this match would have been 2 isu vs 2 AT the fight would have been a slaughter.

 

bulldog case is not much better. he goes in, butcher a tank and disapears to reload. what are you going to do, chance him in your not so fast tank around the map while he reloads?

 

 


Edited by pepe_trueno, May 02 2016 - 13:05.


_Gungrave_ #35 Posted May 04 2016 - 08:44

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bump

mongoosejake #36 Posted May 05 2016 - 00:29

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View Postpepe_trueno, on May 02 2016 - 07:00, said:

 

reload or DPM as a balance factor of high burst damage gun is a big fat lie.

 

it would be true if both tanks start a reload on sight and both never pullback to cover but we all know thats not the norm, to ilustrate this lets use an example with extremes

at-15 (1450 hitpoints and 2760 dpm) vs isu 152 (1010 hitpoints and 2550 dpm)

 

now a quick look tell us the at-15 is a clear winner, i mean he has way more health aswell as higher dpm but lets see what happend when this 2 find each other, for the sake of the example both will sit still and wont retreat to cover

at-15------isu------seconds

1450-----1010-----0

700-------780-----1

700-------550-----6

700-------320-----11

dead------320-----17.5

dead--------90-----16

not only isu won but it did it by playing to AT strength, if the isu would have backed up to reload or this match would have been 2 isu vs 2 AT the fight would have been a slaughter.

 

bulldog case is not much better. he goes in, butcher a tank and disapears to reload. what are you going to do, chance him in your not so fast tank around the map while he reloads?

 

 

 

To start with: I fully understand the situation of burst damage vs dpm. I also understand alpha vs dpm.

 

My statement of clip reload time being a balancing factor is how Wargaming has approached in the past. You and I might both understand and agree that the Bulldog's strengths are mobility, and the ability to pounce on a lone tank and empty it's clip (I'm primarily a light and medium player, and use this tactic myself with the Bulldog, my AMX series, T71, and T49-it has the same principal with it's 152mm). Wargaming however, balances burst damage by reload mainly (followed normally by gun handling stats being worse on tanks with high potential burst damage).

 

So, like I said earlier a high clip on a 3cm equipped A. Panther would most likely get balanced by a high reload. That is what Wargaming used to "balance" the auto-loading Bulldog and the French lights, so that is the best example to go off of.

 

-On a side note: The best way to deal with a auto-loader equipped Bulldog is extremely simple... Don't get isolated. The run-in-and-unload-your-entire-clip-and-run-away tactic only works on lone tanks. A Bulldog that tries that on two tanks that are even competently played simply ends up dead, and normally only gets to deal partial damage out of its clip, or at best gets a clip off and then is killed. So: a lonely tank is a dead tank, while a tank with friends is a safe and happy tank.



Commander_Flash #37 Posted May 05 2016 - 01:49

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The awesomepanther was one of my favorite tanks before they removed it, as was the chaffee before they nerfed it to uselessness. I would pay good money to have the awesomepanther back exactly the same as it was before it was removed. It was probably one of the best anti scouts in the game. Good dispersion on the move and crazy shell velocity meant that autoaim was very useful, and I could easily ram any other light to death while only taking relatively minor damage in return. Heck, I even rammed a few high tier heavies and took a good chunk out of them. That thing was a homing missile with an excellent gun.

WG please.



XCER #38 Posted May 06 2016 - 12:18

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Sure thing and while your at it make sure they dont remove the WTE-100 or any tank eeh? wishing the worst pox ever on WG we todd did devs.

IronWolfV #39 Posted May 06 2016 - 12:24

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Glad that PoS is gone and long may it remain so.

XCER #40 Posted May 06 2016 - 14:16

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View PostTalonV, on May 06 2016 - 11:24, said:

Glad that PoS is gone and long may it remain so.

 

poor you, still learning how to kill WTE-100? its nothing special to kill a WTE-100, put aim circle on hood....click left mouse button....WTE-100 go boom......so easy even your unborn sister can do it....maybe ask your mom to hold your hand when you see a WTE-100, she will make it less scary for you.




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